|
On September 17 2012 12:51 Rebornlife wrote:
Everyone knows if this continues to escalate China will turn into exactly what the op posted:
A mass grave
INB4 China and japan declare war,
NK joins in with china and attacks SK for the hell of it,
SK attacks NK,
Then the rest of the world painfully takes sides
NK and China end up barren wasteland
WW3
On a serious note, hopefully this doesn't go any further, because wars have been started over a lot less...
:/ Don't wish death on literally more than a billion people please?
|
On September 17 2012 12:59 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 12:51 Rebornlife wrote:
Everyone knows if this continues to escalate China will turn into exactly what the op posted:
A mass grave
INB4 China and japan declare war,
NK joins in with china and attacks SK for the hell of it,
SK attacks NK,
Then the rest of the world painfully takes sides
NK and China end up barren wasteland
WW3
On a serious note, hopefully this doesn't go any further, because wars have been started over a lot less...
:/ Don't wish death on literally more than a billion people please?
Perhaps you missed the part where I said ON A SERIOUS NOTE (meaning the former was said in jest)
I sure as hell don't wish it to happen
|
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh.
|
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 17 2012 13:07 ShadeR wrote:
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh.
Why's that?
|
On September 17 2012 13:10 Souma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:07 ShadeR wrote:
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh. Why's that?
Japan's dad can beat up China's dad.
|
On September 17 2012 12:56 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 12:51 Rebornlife wrote:
Everyone knows if this continues to escalate China will turn into exactly what the op posted:
A mass grave
INB4 China and japan declare war,
NK joins in with china and attacks SK for the hell of it,
SK attacks NK,
Then the rest of the world painfully takes sides
NK and China end up barren wasteland
WW3
On a serious note, hopefully this doesn't go any further, because wars have been started over a lot less...
That makes no sense, when both sides have enough nukes either everything becomes a barren wasteland or nothing does.
Having nukes and effectively deploying them against probably the most difficult "to nuke" nation in the world (Japan is highly defendable due to its small size, and i would also bet after Hiroshima and Nagasaki they have quite the defense system) are two very different things.
However China on the other hand is huge and nearly a third world country in many places.
Plus, who would the world side with in this day and age?
Opressive, communist China?
Or the free Japan?
(Not saying they both don't have their own issues)
Nuclear war is all about defense.
|
On September 17 2012 13:12 seiferoth10 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:10 Souma wrote:On September 17 2012 13:07 ShadeR wrote:
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh. Why's that? Japan's dad can beat up China's dad.
Almost. China don't had a dad =P.
Japan's dad is naturally uncle Sam.
Nieither uncle Sam nor China wants confrontation but a conflict would benefit Japan in that it would be a reason for them to revamp they offensive capability for defensive reasons. Just my own personal conjecture really.
|
On September 17 2012 13:21 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:12 seiferoth10 wrote:On September 17 2012 13:10 Souma wrote:On September 17 2012 13:07 ShadeR wrote:
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh. Why's that? Japan's dad can beat up China's dad. Almost. China don't had a dad =P. Japan's dad is naturally uncle Sam. Nieither uncle Sam nor China wants confrontation but a conflict would benefit Japan in that it would be a reason for them to revamp they offensive capability for defensive reasons. Just my own personal conjecture really.
You don't get that guys joke at all...............
Honestly, this is just a huge embarassment. Every Chinese person that hates Chinese idiocy have more to facepalm about right now. Reminds me of other low class actions going on in other parts of the world.
Chinese are acting like dogs while calling others dogs lol. Someone needs to slap China and wake them up from their idiocracy.
|
On September 17 2012 13:21 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:12 seiferoth10 wrote:On September 17 2012 13:10 Souma wrote:On September 17 2012 13:07 ShadeR wrote:
When it come down to military confrontation i would imagine Japan to want that more than China tbh. Why's that? Japan's dad can beat up China's dad. Almost. China don't had a dad =P. Japan's dad is naturally uncle Sam. Nieither uncle Sam nor China wants confrontation but a conflict would benefit Japan in that it would be a reason for them to revamp they offensive capability for defensive reasons. Just my own personal conjecture really.
