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On June 04 2012 23:41 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 23:24 TGalore wrote:On June 04 2012 22:25 Figgy wrote:
I did dick all in high school. and I absolutely deserved to pass.
I literally showed up for maybe 10 classes of my Advanced Calculus math in grade 12 and still got through easily. I only showed up for test days and my exams. I passed with a 50 on the dot. (I skipped my final exam knowing I already had the 50) I'd already taken advanced Calculus prior to grade 11 and knew all the work to begin with.
I literally aced every test, nothing below 95%. I could answer any question, solve any proof, name and explain any equation in the grade 12 books. But I'm at the bottom of the passing class, why? Because school doesn't reward intelligence. AT ALL. Almost all of your grade in school is gruntwork.
No matter how much of what they are already teaching you already know, you are still forced to do hours upon hours of work OUTSIDE of school to have grades that are sufficient. Valuable time that could be learned doing other things.
The problem is not "incompletes", the problem is the bullshit called homework that especially high schools still force kids to do. If it can't be done during class, it shouldn't be done. A lot of students from poorer families also have to work through their high school years which can leave them almost no spare time to themselves, and can cause the less intelligent students to simply give up. Hence the large amount of drop-outs.
If the school policies nowadays are trying to fix that with "incompletes" so that smart students who don't want to deal with absolute BS at certain times during the year yet are still smarter than everyone by a longshot, then I'm all for it. Teachers like this need to be suspended.
As a high school teacher, this post makes me laugh. The sense of entitlement and level of conceit (and hypocrisy) here is ludicrous. School absolutely does reward intelligence - or as I would define it, mastery of material. As educators, we have to hold ourselves accountable for making sure those that pass have enough facility with the subject matter to succeed at the next level of study in that discipline. That's how you were able to pass - though in my school you would have failed, and deservedly so. Why? Well... It also, as it should, rewards effort. As educators, we are also responsible for preparing our students for lives beyond being in school and developing habits that will help you succeed in a job. Guess what? If you skip a day of work, you're probably going to get fired. You're going to have to work beyond your scheduled hours too. You're going to have to prepare for work outside of the workplace. If you don't do these things, then you're probably going to lose your job bceause you're costing your employer money. Employers keep the guy who works hard all day even if he's not the smartest and lay off the guy who's very talented but lazy. Lastly, we as educators are responsible for holding students accountable for their actions, because the adult world does that too. You chose to skip, you chose to blow off homework, you knew the consequences, and now you're complaining about what happened to you because of YOUR actions that you consciously performed? Ha. Sorry, you don't even know the meaning of a hard day's work and having no spare time to yourself. Life and work doesn't stop just because you don't want to deal with the BS - you have to, even if you don't want to. There's a lot more to life than knowledge, and you've got a lot more to learn than you think. Look, I understand that you need to work with a lot of students and you need rules that work for the majority of the students not just some individuals. But even if you think there's no easy way to solve the problem you have to admit that there is a problem. The system is often wasteful. In this case it was wasteful with the poster's time and effort. Don't say it's right, because it isn't. So yes, if a kid already has mastery of some material they should absolutely be allowed to prove it and skip the class. If you're worried about retention make them pass 3 exams 1 month apart. Cut out the lame excuses including the "this is how the real world works too" part. Sure, sometimes you just need to work within very inefficient systems and kids need to learn how to do that too. But more importantly, they should learn to fight waste and indifference whenever they can.
You're talking about something else entirely. If a student shouldn't be in that class because he's at a higher level, then that's a problem with where he's placed, not with how the teacher is conducting his class or grading.
However, if he's in the class and not following the rules and expectations of the class, then he deserves to fail. I do not have to admit that there is a problem, because in this case, there isn't one, and I will say it's right, because it is. There isn't anything wrong with getting the proper, anticipated, and expected consequence for an intentional action. If it were otherwise, then in Starcraft, the perceived "better" player would beat their opponent every single game - that's like saying "Oh, we'll allow MMA a walk over his opponent because his opponent has no chance, and he should get by on his skill and knowledge without having to sit down at the computer and play the game." Call it lame if you want, but that really is how the "real world" works. If your company tells you that you will lose your job if you don't show up for a day of work, and you don't show up for a day of work without any excuse other than you feel like you're above the work being tasked to you, then do you really think you shouldn't lose your job?
