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On September 02 2012 11:20 EndofCreation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:17 Xiphos wrote:
Weed have a stronger effect than Alcohol + Tobbaco but it doesn't have that much of toll on your body. But however speaking, because of its result of intake, most people can't possibly take it psychologically. So it should stay at the status quo, to be prescribed.
You don't want to have kids wasting their lives away. Of course no one wants children to have access to drugs like these, same as with alchohol, but with more control from the government these kinds of drugs would be much harder to get for children than they are now. All a dealer wants is the money and he wont care if the person buying is 4, but it would be alot harder to convince someone to buy for you at a convience store
Not sure where you are staying. But here in Canada, we got Daily stores that sells 'Salvia' which effects contain hallucinagens and of course packs of cigarettes. Now the store owner wouldn't sell you these substances if the place is filled with people. But if there are no adults around and you are all alone with him/her, a sale is a sale.
And oh did I forgot to mention that there are 'bongs' around too, same application.
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On September 02 2012 11:31 Equity213 wrote:
weed is for pussies. Real men like me inject crack right into their eyeballs!
Go hard or go home!
The war on drugs is just so stupid imo.
Everything about it has failed drug use rates are higher than ever and the amount of drugs being moved is higher than ever before even with the billions pissed away each year and all the deaths in Mexico. Even the UN put out a report that treating drugs as a criminal issue instead of a health issue has been a massive failure. It has been one of the most expensive programs ever in the states costing a Trillion dollars.
But instead of legalizing weed and taxing it and massively increasing the amount of money pumped into the government by cutting the cost of the drug war and taxing weed they just keep wasting money on a failing program. Weed is the largest cash crop in California right now and they are missing out on a massive chunk of Weed money by not legalizing it. I had a much much much easier time getting weed in highschool that I did recently btw. Dealers don't give a fuck how old you are they just want money. Legalizing weed would also make it much harder to get weed as a kid.
There are no downsides to legalization really. Most arguments are that it makes you stupid/lazy whatever. The study done that showed that weed causes brain damage that people love to quote so much was done by putting masks on monkeys and pumping the equivalent of 50 joints at once into a monkeys face and suffocating it. When you cant get enough oxygen brain cells die but the results were attributed to weed destroying the cells instead of murdering the poor monkeys by suffocation.
I love how Ritalin which is essentially Meth is legal, Alcohol which kills 11 filled Jumbo jets worth of people a year from drunk driving alone, Tobacco, and all the other addictive pain killers on the market are okay. While weed on the other hand kills less people a year than peanuts or sharks (the number is almost always 0).
Nemesis: Rich old people and ignorant kids of said people (or parents who listen to those said people) will always have a stick in their ass about pot, believe in magical beings who control everything and shoot shit out there ass about how moral ust they are and that they believe in "freedom" and the things that are legal but anything illegal = bad and there is no argument against it, it's best to just smoke it and move along with your day.
Usually I don't agree with you Nemesis but you nailed it on the head good sir.
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On September 02 2012 11:40 thurst0n wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:16 Mondieu wrote:
Well what exactly are the benefits of legalizing weeds ? Is our society really missing out on something like this? Do you really feel like if we legalize weed just because ''it's fun'' it would help our human race? People are already pretty stupid and lazy. Legalize that shit and instead of doing something more productive they would just ''relax''.
I really don't care about the subject since people are free to do what they want, but legalizing it would be just senseless imho.
edit: TL isn't the proper place to discuss this imo, since many people are biased :D The benefits of legalizing marijuana are almost endless. There are 3 different uses for the marijuana plant and it's byproducts. 1)Recreational. I personally see no reason why marijuana shouldn't be legal recreational the same way alcohol is. Weed is safer for your body. Safer to those people around you. Still should be illegal to drive under influence etc. 2) Medical. There are more medical benefits than you can count on 2 hands. Almost every major medical association says that research into medicinal marijuana should be done. 3) Industrial. The marijuanna plant has many industrial uses as well. I'm not quite as versed in these but I know their out there. The only reason marijuana is not legal is political reasons. First it was the paper companies who were afraid of the competition from a 3-4 month crop that can grow anywhere. Then it was the propaganda, misunderstanding and fear that was created circa 40's and 50's. The bottom line is that this is not a priority. The only way I see this becoming a priority right now is if 1)Obama wins and 2) he starts looking for ANY option to build the economy. Marijuana could be a much larger industry than it is now. The government already pays some farmers to grow this crop. But as many others will say there is an incredible tax revenue potential. It's just not a priority, most people in the USA are not interested in becoming educated, so this will not happen in the next decade IMO.
