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On April 18 2012 09:41 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:39 Wood! wrote:
the new american mantra: something for nothing Undergrad is to get a piece of paper that lets you get a job. Colleges/universities are not about education, they are about profit. Students are to blame as well, but the fact that the cost of education keeps going up is a joke. Basically every job requires some type of diploma whether or not its really justified. Its going to get worse in the future when jobs that you can get with a bachelors degree now require a masters. The universities have us by the balls and they know it. Employers are only helping them out. It is sad.
Wrong, the undergrad now is nothing. it doesn't get you a job. everyone and their mom has an undergrad now, especially in fields that don't teach you any technical prowess like non-science based degrees. None of what is taught in universities, generally translate into something useful in the job that people will be getting. Going to a technical school or a vocational school, would've been faster, cheaper, and often times, lead more directly into a paying job than going to get an undergrad for MOST of these people who go to it, but society has been sold on GO TO UNIVERSITY GET YOUR BACHELORS, JOBS WILL BE WAITING, and it's all just been a lie.
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On April 18 2012 09:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
i really dont understand why people can get away with such horrible ops btw. here is the official summary of the law:
You should do an OP on how to properly make an OP so that people who don't know how to make a proper OP can make a proper OP. I hear you're really good at making good OP's.
As far as the student loan forgiveness~ I'm shouldering the burden of student loans myself so the idea of being able to get out from that is tempting. But, the reality is that its my burden to bear. It was a choice me and my wife made and the consequences should be ours to deal with. ##Vote No on Robin Hood initiatives.
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On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance.
I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance
Seriously though, it would reward irresponsible people more often than responsible, at least compared to their general prevalence.
And also, why is anyone debating this anyways? It's not like it has any chance at passing.
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This is a awful act. People need to pay for there education, not increase this countries debt.
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On April 18 2012 09:32 Kimaker wrote:
Eh. Colleges are filled with people who shouldn't be there. That's their problem. I hope they don't forgive the loans, so the next generation won't get flooded with degrees who's value just keeps going lower and lower because everyone and their cat has a bachelors.
For everyone saying "we need education to be every more accessible" it's called the internet, books and personal ambition. You can learn SO much now even if you don't go to college as long as you're willing to take the time. You never stop learning if it's what you love.
Going to college doesn't make you smarter, it just means you can jump through hoops.
You're missing the key point. Having massive debt crushes the strength of the economy for all but the very very top (and sometimes there too), it's basically a huge part of why the US is falling apart at the seams. People are generally aware these days that the national debt is much too large, and that this is to their individual detriment. What's less obvious is that programs like Federal loansharking that prey on large swathes of society may not directly victimize you personally, but you do suffer indirectly all the time (for example how nearly every state's government is also bankrupt). Higher education has lots of problems, including admitting unprepared students (often the graduates of spectacularly underfunded public schools), but piling massive debts onto students is not an effective limiter. Not only does it not work, but it actually punishes everyone, except the tiny few who get to swim Scrooge McDuck style as a result.
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On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance.
want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible.
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This is stupid. Instead of forgiving debts, they should increase government financial aid, and lower tuition. In addition, they should make financial aid harder to get. Or at least, they need to regulate this like crazy so no one abuses it.
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On April 18 2012 09:44 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:41 Sadist wrote:On April 18 2012 09:39 Wood! wrote:
the new american mantra: something for nothing Undergrad is to get a piece of paper that lets you get a job. Colleges/universities are not about education, they are about profit. Students are to blame as well, but the fact that the cost of education keeps going up is a joke. Basically every job requires some type of diploma whether or not its really justified. Its going to get worse in the future when jobs that you can get with a bachelors degree now require a masters. The universities have us by the balls and they know it. Employers are only helping them out. It is sad. Wrong, the undergrad now is nothing. it doesn't get you a job. everyone and their mom has an undergrad now, especially in fields that don't teach you any technical prowess like non-science based degrees. None of what is taught in universities, generally translate into something useful in the job that people will be getting. Going to a technical school or a vocational school, would've been faster, cheaper, and often times, lead more directly into a paying job than going to get an undergrad for MOST of these people who go to it, but society has been sold on GO TO UNIVERSITY GET YOUR BACHELORS, JOBS WILL BE WAITING, and it's all just been a lie.
I agree completely.
I feel like learning a trade, and learning it well, would be far more beneficial.
I have my bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from MSU and felt like i learned nothing  (I wasnt the best student in the universities defense, but its not like anything in any of the classes I have taken has proven useful. At best it would be like reading a brochure on a topic and then having to actually learn it at work)
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On April 18 2012 09:40 CajunMan wrote:
No period. No one deserves free higher education like that when they knew the consequences if they should not pay it back. What happened to responsibility? The real problem is that everyone has been convinced college is 100% necessary and that technical job schools don't work. 99% of those people who don't pay there loans back had no business in school in the first places they should have taken some kind of technical class max and got a job. Now every job in the world that isn't shit requires a college degree even if it can be learned on job or done in a shorter amount of time. On top of this because college become so necessary in the public eyes the prices have exploded for a shit education.
I was 18 when I decided to go to university...
Didn't have anyone else in my family who ever attended post secondary studies.
No one gave me advice about money really. Everyone, including my high school counsellors just said get a student loan.
I feel like... I don't agree with your first sentence. But even if it were true... that no one deserves free higher education.
I can't agree that an 18 year old is prepared to make a decision that would put them in debt for 10-15 years depending on how their life goes. That type of debt just doesn't register in a person's brain who has been taken care of since birth.