You also mentioned rules working for the majority of students. There's a difference between a rule and a style, and as a teacher, it's my job to incorporate as many different teaching techniques as often as possible in order to sufficiently address the diversity of learning styles in my classroom. There's nothing in my job that says I should make rules different for students based on how smart they think they are. You simply cannot apply rules differently - that's like sentencing two people differently for the same crime. It would be unjust to those who follow them.
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On June 04 2012 23:44 red_b wrote:
btw TGalore you should consider a different job. I work as long as it takes me to finish what I am doing. Even more telling is my father, a neurologist, who just comes home when he is done doing what he has to do. If he does it faster because he is simply smarter than the next person who would theoretically do his job, then he doesnt have to work as long.
I get that being a teacher sucks and kids seem entitled, but there are some that deserve to be. You will have kids who are smarter than you, and your attitude seems vindictive rather than helpful.
I love my job, and moreover, the feedback I get from my students every year tells me that I'm doing the right thing in the right place. It doesn't suck. I work 90 hour weeks sometimes, and it still doesn't suck.
The ones that do not do well in my classes know exactly why they do not and own up to it when they slack off or do not put their full effort into something. That, I think, speaks volumes to their character and shows that they're much better people than the above posters who want things that they are not willing to work for.
You can't compare two jobs like a neurologist and a teacher. I know that I have to do more work out of the classroom than other professions do and I'm fine with that because I think I'm very lucky to have a job focused on improving people's lives rather than just making money.
By the way, you should also ask your dad if he had to study outside of his classes or internships during medical school, or if his school handed him his doctorate simply because he was smart.
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On June 05 2012 03:46 TGalore wrote:
You're talking about something else entirely. If a student shouldn't be in that class because he's at a higher level, then that's a problem with where he's placed, not with how the teacher is conducting his class or grading.
However, if he's in the class and not following the rules and expectations of the class, then he deserves to fail. I do not have to admit that there is a problem, because in this case, there isn't one, and I will say it's right, because it is. There isn't anything wrong with getting the proper, anticipated, and expected consequence for an intentional action. If it were otherwise, then in Starcraft, the perceived "better" player would beat their opponent every single game - that's like saying "Oh, we'll allow MMA a walk over his opponent because his opponent has no chance, and he should get by on his skill and knowledge without having to sit down at the computer and play the game." Call it lame if you want, but that really is how the "real world" works. If your company tells you that you will lose your job if you don't show up for a day of work, and you don't show up for a day of work without any excuse other than you feel like you're above the work being tasked to you, then do you really think you shouldn't lose your job?
You also mentioned rules working for the majority of students. There's a difference between a rule and a style, and as a teacher, it's my job to incorporate as many different teaching techniques as often as possible in order to sufficiently address the diversity of learning styles in my classroom. There's nothing in my job that says I should make rules different for students based on how smart they think they are. You simply cannot apply rules differently - that's like sentencing two people differently for the same crime. It would be unjust to those who follow them.
Well, IMHO that's the thing - a top section of the students will always have a 'problem with placement'. Specially with systems that don't allow skipping school years, etc. As far as Latvia goes, I cut one year in grade school + started a year early, but there was no such option after that. Wish I could cut at least a few more.
Like I said before, it is similar to tying a high masters player to a chair and making him watch gold league streams for 12 years. That's neither fun nor productive. There either needs to be a way to get an extra challenge, or a shortcut...some of my favorite teachers include those who'd provide custom homework when asked.
As far as enforcing rules go - in this case, if you go with a custom approach, those who are average will feel unjust. If you rule everything the same, then those who are talented and those who struggle will feel unjust.
Rewarding effort is great, but under-appreciating talent/skill and forcing effort where it is not needed; that's not very good. The student who aces every single test probably does a lot of things that are connected to the subject in his free time, on his own will. Of course, initially teacher cannot know who is skilled and who isn't, but it doesn't take long to find out.
Now, for the later-in-life argument, I call bs on the whole issue. Usually you choose your job and field, and even if you make a bad choice, there are opportunities to switch both. It is much easier to handle grunt work, if it was your choice in the first place that got you there, if you are motivated. It is hard to be motivated when tied to a chair. Besides, if it is a good job, there is an option to do the grunt work extra careful, or add something to it; show initiative, and eventually the effort pays off. You can't get more than A for your useless revision gruntwork grade, and grades aren't all that useful anyway(country depended ofc) >.<
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Suspended for giving zeroes? That's some fucking bullshit.
