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On September 21 2012 16:27 Swede wrote:
I would be happy for marijuana to be legalised provided there was a reliable method of preventing minors from accessing it. There probably isn't though, and since marijuana can significantly stunt the brain development of physically immature users, and since brain development can continue into the early 20s I would prefer not to see it legalized yet. Alcohol is temptation enough, and already fucks up enough teens on its own.
Like people have said, 99% of adults can access marijuana if they want to, and as long as you're not carrying huge amounts you probably won't get fucked over by police (in most countries). And if you're somewhere you can't smoke it then just do something else with your time. It will probably be better spent anyway.
It's hardly a pressing 'issue' for the amount of discussion it gets. In fact, I think the busier you are with life the less you give a shit.
Minors already have really easy access to it. Hell, I was dealing it when I was still a junior in HS. All of my customers were teenagers as well. It's not hard to find at all.
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Weed should absolutely be legalized. Aside from the fact it's a completely natural substance, it has virturally zero negative side effects. I've never felt impaired driving or doing anything high; in fact I would say most things are more entertaining high (typing this I'm thinking of Jon Stuart in Half Baked), and that's really not even an exaggeration. As a matter of fact I'm stoned right now and would probably not be writing this unless I had just smoked.
The "gateway drug" argument we learned in D.A.R.E was pretty much disproven in my experience, and I'd hardly consider myself an outlier. A lot of my friends smoke just as much as I do and are either employed, in school or doing something productive with their lives. I hate to compare it to alcohol, but let's be honest- alcohol is a lot worse. Also the argument that the legalization of alcohol is justified by its engrained status in our culture is hardly compelling considering prohitibtion occurred less than 80 years ago, among other things.
I think it goes without saying the government would profit enormously from a tax on marijuana, and there isn't a nation in the world that couldn't use some extra money right now.
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On September 21 2012 16:50 neversummer wrote:
Weed should absolutely be legalized. Aside from the fact it's a completely natural substance, it has virturally zero negative side effects. I've never felt impaired driving or doing anything high; in fact I would say most things are more entertaining high (typing this I'm thinking of Jon Stuart in Half Baked), and that's really not even an exaggeration. As a matter of fact I'm stoned right now and would probably not be writing this unless I had just smoked.
The "gateway drug" argument we learned in D.A.R.E was pretty much disproven in my experience, and I'd hardly consider myself an outlier. A lot of my friends smoke just as much as I do and are either employed, in school or doing something productive with their lives. I hate to compare it to alcohol, but let's be honest- alcohol is a lot worse. Also the argument that the legalization of alcohol is justified by its engrained status in our culture is hardly compelling considering prohitibtion occurred less than 80 years ago, among other things.
I think it goes without saying the government would profit enormously from a tax on marijuana, and there isn't a nation in the world that couldn't use some extra money right now.
No negative side effect's might be true, But if you smoke and drive your a idiot. Insurance won't cover that bro
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On September 21 2012 16:27 Swede wrote:
I would be happy for marijuana to be legalised provided there was a reliable method of preventing minors from accessing it. There probably isn't though, and since marijuana can significantly stunt the brain development of physically immature users, and since brain development can continue into the early 20s I would prefer not to see it legalized yet. Alcohol is temptation enough, and already fucks up enough teens on its own.
Like people have said, 99% of adults can access marijuana if they want to, and as long as you're not carrying huge amounts you probably won't get fucked over by police (in most countries). And if you're somewhere you can't smoke it then just do something else with your time. It will probably be better spent anyway.
It's hardly a pressing 'issue' for the amount of discussion it gets. In fact, I think the busier you are with life the less you give a shit.
Unregulating it and making it illegal makes it SO MUCH EASIER for minors to get. When I was in High School my friends and I would often buy weed to smoke on the weekend because nobody knew anybody over 21 to buy them alcohol. Furthermore the repercussions of us, as minors, getting caught smoking weed were absolutely nil. My friends got caught at a park when we were 17 and the cops just drove us home and let us off with a warning. If somebody had bought us alcohol instead, and that person got caught, he'd be completely fucked. That's over a $1000 fine and hundreds of hours of community service.
It'd be so much harder for minors to get if it was regulated like alcohol. Anybody who's grown up in the past 20 years and has had experiences with both substances will verify this.
On September 21 2012 17:07 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 16:50 neversummer wrote:
Weed should absolutely be legalized. Aside from the fact it's a completely natural substance, it has virturally zero negative side effects. I've never felt impaired driving or doing anything high; in fact I would say most things are more entertaining high (typing this I'm thinking of Jon Stuart in Half Baked), and that's really not even an exaggeration. As a matter of fact I'm stoned right now and would probably not be writing this unless I had just smoked.