Everyone's situation is different. I must stress this part but it's not fair to talk harshly like that (regarding your first sentence).
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At least it's something, I would think it better to try and cap in someway (hard because so many private institutions) the absurd and unjustifiably inflated costs of uni within the US, but that's probably impossible.
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On April 18 2012 09:45 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance. want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible.
I agree with this rationale
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United States7483 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:45 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance. want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible.
Your assumptions are bad. First, you assume that bad luck cannot occur and that things are static. Secondly, you're ignoring the existence of unemployment. Thirdly, when those students default everyone suffers from it. Are you suggesting that letting them default is a better situation? Defaulting on loans sucks horribly for the companies that give out the loans and indirectly affects many people who had no say in the matter in the first place. Preventing default is in everyone's interests.
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No ones forcing you to go to an expensive school. Just because people can't be responsible with their finances doesn't mean that they should have them all forgiven. I work and go to an instate college, I don't see why anyone should be rewarded for being financially irresponsible.
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On April 18 2012 09:45 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance. want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible.
Because you assume or generalize that since one can't pay back their loans without being overwhelmed that they are financially irresponsible. You don't seem to take into account how student loan debt is overwhelming even those who work just as hard as you. The economics that apply to the problem is not static math.
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On April 18 2012 09:48 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:45 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance. want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible. Your assumptions are bad. First, you assume that bad luck cannot occur and that things are static. Secondly, you're ignoring the existence of unemployment. Thirdly, when those students default everyone suffers from it.
I tried to explain this on page one, no one wants to recognize it.
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On April 18 2012 09:46 jjun212 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:40 CajunMan wrote:
No period. No one deserves free higher education like that when they knew the consequences if they should not pay it back. What happened to responsibility? The real problem is that everyone has been convinced college is 100% necessary and that technical job schools don't work. 99% of those people who don't pay there loans back had no business in school in the first places they should have taken some kind of technical class max and got a job. Now every job in the world that isn't shit requires a college degree even if it can be learned on job or done in a shorter amount of time. On top of this because college become so necessary in the public eyes the prices have exploded for a shit education. I was 18 when I decided to go to university... Didn't have anyone else in my family who ever attended post secondary studies. No one gave me advice about money really. Everyone, including my high school counsellors just said get a student loan. I feel like... I don't agree with your first sentence. But even if it were true... that no one deserves free higher education. I can't agree that an 18 year old is prepared to make a decision that would put them in debt for 10-15 years depending on how their life goes. That type of debt just doesn't register in a person's brain who has been taken care of since birth. Everyone's situation is different. I must stress this part but it's not fair to talk harshly like that (regarding your first sentence).
I agree that kids are not prepared to take on this debt and generally view it as free money. I feel so lucky I went the military route first and college as an actual adult. With that said, the debt forgiveness exacerbates the problem. The solutions are found elsewhere, and it's not forgiving everyone's debt.
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United States7483 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:49 Blindo wrote:
No ones forcing you to go to an expensive school. Just because people can't be responsible with their finances doesn't mean that they should have them all forgiven. I work and go to an instate college, I don't see why anyone should be rewarded for being financially irresponsible.
How about a school that raised their prices 6,000 dollars in a couple of years? Mine did, after I decided to attend it based on the original price. It was still cheaper than the other schools I was willing to consider (quality reasons), so I had to suck it up.
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On April 18 2012 09:48 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:45 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 18 2012 09:42 Classysaurus wrote:On April 18 2012 09:35 dAPhREAk wrote:
no, it only rewards financially irresponsible people. I'm hurt to see this level of ignorance. want to explain how that is ignorant? i only took out student loans that i knew i could pay back. this bill doesn't help me or other people who are able to pay back their debt. it helps people who can't pay back their debt. that is, in my mind, financially irresponsible. Your assumptions are bad. First, you assume that bad luck cannot occur and that things are static. Secondly, you're ignoring the existence of unemployment. Thirdly, when those students default everyone suffers from it.
i recognize that people (especially in this economy) will lose their job, may go on disability, etc. however, we have welfare, we have disability insurance, etc. to cover those kinds of things. this adds another level of government dole that we can neither afford, nor should we increase taxes to provide.
edit: to address your edits, there are things they can do (and already do) to prevent default (deferral, lower interest rates, etc.) that dont require a complete forgiveness. i am not saying make them default, i am saying dont forgive debt.
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On April 18 2012 09:40 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2012 09:38 Count9 wrote:
To be fair, most students here (decent uni) are complete idiots and spend most days partying and doing other stupid things instead of studying and have no shot of getting a job. They are not getting crushed under student debts, they're getting crushed under their own studpidity. Again, part of the problem of the education system. Everyone thinks you HAVE to have a degree to get a job, when right now it does nothing, except bloat the system, and end up devaluing the degree itself. If everyone has a degree, everyone might as well not have it as well. So instead you get people who just party it up, because they shouldn't be there anyways, bloat the wallets of the universities themselves to pad the salaries of presidents/chancellors, and sports teams, etc, while simultaneously putting the entire american demographic of young adults into monstrous debt that they have NO WAY of paying themselves out of because there simply aren't enough jobs out there for these people who were sold a LIE from the day they got into high school.
Nationally we're basically at full employment for people with a Bachelor's and up (unemployment = 4.4%). Unemployment is really only a problem with people that haven't finished college. So, no you weren't sold a lie.
http://bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
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Student loans are amazing. I wouldn't be in school without them. And I'm happy to pay them back when i'm done. How about stop asking for hand outs and do some work in your life.
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EPT