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On June 05 2012 03:46 TGalore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 23:41 hypercube wrote:On June 04 2012 23:24 TGalore wrote:On June 04 2012 22:25 Figgy wrote:
I did dick all in high school. and I absolutely deserved to pass.
I literally showed up for maybe 10 classes of my Advanced Calculus math in grade 12 and still got through easily. I only showed up for test days and my exams. I passed with a 50 on the dot. (I skipped my final exam knowing I already had the 50) I'd already taken advanced Calculus prior to grade 11 and knew all the work to begin with.
I literally aced every test, nothing below 95%. I could answer any question, solve any proof, name and explain any equation in the grade 12 books. But I'm at the bottom of the passing class, why? Because school doesn't reward intelligence. AT ALL. Almost all of your grade in school is gruntwork.
No matter how much of what they are already teaching you already know, you are still forced to do hours upon hours of work OUTSIDE of school to have grades that are sufficient. Valuable time that could be learned doing other things.
The problem is not "incompletes", the problem is the bullshit called homework that especially high schools still force kids to do. If it can't be done during class, it shouldn't be done. A lot of students from poorer families also have to work through their high school years which can leave them almost no spare time to themselves, and can cause the less intelligent students to simply give up. Hence the large amount of drop-outs.
If the school policies nowadays are trying to fix that with "incompletes" so that smart students who don't want to deal with absolute BS at certain times during the year yet are still smarter than everyone by a longshot, then I'm all for it. Teachers like this need to be suspended.
As a high school teacher, this post makes me laugh. The sense of entitlement and level of conceit (and hypocrisy) here is ludicrous. School absolutely does reward intelligence - or as I would define it, mastery of material. As educators, we have to hold ourselves accountable for making sure those that pass have enough facility with the subject matter to succeed at the next level of study in that discipline. That's how you were able to pass - though in my school you would have failed, and deservedly so. Why? Well... It also, as it should, rewards effort. As educators, we are also responsible for preparing our students for lives beyond being in school and developing habits that will help you succeed in a job. Guess what? If you skip a day of work, you're probably going to get fired. You're going to have to work beyond your scheduled hours too. You're going to have to prepare for work outside of the workplace. If you don't do these things, then you're probably going to lose your job bceause you're costing your employer money. Employers keep the guy who works hard all day even if he's not the smartest and lay off the guy who's very talented but lazy. Lastly, we as educators are responsible for holding students accountable for their actions, because the adult world does that too. You chose to skip, you chose to blow off homework, you knew the consequences, and now you're complaining about what happened to you because of YOUR actions that you consciously performed? Ha. Sorry, you don't even know the meaning of a hard day's work and having no spare time to yourself. Life and work doesn't stop just because you don't want to deal with the BS - you have to, even if you don't want to. There's a lot more to life than knowledge, and you've got a lot more to learn than you think. Look, I understand that you need to work with a lot of students and you need rules that work for the majority of the students not just some individuals. But even if you think there's no easy way to solve the problem you have to admit that there is a problem. The system is often wasteful. In this case it was wasteful with the poster's time and effort. Don't say it's right, because it isn't. So yes, if a kid already has mastery of some material they should absolutely be allowed to prove it and skip the class. If you're worried about retention make them pass 3 exams 1 month apart. Cut out the lame excuses including the "this is how the real world works too" part. Sure, sometimes you just need to work within very inefficient systems and kids need to learn how to do that too. But more importantly, they should learn to fight waste and indifference whenever they can. You're talking about something else entirely. If a student shouldn't be in that class because he's at a higher level, then that's a problem with where he's placed, not with how the teacher is conducting his class or grading.
Cool. It's a problem with where he's placed. It's still a problem and the main one at that. Yet you decide to focus on the fact that he did the bare minimum to pass. Which might also be a problem or it might have been the right call on his part. Hard to say without knowing more about the situation.
However, if he's in the class and not following the rules and expectations of the class, then he deserves to fail. I do not have to admit that there is a problem, because in this case, there isn't one, and I will say it's right, because it is. There isn't anything wrong with getting the proper, anticipated, and expected consequence for an intentional action. If it were otherwise, then in Starcraft, the perceived "better" player would beat their opponent every single game - that's like saying "Oh, we'll allow MMA a walk over his opponent because his opponent has no chance, and he should get by on his skill and knowledge without having to sit down at the computer and play the game." Call it lame if you want, but that really is how the "real world" works. If your company tells you that you will lose your job if you don't show up for a day of work, and you don't show up for a day of work without any excuse other than you feel like you're above the work being tasked to you, then do you really think you shouldn't lose your job?