The "gateway drug" argument we learned in D.A.R.E was pretty much disproven in my experience, and I'd hardly consider myself an outlier. A lot of my friends smoke just as much as I do and are either employed, in school or doing something productive with their lives. I hate to compare it to alcohol, but let's be honest- alcohol is a lot worse. Also the argument that the legalization of alcohol is justified by its engrained status in our culture is hardly compelling considering prohitibtion occurred less than 80 years ago, among other things.
I think it goes without saying the government would profit enormously from a tax on marijuana, and there isn't a nation in the world that couldn't use some extra money right now. No negative side effect's might be true, But if you smoke and drive your a idiot. Insurance won't cover that bro
As I've said earlier in the thread, getting high and going for a drive is one of my favorite pasttimes back in the states. It's literally more safe for me than driving sober because I'm not in a hurry, I don't push the speed limit, and I'm not irritable. I've driven high countless hundreds of times with no consequences.
On the other hand, driving sober I've been in 2 accidents and had 2 speeding tickets.
I want to add that it's different for people with no tolerance, but for people who don't lose motor skills (aka they've been high more than ~10 times in their life) it's completely safe. The government would never be convinced of that though, but frankly I don't give a shit, because they're never going to catch me driving high because I'm never going to get into an accident or speed while high.
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On September 21 2012 17:09 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 16:27 Swede wrote:
I would be happy for marijuana to be legalised provided there was a reliable method of preventing minors from accessing it. There probably isn't though, and since marijuana can significantly stunt the brain development of physically immature users, and since brain development can continue into the early 20s I would prefer not to see it legalized yet. Alcohol is temptation enough, and already fucks up enough teens on its own.
Like people have said, 99% of adults can access marijuana if they want to, and as long as you're not carrying huge amounts you probably won't get fucked over by police (in most countries). And if you're somewhere you can't smoke it then just do something else with your time. It will probably be better spent anyway.
It's hardly a pressing 'issue' for the amount of discussion it gets. In fact, I think the busier you are with life the less you give a shit. Unregulating it and making it illegal makes it SO MUCH EASIER for minors to get. When I was in High School my friends and I would often buy weed to smoke on the weekend because nobody knew anybody over 21 to buy them alcohol. Furthermore the repercussions of us, as minors, getting caught smoking weed were absolutely nil. My friends got caught at a park when we were 17 and the cops just drove us home and let us off with a warning. If somebody had bought us alcohol instead, and that person got caught, he'd be completely fucked. That's over a $1000 fine and hundreds of hours of community service. It'd be so much harder for minors to get if it was regulated like alcohol. Anybody who's grown up in the past 20 years and has had experiences with both substances will verify this.
This is sooooo true. People who think otherwise actually have no clue, its the same when/where I grew up too. Actually tbh it was pretty easy to get both, and I wasn't exactly the rebellious type or in with that kind of crowd either. Although when I was in NZ and Australia it was way easier to get booze.. but thats because the drinking age was 18 so all the 14-15 yo's get pissed over there.
What is actually really annoying is when news of marijuana being able to be used to stop the spread of cancer, etc... if all these restrictions and laws hadn't been put in place so much more research could have gone into it by now. Same goes for LSD.
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On September 21 2012 14:17 urashimakt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 13:21 Grumbels wrote:On September 21 2012 13:16 b0mBerMan wrote:On September 21 2012 09:48 rogzardo wrote:
1 - Total deaths from Cannabis overdose: 0
2 - Total deaths caused from alcohol, tobacco, and prescription drugs: hundreds of thousands per year.
3 - Marijuana's current status as illegal does not prevent anyone from smoking it who cares to. Depending on what poll you look at, 40-60 percent of the US population under the age of 21 has smoked at least once, and about 10-15 percent smoke regularly. A recent study that has been thrown around this thread (by people opposed to legalization) states that 7% of high school seniors smoke weed every day.We've all heard anecdotal evidence that high school age children often have a harder time acquiring beer than marijuana.
4 - Hundreds of thousands of Americans suffer from disease for which marijuana can provide some relief, but are denied access.
