EPTPresident Obama Re-Elected - Page 348
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Falling
Canada11583 Posts
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Falling
Canada11583 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:05 Defacer wrote: US media has really turned the election into a reality show. That takes two years to conclude. That's what really gets me and I'm sure I've said this before. US is supposed to be the stalwart, last hope of the world, defender of small government. But it takes 2 years (counting primaries) and hundreds of millions of dollars to change governments. The election cycle overlaps half of the actual president's term. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:56 Defacer wrote: He doesn't even to have the courage to release his tax returns! Or discuss his record at Bain! Or keep his gay foreign policy advisor! Because these are much more important than getting the economy going for the millions of unemployed across the country. Bain, tax returns, all that is bullshit brought up by the left to have anything other than the economy and unemployment to talk about. What is more important to college grads to be ? What Mitt Romney invests in and what % of income taxes he pays (which is a complete bullshit argument anyways) or whether they can get a job using their degree when they graduate or if they have to flip burgers ? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:02 Defacer wrote: Oh yeah, better sex education and contraception also lowers all those unwanted pregnancies too. A REAL Christian would support socialized medicine if they cared about the lives and welfare of children from the moment of inception. It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. The GOP supports a dog-eat-dog style of civilization without welfare or a sense of patriotism. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:13 Kaitlin wrote: Because these are much more important than getting the economy going for the millions of unemployed across the country. Bain, tax returns, all that is bullshit brought up by the left to have anything other than the economy and unemployment to talk about. What is more important to college grads to be ? What Mitt Romney invests in and what % of income taxes he pays (which is a complete bullshit argument anyways) or whether they can get a job using their degree when they graduate or if they have to flip burgers ? Well, when the "right" claims Romney is such a good businessman when he's hiding such a great deal of financial/business information, you lose the ability to make the claim that he'll solve the economy. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:25 BlackPanther wrote: It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. The GOP supports a dog-eat-dog style of civilization without welfare or a sense of patriotism. Not really. The GOP isn't against welfare, it's against large-scale GOVERNMENT welfare programs. I spent a year working for a homeless shelter that was funded by a Catholic church (I'm not a religious person). This shelter took care of people that even government programs couldn't help. The argument is that government programs are notoriously inefficient at providing locally tailored solutions in the same manner a community can. And it's the correct argument. I decided to go to law school and get involved with politics because I saw how shitty our system currently is. | ||
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Falling
Canada11583 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:25 BlackPanther wrote: It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. The GOP supports a dog-eat-dog style of civilization without welfare or a sense of patriotism. Well I think a bunch see the church and volunteer charities as better form of welfare. But what really doesn't make sense is these supposed GOP Christians that also tout Rand. Even ignoring her athiesm, her defence of selfishness was such that even Hitchens felt was completely unnecessary. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:13 Kaitlin wrote: Because these are much more important than getting the economy going for the millions of unemployed across the country. Bain, tax returns, all that is bullshit brought up by the left to have anything other than the economy and unemployment to talk about. What is more important to college grads to be ? What Mitt Romney invests in and what % of income taxes he pays (which is a complete bullshit argument anyways) or whether they can get a job using their degree when they graduate or if they have to flip burgers ? But isn't his prior business experience what helps people determine if hes competent enough to fix the economy. He claims that his business success means he has the knowledge to fix our country's problems but he won't disclose details regarding how he became rich and successful. The reason he isn't revealing anything is because the things he did make him the antithesis of who Americans want as their president. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:25 BlackPanther wrote: It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. The GOP supports a dog-eat-dog style of civilization without welfare or a sense of patriotism. Damn. Are you sure that you worked for a republican? Christian conservatives believe in charity and local communities taking care of their own. They find it unnecessary and offensive that bureaucratics from Washington interfere in these matters. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On August 29 2012 11:59 kwizach wrote: You realize the stats you posted prove Defacer's point, right? You realize the stats I posted test your ability to think? And you failed? | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:34 xDaunt wrote: Damn. Are you sure that you worked for a republican? Christian conservatives believe in charity and local communities taking care of their own. They find it unnecessary and offensive that bureaucratics from Washington interfere in these matters. I think you're confusing two different people. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:30 BluePanther wrote: Not really. The GOP isn't against welfare, it's against large-scale GOVERNMENT welfare programs. I spent a year working for a homeless shelter that was funded by a Catholic church (I'm not a religious person). This shelter took care of people that even government programs couldn't help. The argument is that government programs are notoriously inefficient at providing locally tailored solutions in the same manner a community can. And it's the correct argument. I decided to go to law school and get involved with politics because I saw how shitty our system currently is. The problem is that local churches and charities don't have near the available funding or infrastructure to properly address the needs of masses. Many larger charities are also notorious for being as wasteful if not more so than the government. The amount of donation money that actually goes to the cause is no where near as much as people believe. And I'm not just talking about homeless shelters. I'm talking social security and medicare / medicaid as well. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:25 BlackPanther wrote: I dont know a single person who suggests we dont give aid to charity. Charity is demonstrably better dollar for dollar, without the immorality of robbing people to "help others". It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. The GOP supports a dog-eat-dog style of civilization without welfare or a sense of patriotism. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:25 BlackPanther wrote: It's ironic that the GOP is both Christian and anti-welfare. Jesus was all about assisting those who need help and promoting a common community amount men. Little known fact, Jesus didn't feed the poor and hungry. He gave them food stamps. He didn't heal the sick. He put the government in charge of medicine. The path to Heaven is to just vote Democrats and let some bureaucrat deal with people who have problems. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:37 dvorakftw wrote: You realize the stats I posted test your ability to think? And you failed? The relevant column is the "abortions per 1000" column. In case you did not notice, the number is higher for the US than for any of the four other countries listed. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:30 Falling wrote: But what really doesn't make sense is these supposed GOP Christians that also tout Rand. Even ignoring her athiesm, her defence of selfishness was such that even Hitchens felt was completely unnecessary. I think you're taking a small minority of people and saying "Ta-Da! I've now stereotyped 100 million people! My point has been proven." | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
{snip} I believe we have become paralyzed by our desire to be loved. Our founding fathers had the wisdom to know that social acceptance and popularity is fleeting and that this country's principles needed to be rooted in strengths greater than the passions and emotions of the times. Our leaders today have decided it is more important to be popular, to do what is easy and say "yes," rather than to say no when "no" is what's required. In recent years, we as a country have too often chosen the same path. It's been easy for our leaders to say not us, and not now, in taking on the tough issues. And we've stood silently by and let them get away with it. But tonight, I say enough. I say, together, let's make a much different choice. Tonight, we are speaking up for ourselves and stepping up. We are beginning to do what is right and what is necessary to make our country great again. We are demanding that our leaders stop tearing each other down, and work together to take action on the big things facing America. Tonight, we choose respect over love. We are not afraid. We are taking our country back. Earlier in this thread, we talked about adhering to ancient concepts of protected rights of people from legislation from the government, and where stood when the same government wants to abridge some to help more with money for health care and prescription drugs. That compelling what insurance companies must cover might be the salvation of many for the freedoms of some. Christie makes the comparison between love and respect, a gushing popularity for the best of intentions, damn the means. Respect citizens' rights to forgo insurance purchase, instead of extending the loving hand of government to pull everyone in, with the young subsidizing the old. Social acceptance demands this and that for every social issue under the sun. Respect says not to just pass laws banning behavior you think heartless, and taxing life choices that harm themselves. Pretty powerful stuff. I don't think many on the left will find it resonating with what they believe. But every conservative heart was pounding, as Christie & Walker were perhaps the 2 most anticipated speakers at convention. I know because this was the challenge in New Jersey. When I came into office, I could continue on the same path that led to wealth, jobs and people leaving the state or I could do the job the people elected me to do - to do the big things. There were those who said it couldn't be done. The problems were too big, too politically charged, too broken to fix. But we were on a path we could no longer afford to follow. They said it was impossible to cut taxes in a state where taxes were raised 115 times in eight years. That it was impossible to balance a budget at the same time, with an $11 billion deficit. Three years later, we have three balanced budgets with lower taxes. We did it. They said it was impossible to touch the third rail of politics. To take on the public sector unions and to reform a pension and health benefit system that was headed to bankruptcy. With bipartisan leadership we saved taxpayers $132 billion over 30 years and saved retirees their pension. We did it. They said it was impossible to speak the truth to the teachers union. They were just too powerful. Real teacher tenure reform that demands accountability and ends the guarantee of a job for life regardless of performance would never happen. For the first time in 100 years with bipartisan support, we did it. The disciples of yesterday's politics underestimated the will of the people. They assumed our people were selfish; that when told of the difficult problems, tough choices and complicated solutions, they would simply turn their backs, that they would decide it was every man for himself. Instead, the people of New Jersey stepped up and shared in the sacrifice. They rewarded politicians who led instead of politicians who pandered. We shouldn't be surprised. He shares with Gov Walker the the respect of being that one guy willing to take on every politically powerful group that threatened, continually, bankruptcy and statism. Heck, I hope Romney was listening real good! That there are a few leaders out there that led on principles and received their reward whilst still in office. Not panderers that just stage a popularity contest for agenda items and push every one that's under 50% public support or 90% party support to the back burner. There are ideas proven to be right time and time again, but the political cost for implementing them is considered too high from every analyst you could ask. Again, I hope Romney was listening. Plenty of us are willing to overlook his past missteps to get Obama out of office and start reversing his policies. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On August 29 2012 12:34 xDaunt wrote: Damn. Are you sure that you worked for a republican? Christian conservatives believe in charity and local communities taking care of their own. They find it unnecessary and offensive that bureaucratics from Washington interfere in these matters. Most homeless shelters and clinics are state and county run with financial assistance from the federal government. The "bureaucrats" in Washington don't run or interfere with much of anything. Why is it offensive that the government assists its citizens anyway? | ||
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