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Age Hierarchy Power in Asia is too much ? - Page 6

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evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
April 10 2012 10:28 GMT
#101
LOL what kind of fucked up friends do you hang out with? Better drop them fuckers before you get involved in stupidity yourself
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
spkim1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 11:30:28
April 10 2012 11:29 GMT
#102
On April 10 2012 16:28 Supamang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:55 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
You actually acted wrong in this situation. When a senior is setting his juniors straight, usually its done with good intentions. Since you said you're Korean by blood but not nationality and for others reading this thread, who aren't as accustomed to Korean culture might find it outrageous that the senior was slapping his juniors. But for him to do that, they must have really fucked up if hes a good senior. And in that situation right after he was talking to them, you coming in and asking the guy your age, if he was not too drunk and ok gives the impression you're disrespecting him. The other senior let you off easy because I'm sure he knew you meant no disrespect but it wasn't the best thing to do in the situation.

Bullshit.

I've seen my Korean friends fucked with simply because they were younger. There was no reason other than the fact that the older guy could get away with it.

To tell you the truth, I honestly think its only to this extreme in Korean culture. I never saw this shit while I was in Japan, it's never been that emphasized growing up as the youngest son in a Taiwanese family (parents are from Taiwan). And yet I hear about this from Koreans even here in the States. Does anyone have a similar experience?


Right.

In a way this is how a part of me felt, in a more suppressed, weaker way.
I thought this was a load of bullshit of an excuse to whack younger ones.
Whatever the reason slapping the face of an outside person (not within family) is unforgivable.
끈끈한 선후배의 우정 사이라고 ? (Strongly-bonded friendship relation between seniors and juniors ?)
웃기고 있네. 멍멍 ! ㄲㄲ (sounds like dog barks)
조금만 더 우정 쌓다간 이빨 날라가겠다 ㅆㅂ (More friendship and you'll end up with no teeth)
Is what I thought in my head.

Then again, a part of me said to just let this whole business go, because it's really got nothing to do with me as long as he doesn't try his crap on me. This is why I was considering leaving this whole circle completely, because it just looked too silly to remain any more. And I see many people share my thinking in this forum.

Nevertheless, I want to clarify that not all Koreans are like this, and others are really awesome !
I'll try and join a cool group and blend in as one of their awesome members !
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new" - Einstein, Albert
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17726 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 12:53:16
April 10 2012 12:46 GMT
#103
On April 10 2012 16:28 Supamang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 08:55 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
You actually acted wrong in this situation. When a senior is setting his juniors straight, usually its done with good intentions. Since you said you're Korean by blood but not nationality and for others reading this thread, who aren't as accustomed to Korean culture might find it outrageous that the senior was slapping his juniors. But for him to do that, they must have really fucked up if hes a good senior. And in that situation right after he was talking to them, you coming in and asking the guy your age, if he was not too drunk and ok gives the impression you're disrespecting him. The other senior let you off easy because I'm sure he knew you meant no disrespect but it wasn't the best thing to do in the situation.

Bullshit.

I've seen my Korean friends fucked with simply because they were younger. There was no reason other than the fact that the older guy could get away with it.

To tell you the truth, I honestly think its only to this extreme in Korean culture. I never saw this shit while I was in Japan, it's never been that emphasized growing up as the youngest son in a Taiwanese family (parents are from Taiwan). And yet I hear about this from Koreans even here in the States. Does anyone have a similar experience?

I never denied that a senior will fuck with his junior just because he can. It happens and in some cases a lot but there are also people who don't. I never claimed that this was the case for the op. The thing is none of us were there when this happened except for the op, so we have only his word. The situation he described could be just a case of seniors just fucking with their juniors but there are times when it isn't.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
April 10 2012 20:01 GMT
#104
On April 10 2012 15:53 Meta wrote:
Being indebted to your own family is one thing, but respecting random strangers because they have wrinkles is ridiculous.


I just can't help but think your tune would change if you were older.

Call me assuming, but in order to argue, I'm going to allow myself to [assume]. Most people that can't find the merit in respecting elders are not only generally young, but have a chip on their shoulders as to why elders don't deserve respect. That is not only my experience, but still a generalization and assumption.

So, instead of always imagining being the youth in the situation, place yourself as the elder.

Have you ever babsat (is that a word?) before? Have you ever had a 3 yr old kid spit in your face because he/she didn't want to listen to what you said? You might say it didn't cross your mind, but I wouldn't believe it if you said the thought, "What a little brat." never passed.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
Roflhaxx
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1244 Posts
April 10 2012 20:26 GMT
#105
On April 10 2012 20:29 spkim1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 16:28 Supamang wrote:
On April 10 2012 08:55 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
You actually acted wrong in this situation. When a senior is setting his juniors straight, usually its done with good intentions. Since you said you're Korean by blood but not nationality and for others reading this thread, who aren't as accustomed to Korean culture might find it outrageous that the senior was slapping his juniors. But for him to do that, they must have really fucked up if hes a good senior. And in that situation right after he was talking to them, you coming in and asking the guy your age, if he was not too drunk and ok gives the impression you're disrespecting him. The other senior let you off easy because I'm sure he knew you meant no disrespect but it wasn't the best thing to do in the situation.