One thing to add, legalizing hemp (your third) actually isn't a "drug"... You can't get high from smoking hemp but it's illegal because back when paper vs hemp was a big deal like oil vs green fuel the government gave in a made room for paper by banning hemp and a drug that (a bit paraphrased) "caused black people to go crazy and play crazy music" then legalized it again and followed by making it illegal once again for "making people to passive" ^^ Y world so dumb as to not look at history m4k3 conclusiooooon
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On September 02 2012 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:25 Luepert wrote:On September 02 2012 11:22 Roe wrote:On September 02 2012 11:20 Noro wrote:
Absolutely not. There's no reason behind this. And it is dangerous. Weed is and will always be a gateway drug. My friend recently died from drug use.. and where did it start? One day in highschool smoking weed.
Legalizing it would mean "controlling" it. And if anyone thinks this would get rid of illegal sales of weed, you're very mistaken. There will always be underground illegal operations. It would be the biggest mistake ever to legalize it. You sure he didn't have any problems in his life? My cousin died at age 30 from drug overdose. He too started on weed and worked his way up. I can honestly say most of the troubles in his life were caused by drugs, fighting for them, stealing money to buy them etc. It's a horrible lifestye nobody should have to live. The key point here is that legality didn't stand in his way. I'm sure everything he did was illegal and it didn't matter at all. If this all started in highschool, which I'm assuming it did, it was at a time where finding weed was easier than finding alcohol. Ask anyone who smoked weed and drank in high school and they will tell you that weed is easier to get than alcohol.
More people would be exposed to and follow that lifestyle if it was legalized.
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im all for legalizing, and removing the criminal trade. but my only concern is the plebeians. you know. the kind who are dumb enough to drive piss drunk this day in age. now they'll drunk and high at the same time. good times.
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On September 02 2012 11:40 thurst0n wrote:
The benefits of legalizing marijuana are almost endless. There are 3 different uses for the marijuana plant and it's byproducts.
1)Recreational. I personally see no reason why marijuana shouldn't be legal recreational the same way alcohol is.
Weed is safer for your body. Safer to those people around you. Still should be illegal to drive under influence etc.
2) Medical. There are more medical benefits than you can count on 2 hands. Almost every major medical association says that research into medicinal marijuana should be done.
You're also forgetting foreign policy, here. Half the revenue to drug cartels in Central America come from the illegal trafficking of marijuana to the United States. Legalizing domestic-grown weed while putting extreme penalties on foreign weed imports would effectively end the majority of turmoil in the region.
...actually, even putting foreign weed suppliers under competition without tariffs would still screw them over. It's inherently more expensive to grow weed with soldiers hunting your ass then ship it a hundred miles illegally across a border than it is to grow and sell weed at your local farm.
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ban weed. for that matter, ban tobacco too.
*but leave alcohol alone!
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Short answer: yes.
Long Answer: yes, but you have to be careful.
Legalising marijuana would be such a big tax income for Western countries. There is little to no evidence of it being a gateway drug, there is little evidence it is any more dangerous to people than alcohol or nicotine, yet it has incredibly harsh jail sentences in the US and is strangely vilified - I honestly wonder how many politicians who crusade against drugs like weed have previously imbibed themselves. But should it only be weed legalised, or other drugs?
Unlike weed, plenty of other controlled or banned substances are extremely addictive and dangerous to those taking them. Crack? Meth? Heroin? Not exactly the safest of things to be ingesting. I guess you can make the argument that if it was legal it would remove the biggest source of income for legalised crime, but that's not really a reason to legalise it, especially if you run the risk of opening the drug market to the general population. How many people here would try a drug if it was legal? How many would try it again, and run the risk of getting addicted...?
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On September 02 2012 11:44 a176 wrote:
im all for legalizing, and removing the criminal trade. but my only concern is the plebeians. you know. the kind who are dumb enough to drive piss drunk this day in age. now they'll drunk and high at the same time. good times.
