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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 1008

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
October 24 2012 02:22 GMT
#20141
On October 24 2012 11:18 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:13 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:03 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:55 Swazi Spring wrote:
America is a federation, not a unitary state. The president should represent all of the states equally. How would you feel if the leaders of the EU only cared about Germany?


Wrong.

If this were true, Federal law would not supersede state law..it would be the reverse. America has not been a confederation since the decade after the Revolutionary war ended.

Where did I say America was a confederacy?


Either way, America's president does represent all Americans equally, as all federal laws and regulations affect all Americans equally. The Federal legislative, judicial, and executive powers cannot enact statutes that affect only one part of the country, which is by design of the constitution.

As other people here said, the president leads the STATES. It's bad enough the lefties passed the 17th Amendment, a "popular vote" would put the final nail in the coffin for federalism in America.


The Supreme Court has ruled that the power of the federal government is given by the people and not the states. I happen to agree with this interpretation of the Constitution.
Writer
Poorlilrich
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia262 Posts
October 24 2012 02:24 GMT
#20142
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

Most of you are missing the point of the 3rd debate. Romney went large, Obama small. He had to come across as more of a Reagan than Bush (W), i.e. dovish over hawkish. He had to demonstrate knowledge of the middle east and other regions like China, which the incumbent generally has an advantage on, and I think he did. So he let Obama get in a few zingers about bayonets and whatnot, but no one is going to care about it. Foreign policy in general is not high in people's agenda, the economy is, which Romney also tied back to extensively.

Interestingly he did not go after the Libya scandal, probably because he knew Obama would have some retort involving the Rose Garden speech, so why get into it? Anyone who has been following it knows the administration has tried to cover it up. Ultimately I thought Romney looked the more presidential, while Obama did have his moments he went on the attack far too often and came across petty. Case in point, "while I was putting sanctions on Iran you were investing in a company outsourcing jobs to China who financed Iran." How low can you go, seriously.
Swazi Spring
Profile Joined September 2012
United States415 Posts
October 24 2012 02:24 GMT
#20143
On October 24 2012 11:22 Souma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:18 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:13 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:03 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:55 Swazi Spring wrote:
America is a federation, not a unitary state. The president should represent all of the states equally. How would you feel if the leaders of the EU only cared about Germany?


Wrong.

If this were true, Federal law would not supersede state law..it would be the reverse. America has not been a confederation since the decade after the Revolutionary war ended.

Where did I say America was a confederacy?


Either way, America's president does represent all Americans equally, as all federal laws and regulations affect all Americans equally. The Federal legislative, judicial, and executive powers cannot enact statutes that affect only one part of the country, which is by design of the constitution.

As other people here said, the president leads the STATES. It's bad enough the lefties passed the 17th Amendment, a "popular vote" would put the final nail in the coffin for federalism in America.


The Supreme Court has ruled that the power of the federal government is given by the people and not the states. I happen to agree with this interpretation of the Constitution.

Can you please name the case in which they said that?
Swazi Spring
Profile Joined September 2012
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 02:31:03
October 24 2012 02:25 GMT
#20144
On October 24 2012 11:24 Poorlilrich wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

It's common sense, but some people are just uneducated and think "more democratic = automatically better."
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 13:19:09
October 24 2012 02:25 GMT
#20145
On October 24 2012 11:11 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:10 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 Swazi Spring wrote:
Jill Stein: "I want to get rid of our national debt! I also want to transform America into a completely socialist state, give away 'free' college, give away 'free' healthcare, and wage a war on climate change!"

I don't think she understands how economics work.


Denmark seems to be doing really well with their free healthcare and free education and I also hear those Europeans care very much about their enviroment. Why has their society not collapsed?

And please tell me you are not an economics student.

Europe is falling apart, though cradle to grave socialism is only a small part of the reason why. As Gary Johnson said in the debate: "'Free' comes at a cost."

Europe isn't falling apart. The Eurozone is in trouble, but that's got nothing to do with socialism. That's what happens when you have a single currency, losing exchange rates as an adjustment mechanism, without a single fiscal authority and banking union or your own central bank, and you get hit by a massive shock such as the GFC and the bursting of a giant housing bubble.

If it's all about socialism, why isn't Germany or Sweden falling apart? They have larger welfare states than Spain and Greece. Why isn't Australia falling apart?

What's the economic reasoning that leads from Socialism to the Eurozone crisis?
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
October 24 2012 02:26 GMT
#20146
On October 24 2012 11:18 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:13 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:03 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:55 Swazi Spring wrote:
America is a federation, not a unitary state. The president should represent all of the states equally. How would you feel if the leaders of the EU only cared about Germany?


