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So as a European, I've been reading this site for a few months, and often, when I'm reading threads about politics or education, terms like ¨middle school¨, ¨high school¨, ¨colege¨ pop up. However, I literally have no idea what these mean.
So what I'm asking is for some kind of timeline for the schools. Additionally, if you're from a country where things are done differently, you can post the timeline too!
I'm from Holland, so I'll give an example.
EDIT: here's an image explaining it a lot better than i did, but with less context, so, tl;dr: + Show Spoiler +
(taken from EUR Psychology lecture slides)
Age:
1 to 3 : No real school, there's this thing called crèche but that's mostly for ¨safekeeping¨ the kids.
4 to 12: Basisschool, which I guess is kind of comparable to elementary school, although I'm not sure. When you're 4, you enter groep 1 (group 1), next year, you enter groep 2, and so on and so forth until you reach age 12. Additionally if you do really badly, you may have to do one year over, and if you do really well, you may get the option to skip 1 or 2 years. Which is what I personally did, when I was in groep 6, I had it really easy, so I did some tests and was allowed to skip groep 7 and go directly to 8, which is the last year of basisschool. Here's where it gets complicated.
In groep 8 (at age 12 or, in my case, 11) everybody is tested, and according to your score, you're sent to either:
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EDIT: here's and image showing the actual amount of people in each category:+ Show Spoiler +
vmbo (age 12-16): this is for the people that fall in the bottom 60% for the scores. You only get 4 years of what I guess would be called high school. After that (at age 16) you can enter your professional career or do some follow-up studies (called mbo). Those that do well during their vmbo get the option to go up to havo.
havo (age 12-17): this is for the 20~30 percent after the vmbo, they get 5 years of ¨high school¨ education, wherein they see different things than the children doing vmbo. Once they're done, hey can choose to do an HBO. Additionally if you do well, you're allowed to go to vwo.
vwo and gymnasium (age 12-18): This is for the top 10~15 percent. You get 6 years of ¨high school¨, after which you can go to university. Notice I also named gymnasium, that's the highest level of education, for the top 5 percent. It's basically the same as vwo except you're forced to learn latin and greek for 6 (or in some schools 3) years.
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Once you're done with vmbo: you get your MBO, if you do well, you can go on with an HBO, and if you do well there, you can even go to university. But this is exceedingly rare and takes extremely long. Most people just stop after their MBO and get a job.
(I think this is at age 18) Examples are: Vendor, teacher at the basisschool.
Once you're done with havo: You can do a HBO, and, same as vmbo, you can, if you do well go to uni after. If you do an HBO, examples of jobs are: Nurse, some kinds of programming and engineering.
Once you're done with vwo: Either you go to uni or you do a HBO, the vast majority of people go to university. which takes anywhere from 5 to 15 years depending on what studies you do, and if you go for a masters degree, or even a PhD. Jobs are: basically anything you want, ranging from surgeon to rocket scientist to whatever else you can imagine.
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I hope this clarifies the dutch education system a little bit, and I would be thankful if you would be so nice as to return the favor, so that we can educate each other and all get a little wiser in the process.
Have a nice day!
ps. I may have made mistakes, feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong, don't be afraid to ask questions. Also, most importantly, DO NOT turn this thread into a political debate, circlejerk, or collective hammering onto the American education system. Don't judge what you don't know.
pps. Note that no level is mandatory, if you do REALLY well at the tests when you're 12 years old, you're ALLOWED to go to vwo, but you can also go to havo or vmbo if you want.
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Here in Denmark, once we reach age ~6 we start in elementary school. (Grade 0 to 9).
After ninth grade(Normally 16 years of age) the student is able to decide whether he or she wants to also complete tenth grade, or if he or she wants to start at a gymnasium, become a carpenter, basically you can choose your career direction here.
If you choose tenth grade, you basically unlock the same possibilities, you just had 1 extra year of public school.
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Thank you very much! 
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In Australia, you have 6 years of primary school followed by 4-6 years high school after which you can either go to university or get a trade. Almost everyone goes for the full 6 years of high school because most employers prefer this even for trades. In the final two years, you can choose what subjects to study and whether you want to work towards university entrance exams of whether you would prefer to start to learn a trade and participate in work experience programs. You generally finish high school when you're 18 if you complete the full 12 years.