So many things wrong with this paragraph I don't even know where to start. So I'll give my main objection:
You are not the students' boss. You don't get to waste their time and tell them: this is how it is, do it or you're fired.
Second, just because you have to do what your boss told you (within reason) it doesn't mean his decision wasn't dumb. You can't escape criticism by saying people in positions of authority make dumb decisions all the time.
You also mentioned rules working for the majority of students. There's a difference between a rule and a style, and as a teacher, it's my job to incorporate as many different teaching techniques as often as possible in order to sufficiently address the diversity of learning styles in my classroom. There's nothing in my job that says I should make rules different for students based on how smart they think they are. You simply cannot apply rules differently - that's like sentencing two people differently for the same crime. It would be unjust to those who follow them.
I never said rules should be applied differently for different people. But you have to recognize when the rules don't work for some people. That's the first step in designing better rules.
I don't think people should ignore dumb rules. But I do think they should be changed. As far as I understand you are defending dumb rules with the justification that there are dumb rules everywhere and kids might as well get used to that in school.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
I'm very impressed you fellow TLers have managed to write 22 pages of pointless rambling about a completely undecidable problem. Some people here should probably start working on the Millenium Prize problems. That will be plenty of fun for everyone.
Did I say undecidable ? Well, OP, you provide us with two sources, none of which bothered giving us a detailed copy of any of the said assignments. Yet the question simply boils down to knowing whether said assignments are useful to the pupils and enable them to learn more physics, or are a completely waste of time designed to occupy their free time, being too easy and asking for mounts of tedious and boring explanations about tedious and boring things. It is entirely impossible to condemn or praise the teacher without knowing that.
It may be such a thing has been posted in the course of those lengthy 22 pages, which I have not read for the reason I just explained ; in that case I would advise the OP to edit his post so everyone can see it and reflect (although I doubt that would happen).
Statistically, physics and chemistry assignments in high school are a useless chore (at least in my country but I haven't heard the high school science level in the US was higher ), so it's likely the teacher is deeply wrong, but I wouldn't blame anyone without certainty.
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I feel like I was definitely one of those students that stopped doing homework because I was "too smart". In the regular classes I got mostly C's. Then in my junior year of high school they opened up a bunch of AP classes, and I signed up for all of them and got straight A's. If the course material wasn't challenging I was unmotivated. And no amount of telling me "it's important for your future" would have motivated me, because something stupid doesn't suddenly become interesting simply because of some distant promise.
I am just glad teamliquid doesn't run things. I've heard many people on this forum suggest that schools should cut AP programs because they don't benefit the "majority" of students. Utilitarian scum in my opinion.
I've always seeked out the hardest professors in college for the challenge, and it is very rewarding in many ways. I would never even dream of taking a class for an "easy A".
I don't blame the professor for giving out zeros. The solution to the problem isn't to give unmotivated students a free pass to skip their assignments. The solution is to give them challenging course work, like AP classes.
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I still did all my homework in high school even though I thought it was a waste of time.
Fuck me, right?
No, I actually enjoy my $10,000 academic scholarship which I gained as a result of getting A's.
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On June 05 2012 05:22 Fourn wrote:
I still did all my homework in high school even though I thought it was a waste of time.
Fuck me, right?
No, I actually enjoy my $10,000 academic scholarship which I gained as a result of getting A's.
The fact that you did it suggests that you're lying and didn't actually think it was a waste of time.
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if you dont deserve to pass. then you shouldnt pass. american schools need to toughen the fuck up and stop letting people slide through their early formative years.