Bullshit.

I've seen my Korean friends fucked with simply because they were younger. There was no reason other than the fact that the older guy could get away with it.

To tell you the truth, I honestly think its only to this extreme in Korean culture. I never saw this shit while I was in Japan, it's never been that emphasized growing up as the youngest son in a Taiwanese family (parents are from Taiwan). And yet I hear about this from Koreans even here in the States. Does anyone have a similar experience?


Right.

In a way this is how a part of me felt, in a more suppressed, weaker way.
I thought this was a load of bullshit of an excuse to whack younger ones.
Whatever the reason slapping the face of an outside person (not within family) is unforgivable.
끈끈한 선후배의 우정 사이라고 ? (Strongly-bonded friendship relation between seniors and juniors ?)
웃기고 있네. 멍멍 ! ㄲㄲ (sounds like dog barks)
조금만 더 우정 쌓다간 이빨 날라가겠다 ㅆㅂ (More friendship and you'll end up with no teeth)
Is what I thought in my head.

Then again, a part of me said to just let this whole business go, because it's really got nothing to do with me as long as he doesn't try his crap on me. This is why I was considering leaving this whole circle completely, because it just looked too silly to remain any more. And I see many people share my thinking in this forum.

Nevertheless, I want to clarify that not all Koreans are like this, and others are really awesome !
I'll try and join a cool group and blend in as one of their awesome members !

Wait..what? So slapping someone IN your family is okay? That is even worse what the f--- only times ever really been slapped is by male friends (i'd slap em back) or by girls (deserved it). If someone in my family slapped me however, the reason better be damn good otherwise it will probably be the last time they see me in a couple of years, i'd pack my bags and leave, really.
A game where the first thing you do is scout with a “worker”. Does that make any sense? Who scouts with a “worker”? That’s like sending out the janitor to perform recon, what general would do that? Retarded game.
MethodSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States928 Posts
April 10 2012 20:29 GMT
#106
On April 11 2012 05:01 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 15:53 Meta wrote:
Being indebted to your own family is one thing, but respecting random strangers because they have wrinkles is ridiculous.


I just can't help but think your tune would change if you were older.

Call me assuming, but in order to argue, I'm going to allow myself to [assume]. Most people that can't find the merit in respecting elders are not only generally young, but have a chip on their shoulders as to why elders don't deserve respect. That is not only my experience, but still a generalization and assumption.

So, instead of always imagining being the youth in the situation, place yourself as the elder.

Have you ever babsat (is that a word?) before? Have you ever had a 3 yr old kid spit in your face because he/she didn't want to listen to what you said? You might say it didn't cross your mind, but I wouldn't believe it if you said the thought, "What a little brat." never passed.


There's a huge difference between expecting a 3 year old child to listen to you and an adult. Or are you implying that the posters against repsecting the elders are 3 years old? Your argument makes no sense.
Rob28
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada705 Posts
April 10 2012 20:30 GMT
#107
That's some crazy shit. In the Western world, we have a reversal in roles sometimes, where seniors are pretty much terrified of younger people. But they do have they entitled moments. Most complainers are old folk. Same with watchdog groups, all old folk. But there's no defined lines as to whom is superior to whom, because it happens on a case by case basis.

That being said, people around my age grew up in the Information Age, and we know a lot more than older generations. Hell, our Grade 9 curriculum now is pretty much what they went off to learn in first-year university. So I think their claims to "knowing more than we do because they are older" is total BS.
"power overwhelming"... work, dammit, work!
taldarimAltar
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
973 Posts
April 10 2012 20:33 GMT
#108
Anyone in a position above you is more likely to push you around than you pushing a senior around. If he sees himself as above you, it can be hard to stop, especially in school, where seniors have been there longer. Naturally they'll think they're the boss, getting push around by younger kids would be such a disgrace to bullies like these.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
April 10 2012 20:36 GMT
#109
Well, the human kind likes power. So whenever we can get power we abuse it. Some abuse it more while some abuse it less but most people still abuse it to some degree.

Like for example someone might punch a younger guy in the gut just because he has the power to do so without giving much reason for it.

On the other hand another guy might just say to a younger guy: Here take this money and go buy me a soda and hurry up.

Both are power abuse.

Ofcourse not everyone abuses power but many do. Im not like that for example. I do ask people for favours sometimes though.

Sadly bullying exists in whatever country you live in and people will always crave power. There will be peace in the world when it no more exists!
Sitinte
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States499 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 20:41:34
April 10 2012 20:40 GMT
#110
The whole hierarchy thing is from Confucian views on relationships; filial piety, brotherly love; etc. It's weird, because you'd think that these things would die out (Confucianism as a doctrine eventually relented and gave way to Christianity and various Buddhism sects toward the 18th century and moreso during the 19th and 20th centuries as Korea became modernized), but they still exist.

