EPTIn fact, guy #5's time loop acts as insurance for guy #4: unless guy #5 manages to win, any scenario in which guy #4 died in those 3 days will be rewound on the next loop, and because guy #4's first question is "What did I learn in the last time loop?" he will be able to avoid whatever death he suffered during the last loop.
who would win? - Page 11
| Forum Index > General Forum |
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
In fact, guy #5's time loop acts as insurance for guy #4: unless guy #5 manages to win, any scenario in which guy #4 died in those 3 days will be rewound on the next loop, and because guy #4's first question is "What did I learn in the last time loop?" he will be able to avoid whatever death he suffered during the last loop. | ||
|
Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:30 Cirqueenflex wrote: so in my opinion it comes down to if N°5 can figure out how to kill everyone else in 3 days, having 12k tries to figure it out. He basically has to do it on the first 3 days, as someone could bunker in (N°4 winning lottery multiple times, buying private highest security), and become unkillable, even in 3 days. There is no correct question that can keep N°4 perfectly safe from everything, there is a loophole in every single one. You should read this thread. GHG can not learn anything from omni guy because the answer to "how do i kill GHG today" changes from day to day depending on how GHG chooses to adapt to the actions of the previous day. Thus rendering his "advantage" useless. E: The question "how to kill GHG without being caught" will not give you a detailed plan without flaw, but instead it will tell you "stab him before he stabs you" or similar stuff as the correct answer. Which does not help at all. so you are assuming he will get a useless answer, because you don't like him? Doubleedit: So the answer to "What will be next lotterys winning numbers?" will be: The ones that the winner chose. | ||
|
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:34 TheYango wrote: The thing is, guy #4 will NOT ask the same questions in each time loop. Only his 1st question will be the same: "What did I learn in the last time loop?" Because the answer to this will be different every time, this allows guy #4 to a) persist knowledge between time loops, b) ask different questions in each loop. In fact, guy #5's time loop acts as insurance for guy #4: unless guy #5 manages to win, any scenario in which guy #4 died in those 3 days will be rewound on the next loop, and because guy #4's first question is "What did I learn in the last time loop?" he will be able to avoid whatever death he suffered during the last loop. How does he know that he's in a loop? | ||
|
Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:35 Hryul wrote: You should read this thread. GHG can not learn anything from omni guy because the answer to "how do i kill GHG today" changes from day to day depending on how GHG chooses to adapt to the actions of the previous day. Thus rendering his "advantage" useless. E: so you are assuming he will get a useless answer, because you don't like him? Doubleedit: So the answer to "What will be next lotterys winning numbers?" will be: The ones that the winner chose. The answer Omni receives does (may) change what Omni does on a given day, but HOW MUCH does it change? Enough that GHG can't figure out Omni's method of thinking, how he processes information and learn to anticipate what Omni might do? Omni still starts each day in the same location. There are supposed to be clues to follow if you're looking, so I can't see Omni perpetually evading GHG regardless of the question/answer. | ||
|
FeUerFlieGe
United States1193 Posts
| ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:40 Hopeless1der wrote: How does he know that he's in a loop? OP stated that all participants know each other's superpowers. Of course he knows #5's power results in time looping. | ||
|
padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On October 03 2012 04:53 Hopeless1der wrote: GHG doesn't necesarily have to relive the FIRST 3-days. He picks and chooses when that 3-day period starts. However, I believe his best course of action is to activate GH immediately. Ultimately, I think this comes down to Omni vs GHG, as Omni is the only person able to realistically avoid GHG. GHG spends 20-40 years learning the identities of each of the other 4 players. He doesn't need to kill them, just learn who they are, what they do etc. etc. - Killing them doesn't help until he can kill ALL of them within the 3 days. I expect GHG to learn how the DN works. This is his best chance to get Omni, as he's likely to learn Omni's identity. Omni not only has to survive, he has to EVADE the GHG each day, or he's subject to death by the DN. As for GHG getting the DN...he learns how to steal a fighter jet, smokes DN guy, steals the DN and kills everyone else using the DN. GG! (He has 100 years, I'm sure he'll figure out everyone's identity at some point, probably by baiting himself on the 3rd day a bunch of times) This game comes down to whether or not Omni can evade GHG indefinitely. I don't think he can, and GHG will be able to succeed within the 