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Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:00 hypercube wrote:
You're talking about something else entirely. If a student shouldn't be in that class because he's at a higher level, then that's a problem with where he's placed, not with how the teacher is conducting his class or grading. Cool. It's a problem with where he's placed. It's still a problem and the main one at that. Yet you decide to focus on the fact that he did the bare minimum to pass. Which might also be a problem or it might have been the right call on his part. Hard to say without knowing more about the situation. Show nested quote +However, if he's in the class and not following the rules and expectations of the class, then he deserves to fail. I do not have to admit that there is a problem, because in this case, there isn't one, and I will say it's right, because it is. There isn't anything wrong with getting the proper, anticipated, and expected consequence for an intentional action. If it were otherwise, then in Starcraft, the perceived "better" player would beat their opponent every single game - that's like saying "Oh, we'll allow MMA a walk over his opponent because his opponent has no chance, and he should get by on his skill and knowledge without having to sit down at the computer and play the game." Call it lame if you want, but that really is how the "real world" works. If your company tells you that you will lose your job if you don't show up for a day of work, and you don't show up for a day of work without any excuse other than you feel like you're above the work being tasked to you, then do you really think you shouldn't lose your job? So many things wrong with this paragraph I don't even know where to start. So I'll give my main objection: You are not the students' boss. You don't get to waste their time and tell them: this is how it is, do it or you're fired. Second, just because you have to do what your boss told you (within reason) it doesn't mean his decision wasn't dumb. You can't escape criticism by saying people in positions of authority make dumb decisions all the time. Show nested quote +You also mentioned rules working for the majority of students. There's a difference between a rule and a style, and as a teacher, it's my job to incorporate as many different teaching techniques as often as possible in order to sufficiently address the diversity of learning styles in my classroom. There's nothing in my job that says I should make rules different for students based on how smart they think they are. You simply cannot apply rules differently - that's like sentencing two people differently for the same crime. It would be unjust to those who follow them. I never said rules should be applied differently for different people. But you have to recognize when the rules don't work for some people. That's the first step in designing better rules. I don't think people should ignore dumb rules. But I do think they should be changed. As far as I understand you are defending dumb rules with the justification that there are dumb rules everywhere and kids might as well get used to that in school.
A) - So you're acknowledging a possible problem with where he's placed and blaming the teacher for that when it's either the kid's fault for not earning high enough grades earlier to get into the AP classes he should be in or the student not being in the right school. Awesome. There's little more that needs to be known he said "I didn't do the work because I felt I was above it and I got penalized for it as I knew I would."
B) - Of course I'm not the kid's boss. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I think you mistook what I was saying as literal rather than drawing a comparison between the purpose of assigning the consequence to the action and how that's reflected in modern society. The educational value in high school work often isn't the content matter but more often the building of critical life skills and traits. I don't assign a paper because you need to know the symbolism of the green light in The Great Gatsby in order to live, I assign it because it's great practice for analyzing details and drawing connections.
That said, I do get to tell the kid "this is the work you need to complete, or you won't pass." If you'd like you could compare that to an employer saying "this is the work you need to complete in order to earn your paycheck."
There's a huge difference between the student doing the work and then saying to the teacher "I don't think this is helping me" and the student not doing the work and saying "I shouldn't have to work because it won't help me." There are some things that I have to do as a teacher, specific to my school, that I find not worth my time. But, the way that changing that comes about is by doing what I'm told, then talking to my boss and saying "this isn't helping me or my students because x, y, and z."
I'm not saying that dumb rules aren't worth changing (lord knows there have been plenty of those in my country's history), but what I am saying is that you don't have the authority to comment on them if you summarily dismiss them without any effort to analyze or find value in them or without having attempted to follow them.
Lastly, I'm sorry, but you ARE saying rules should be applied differently for different people. You're saying one person gets to be special and pass while everyone else has to do the hard work to pass.
And I have to add this in, because it always gets to me - nobody who isn't a doctor tells a doctor how to perform surgery, and nobody who isn't a pilot tells a pilot how to fly a plane. Why is it that so many people who have never studied or practiced education feel like they can tell teachers how to teach?
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lol, this is a joke. i remember i was in middle school in the virginia beach area and the school gave E's instead of F's.
i don't really think there is anything worth arguing on this matter. 0's, not completed, E's, whatever; students know that they did not get credit for an assignment they did not turn in.
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Man at my high school there isn't a late policy, you miss the deadline you get a zero no exceptions. You could have a dying grandmother or get hit by a bus, that assignment has to be in or you get a zero.
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I've heard a lot of teachers who now give 1s instead of 0s. The no-zero policy has very little support from the Edmonton teachers I know.
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Combine talent and hard work and you become awesome
Combine talent and no work and a lot is wasted.
A lot of it will suck, but its humbling and builds character.
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On June 05 2012 06:37 TGalore wrote:
And I have to add this in, because it always gets to me - nobody who isn't a doctor tells a doctor how to perform surgery, and nobody who isn't a pilot tells a pilot how to fly a plane. Why is it that so many people who have never studied or practiced education feel like they can tell teachers how to teach?
