|
In order for this topic to stay open, keep in mind the following: - Understand the difference between sex and gender- Please be respectful to those involved, particularly the transgendered - If you post without reason, or do not add to the discussion, you will be met with moderator action - If you don't know which pronoun is appropriate please feel free to read the topic and inform yourself before posting. We're all for debate but this is a sensitive subject for many people. |
On April 03 2012 19:09 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:04 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 19:02 Greentellon wrote:
His DNA is that of a male. If DNA gender is not required, then at what point are the cosmetic changes enough to make you a "woman"?
If it's the appearance what makes you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If it's the "features" your body has that make you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If having breast implants etc makes you a woman, then does removal of breasts (because of cancer for example) make you a man?
DNA is the only acceptable definer of gender, in my opinion. I was born a man, you were born a man/woman. I say "deal with it". Just like I couldn't choose who my parents were. Tell that to the people that have had gender identification issues their entire lives. Go ahead. Tell them that their pain and suffering is bullshit and that they should just "deal with it". the reason they have gender identification issues is BECAUSE of society. Society says "men cant do X and women cant do Y, these territories are reserved for people of the opposite gender". Women don't want an emotional crying man. no matter what people say. Gender identity issues stem from people of a certain gender wanting to behave against their culture's sexual role predefined behaviors. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:04 aderum wrote:On April 03 2012 19:02 Greentellon wrote:
His DNA is that of a male. If DNA gender is not required, then at what point are the cosmetic changes enough to make you a "woman"?
If it's the appearance what makes you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If it's the "features" your body has that make you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If having breast implants etc makes you a woman, then does removal of breasts (because of cancer for example) make you a man?
DNA is the only acceptable definer of gender, in my opinion. I was born a man, you were born a man/woman. I say "deal with it". Just like I couldn't choose who my parents were. So if you see a person that has red hair but was born with brown hair, would you call them a brown haired person? If someone looks and defines her self as a woman, who are you to say that she isnt one? We call people "unnatural blondes" if they dye their hair blonde. We don't call people with Pink or Green hair "natural", in fact we discriminate against these people having good jobs. You can't get good jobs with "unnatural hair colors", tattoos, or piercings. you can't have "unnatural hair color" at school, yet its someones life choice to dye their hair, yet we're okay discriminating against people that want to express themselves, yet we won't discriminate against people that want to express their sexual selves.
Wait what? First of all, i dont know where you live where people with "unnatural hair color" cant have it at school. Second, just because (some) people discriminate against unnatural hair color, you think we should do it towards people who changes their gender? What?
And when you see a brown haired girl, you will call her brown hair, even if you knew that she was blonde to start with. You wont call her a "unnatural brown haired girl". Or thats how all the people i have ever known would say it anyways.
And i dont understand what green and pink hair has to do with anything, since going from male->female is just as natural as going form blond->brown, not blond->green. If she would have gone from male->alien, i would understand your logic.
|
To all the "people" (yes, you deserve the quotes at this moment) in this thread who somehow think that this woman is not a woman for whatever reason, please address the following points:
1. This woman is legally female in her home country, and the country in which this event is taking place.
2. Her status as a transwoman confers no competitive advantage over her cisgendered peers.
3. Canada has laws that prohibit discrimination against transgendered people.
Also, please answer this question: If you were discovered to have internal sex organs of sex opposite to the one you express, would you change how you lived your life in the slightest?
|
United States41979 Posts
On April 03 2012 19:09 Spieltor wrote:yet we won't discriminate against people that want to express their sexual selves.
I felt I had to draw the line here. These are not people who are sexually into BDSM expecting to show up to work in leather, this is not a sexual thing, it is a gender thing. They want to be treated as if they were any other member of their gender, without discrimination. Can you honestly not see the difference?
|
On April 03 2012 19:15 QUEENT wrote:
To all the "people" (yes, you deserve the quotes at this moment) in this thread who somehow think that this woman is not a woman for whatever reason, please address the following points:
1. This woman is legally female in her home country, and the country in which this event is taking place.
2. Her status as a transwoman confers no competitive advantage over her cisgendered peers.
3. Canada has laws that prohibit discrimination against transgendered people.
Also, please answer this question: If you were discovered to have internal sex organs of sex opposite to the one you express, would you change how you lived your life in the slightest?
ok I'll bite. The legality of something doesn't make it honest or correct.