3-day sequence, instantly becoming a god and ending his loop. Agree on GHG part, but I feel Omni isnt as strong if he doesnt ask the right questions. Everything is reset after three days if GHG plays it right, so Omni really only gets 3 questions, and itll come down to whether he ask the right 3 questions in order to beat GHG. Your DN part is just fucked up however. if GHG baits wrongly on the third day, the DN guy can just kill him without GHG ever really knowing, and once he does figure out DN's power, theres no saying DN guy will actually reveal himself or anything, making DN guy effectively the hardest target to kill. Personally I feel that the "During the first year, each of them leaves behind traces of themselves if someone was to look for them" part doesnt really apply to DN guy if he actually knows the comic lol. He'll definetely play it smart, and itll just be a bunch of random killings that can really just relate to anything/ | ||
|
rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:26 N.geNuity wrote: I think that the other players can anticipate this though upon the start of the game, as well as it not being super plausable. I don't think you'd be able to find a reasonable picture for every general/colonel in charge of military operations on the internet; just getting the President of the United States and say 20 high ranking military generals wouldn't be enough to get the ball rolling immediately on a manhunt. Snagging top people at the FBI, etc leads to same outcome in my eyes. Other observers are going to wonder what the hell is going on. Plus people are going to wonder "what the fuck is going on" certainly within 5 hours of this happening. And if anyone survives for 23 days then you better fucking believe "normal" people in the world will wonder what the hell is going on (since the people you control start to die, if you even had a plausable scenario to make things discrete that didn't just cause a massive international uproar, like having the US nuke japan to try to kill off the person located in japan). For instance, teleport guy can teleport to a random location everyday for the first 30 days, each time returning for just mere seconds to the location he had to originally teleport from. Since there really isn't any motivation for teleport guy to do anything else (unless he is worried about the omniscient guy) how can they anticipate this? also, once you get the first wave of mind controlled people, they can help you with the photos and names of other people. you can get like 20-30 people an hour, you can get at least a team to search for someone. also your intel team will grow everyday, like 400 people everyday... also, how will the other guys know that there is a lot of people looking for them? also, what can they do? and if "they all leave signs that would be noticeable if someone were to look for them".... is enough that even the teleport guy can find the others eventually, 400+ people looking for someone are going to find them in like 2-3 days. | ||
|
henkel
Netherlands146 Posts
EDIT: sorry been brought up. If i remember correctly in the series death note guy can let other people wright names to. He could make make the US president for example, right down names all day with the wording he chooses. growth of controlled group would increase unimaginable fast. Hell he could even take some well connected news network bosses to announce the existence of the others.And if he can identify one of the others he kinda has his power to for those days. Was wondering, if Death note guy can identify GHD guy and order him to do shit, does the that apply to the loop as wel? although nothing beats the global apocalypse plan. | ||
|
JKM
Denmark419 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:30 Cirqueenflex wrote: The question "how to kill GHG without being caught" will not give you a detailed plan without flaw, but instead it will tell you "stab him before he stabs you" or similar stuff as the correct answer. Which does not help at all. He got one years worth of training in how to phrase his questions properly. I am certain he would have experimented with his powers learn how to phrase his questions. If he didn't do something along those lines he is dead meat. This is also here our problem lies in assessing his true chances, since we don't know how aware he himself is of the flaw + how to circumvent it. Thinking about it, I think the safest strategy for Omni guy is to start day 1 by learning how to remove "all" traces of him having powers (especially online). This is necessary because otherwise he risks DeathNote guy tracing him over the internet (killing all lottery winners during the training year) and GroundHog Guy activating GHD on day 1 to maximize his chances of winning. 12000 days is enough to find someone if you have a trail (especially online trail), but not if you don't have a trail to follow. If he is able to remove "all" traces he can take a more lean approach to winning. Personally I think it would be worth it to take a small gamble and use the 2nd day question to ask what did I learn during the last GHD loop. This would lead to a couple of different scenarios (to list a few): 1. You learn that GHG activated his power + including what you asked on day 3 in the last loop. Keep asking new questions on day 3 to learn all and anything about guy 1-3 + 5. 2. You learn that GHG didn't activate his power and should prioritize killing him (unless if deathnote guy is making big waves by swaying presidents and stuff, after all I doubt you could remove your trail 100% even when guided by omnibus!). 3. You learn that GHG activated his powers and you died, giving you a chance to avoid this death. 4. You learn that GHG activated his powers and you died from DeathNote guy snuffing your information, QQ. | ||