I don't think a war with a nuclear capable country would benefit Japan at all or that they would have any desire to go to war with a nuclear capable country. I believe the same applies to the U.S. and China as well; very little to be potentially gained for quite a bit of potential damage doesn't sound like a good judgement call.
|
I can't say that riot's are isolated to china, just usually things like this calm down after a heavyhanded approach from governemnt officials. However it seems because the issue is based in "NATIONALISM" You can't actually properly crack down on the issue. Honestly I hope that Chinese people in general are better than this, with just some bad apples.
|
As A Japanese American with a Japanese passport and who travels to Japan every 2 years, I really wish Noda Daitoryo (Prime Minister noda) could grow a backbone and convince parliament to start submitting documents of apologies for the past, but I don't think it'll ever happen unless something drastic were to occur such as increasing militant conflicts.. I honestly think Takeshima should be returned to s. korea and officially recognized as Dokdo, but this might be only because I consider myself an American first and foremost, and so I don't have the same subjectivity to the issue.
I do, however, firmly believe China has no claim to the Senkaku islands and that they should never ever be allowed to annex Taiwan back, because the western world as well as Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia has a firm recognition in Taiwan's rightful sovereignty, and it has simply been too long for this not to be a conflict with millions of unnecessary casualties if it were to escalate.
|
I honestly don't understand the chinese people. It's one thing for the government to care, but why the fuck do the individual people care so much as to start riots?
|
On September 17 2012 13:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I honestly don't understand the chinese people. It's one thing for the government to care, but why the fuck do the individual people care so much as to start riots?
Read history, maybe starting with the OP.
|
Can't they just split the islands?! :D jk.
Hmm, I think its sad to see this. I mean, you would think that in this day and age we would have better things to worry about.
And rioting in their own country sounds like weird way of co-operating with their government, imo.
|
On September 17 2012 13:50 Liph wrote:
I do, however, firmly believe China has no claim to the Senkaku islands and that they should never ever be allowed to annex Taiwan back, because the western world as well as Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia has a firm recognition in Taiwan's rightful sovereignty, and it has simply been too long for this not to be a conflict with millions of unnecessary casualties if it were to escalate.
I agree with some of your points, but Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia do NOT have recognition of Taiwan's sovereignty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China#List_of_countries_with_diplomatic_relations_with_the_ROC
|
On September 17 2012 13:50 Liph wrote:
As A Japanese American with a Japanese passport and who travels to Japan every 2 years, I really wish Noda Daitoryo (Prime Minister noda) could grow a backbone and convince parliament to start submitting documents of apologies for the past, but I don't think it'll ever happen unless something drastic were to occur such as increasing militant conflicts.. I honestly think Takeshima should be returned to s. korea and officially recognized as Dokdo, but this might be only because I consider myself an American first and foremost, and so I don't have the same subjectivity to the issue.
I do, however, firmly believe China has no claim to the Senkaku islands and that they should never ever be allowed to annex Taiwan back, because the western world as well as Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia has a firm recognition in Taiwan's rightful sovereignty, and it has simply been too long for this not to be a conflict with millions of unnecessary casualties if it were to escalate.
It's nice to see some rational responses here. This thread is filled with too many people that have no idea about the historical events and motivations that have led to Anti-Japanese sentiments in China.
While I'm very critical of China and their policies regarding Taiwan, political issues and other aspects of their country, I understand why they're doing this.
A lot of these people are the children or grandchildren of those that lived through the era when the Rape of Nanjing occured. When you have a strong vocal minority denying that the Nanjing massacre ever occured, and the lack of government acknowledgement or even a public apology for it - The Chinese are going to be pissed off. This will carry on through generations.
Furthermore in recent years with the Japanese trying to gloss overy the unsavoury parts of their history by omitting Nanjing and Unit 731, it just adds more fuel to the fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Relations between China and Japan have been historically strained. Before you people spout off Anti-Chinese or Anti-Japanese sentiments here, at least read up on the history.
On September 17 2012 13:54 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I honestly don't understand the chinese people. It's one thing for the government to care, but why the fuck do the individual people care so much as to start riots? Read history, maybe starting with the OP.
^. I wish more people would take this suggestion and educate themselves further before spouting their uninformed opinions.
|
The interesting thing about these protests is that I think they actually hurt the Chinese government's ability to diplomatically contest for the islands with Japan. It's hard to take the moral high ground against Japan when your own citizens are acting like idiotic barbarians, and bringing up unrelated injustices of the past is hardly an effective way to argue for your cause.