You must be one naive person to think that those people you speak of aren't already doing it... Getting high is possibly 10 to 20 times easier than buying boos and it's relatively cheaper by quite a bit, add that into the fact that almost everyone, everywhere is smoking pot because the law is stupid and the only thing you'll see is a drop in the blackmarket because almost all of its money will shift into the governments pockets instead of the dealers hands, and it will be regulated so it makes it harder for 13yr olds to get the grass (Although just like alcohol, they may very well do it) and taxed like a motherfucker, imagine how much money a the government would make it if industrialized the pot making business and sold it at 10 fucking dollars a gram (which is relatively normal price) and then sold like hydro at 15-20... Motherfuckers would be raking in BILLIONS of dollars anually lol
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On September 02 2012 11:44 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:On September 02 2012 11:25 Luepert wrote:On September 02 2012 11:22 Roe wrote:On September 02 2012 11:20 Noro wrote:
Absolutely not. There's no reason behind this. And it is dangerous. Weed is and will always be a gateway drug. My friend recently died from drug use.. and where did it start? One day in highschool smoking weed.
Legalizing it would mean "controlling" it. And if anyone thinks this would get rid of illegal sales of weed, you're very mistaken. There will always be underground illegal operations. It would be the biggest mistake ever to legalize it. You sure he didn't have any problems in his life? My cousin died at age 30 from drug overdose. He too started on weed and worked his way up. I can honestly say most of the troubles in his life were caused by drugs, fighting for them, stealing money to buy them etc. It's a horrible lifestye nobody should have to live. The key point here is that legality didn't stand in his way. I'm sure everything he did was illegal and it didn't matter at all. If this all started in highschool, which I'm assuming it did, it was at a time where finding weed was easier than finding alcohol. Ask anyone who smoked weed and drank in high school and they will tell you that weed is easier to get than alcohol. More people would be exposed to and follow that lifestyle if it was legalized.
So why isn't California/Amsterdam a wasteland of stoners then?
If you educate people about safe use instead of just lying to them about it maybe teens would actually listen. I remember being told you would destroy your brain in one toke and you would be addicted and you would see things by a teacher.
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On September 02 2012 11:20 Noro wrote:
Absolutely not. There's no reason behind this. And it is dangerous. Weed is and will always be a gateway drug. My friend recently died from drug use.. and where did it start? One day in highschool smoking weed.
Legalizing it would mean "controlling" it. And if anyone thinks this would get rid of illegal sales of weed, you're very mistaken. There will always be underground illegal operations. It would be the biggest mistake ever to legalize it.
I started reading this thread and was face palming the whole time and almost just ALT+F4'd it because writing in this thread can bring nothing but a headache. But I have to do it.
Weed as a gateway drug is a lie and utter fabrication. Did your friend Smoke? There is about a 66% chance that he did. Because tobacco is way more heavily associated with risky behavior than anything else. If you smoke chances are you drink/use other drugs. If you just drink there is a significantly lower chance that you also smoke, but almost all smokers drink. How else would you define a gateway drug?
Here is some sources.
http://scienceblog.com/12116/study-says-marijuana-no-gateway-drug/
http://www.soberliving.com/blog/the-real-gateway-drug-marijuana-vs.-cigarettes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_drug_theory#Tobacco
On your second point. Why the fuck would anyone buy something illegally if there was a cheaper, safer, regulated version of it? It's the same reason I'd rather fuck a prostitute who is regularly tested in a clean, regulated, legal environment. You create danger in things like drugs/prostitution by making it illegal and putting it in the hands of the underground market. If weed were legalized it would drop in price by 80%. Personally I would pay double the price for something made legally that was regulated, vs illegally and unregulated. This is actually making it cheaper though lol
Source:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/08/local/la-me-0708-pot-legalization-20100708
As some other food for thought, think about how easy it is for you to buy weed? Compare that with a controlled substance like alcohol? At any given time in high school I could probably get weed within a half hour, but alcohol? Fuck man, I know people who would pay triple the price for a 6 pack that would be split between 3 friends.
The lesson here is learn a fucking thing or two before you go spouting off bullshit. I don't even use drugs or drink at all but when I see people talking out the ass I can't sit idly by.
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If you believe in personal freedom then yeah, it should. I have not smoked it in my life, maybe I will someday, but I'd just like to put that out there, that I think it should be legal. Weed has never hurt a soul. There might be someone out there who ruined his life cause he got obsessed with it, but just like if someone ruins their life with playing too much starcraft, then thats not starcrafts fault.
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On September 02 2012 11:50 Sanctimonius wrote:
Short answer: yes.
Long Answer: yes, but you have to be careful.
