On October 09 2012 06:48 jdseemoreglass wrote: In any case, regardless of whatever consequences we can extrapolate from such a policy, we cannot escape the obvious fact that MANDATED participation in either the military or some other civic service is in fact requiring work from someone under threat of the law. I hate to use the word slavery because I think it cheapens the term, but using coercion or force to get work out of people against their will is not moral imo under any circumstance.
You may want to think about what you're saying. You are basically delegitimizing the whole concept of a draft, which I think is an essential power of the state in prosecuting industrial scale warfare.
Here is a contradiction I don't understand: Republicans hate big government. Wtf is more big government than a draft? You'll be damned if you have to pay for food stamps, but you're totally OK with 18 year olds being shipped off to fight and kill against their will?
I like how your response to the guy explaining the context and details of Romney's positions is to simply repeat your attack. For example, Romney wants to cut tax rates but limit deductions and exemptions to get a fairer, simpler, more honest, more competitive tax code and everyone on the left just continues chanting "tax cuts for millionaires".
Yeah, except, no. While you can attempt to spin your way out of the tax cut flip-flop, there's no breaking out of the other blatant flip-flops.
Teachers - the difference is between more and better teachers in a better education system (a la Romney) compared to simply spending more money on what we have now (a la Wisconsin and Chicago's failed teacher union gambits)
The health care issue as I understand it and explained earlier, he supports being able to change insurance with pre-existing conditions.
I like how your response to the guy explaining the context and details of Romney's positions is to simply repeat your attack. For example, Romney wants to cut tax rates but limit deductions and exemptions to get a fairer, simpler, more honest, more competitive tax code and everyone on the left just continues chanting "tax cuts for millionaires".
Yeah, except, no. While you can attempt to spin your way out of the tax cut flip-flop, there's no breaking out of the other blatant flip-flops.
Teachers - the difference is between more and better teachers in a better education system (a la Romney) compared to simply spending more money on what we have now (a la Wisconsin and Chicago's failed teacher union gambits)
The health care issue as I understand it and explained earlier, he supports being able to change insurance with pre-existing conditions.
1. Lol at that graph proving anything.
2. We agree. Under Romney's plan you cannot get health insurance with a pre-existing condition.
On October 09 2012 06:48 jdseemoreglass wrote: In any case, regardless of whatever consequences we can extrapolate from such a policy, we cannot escape the obvious fact that MANDATED participation in either the military or some other civic service is in fact requiring work from someone under threat of the law. I hate to use the word slavery because I think it cheapens the term, but using coercion or force to get work out of people against their will is not moral imo under any circumstance.
You may want to think about what you're saying. You are basically delegitimizing the whole concept of a draft, which I think is an essential power of the state in prosecuting industrial scale warfare.
Here is a contradiction I don't understand: Republicans hate big government. Wtf is more big government than a draft? You'll be damned if you have to pay for food stamps, but you're totally OK with 18 year olds being shipped off to fight and kill against their will?
Neither conservatives nor liberals are consistent in their principles. If you are consistent in your principles, you are a nutjob. It's a lose/lose proposition unfortunately.
Pew's polls in the past have tended to favor Obama just as Rasmussen's tend to favor Romney because of their respective methodologies.
New Pew Poll done after the debate shows Romney making huge gains in almost every category, but dominating among independents and also strong on the Economy, Jobs, being the Candidate of New Ideas, and on the Deficit. Obama still ahead on foreign policy.
Some images:
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
On October 09 2012 01:25 xDaunt wrote: Also, for those who haven't seen what has become mandatory viewing during these elections, SNL's take on the debate:
Honestly, out of all the punditry and cartwheeling coming out of the media to explain Obama's lackluster performance, I find the explanation that he was bummed out about forgetting his anniversary the most plausible
Strangely enough, but I had (Canadian) Thanksgiving with some of my American in-laws, and I was surprised that they didn't think Obama's performance was that bad at all. It was boring, but not bad. But they are both jaded by politics and politicians in general. They perceived Obama as being bored and Romney being a try-hard salesman.
One of my in-laws, a Christian who voted for Bush twice, is probably going to vote for Obama this year, just because he think Obama genuinely cares about people, while Romney is just faking it to win.