She does have an advantage, she used hormones and plastic surgery and beat all the competition. That should be a no brainer. I bet you approve of steroid use in baseball as well.
Yes, noone should discriminate against anyone, but at the same time, the contest is meant for people naturally born. he took the spot of another naturally born female by entering.
you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina.
BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived.
|
spieltor... i dont really know what to say except you make me upset. are you even thinking about what youre typing?
|
After reading these pages, I have come to observe, that so many of you, are seperating and labeling us humans, in general.
This thread is more about us, then her. It's all about how we misunderstand our views of other people. Why can't a person be a person?
If we put logic aside, and talk about our feelings, I want to ask you, how do you feel when you look at the picture of this woman? As a demonstration of an answer, it could be "I feel attracted, but I shouldn't, cause her DNA is as of a man, and .. I dont really know, I would never be with her". This is good enough answer, as long as its honest. Hopefully KwarK wont ban you for an honest answer like this.
I'll give you my straigth answer. I see this as a pretty attractive women, would look better if she had eaten a little more, but that's just me. I really do view her as a woman, a pretty interresting woman, as she has a unique experience. I would however feel a bit at unease if she was my girlfriend, and feel judged upon walking with her in the streeth. What would my friends think? I would seek professional help to deal with these feelings, cause there is a silent knowledge in me, that its nothing wrong with her.
|
On April 03 2012 19:26 crappen wrote:
After reading these pages, I have come to observe, that so many of you, are seperating and labeling us humans, in general.
This thread is more about us, then her. It's all about how we misunderstand our views of other people. Why can't a person be a person?
If we put logic aside, and talk about our feelings, I want to ask you, how do you feel when you look at the picture of this woman? As a demonstration of an answer, it could be "I feel attracted, but I shouldn't, cause her DNA is as of a man, and .. I dont really know, I would never be with her". This is good enough answer, as long as its honest. Hopefully KwarK wont ban you for an honest answer like this.
I'll give you my straigth answer. I see this as a pretty attractive women, would look better if she had eaten a little more, but that's just me. I really do view her as a woman, a pretty interresting woman, as she has a unique experience. I would however feel a bit at unease if she was my girlfriend, and feel judged upon walking with her in the streeth. What would my friends think? I would seek professional help to deal with these feelings, cause there is a silent knowledge in me, that its nothing wrong with her.
If your friends think less of you because of your choice of a sexual partner your friends are simply shitheads. Their opinion shouldn't matter what so ever.
|
On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina.
BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived.
the whole point is you wouldnt change because you think of yourself as a man. thats why she changed herself because she was a woman with male body parts.
|
On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:15 QUEENT wrote:
To all the "people" (yes, you deserve the quotes at this moment) in this thread who somehow think that this woman is not a woman for whatever reason, please address the following points:
1. This woman is legally female in her home country, and the country in which this event is taking place.
2. Her status as a transwoman confers no competitive advantage over her cisgendered peers.
3. Canada has laws that prohibit discrimination against transgendered people.
Also, please answer this question: If you were discovered to have internal sex organs of sex opposite to the one you express, would you change how you lived your life in the slightest?
ok I'll bite. The legality of something doesn't make it honest or correct. She does have an advantage, she used hormones and plastic surgery and beat all the competition. That should be a no brainer. I bet you approve of steroid use in baseball as well. Yes, noone should discriminate against anyone, but at the same time, the contest is meant for people naturally born. he took the spot of another naturally born female by entering. you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina. BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived.
1.) The females in the competition don't need drugs as they already most likely have a correct hormone balance.
2.) I'm pretty sure other females in the competition have had plastic surgery. If not you might have a point about it being unfair.
|
On April 03 2012 19:28 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:26 crappen wrote:
After reading these pages, I have come to observe, that so many of you, are seperating and labeling us humans, in general.
This thread is more about us, then her. It's all about how we misunderstand our views of other people. Why can't a person be a person?