You can tell the Chinese government is in a quandary over these protests because they haven't made any move to support these citizens (although, they haven't done anything to stop them yet). If they choose to move aggressively against Japan as per the citizens' requests, they risk looking stupid to the international community, but if they choose to crack down on the protests, they'll look like they're selling out to Japan.
|
On September 17 2012 14:14 Brutaxilos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:50 Liph wrote:
I do, however, firmly believe China has no claim to the Senkaku islands and that they should never ever be allowed to annex Taiwan back, because the western world as well as Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia has a firm recognition in Taiwan's rightful sovereignty, and it has simply been too long for this not to be a conflict with millions of unnecessary casualties if it were to escalate. I agree with some of your points, but Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia do NOT have recognition of Taiwan's sovereignty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China#List_of_countries_with_diplomatic_relations_with_the_ROC
I think you should actually learn a thing or two, because it's not about recognizing country it's about semantics of recognizing one china. What is listed below is recognizing legitimate ruler of china. Not actually recognizing Taiwan as a separate legitimate nation. And the majority of those recognitions are forced though trade agreements, ie if you officially recognize Taiwan china will not trade with you. It's more dealing with word play rather then beliefs, the US doesn't recognize the RoC per deal to trade with the PRC but still sells military assets to them. In similar capacity s korean government and japan still will do business with the RoC and would prefer if the PRC would invade Taiwan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_China_Policy
|
On September 17 2012 14:37 Newbistic wrote:
The interesting thing about these protests is that I think they actually hurt the Chinese government's ability to diplomatically contest for the islands with Japan. It's hard to take the moral high ground against Japan when your own citizens are acting like idiotic barbarians, and bringing up unrelated injustices of the past is hardly an effective way to argue for your cause.
You can tell the Chinese government is in a quandary over these protests because they haven't made any move to support these citizens (although, they haven't done anything to stop them yet). If they choose to move aggressively against Japan as per the citizens' requests, they risk looking stupid to the international community, but if they choose to crack down on the protests, they'll look like they're selling out to Japan.
That's is government support =p allowing protests in a country known for cracking down on protests is government approval, Similar effect to the protest over the bombing of Chinese embassy in belgrade. China isn't afraid to crack down on it's citizens nor does it care what the international/internal community cares about it doing such crack downs =p it's allowing this because Chinese nationalism is accepted. China's government had a hard time selling distrust and hate of the west after moving to the will of the dollar and it's people falling in love with things imported from the west, so any time anti- country that isn't china pops up china is all for it, it became hard to teach Chinese nationalism post cultural revolution so anytime it's just naturally there they are happy.
Anyways it doesn't hurt their chances for legitimate claim over the territorial waters, china claims to many supposedly ancient Chinese territorial area's with no poof or just random shit that this wouldn't hurt their chances. Frankly i think most of their water disputes will be solved diplomatically with either small successions to the claims or deals being brokered.
|
On September 17 2012 14:41 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 14:14 Brutaxilos wrote:On September 17 2012 13:50 Liph wrote:
I do, however, firmly believe China has no claim to the Senkaku islands and that they should never ever be allowed to annex Taiwan back, because the western world as well as Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia has a firm recognition in Taiwan's rightful sovereignty, and it has simply been too long for this not to be a conflict with millions of unnecessary casualties if it were to escalate. I agree with some of your points, but Japan, S. Korea, and South Asia do NOT have recognition of Taiwan's sovereignty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China#List_of_countries_with_diplomatic_relations_with_the_ROC I think you should actually learn a thing or two, because it's not about recognizing country it's about semantics of recognizing one china. What is listed below is recognizing legitimate ruler of china. Not actually recognizing Taiwan as a separate legitimate nation. And the majority of those recognitions are forced though trade agreements, ie if you officially recognize Taiwan china will not trade with you. It's more dealing with word play rather then beliefs, the US doesn't recognize the RoC per deal to trade with the PRC but still sells military assets to them. In similar capacity s korean government and japan still will do business with the RoC and would prefer if the PRC would invade Taiwan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_China_Policy
The point was that these countries do not recognize Taiwan's independent sovereignty, rather or not you recognize one china is irrelevant. If I do not recognize the sovereignty of Germany but I recognize the EU I still do not recognize Germany as having its own sovereignty. Either you recognize something on principle or you don't, the reasons are circumstantial.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