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So you start primary school at age 6? Interesting, I know that in Scandinavia they start out late too. This is kinda weird because, in France for example, some children go to primary as early as 3 years old.
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So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher?
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On November 10 2012 20:34 Bluedraqy wrote:
Here in Denmark, once we reach age ~6 we start in elementary school. (Grade 0 to 9).
After ninth grade(Normally 16 years of age) the student is able to decide whether he or she wants to also complete tenth grade, or if he or she wants to start at a gymnasium, become a carpenter, basically you can choose your career direction here.
If you choose tenth grade, you basically unlock the same possibilities, you just had 1 extra year of public school.
Would like to add that the Faroe Island's model is identical.
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I am curios is the U.S the only country to call first year kindergarten?
Edit:
Elemtrary school - K through 6th grade ( 7 years )
Middle school - 2 years
High school - 4 years
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On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote:
So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher?
After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^
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On November 10 2012 22:03 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote:
So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher? After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^
Around 30%ish have a HBO degree or higher, I'll try to dig up some cbs stats. I'm fairly sure a professional bachelor degree is equal to an HBO degree here, but you don't have to enter uni for getting that. Attending a hogeschool is enough. I might be wrong though.
@ Thuracine, we call it groep (or group) 1-2. It's also possible but not mandatory to attend a school before that. That school is called the peuterschool. They don't really learn anything there asides socializing with other kids.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing
age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten
age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation)
age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school
age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school
age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
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What I did in Canada was..
1 - 3 Nothing
4 Junior Kindergarten
5 Senior Kindergarten
6 Elementary School
14 High School
18 University
Some places have middle school starting in grade 6 of elementary school I think, but I didn't do that.
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On November 10 2012 22:06 Bojas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:03 Martyrc wrote:On November 10 2012 21:32 BGrael wrote:
So what is roughly the percentage of people getting a bachelor degree or higher? After some googling, I found that the answer to this is harder to find than i previously thought ^^ Around 30%ish have a HBO degree or higher, I'll try to dig up some cbs stats. I'm fairly sure a professional bachelor degree is equal to an HBO degree here, but you don't have to enter uni for getting that. Attending a hogeschool is enough. I might be wrong though. @ Thuracine, we call it groep (or group) 1-2. It's also possible but not mandatory to attend a school before that. That school is called the peuterschool. They don't really learn anything there asides socializing with other kids.
Some MBO4 degree's are equall to bachelor too.
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote:
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing
age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten
age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation)
age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school
age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school
age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years?
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In the UK we have a system that goes like this:
from 3 or 4 (I cant remember) you go to nursery
At age 5 you begin primary school (Another name for elementary school)
This is for 6 years then you go to secondary school
At secondary school you go for 6 years where you get your GCSE's but they are being replaced by something similar
After secondary school you can go to 6th form college or a career
6th form is where you get AS-levels which and A-levels. The AS-level is in the first year and the A-level is in the second
College is for more practical skills such as metal work and even more specialised such as plumbing which you can get a Btech in.
After that you can go to university. Typically only people with A-levels go to university because the Btech is seen as a "less academic" qualification. University in the UK cost around £9,000 a year (11,255 euro and $14,312). This makes it a very hard choice whether to go to university because it will put you in debt for a noticeable portion of your life.
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Sweden
1-2/3 Nothing special
2/3-5 Kindergarten
6 Preschool
7-13 Grade 1-6
13-15 Grade 7-9
All that is mandatory, when you finished Högstadiet (middle school I guess?) you have to choice to go on and study at Gymnasiet (High School)
16-18/19 Gymnasiet
At Gymnasiet you can basically study anything, but the most beneficial orientation is Science where you study more math/chemistry/physics than Social Science students.
Might be some incorrect things in what I just wrote, so if any fellow Swede disagrees, please chip in with the correct answers^_^
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On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote:
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing
age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten
age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation)
age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school
age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school
age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective.
So if I understand this right, your average USA PhD finishes at age 34?