I don't really have time so I'll only address this. It's a point micronesia brought up too and I've been thinking about it recently. I think one problem is that "experts" are often biased or have a conflict of interest. I should not have a say in how a doctor treats their patients but I can certainly say that their relationship with drug companies shouldn't influence the treatment they prescribe. It might even make sense to restrict their options to avoid corruption.
Ideally you'd want the general public to set the goals and the "experts" to implement the policy that's the best in achieving them. But if the experts as a group have different goals they'll just set the policy that works towards their own goals rather than those of the general public.
Actually, it's often easiest to influence legislation at the "expert" level because that's where democratic oversight is weakest. We've seen this in recent IP legislation with "expert" opinions of economic damage that are clearly unfounded.
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On June 05 2012 06:37 TGalore wrote:
And I have to add this in, because it always gets to me - nobody who isn't a doctor tells a doctor how to perform surgery, and nobody who isn't a pilot tells a pilot how to fly a plane. Why is it that so many people who have never studied or practiced education feel like they can tell teachers how to teach?
Doctors and pilots have a much higher success rate?
But seriously this teacher should be given a medal and a raise not be suspended. The old saying, "if the student doesn't learn, the teacher hasn't taught" has a limit.
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Russian Federation396 Posts
On June 05 2012 04:02 TGalore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 23:44 red_b wrote:
btw TGalore you should consider a different job. I work as long as it takes me to finish what I am doing. Even more telling is my father, a neurologist, who just comes home when he is done doing what he has to do. If he does it faster because he is simply smarter than the next person who would theoretically do his job, then he doesnt have to work as long.
I get that being a teacher sucks and kids seem entitled, but there are some that deserve to be. You will have kids who are smarter than you, and your attitude seems vindictive rather than helpful. I love my job, and moreover, the feedback I get from my students every year tells me that I'm doing the right thing in the right place. It doesn't suck. I work 90 hour weeks sometimes, and it still doesn't suck. The ones that do not do well in my classes know exactly why they do not and own up to it when they slack off or do not put their full effort into something. That, I think, speaks volumes to their character and shows that they're much better people than the above posters who want things that they are not willing to work for. You can't compare two jobs like a neurologist and a teacher. I know that I have to do more work out of the classroom than other professions do and I'm fine with that because I think I'm very lucky to have a job focused on improving people's lives rather than just making money. By the way, you should also ask your dad if he had to study outside of his classes or internships during medical school, or if his school handed him his doctorate simply because he was smart.
your last paragraph is sheer poop, being a younger brother of a med school student (and hoping to gain acceptance next year myself), i can assure you there isnt a moment to waste, when people complain about how hard it is they arent joking, there is no "going out to meet new people" and getting good grades, youll probably only get past the acquaintance level the with the people u see in your classes, when your drinking coffee as you wake up, your studying, before bedtime your studying, on the bus, you will be studying. being smart will get your foot in the hallway that the door is located in, being hardworking, dedicated, focused with a never-give-up attitude is what youll need to finish, and to succeed. its saddening as a teacher you would say something so silly and immature.
and pretty much every single job focuses on improving peoples lives btw, just because your a teacher and you do it directly doesnt mean others dont do it as well
now i also have some family friends that are high school teachers, and i dont know if this same deal applies to you, but supposedly you can work for 4 years at 80% salary to get the 5th year off while getting 80% salary as well. ALSO, not to mention the 2 month 'break' teachers get every year.. and the weekends (although i understand your still grading/creating new work during this time, the students also have to study and prepare... the dedicated ones anyways.. and if you teach summer school, you only get paid more... and students do summer school as well!)
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On June 05 2012 07:39 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 06:37 TGalore wrote:
And I have to add this in, because it always gets to me - nobody who isn't a doctor tells a doctor how to perform surgery, and nobody who isn't a pilot tells a pilot how to fly a plane. Why is it that so many people who have never studied or practiced education feel like they can tell teachers how to teach? Doctors and pilots have a much higher success rate? But seriously this teacher should be given a medal and a raise not be suspended. The old saying, "if the student doesn't learn, the teacher hasn't taught" has a limit.
ive never heard that saying before, but it sounds stupid.
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I've never heard of a teacher that didn't give zeros for things not handed in ( except maybe in elementary school?). Rather weird.
Personally I think the amount of homework kids are given ad/or the amount it's worth is terrible. Kids should be given lots of school work, and some tests, and have most of their grades based on that. Homework doesn't show you've learned anything.
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EPT