|
AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
Guy 2 is dead meat. His abilities are far too limited in terms of application and amount of uses to be useful, at least when compared to the other guys who all are capable of winning a fight much faster and doing so more often over a period of time. Unless, of course, Guy 2 can just teleport to his targets, despite not knowing their location or exact appearance. Then he would be drastically weakened, though. Easy mark. Either way, Guy 2 is NOT favored. His only chance in the 3 day time loop to grab victory will be for a huge freaking free-for-all to happen, with that OP aforementioned "teleport to the targets" ability, which is very unlikely. Even more unlikely is him and Guy 5 being the last survivors, with him winning the duel. Guy 3 is also in deep shit. His ability takes a rather large amount of time to activate. Unless he can act without being spotted, he's dead. So, Guy 3 is not well off. He can win it, but others are stronger. Personally, I would rather take a gun than take what he has. His method might prevent you from being caught, but gods don't need to worry about cops. If it is possible to order his first victim die in combat against all the others, thus allowing Guy 3 to learn their faces, he should be pretty favored, but that's unlikely, and, of course, he still has to learn their names. Guy 1 is like the Russian roulette of the group. Every 3 day "cycle" that Guy 5 creates, Guy 1 has a 5 hour window to win everything or at least do insurmountable damage. The odds may not favor him, but he has a lot of tries and a small chance each time, so he's perhaps the biggest one to worry about(key word being worry. He isn't favored, but he IS something that's going to make people nervous each and every round), unless he makes some conservative decisions about when to use his power (i.e. save it for when he needs it, or decides to use it 4 days later or some shit). Guy 4 and Guy 5 are the biggest guys to beat. For Guy 4, EVERYTHING depends on what his 3 questions are going to be. He's going to make it or break it with those questions. The only real threat is if he dies too early on during every time loop. Guy 5 is the favorite. He has so many "tries", he's going to be almost impossible to beat, unless he dies extremely early on. Even worse, he learns from every encounter, gaining the most vital resource in this battle: intelligence. Of course, I'm approaching it from a standpoint of calculating the "odds". It is possible someone other than Guy 4 or 5 to win, but they are the heavy favorites. | ||
|
Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:48 FeUerFlieGe wrote: Guy 4. Tell the world about his power and prove it is real. Then the US will take him in to force him to find the answer to their questions. He says he will obey them so long as the CIA find and kill the other 4 and bring him the bodies. With a world Super power at his heels, nothing can stop him. And then Death note guy obliterates him. Edit: GHG should just find a creative way to kill everyone in the world. I mean, it's pretty easy to go everywhere in five days, you could probs find a way to carpet the world with nukes. | ||
|
Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
| ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:55 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: For Guy 4, EVERYTHING depends on what his 3 questions are going to be. He's going to make it or break it with those questions. The only real threat is if he dies too early on during every time loop. Guy 5 is the favorite. He has so many "tries", he's going to be almost impossible to beat, unless he dies extremely early on. Even worse, he learns from every encounter, gaining the most vital resource in this battle: intelligence. You haven't been following the discussion. So long as Guy 4's first question is "What did I learn during the last time loop?", he can hold onto knowledge on successive loops because the voice will answer that question (it's not a how or why question and it has an objective definitive answer, so there are no loopholes that the omniscient voice can game him out of). He then uses his day 2 and 3 questions on each loop to learn new things. He gets ~25000 questions over Guy 5's successive loops--that's well more than enough to evade Guy 5 in each cycle until Guy 5 is out of retries, at which point he uses his accumulated knowledge/asks the omniscient voice how to kill Guy 5. On October 03 2012 05:55 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Guy 1 is like the Russian roulette of the group. Every 3 day "cycle" that Guy 5 creates, Guy 1 has a 5 hour window to win everything or at least do insurmountable damage. The odds may not favor him, but he has a lot of tries and a small chance each time, so he's perhaps the biggest one to worry about(key word being worry. He isn't favored, but he IS something that's going to make people nervous each and every round), unless he makes some conservative decisions about when to use his power (i.e. save it for when he needs it, or decides to use it 4 days later or some shit). Actually, only the last cycle matters. Any cycle in which Guy 5 dies is instantly reset, so the only way to do "lasting" damage is for it to happen on or after the last cycle. You can essentially simplify Guy 5's superpower to "he gets 100 years worth of planning and research". But through Guy 4 taking advantage of the time looping in Guy 5's superpower, Guy 4 gets 100 years worth of planning, AND the omniscient answer to ~25000 questions IN ADDITION to that. | ||
|
HaRuHi
1220 Posts
| ||
|
Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
| ||
|
N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:52 rpgalon wrote: how can they anticipate this? also, once you get the first wave of mind controlled people, they can help you with the photos and names of other people. you can get like 20-30 people an hour, you can get at least a team to search for someone. also your intel team will grow everyday, like 400 people everyday... also, how will the other guys know that there is a lot of people looking for them? also, what can they do? and if "they all leave signs that would be noticeable if someone were to look for them".... is enough that even the teleport guy can find the others eventually, 400+ people looking for someone are going to find them in like 2-3 days. How long did it take you to come up with this idea? They know the other people's powers, I'm sure one of them can figure it out. And what of the GHG who is likely to pop his ability off day 1? I think you put too much faith in what getting individuals can accomplish. There are a lot of nonames that will interact with very important people, and very important people have things rigorously scheduled like months in advance. Getting a president of a nation on a skype call for even 30 minutes to lay out a plan would be surprisingly difficult. You either (a) cause huge fucking suspicion in taking very important people (I will give the benefit of the doubt that for at least 10 hours people will follow along) or (b) play it so cautiously that you don't get anything done. also I'm uncertain if deathnote works this way exactly (my impression is that you can only really control them to do something that leads towards their death directly; I have not seen the anime). | ||
|
rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
if he is against a guy with a gun and asks how I kill him, the voice will say: you dodge the bullets and break his neck... he is not that powerfull like everyone is making him out to be. I still think the DN guy got this... he can control everyone he knows the name and saw the face for 23 days. and is the only one that does not need. also, you need to know who you are looking for them you start looking where is he/she the DN guy does not need to know where are you, once he discover who you are, you are dead. | ||
|
Epishade
United States2267 Posts
Couldn't Guy 4 ask, "How does Death Note Guy kill others?" into "Where is the Death Note" to get info about the death note and most likely it's owner? Then he could steal it, kill Death Note guy, gain his powers and work on tracking down the other guys and taking care of them. With his voice, he can track just about anyone I'd assume. The only real threats here are Guys 3-5. The teleport Guy and freeze time Guy don't really pose a challenge I think to anyone. I'm still a bit confused on how GHG works so I won't comment on him. Apparently if he makes a mistake, he can relive that mistake and change an aspect of that day he relived or something? Edit: I suppose omniscient guy would need the Death Note so he could kill the teleport guy and freeze-guy. He wouldn't be able to kill the teleport guy without it because guy would just teleport away from the battle. | ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
edit: oh, it's like someone else said in this thread, #4 simply asks on day1: tell me all the things I have learned in previous iterations of the time loop, which will include the iteration of the time loop. After this, he is free to try and learn as much as possible about #5 (his main threat), effectively having the same power as he is able to, to a degree, memorize what happens in the time loop, risk death as he will be resurrected after day three anyway and use the second and third day to ask the omniscient voice questions again. He is not allowed to repeat questions, but he can do so anyway, as the time resets and in that case he can ask repeat questions. And of course, if he uses his powers this way, he is almost exactly like #5, except that he can ask the omniscient voice to learn even more than #5 could possibly do. Craziest scenario is that #4 and #5 become aware of each other's existence. | ||
| ||