I just have a feeling that in the end, the campaign's policies and positions will move so close together that it will simply be a matter of people voting for who they like more. So I'm predicting Obama barely, barely winning.
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
I think the bump will decrease, but it will be a dead, dead heat.
2 more debates and I actually think that Obama will not pull out a win in either of them. He won't do as bad as he did in his first, but for all the good speeches he has done, he has never actually been a good debater and Romney has shown that he has honed his debate skills over the last few years.
If Mitt Romney wins, I think you will be able to credit the debates.
On October 09 2012 06:48 jdseemoreglass wrote: In any case, regardless of whatever consequences we can extrapolate from such a policy, we cannot escape the obvious fact that MANDATED participation in either the military or some other civic service is in fact requiring work from someone under threat of the law. I hate to use the word slavery because I think it cheapens the term, but using coercion or force to get work out of people against their will is not moral imo under any circumstance.
You may want to think about what you're saying. You are basically delegitimizing the whole concept of a draft, which I think is an essential power of the state in prosecuting industrial scale warfare.
Here is a contradiction I don't understand: Republicans hate big government. Wtf is more big government than a draft? You'll be damned if you have to pay for food stamps, but you're totally OK with 18 year olds being shipped off to fight and kill against their will?
Neither conservatives nor liberals are consistent in their principles. If you are consistent in your principles, you are a nutjob. It's a lose/lose proposition unfortunately.
Huh? I don't know what you mean. If you're inconsistent in your principles, then by that means you're a nutjob. It actually means you don't make sense and you contradict yourself.
Generally, conservatives are for small government economically and socially authoritarian (though most young conservatives aren't). I'm honestly confused by xDaunt's position because I thought he was a libertarian, and the draft might be the most un-libertarian thing I've ever heard. Though in general, xDaunt acts a lot more hawkish than I've seen from other libertarians I know.
However, the one thing we can all agree on is that the government is totally goddamn corrupt and we need to money out of politics before we can take any of our politicians seriously.
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
I think the bump will decrease, but it will be a dead, dead heat.
2 more debates and I actually think that Obama will not pull out a win in either of them. He won't do as bad as he did in his first, but for all the good speeches he has done, he has never actually been a good debater and Romney has shown that he has honed his debate skills over the last few years.
If Mitt Romney wins, I think you will be able to credit the debates.
No argument here. I think the Obama campaign really underestimated the importance of the first debate, in this era, where public opinion can be changed over night by social and 24-h news media.
Cable news and the internet has irreversibly changed presidential politics. I don't know how the hell American politicians have time to actually govern in this day in age.
Pew's polls in the past have tended to favor Obama just as Rasmussen's tend to favor Romney because of their respective methodologies.
New Pew Poll done after the debate shows Romney making huge gains in almost every category, but dominating among independents and also strong on the Economy, Jobs, being the Candidate of New Ideas, and on the Deficit. Obama still ahead on foreign policy.
Some images:
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
That poll has a +5 advantage to republicans in the sample size, which I believe is in line with Rasmussen's voter composition numbers. Goes to show that the samples matter (duh).
So, let me ask the obvious: are we really going to believe that much has changed over the past couple weeks or is it more likely that the previous polls with large democrat samples were bullshit?
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
I think the bump will decrease, but it will be a dead, dead heat.
2 more debates and I actually think that Obama will not pull out a win in either of them. He won't do as bad as he did in his first, but for all the good speeches he has done, he has never actually been a good debater and Romney has shown that he has honed his debate skills over the last few years.
If Mitt Romney wins, I think you will be able to credit the debates.
Cable news and the internet has irreversibly changed presidential politics. I don't know how the hell American politicians have time to actually govern in this day in age.
Lots and lots of delegating of responsibility. I agree though. I do feel sorry for any president (not just Obama) who is now forced to basically campaign with the majority of his time starting 1-2 years before his next election. That basically gives him 2 years to govern without having to campaign. That being said the excuse I've heard pundits give for Obama's poor performance that "Obama had a country to lead so he was too busy to prepare to debate" is a lame excuse because he is hardly the first president to have to deal with this AND the fact that he was President for 4 years gives him instant knowledge that the other person has to study to learn.