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:21 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote:
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing
age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten
age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation)
age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school
age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school
age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. wait? Grad school + masters = 8 years?
yeah, higher education takes foreverrrr
I've got a friend chasing his doctorate now. He hasn't wasted any time between levels, and is 26 with still a few more years left 
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Sweden: correct me if I'm wrong, fellow Swedes.
(Numbers indicate the age of most children in that grade at the end of the year. In same cases, people can start a grade one year early or remain one year extra. It's exception more than rule though.)
Years 0-6: Basically daycare/kindergarten/pre-school/whatever. It's not school, you're not forced to go there, and you're not forced to learn stuff like reading, although most people do go there and most kindergartens teach the children reading. Most parents keep their children at home until around their first birthday or something like that though.
Year 6: Some elementary schools have the option for children to start at the age of six in what they call pre-school class, or 'year zero'. I think this is increasingly becoming more common.
Years 7-15: Obligatory (by the so called 'school law') elementary school. Nine years. Most often divided into three parts: Lågstadium (1-3), mellanstadium (4-6) and högstadium (7-9). Some schools only have 1-6 (so that you have to change school for the last three), and some schools do stuff like putting 6-9 together (under the same administration) and so on, but I guess that's not important.
Now, you get to choose! There are different forms of higher education, but the most common form is called gymnasium and is three years. Most people do this right after elementary school, because you're not very likely to get a job or succed at anything at all if you don't.
Years 16-18: Gymnasium: You have to choose (apply for) school, and they pick students according to grades. There are different programmes (like natural sciences, building industry and so on). Some estethical educations also have tests where you have to draw or perform a piece of music to enter. All of the programmes have a basic plan that they must follow. (Every programme have their share of Swedish, Math and so on.)
Many people consider themselves done here, and try travelling and applying for jobs.
Other people (also quite many) apply for university studies (we call it högskola, literally "high school"). There's no restrictions on how old you should be when applying and they accept people according (most often) to (gymnasium) grades. This kind of higher education is free and if you apply for it, you can get a small sum every month from, yeah, basically from the government. Most programmes are supposed to be about three or five years (or longer), although you can finish it faster or slower if you want to. Many universities follow the 3 years bachelor's + 2 years master's model. There are also 'Yrkeshögskola' (profession university) that aren't real universities and give you an education in carpenting or whatever.
One thing that is subject of much debate in Sweden is whether private companies should be allowed to own, run and manage schools or not. At the moment, we have a right-wing government and companies are allowed to do that.
I myself went to kindergarten, and then to public school for nine years and then to the NV (natural sciences) programme for three years. I did not take a year of for travel and work and I am currently studying physics at university level.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On November 10 2012 22:25 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 22:13 Dienosore wrote:
In USA, it goes like this:
age 1-3: nothing
age 4: Preschool (not mandatory), or you can test into early kindergarten
age 5: Kindergarten (not always mandatory, depends on state legislation)
age 6-11: 1st grade - 6 grade, aka elementary school
age 12-13: 7th grade - 8th grade, aka middle school
age 14-17: 9th grade - 12th grade, aka high school
Kids are tested every three years. If they do well or poorly, then they can skip a grade or be held back, depending on teacher evaluation. Once you turn 16, however, you can elect to not finish high school and drop out of the school system entirely. (a surprisingly high number do this, something like 8% of all high school students)
After high school, about 60% of kids join the general workforce doing whatever. The other 40% go on to college (university) where they will spend the next four years getting their bachelors degree in whatever subject they want. After that, they can continue their education in graduate school (another 4 years), and then even further for their masters degree (another 4 years), and then EVEN FURTHER for their doctorate (another 4 years).
College is open for everyone as long as you have the money to pay tuition. Grad school and beyond is rather selective. So if I understand this right, your average USA PhD finishes at age 34?
There seem to be two groups in graduate school based on what I have observed. The nuts who work straight through to get the PhD, and those who come back to get a PhD after working for a few years. Most in the first group are between 26-30 years old. The older group consists primarily of people in their 30's and up to the early 40's.
It's hard to say specifically, because you can always take bigger course loads to finish earlier, or you can slack off and take classes part time while you work or something.
@neptunusfisk and Sweden: Must be nice getting free higher education from the government
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/2qdn6ew.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gqVrH.png?1)