Wrong.

If this were true, Federal law would not supersede state law..it would be the reverse. America has not been a confederation since the decade after the Revolutionary war ended.

Where did I say America was a confederacy?


Either way, America's president does represent all Americans equally, as all federal laws and regulations affect all Americans equally. The Federal legislative, judicial, and executive powers cannot enact statutes that affect only one part of the country, which is by design of the constitution.

As other people here said, the president leads the STATES. It's bad enough the lefties passed the 17th Amendment, a "popular vote" would put the final nail in the coffin for federalism in America.


Oh other people said it?? IT MUST BE TRUE!!

But really, the President leads the Federal government, and Governors lead the State governments..If the president lead the states I seriously doubt that Wisconsin would have been passing a bill to end collective bargaining rights for Government employees, or that Ohio would have gotten so close to restricting the vote for constituents who were going to overwhelmingly vote for Obama...the President...
Liquid Fighting
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
October 24 2012 02:27 GMT
#20147
On October 24 2012 11:25 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:24 Poorlilrich wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

It's common sense but some people are just uneducated and think "more democratic = automatically better."


wisest thing you've ever said, SS
shikata ga nai
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
October 24 2012 02:27 GMT
#20148
On October 24 2012 11:25 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:24 Poorlilrich wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

It's common sense but some people are just uneducated and think "more democratic = automatically better."


I am absolutely convinced you are trolling and trying to make conservatives look bad. There's just no way someone who has learned how to open a browser and find the address bar can have this kind of logic.
Josealtron
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States219 Posts
October 24 2012 02:28 GMT
#20149
On October 24 2012 11:25 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:24 Poorlilrich wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

It's common sense but some people are just uneducated and think "more democratic = automatically better."


LOL. 1 state 1 vote=common sense...and people who don't think so are uneducated?

This seriously just made my night. Thank you.
"If you give up on yourself, you give up on the world."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 24 2012 02:28 GMT
#20150
Wow that is a large crowd.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
October 24 2012 02:28 GMT
#20151
On October 24 2012 11:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
"End corporate personhood. Money is not speech and corporations are not people!" - Jill Stein


The biggest issue of any, to me, is this. Every other issue we discuss doesn't matter if our voice in this Republic is literally measured by the amount of money that comes with it. "Citizens United" is 100% oligarchy-style government, completely unethical, has no constitutional basis, and completely belittles what little say the average person has in the political process.

Obama has talked about it, but something needs to actually be done. We sure as hell know where Mitt Romney stands on Citizens United. For him, it's like having double citizenship. Or triple/quadruple, maybe.

Big water
Swazi Spring
Profile Joined September 2012
United States415 Posts
October 24 2012 02:29 GMT
#20152
On October 24 2012 11:25 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:11 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:10 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 Swazi Spring wrote:
Jill Stein: "I want to get rid of our national debt! I also want to transform America into a completely socialist state, give away 'free' college, give away 'free' healthcare, and wage a war on climate change!"

I don't think she understands how economics work.


Denmark seems to be doing really well with their free healthcare and free education and I also hear those Europeans care very much about their enviroment. Why has their society not collapsed?

And please tell me you are not an economics student.

Europe is falling apart, though cradle to grave socialism is only a small part of the reason why. As Gary Johnson said in the debate: "'Free' comes at a cost."

Europe isn't falling apart. The Eurozone is in trouble, but that's got nothing to do with socialism. That's what happens when you have a single currency, losing exchange rates as an adjustment mechanism, without a single fiscal authority and banking union or your own central bank, and you get hit by a massive shock such as the GFC and the bursting of a giant housing bubble.

If it's all about socialism, by isn't Germany or Sweden falling apart? They have larger welfare states than Spain and Greece. Why isn't Australia falling apart?

What's the economic reasoning that leads from Socialism to the Eurozone crisis?

Again the welfare state is only part of the problem. You said it yourself that having a single-currency that spans various culturally diverse regions is another part of it. I wasn't just referring to Europe's economic failure though, in general they are falling part at the seems. You're right that we have seen economic crisis after economic crisis in Europe, but we've also seen the rise of Islamic extremism, the rise of extreme nationalism, the loss of civil liberties, and the undemocratic EU growing stronger and stronger.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 24 2012 02:29 GMT
#20153
second debate to be held next Tuesday.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Swazi Spring
Profile Joined September 2012
United States415 Posts
October 24 2012 02:30 GMT
#20154
On October 24 2012 11:26 Survivor61316 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:18 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:13 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:03 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:55 Swazi Spring wrote:
America is a federation, not a unitary state. The president should represent all of the states equally. How would you feel if the leaders of the EU only cared about Germany?