I don't exactly agree with what the sunbae did, but what I would've done is ask if everyone was alright (because 'drunk' might have seemed offensive to the other party at the time) as connotation and word choice is important in these scenarios. I have to face this on a daily basis; I really want to talk casually to my parents and older relatives like my friends do with their families but it's like playing on a minefield.

Edit:
However, whenever a hoobae comes to me and calls me 'hyung' or 'oppa', I tell them to stop it because it makes me feel uncomfortable (okay, half true; the girls can continue calling me 'oppa')
sunprince
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2258 Posts
April 10 2012 22:18 GMT
#111
On April 11 2012 05:01 danl9rm wrote:
Have you ever babsat (is that a word?) before? Have you ever had a 3 yr old kid spit in your face because he/she didn't want to listen to what you said? You might say it didn't cross your mind, but I wouldn't believe it if you said the thought, "What a little brat." never passed.


There is a fundamental difference between the intellectual gap from an adult to a toddler, and the intellectual gap between an older adult and a younger adult. The latter involves two mature entities, while the former does not.

If elderly people think of young adults the way they would 3-year-olds, then that explains a lot as to why they feel entitled to demand unearned respect.
0123456789
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3216 Posts
April 10 2012 22:19 GMT
#112
One guy got murdered because of this age hierarchy thing in the U.S. True story.
joe_
Profile Joined November 2010
30 Posts
April 10 2012 22:24 GMT
#113
On April 11 2012 07:18 sunprince wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 05:01 danl9rm wrote:
Have you ever babsat (is that a word?) before? Have you ever had a 3 yr old kid spit in your face because he/she didn't want to listen to what you said? You might say it didn't cross your mind, but I wouldn't believe it if you said the thought, "What a little brat." never passed.


There is a fundamental difference between the intellectual gap from an adult to a toddler, and the intellectual gap between an older adult and a younger adult. The latter involves two mature entities, while the former does not.

If elderly people think of young adults the way they would 3-year-olds, then that explains a lot as to why they feel entitled to demand unearned respect.



Exactly! Yes, a three year old need to respect their elders because they don't understand the world well enough to make their own decisions. Once someone is able to understand the world around them and make their own decisions they deserve no less or more respect than anyone else capable of the same things.

danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
April 11 2012 14:11 GMT
#114
On April 11 2012 07:24 joe_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2012 07:18 sunprince wrote:
On April 11 2012 05:01 danl9rm wrote:
Have you ever babsat (is that a word?) before? Have you ever had a 3 yr old kid spit in your face because he/she didn't want to listen to what you said? You might say it didn't cross your mind, but I wouldn't believe it if you said the thought, "What a little brat." never passed.


There is a fundamental difference between the intellectual gap from an adult to a toddler, and the intellectual gap between an older adult and a younger adult. The latter involves two mature entities, while the former does not.

If elderly people think of young adults the way they would 3-year-olds, then that explains a lot as to why they feel entitled to demand unearned respect.



Exactly! Yes, a three year old need to respect their elders because they don't understand the world well enough to make their own decisions. Once someone is able to understand the world around them and make their own decisions they deserve no less or more respect than anyone else capable of the same things.



Does no one else see the silliness in this? You say a 3-year old should respect his elders because he's too young to understand the world "well enough to make his own decisions," and yet he must make the decision to respect his elders. What the.

If respect was only given to those "capable," there would be very little respect floating around. Should we only respect the people in Gold league and above? What about just diamond+, master+? grandmaster?

Someone is always going to deserve more respect than you. If that means you don't have to respect your "lessers," no one would respect anyone.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
April 11 2012 14:16 GMT
#115
As was to be expected, this has quickly devolved into people tripping over one another to display just how meaningless the word respect is, and how devoid of purpose the word has become in the last five years.

We should take the word and shoot it behind the shed, because it is only being used by12 year olds that demand it, and religious people that can't take a verbal beating.
Cybren
Profile Joined February 2010
United States206 Posts
April 11 2012 14:49 GMT
#116
Iunno man, socrates was a pariah.
The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
kafkaesque
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Germany2006 Posts
April 11 2012 14:56 GMT
#117
On April 10 2012 09:13 HaRuHi wrote:
German point of view:

Respect the elder - since when has withering become an accomplishment?


Dieter Nuhr?
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Gajarell
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-11 17:19:55
April 11 2012 17:17 GMT
#118
Discussing a topic ranging over different cultures one has to keep the following in mind, beeing "allowed" (or not) to demand respect for beeing smarter is just what *you* may have grown up with.

Of course there are way better reasons to respect someone:
- he is stronger then me
- she looks good
- he laid more girls
- they are already respected in the social circle someone is entering (sounds familiar?)
- they are (appearing) smarter
...

And that gives the alpha the right to decide which film is gonna be watched tonight, hell finally a sound system
Un bon mot ne prouve rien. - Voltaire
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