Legalising marijuana would be such a big tax income for Western countries. There is little to no evidence of it being a gateway drug, there is little evidence it is any more dangerous to people than alcohol or nicotine, yet it has incredibly harsh jail sentences in the US and is strangely vilified - I honestly wonder how many politicians who crusade against drugs like weed have previously imbibed themselves. But should it only be weed legalised, or other drugs?
Unlike weed, plenty of other controlled or banned substances are extremely addictive and dangerous to those taking them. Crack? Meth? Heroin? Not exactly the safest of things to be ingesting. I guess you can make the argument that if it was legal it would remove the biggest source of income for legalised crime, but that's not really a reason to legalise it, especially if you run the risk of opening the drug market to the general population. How many people here would try a drug if it was legal? How many would try it again, and run the risk of getting addicted...?
This is the actual interesting question. In my perfect little world people would be allowed to ingest and consume whatever they want. Cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, really whatever. I would have no moral issue legalizing stuff like that at all. To me, weed is a given for reasons I won't go into, the real question should be in what way can we implement a safer, more socially responsible way of legalizing everything? That is a truly interesting question because it would definitely be a slower process, the first step obviously being completely decriminalizing the use, and treating addicts.
On September 02 2012 11:52 JacobShock wrote:
If you believe in personal freedom then yeah, it should. I have not smoked it in my life, maybe I will someday, but I'd just like to put that out there, that I think it should be legal. Weed has never hurt a soul. There might be someone out there who ruined his life cause he got obsessed with it, but just like if someone ruins their life with playing too much starcraft, then thats not starcrafts fault.
I want everyone who uses the "But ******" ruins lives." argument for continued prohibition to look at what this guy said and madlib "starcraft" with anything you want. Very few things are good in excess, and almost anything can in some way kill you, so arguing any of those points should be left to an individuals discretion if they want to do it.
It's like how every time I go to this all you can eat sushi place for 15$ I knowing understand the risk that there might be old, uncooked fish and the chance of me shitting my pants for a couple of days is around 30% and I do it anyway.
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It should stay illegal, however alcohol, smoking, that shit you put up under your lip etc should also be illegal.
Also working out and classes about eating right should be mandatory. Still shocks me how much people like hating theirself, the body is our vessel in life, why not love it more?
My biggest "want" in the list above is schools introducing classes to learn kids about eating right, since currently one is at their parents mercy here.
If kids could come home and suddenly go "we learned that is not good for us mommy ! we should have that instead!" would be great.
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The infamous marijuana legalization debate :O
I would err on the side of allowing it. I don't believe there is too much evidence behind it being a gateway drug, and it ranks low in both addictiveness and harmfulness--in fact it carries, as many know, many powerful positive effects. However while people may not become addicted to weed because of a fundamental chemical dependence, it's true that a lot of people can't stop smoking it and whatnot :/
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On September 02 2012 11:59 NTTemplar wrote:
It should stay illegal, however alcohol, smoking, that shit you put up under your lip etc should also be illegal.
Also working out and classes about eating right should be mandatory. Still shocks me how much people like hating theirself, the body is our vessel in life, why not love it more?
My biggest "want" in the list above is schools introducing classes to learn kids about eating right, since currently one is at their parents mercy here.
If kids could come home and suddenly go "we learned that is not good for us mommy ! we should have that instead!" would be great.
I will give you the same type of respect I give the Chick-Fi-A guy, and that is the respect of at least being consistent in your beliefs, even if they are incredibly backwards and insane.
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On September 02 2012 12:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:59 NTTemplar wrote:
It should stay illegal, however alcohol, smoking, that shit you put up under your lip etc should also be illegal.
Also working out and classes about eating right should be mandatory. Still shocks me how much people like hating theirself, the body is our vessel in life, why not love it more?
My biggest "want" in the list above is schools introducing classes to learn kids about eating right, since currently one is at their parents mercy here.
If kids could come home and suddenly go "we learned that is not good for us mommy ! we should have that instead!" would be great. I will give you the same type of respect I give the Chick-Fi-A guy, and that is the respect of at least being consistent in your beliefs, even if they are incredibly backwards and insane.
Yes. everything you just said is pure win
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nvm
Realized how pointless it is to post here.
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On September 02 2012 11:59 NTTemplar wrote:
It should stay illegal, however alcohol, smoking, that shit you put up under your lip etc should also be illegal.