5 - Marijuana laws typically prosecute marijuana users on a similar level to users of cocaine, heroin, and meth. Sources? 6 - Many professionals are marijuana users. The stereotype of a lazy fuck-up exists for smokers and non-smokers alike. Some notable smokers include Bill Gates, Rick Steves, Pablo Picasso, Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Francis Crick, Andrew Weil, Kary Mullis, Oliver Sacks, Richard Feynman, and the list goes on and on if you care to look. So are the regular homeless wrecked Johns and Janes who live by the city's dirt and filth. Status of users are not direct evidence for or against legalization of marijuana. 8 - Studies have shown that marijuana use does not negatively impact your brain, but it is a moot point when discussing legality. Alcohol is 100% proven to damage your brain, liver, and many other systems in your body, and yet it remains legal. Cannabis' negative physical side effects are at the worst controversial, and at best hardly existent. This is not a basis for prohibition.
Sources? Sources? Go read the thread. I've read all the posts so far and I've seen at least half a dozen reboots where the same claims were questioned and the same sources were given. If he's going to make a post containing only a list of statements and say "discuss", he should source it. You don't source it by saying "it's here somewhere, go find it". That's not a useful discussion. Some of those points are not here somewhere. I've read the thread. Some of them might be in videos that are over two hours long. Statements like "total deaths from Cannabis overdose: 0" aren't even within reason. A study to prove that is impossible. Something like "0 of 10,000 marijuana smokers in a study died of an overdose, leading scientists to believe it is impossible to overdose on Cannabis" would be more reasonable.
go find a person who has died from cannabis use alone. do it. seriously. this statistic is thrown arown literally EVERYWHERE and people still think they can dispute it.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mjfaq1.htm
read this. please.
Yes, it is "technically" possible to overdose on THC, but in order to do so you would have to use a concentrated dose directly injected into the body. People smoke weed, not inject it. In order to OD from smoking weed you would need to smoke 40 000 times the amount normally required to get you high. yes. FOURTY THOUSAND TIMES AS MUCH. you cant actually do that man, you would suffocate first, or your body would metabolize the thc faster than you could smoke it.
also, the whole purpose of legalization of drugs is not to let them run rampant, but rather to have people use them safely. if you're not hiding from the law you can get accurate information publicly. this information will be available because many of these illegal drugs will be legal and therefore can be researched to a MUCH further extent than is currently allowed. as well, the use can be restricted to responsible adults, and those with patterns of abuse can have support systems, rather than being thrown in jail.
honestly, please tell me specifically which of rogzardos points you think are wrong. because honestly there is even more to support legalization than just what he said.
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Leave it illegal. Weed is like being poor.
Taking weed doesnt mean you are a failure / stupid, but taking weed means you are more likely to be.
It being illegal makes it harder for people to be stupid enough to use it.
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On September 21 2012 17:25 ContrailNZ wrote:
Leave it illegal. Weed is like being poor.
Taking weed doesnt mean you are a failure / stupid, but taking weed means you are more likely to be.
It being illegal makes it harder for people to be stupid enough to use it.
Pretty silly generalization. This kind of thinking is so close to superstition and should never be used in a rational argument. Much in the same way you wouldn't treat someone with a mental illness with an exorcist.
Anyway, I think the most important change that should happen is medical cannabis. It does help people and it's one of the few substances that is safe to take with a lowered immune system.
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First off, I don't smoke weed, I'm in the military which makes it sort of difficult. That being said, I fully support the legalization of marijuana. I stand with Ron Paul in saying everything should be legalised. Stopping the federal governments war on drugs alone would bring about a huge budget cut. It would also help to reduce the federal governments influence on your decisions.
Alcohol is just as bad, if not worse than most of the drugs that are out there. If people are free to drink, you should be free to decide on any other indulgence. If it kills you, that's your fault.
Pot is much much safer than alcohol, or cigarettes even. and the government spends (I dont have an actual figure, lets just say A LOT) trying to eliminate it for YOUR safety. This isn't much different from the city of New York deciding what size soft drinks you are allowed to have. It's wrong, and it doesnt belong in the federal government's (or any level of government's) hands.
