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On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck.
Care to provide an example? Or a VOD even, a specific time where the outcome of the game is decided purely by luck, and nothing the players could do to change it. Please?
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On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck.
What number specifically is randomly generated?
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Kotaku is a dirty word on TL.
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On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated?
The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit.
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On August 09 2012 01:02 Andr3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. Care to provide an example? Or a VOD even, a specific time where the outcome of the game is decided purely by luck, and nothing the players could do to change it. Please?
Close position metalopolis
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United States10328 Posts
On August 09 2012 00:23 Panthae wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:33 Rabbitmaster wrote:On August 03 2012 07:30 aeroblaster wrote:
You put LoL up on that list but not Dota 2? mega hard fail dude I agree, but as of now, LoL is vastly more popular. Atleast from my experience. Do you think Javelin throwing is a popular sport? It's not. But it's an activity that can be appreciated for it's difficulty and physical/mental prowess.
Well, perhaps more pertinently, javelin throwing is a physical test of skill which has been around (in some form) for thousands of years. Horseback riding has been around for thousands of years. Even pistol shooting is at least a hundred years old.
Again, the problem with putting electronic "sports" in the Olympics is that electronic "sports" haven't existed for very long.
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On August 09 2012 01:37 Tralalo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated? The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit.
The firerate and damage of every unit in the game, marines and battlecruisers as well, is constant. There is no RNG about them at all.
edit: Thats said, there is a small amount of luck involved in big battles, mainly what units chooses to attack what targets. The biggest units, like collosus, can always overcome this with target fire and such, but you can not target fire with every marine when you have 50+ of them, and thus it can become somewhat of a luck game depending on what targets they choose to kill first (meaning: if theres 2 zealots, they can choose to either damage 50% on each, or 100% on one. The latter obviously being better). But its still such a small part of the game that it can always be overcome by simply playing better than your opponent
edit2: As poster below mentioned, spawn positions is RNG. But those are usually overcome by having your opponent always spawning cross map in tournaments anyways.
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On August 09 2012 01:37 Tralalo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated? The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit.
This. I'm not aware of a game that was decided because of the random attack animation delay, but there are games in which two identical units fire at each other until one dies, in which case the winning unit is decided solely by luck. It seems that there is a similar random component in worker mining times that can occasionally desync a worker pair on close minerals. As I said, it's only in very specific circumstances, but the blanket claim that there is no RNG in SC2 is false, as anyone familiar with the basics of the map editor would have been able to tell you.
Edit to add: And obviously the RNG is involved in determining spawn positions, which obviously introduce a factor of luck into the game, given that spawn positions are not identically balanced.
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Considering that the criteria for an Olympic sport seem to include " Only kids that did it since they were 3-5 years old due to being pushed by there parents or the state", " Physical decay 2-10 years after you stop due to fucked up metabolism and muscles/bones" and of course the " Will be homeless or working as a janitor unless you get on that damn podium once or twice... you have around 1 to 4 tries depending on the sport"... id say no, video games aren't exactly Olympic material.
Football and basketball managed to pass due to a high performance in terms of doping and arranged matches and tennis somehow sneaked in there as well so who knows ? SC2 for 2018 winter Olympics !!!!
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If we put sc2 in the Olympics, we'd see nothing but Koreans getting the gold ^^
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Even chess is not olympic, or sometimes a sport at all, as it is only sitting infront of a table...and chess could be considered as the closest thing compared to esport. So no esport at Olympia in the future...
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On August 09 2012 05:32 greenelve wrote:
Even chess is not olympic, or sometimes a sport at all, as it is only sitting infront of a table...and chess could be considered as the closest thing compared to esport. So no esport at Olympia in the future...
It isn't part of the olympic games, but it is reckognized as a sport, so it is not just sometimes, but at all times, a sport.
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On August 09 2012 01:37 Tralalo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated? The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit.
A unit with a fire rate, or officially, an attack delay, of 2.491846037583658365843 will shoot every 2.491846037583658365843 units of time. It's an average because the average of {2,2,2} is 2. In the beta there was some type of additional delay, I believe.
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On August 09 2012 07:03 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 01:37 Tralalo wrote:On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated? The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit. A unit with a fire rate, or officially, an attack delay, of 2.491846037583658365843 will shoot every 2.491846037583658365843 units of time. It's an average because the average of {2,2,2} is 2. In the beta there was some type of additional delay, I believe.
No, this has been discussed quite often; there is an actual random delay that is added to or subtraced from the attack cooldown, and it differs from attack to attack. It was discussed here most recently: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353546.
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Video games have no place in the Olympics, I sincerely hope this NEVER happens.
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On August 03 2012 07:32 StateofReverie wrote:
tic tac toe
You know that it's impossible to win that game right? Every match will be several days long, ending only when one player makes a mistake.
But I must say I wan't to see BW as a sport, because it's.. a better sport?
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On August 09 2012 14:48 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 07:03 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 01:37 Tralalo wrote:On August 09 2012 01:06 Chargelot wrote:On August 09 2012 00:51 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 08 2012 23:46 Chargelot wrote:On August 08 2012 23:39 sharky246 wrote:
Is this a joke? Sc2 game results are too much affected by luck. If it's gonna be a game, maybe tetris. There's no such thing as luck. Losing by a build order loss is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Barely missing a scout of something is not bad luck. It's good decision making (by the enemy). Choosing to send your scouting probe in the wrong direction is not bad luck. It's bad decision making. Missing the wall off isn't bad luck. It's bad decision making. Matching up against MC isn't bad luck. It's good seeding. There is no RNG in SC2. Something either is or isn't, there's no in-between, there's no coefficient on its level of 'is'. Everything is calculated and calculable. There is an RNG in SC2. That doesn't mean the game isn't skill-based, but you can win or lose (very close) games (in very specific circumstances) based on luck. What number specifically is randomly generated? The firerate of marines or battlecruisers for example. The ingamedata just shows the average firerate of the selected unit. A unit with a fire rate, or officially, an attack delay, of 2.491846037583658365843 will shoot every 2.491846037583658365843 units of time. It's an average because the average of {2,2,2} is 2. In the beta there was some type of additional delay, I believe. No, this has been discussed quite often; there is an actual random delay that is added to or subtraced from the attack cooldown, and it differs from attack to attack. It was discussed here most recently: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353546.
Interesting. That must be why microing units so that every attack comes from A-Click feels so much faster.
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q3, cs and bw were a little bit worthy, but the current esports arent even remotely and i want to puke when even thinking about lol at the olympics.
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EPT