Wrong.

If this were true, Federal law would not supersede state law..it would be the reverse. America has not been a confederation since the decade after the Revolutionary war ended.

Where did I say America was a confederacy?


Either way, America's president does represent all Americans equally, as all federal laws and regulations affect all Americans equally. The Federal legislative, judicial, and executive powers cannot enact statutes that affect only one part of the country, which is by design of the constitution.

As other people here said, the president leads the STATES. It's bad enough the lefties passed the 17th Amendment, a "popular vote" would put the final nail in the coffin for federalism in America.


Oh other people said it?? IT MUST BE TRUE!!

But really, the President leads the Federal government, and Governors lead the State governments..If the president lead the states I seriously doubt that Wisconsin would have been passing a bill to end collective bargaining rights for Government employees, or that Ohio would have gotten so close to restricting the vote for constituents who were going to overwhelmingly vote for Obama...the President...

The president leads the coalition of states, yes.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
October 24 2012 02:32 GMT
#20155
On October 24 2012 11:29 Swazi Spring wrote:
the undemocratic EU


didn't you JUST say more democratic wasn't better?
shikata ga nai
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
October 24 2012 02:32 GMT
#20156
On October 24 2012 11:25 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:24 Poorlilrich wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:02 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:58 BlueBird. wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:57 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:50 Swazi Spring wrote:
We need to replace the electoral college with a 1 state = 1 vote system.

Sadly the liberals would probably ragequit and not allow such an amendment to pass.


Actually if you watched the debate between Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly, its the republican party who generally shies away from the popular vote. When it came up to the two of them, Stewart (an obvious liberal) lauded the idea, and O'Reilly (clearly an elephant) said it would be a horrible decision to remove the electoral college.

Its really no surprise, as more than two percent more of registered voter are registered as democrats over republicans, which would obviously give a benefit to the Democratic party in an election.


1 state 1 vote is not a popular vote at all, it would be very very far from it

Not necessarily, it would be up to each individual state as to how they would vote. One state might have their legislature pick who they want to vote for, another might have a popular vote to decide.


I'll give you some advice: trying to argue 1 state 1 vote is not going to end well for you.

It's common sense, but some people are just uneducated and think "more democratic = automatically better."


The cognitive dissonance of not believing more democratic = better and supporting American exceptionalism is astounding to me. The whole idea of American exceptionalism is predicated on the value of democracy.
Swazi Spring
Profile Joined September 2012
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-24 02:36:37
October 24 2012 02:33 GMT
#20157
On October 24 2012 11:32 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:29 Swazi Spring wrote:
the undemocratic EU


didn't you JUST say more democratic wasn't better?

I support democracy, but much like the Founding Fathers, I am wary of too much democracy.
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
October 24 2012 02:35 GMT
#20158
On October 24 2012 11:30 Swazi Spring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2012 11:26 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:18 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:13 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 11:03 Swazi Spring wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
On October 24 2012 10:55 Swazi Spring wrote:
America is a federation, not a unitary state. The president should represent all of the states equally. How would you feel if the leaders of the EU only cared about Germany?


Wrong.

If this were true, Federal law would not supersede state law..it would be the reverse. America has not been a confederation since the decade after the Revolutionary war ended.

Where did I say America was a confederacy?


Either way, America's president does represent all Americans equally, as all federal laws and regulations affect all Americans equally. The Federal legislative, judicial, and executive powers cannot enact statutes that affect only one part of the country, which is by design of the constitution.

As other people here said, the president leads the STATES. It's bad enough the lefties passed the 17th Amendment, a "popular vote" would put the final nail in the coffin for federalism in America.


Oh other people said it?? IT MUST BE TRUE!!

But really, the President leads the Federal government, and Governors lead the State governments..If the president lead the states I seriously doubt that Wisconsin would have been passing a bill to end collective bargaining rights for Government employees, or that Ohio would have gotten so close to restricting the vote for constituents who were going to overwhelmingly vote for Obama...the President...

The president leads the coalition of states, yes.


You can just keep saying that if you want, but its not true. The United States is a unified nation, and you have provided absolutely no evidence otherwise (except for saying that other people said it was true!). POTUS leads the Federal government, as is laid out in the constitution, and only concerns himself with the workings on going-ons of the Federal Government. We stopped being a loose knit group of individual states, and began to be a unified nation a long time ago.
Liquid Fighting
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
October 24 2012 02:35 GMT
#20159
wary or weary?
shikata ga nai
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 24 2012 02:36 GMT
#20160
So it looks like Romney has another Akin moment coming up.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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