I do think that Obama had become somewhat overconfident before the debate. And possibly a little bit exhausted. She sure looked it.
On October 09 2012 08:16 Souma wrote: Comparing posting history is a necessary endeavor when it comes to moderating.
Is their a guide somewhere on how I get to be like the lefties around here who can tell people "Fuck you" with impunity?
Well, that's your first mistake right there. I don't say "Fuck you" with impunity. I say it when someone responds to a perfectly reasonable post by misinterpreting it and lazily accusing me of being some kind of commie hippie dirtbag.
Don't make false assumptions about other people's character or positions. Don't make strawman arguments, or insult people's intelligence. Don't argue for the sake of arguing.
Pew's polls in the past have tended to favor Obama just as Rasmussen's tend to favor Romney because of their respective methodologies.
New Pew Poll done after the debate shows Romney making huge gains in almost every category, but dominating among independents and also strong on the Economy, Jobs, being the Candidate of New Ideas, and on the Deficit. Obama still ahead on foreign policy.
Some images:
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
That poll has a +5 advantage to republicans in the sample size, which I believe is in line with Rasmussen's voter composition numbers. Goes to show that the samples matter (duh).
So, let me ask the obvious: are we really going to believe that much has changed over the past couple weeks or is it more likely that the previous polls with large democrat samples were bullshit?
Sampling by party is dumb as fuck, the most likely explanation is that more people tell posters they identify as Republican after the debate.
On October 09 2012 06:48 jdseemoreglass wrote: In any case, regardless of whatever consequences we can extrapolate from such a policy, we cannot escape the obvious fact that MANDATED participation in either the military or some other civic service is in fact requiring work from someone under threat of the law. I hate to use the word slavery because I think it cheapens the term, but using coercion or force to get work out of people against their will is not moral imo under any circumstance.
You may want to think about what you're saying. You are basically delegitimizing the whole concept of a draft, which I think is an essential power of the state in prosecuting industrial scale warfare.
Here is a contradiction I don't understand: Republicans hate big government. Wtf is more big government than a draft? You'll be damned if you have to pay for food stamps, but you're totally OK with 18 year olds being shipped off to fight and kill against their will?
First, I don't know any conservatives today who want a military draft. It is generally a ploy by liberals to make people hate the military. Second, in times past conservatives would hate a draft and would hate wars but those would be a better alternative to letting Nazis and Communists taking over countries.
Pew's polls in the past have tended to favor Obama just as Rasmussen's tend to favor Romney because of their respective methodologies.
New Pew Poll done after the debate shows Romney making huge gains in almost every category, but dominating among independents and also strong on the Economy, Jobs, being the Candidate of New Ideas, and on the Deficit. Obama still ahead on foreign policy.
Some images:
Question is, is this a permanent new trend or just a temporary bump...
That poll has a +5 advantage to republicans in the sample size, which I believe is in line with Rasmussen's voter composition numbers. Goes to show that the samples matter (duh).
So, let me ask the obvious: are we really going to believe that much has changed over the past couple weeks or is it more likely that the previous polls with large democrat samples were bullshit?
Imo it shows how much weight people place on the debate - which is honestly saddening because it was a mass exchange of BS, half truths and flip-flops. Of which, I personally thought Romney was a much worse culprit than Obama.
On October 09 2012 06:48 jdseemoreglass wrote: In any case, regardless of whatever consequences we can extrapolate from such a policy, we cannot escape the obvious fact that MANDATED participation in either the military or some other civic service is in fact requiring work from someone under threat of the law. I hate to use the word slavery because I think it cheapens the term, but using coercion or force to get work out of people against their will is not moral imo under any circumstance.
You may want to think about what you're saying. You are basically delegitimizing the whole concept of a draft, which I think is an essential power of the state in prosecuting industrial scale warfare.
Here is a contradiction I don't understand: Republicans hate big government. Wtf is more big government than a draft? You'll be damned if you have to pay for food stamps, but you're totally OK with 18 year olds being shipped off to fight and kill against their will?
this idea that republicans hate big government is a huge lie. Both sides love big government, we just love different parts of the government to be big
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