I Guess my stance is more towards personal freedom, and keeping the fed out of peoples buisness. Also if pot was legal i would totally smoke up. :0)
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On September 21 2012 09:12 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 08:54 Goozen wrote:On September 21 2012 08:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote: On September 21 2012 08:38 Goozen wrote:
I really dont understand the whole "alcohol is worse for your so we should legalize weed" point. If anything its a argument to= outlaw alcohol not legalize weed. I think it is because you need something to compare it too. I can say that smoking marijuana is less addictive than coffee (studies do show this) and it has no solid negative effects while having positive health effects (medical marijuana is marijuana, no difference). There is a study circulating that it may cause schizophrenia if consumed prior to 16 but that is not proven and challenged heavily by Swedish and American doctors (it was a British study). So although I agree saying "this is not as bad as that, don't ban it" may come off as a weak argument, but the idea of "freedom" is that we can do what we want with our bodies, marijuana other then the "smell" has zero effect on the people around, it is NOT dangerous (no second hand smoke) where alcohol counts for around 90+ thousand deaths per year just in the states, a lot in drunk driving accidents killing innocent people. Well i wouldnt say not dangerous as driving under influence of weed im sure dose cause accidents, no where as many but it still dose. Personally im not against legalizing weed but first you have to solve these issues. 1. How do you prevent minors of getting using weed. 2. How do we make sure that people only buy legal and not fund crime/terror. 3. How do we prevent people from becoming mentally addicted (ie; limit amount someone can smoke). 4. Prevent driving under influence or smoking at work etc. 5. Screen people to make sure it wont trigger mental issues (weed can trigger mental conditions in those that have a history or are at high risk) Once you solve all these you then have to find a way legalize weed globally (or say in all western countries) so that you dont have all the issues of Amsterdam and prevent smuggling/crime/drug tourism. Just due to this i dont see it happening despite alot of places in the world dont really care about individuel smokers. 1. You prevent it from getting to minors BY legalizing it. Alcohol is used by minors and you can't stop someone getting what they want ever, but it is a factor I can't even fathom easier to get pot as a kid then it is to get alcohol because it isn't regulated. 2. You can't stop illegal activities, but by creating strong laws (it is 50 dollars per illegal cigarette in Canada that you're caught with as a fine) it discourages the use of illegal drugs. Add that to the fact no drug maker could ever keep up with a country industrializing weed the entire business would be run out and that is why you don't hear much in the way of illegal smokes or alcohol, they frankly can't keep up nor produce an equivalent product. 3. You can't "limit" something in a "free" country if it is legal, just know that you can't die from the consumption unless you smoke something like your body weight in pot (this is an assumption, no one ever actually died from smoking marijuana) My answer would be that you shouldn't try to regulate the people, just the product. The average pot smoker smokes no more than 4 joints per day (ranging from 7 down) where an alcoholic or heavy smoker can drink or smoke factors above that. It would be like trying to regulate coffee at a coffee shop, you jsut can't do it nor would it be right to do so as it frankly isn't your business. 4. You can't stop stupidity, if someone drives drunk or intoxicated in anyway then that is simply a fact of life just as you can't stop someone from driving who hasn't slept in 30 hours and runs off the road but in a society we accept such risks because frankly you can't regulate stupidity. The idea of banning a substance that has no adverse effects and causes very few fatalities from "drugged driving" when compared to alcohol just because it MAY be done shouldn't ever be the case. It would be like banning butcher knifes because someone MAY go on a killing spree, or banning stoves becasue it MAY light your house on fire. 5. Show nested quote +weed can trigger mental conditions in those that have a history or are at high risk You will have to cite this as all of the research I have seen (except for schizophrenia which again is not proven and shows no proof when compared across countries over the past few years) shows that it only has positive effects. You can't equate banning a product because a marginal few may get affected (unproven I might add). If that was the case all video games would be banned because some people have epileptic seizures. I hope that kinda clears it up EDIT: Article showing 10 health benefits (these are proven, you can research if you want)
1. Well your experiences may say it was easier to get weed then alcohol as a minor in most places the opposite is true. Here its very difficult to get drugs as a minor in comparison to alcohol that is very easy to get. So im pretty sure there needs to be a proper solution to this issue.
2. Illegal alcohol dose exist however due to it being relatively more difficult and dangerous to make less so then weed. Also you need a way to tell them apart. In addition alot of people choose to smoke weed at home so even if u brand it, it wont do much good. and even today there are high fines to those who smoke weed and still people smoke it.
3. While smoking hurts your health you can be a productive member of society while you smoke not so if your high. So the government needs to limit it and find a way (the idea of having a max quota and using a card that someone suggested in this thread is a very good idea). Saying "its a free country" will only hurt the chances of it being legal. Because people who oppose legalization wont be won over unless it is limited.
4. Your example of comparing to knives is demagogic and out of place. People do drive while high and accidents do happen due to this. (Also why saying weed hasnt killed anyone isnt true.) And drunk driving shows us how much of a problem it is already we dont need a second problem.