Also working out and classes about eating right should be mandatory. Still shocks me how much people like hating theirself, the body is our vessel in life, why not love it more?
My biggest "want" in the list above is schools introducing classes to learn kids about eating right, since currently one is at their parents mercy here.
If kids could come home and suddenly go "we learned that is not good for us mommy ! we should have that instead!" would be great.
respect to your belief
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On September 02 2012 11:51 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:44 a176 wrote:
im all for legalizing, and removing the criminal trade. but my only concern is the plebeians. you know. the kind who are dumb enough to drive piss drunk this day in age. now they'll drunk and high at the same time. good times. You must be one naive person to think that those people you speak of aren't already doing it... Getting high is possibly 10 to 20 times easier than buying boos and it's relatively cheaper by quite a bit, add that into the fact that almost everyone, everywhere is smoking pot because the law is stupid and the only thing you'll see is a drop in the blackmarket because almost all of its money will shift into the governments pockets instead of the dealers hands, and it will be regulated so it makes it harder for 13yr olds to get the grass (Although just like alcohol, they may very well do it) and taxed like a motherfucker, imagine how much money a the government would make it if industrialized the pot making business and sold it at 10 fucking dollars a gram (which is relatively normal price) and then sold like hydro at 15-20... Motherfuckers would be raking in BILLIONS of dollars anually lol
What, getting MJ is easier than getting booze?? Come on, think about it. Almost every adult has some sort of alcohol in their household because it's legal and very popular. Marijuana is illegal and thus must be bought illicitly via black market or grown itself, and is not popularly consumed by grown adults (not the 420 weed erryday 16-26 year olds).
Overall, I think marijuana should be legal along with relatively safe ecstasy because there's no reason not to. They are both quite safe, possibly more so than cigarettes, and there's no point in banning something like that; it goes against our liberty. I would, however, support a large tax on them to keep them expensive to prevent their use from becomely rampant across the country. Hopefully one day, people will realize that these drugs are only good for use every once in a while: they aren't particularly healthy, you can get addicted (maybe not physically, but you can), and they aren't cheap. To be honest I doubt marijuana's effects on the lung are much better than cigs', unless you vaporize or something. I'm not a smoker so I don't know for certain 
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On September 02 2012 12:08 Chocolate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:51 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On September 02 2012 11:44 a176 wrote:
im all for legalizing, and removing the criminal trade. but my only concern is the plebeians. you know. the kind who are dumb enough to drive piss drunk this day in age. now they'll drunk and high at the same time. good times. You must be one naive person to think that those people you speak of aren't already doing it... Getting high is possibly 10 to 20 times easier than buying boos and it's relatively cheaper by quite a bit, add that into the fact that almost everyone, everywhere is smoking pot because the law is stupid and the only thing you'll see is a drop in the blackmarket because almost all of its money will shift into the governments pockets instead of the dealers hands, and it will be regulated so it makes it harder for 13yr olds to get the grass (Although just like alcohol, they may very well do it) and taxed like a motherfucker, imagine how much money a the government would make it if industrialized the pot making business and sold it at 10 fucking dollars a gram (which is relatively normal price) and then sold like hydro at 15-20... Motherfuckers would be raking in BILLIONS of dollars anually lol What, getting MJ is easier than getting booze?? Come on, think about it. Almost every adult has some sort of alcohol in their household because it's legal and very popular. Marijuana is illegal and thus must be bought illicitly via black market or grown itself, and is not popularly consumed by grown adults (not the 420 weed erryday 16-26 year olds). Overall, I think marijuana should be legal along with relatively safe ecstasy because there's no reason not to. They are both quite safe, possibly more so than cigarettes, and there's no point in banning something like that; it goes against our liberty. I would, however, support a large tax on them to keep them expensive to prevent their use from becomely rampant across the country. Hopefully one day, people will realize that these drugs are only good for use every once in a while: they aren't particularly healthy, you can get addicted (maybe not physically, but you can), and they aren't cheap. To be honest I doubt marijuana's effects on the lung are much better than cigs', unless you vaporize or something. I'm not a smoker so I don't know for certain
Then your parents see a bottle of vodka missing and you get beat. Seriously, maybe if your parents are raging alcoholics and can't remember when or what they bought then you could get away with it, but in any other circumstance it would probably be harder, especially if for whatever reason you need to buy it. If you had to buy weed or alcohol and not just steal it from you parents then it is much much more difficult. Could you agree with that?
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EPT