One of the best solutions in my opinion is to make smoking only legal in "coffee shops" and only allow purchase there in addition to having a quota of how much a person can have.
This will solve all the main issues and will leave both sides unhappy but it the only one i can think of.
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On September 21 2012 17:25 ContrailNZ wrote:
Leave it illegal. Weed is like being poor.
Taking weed doesnt mean you are a failure / stupid, but taking weed means you are more likely to be.
It being illegal makes it harder for people to be stupid enough to use it.
Thats one the the most stupid craps I have ever read regarding this subject.
Classic infantile rant
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On September 21 2012 17:25 ContrailNZ wrote:
Leave it illegal. Weed is like being poor.
Taking weed doesnt mean you are a failure / stupid, but taking weed means you are more likely to be.
It being illegal makes it harder for people to be stupid enough to use it.
well i'd rather be a stupid user than write such ignorant drivel. Open your eyes, you might see things for what they really are.
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On September 21 2012 13:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:07 GettingIt wrote:
My economics professor said it should be legalized because it would eliminate a lot of crime. Your economics professor is a wise man...
Should rape, burglary, and murder be legalized too, since the result would be to eliminate a lot of crime ?
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The war on drugs, at least in the United States, creates a lot of well paying jobs. The tax revenue on making legal would not make up for this hit the anti drug community (DEA, Local PD, Coast Guard) would take as it would take a large portion of their jobs away and they would all need to be downsized significantly.
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On September 22 2012 00:56 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 13:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On September 21 2012 10:07 GettingIt wrote:
My economics professor said it should be legalized because it would eliminate a lot of crime. Your economics professor is a wise man... Should rape, burglary, and murder be legalized too, since the result would be to eliminate a lot of crime ?
Your reply is pretty idiotic. Obviously the idea is that marijuana itself doesn't hurt anyone, but the illegal trade around it causes tons of murders and bad stuff. If legalized, bad stuff goes away somewhat. Though I'm sure you knew that already.
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On September 22 2012 00:56 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 13:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On September 21 2012 10:07 GettingIt wrote:
My economics professor said it should be legalized because it would eliminate a lot of crime. Your economics professor is a wise man... Should rape, burglary, and murder be legalized too, since the result would be to eliminate a lot of crime ?
Nice false equivalency bruh
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On September 22 2012 01:15 StreetWise wrote:
The war on drugs, at least in the United States, creates a lot of well paying jobs. The tax revenue on making legal would not make up for this hit the anti drug community (DEA, Local PD, Coast Guard) would take as it would take a large portion of their jobs away and they would all need to be downsized significantly.
How about no. One of the biggest reasons the "War on Drugs" fails so hard has to do with the volume of possible cases and the inherent limitations of the big national executive agencies. With the legalization of marijuana, instead of paying 20 men opwards of 80k a year to walk through the woods searching for hippie pot groves, they can instead spend more time on urban narcotic distribution, border investigations, and large-scale interdiction, and, you know, actually pursue the drugs worth policing. And you heard it here first, Kaitlin has informed us all that smoking marijuana is similar enough to burglary and murder to warrant a pathetic comparison. Yeah.......
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On September 22 2012 01:15 StreetWise wrote:
The war on drugs, at least in the United States, creates a lot of well paying jobs. The tax revenue on making legal would not make up for this hit the anti drug community (DEA, Local PD, Coast Guard) would take as it would take a large portion of their jobs away and they would all need to be downsized significantly.
It might be unfortunate for them but why should US tax payers pay for people who are doing pointless work? They can find some other source of employment. Perhaps ending segregation was bad because the water fountain companies have their demand cut in half! (Ok, pretty silly comparison there.)
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I've smoked weed for a long time, and I personally think that it should be kept illegal. Honestly, anyone who smokes knows how easy it is to get it. So why make it legal? Though you might think there are no negative repercussions of smoking, I know a bunch of my friends who's been fucked up because of weed. I'm not saying all weed smokers are like this, but for some people it slowly changes their personality to make them more apathetic, lazier and less ambitious.
Just thought I'd let people know that there are people who smoke weed and enjoy it but prefer for it to be kept illegal. I think i'm coming from quite a well informed stance on drugs in general, just from my personal experience.
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On September 22 2012 00:56 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 13:37 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On September 21 2012 10:07 GettingIt wrote:
My economics professor said it should be legalized because it would eliminate a lot of crime. Your economics professor is a wise man... Should rape, burglary, and murder be legalized too, since the result would be to eliminate a lot of crime ?
Best post yet, and this thread has had a lot of competition.
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EPT