If we put logic aside, and talk about our feelings, I want to ask you, how do you feel when you look at the picture of this woman? As a demonstration of an answer, it could be "I feel attracted, but I shouldn't, cause her DNA is as of a man, and .. I dont really know, I would never be with her". This is good enough answer, as long as its honest. Hopefully KwarK wont ban you for an honest answer like this.
I'll give you my straigth answer. I see this as a pretty attractive women, would look better if she had eaten a little more, but that's just me. I really do view her as a woman, a pretty interresting woman, as she has a unique experience. I would however feel a bit at unease if she was my girlfriend, and feel judged upon walking with her in the streeth. What would my friends think? I would seek professional help to deal with these feelings, cause there is a silent knowledge in me, that its nothing wrong with her.
If your friends think less of you because of your choice of a sexual partner your friends are simply shitheads. Their opinion shouldn't matter what so ever.
Nono, dont get me wrong, this is about ME, not my friends. We have probably all had this feeling "What would my friends think?", although this has nothing to do with how my friends actually think, cause it's hard to get an honest answer sometimes. For all I know, my friends would be jealous 
|
On April 03 2012 19:09 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:04 PanN wrote:On April 03 2012 19:02 Greentellon wrote:
His DNA is that of a male. If DNA gender is not required, then at what point are the cosmetic changes enough to make you a "woman"?
If it's the appearance what makes you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If it's the "features" your body has that make you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If having breast implants etc makes you a woman, then does removal of breasts (because of cancer for example) make you a man?
DNA is the only acceptable definer of gender, in my opinion. I was born a man, you were born a man/woman. I say "deal with it". Just like I couldn't choose who my parents were. Tell that to the people that have had gender identification issues their entire lives. Go ahead. Tell them that their pain and suffering is bullshit and that they should just "deal with it". the reason they have gender identification issues is BECAUSE of society. Society says "men cant do X and women cant do Y, these territories are reserved for people of the opposite gender". Women don't want an emotional crying man. no matter what people say. Gender identity issues stem from people of a certain gender wanting to behave against their culture's sexual role predefined behaviors. As an example, suppose a young man was out with friends and started to cry about something. Even if noone wants to admit it, his acceptance level with everyone around will go down, because crying about something is woman territory, and friends will tell you to "man up', and chicks won't be impressed with you and will turn you down over a more masculine type who's aggressive and dominant. This does make it unbelievably painful for males who behave like that or females who behave manly, because they are being rejected at their most basic level. If anything, surgery is a way to finally get acceptance. Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:04 aderum wrote:On April 03 2012 19:02 Greentellon wrote:
His DNA is that of a male. If DNA gender is not required, then at what point are the cosmetic changes enough to make you a "woman"?
If it's the appearance what makes you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If it's the "features" your body has that make you a man/woman, isn't that discrimination?
If having breast implants etc makes you a woman, then does removal of breasts (because of cancer for example) make you a man?
DNA is the only acceptable definer of gender, in my opinion. I was born a man, you were born a man/woman. I say "deal with it". Just like I couldn't choose who my parents were. So if you see a person that has red hair but was born with brown hair, would you call them a brown haired person? If someone looks and defines her self as a woman, who are you to say that she isnt one? We call people "unnatural blondes" if they dye their hair blonde. We don't call people with Pink or Green hair "natural", in fact we discriminate against these people having good jobs. You can't get good jobs with "unnatural hair colors", tattoos, or piercings. you can't have "unnatural hair color" at school, yet its someones life choice to dye their hair, yet we're okay discriminating against people that want to express themselves, yet we won't discriminate against people that want to express their sexual selves.
I study International Relations and Psychology and have touched upon Gender and Transsexualism and all the other areas that are involved in such a decision multiple times. I was going to write a long post regarding your argument earlier but I will refrain from that now. You simply jump on every criticism of this and add random claims and opinions simply to derail this discussion in my opinion. It is not worth arguing when you are not willing to engage in a discussion with a brick wall of an argument that is neither informed nor open to the input others give.
Before you keep posting, I suggest you inform yourself and think about the fact that the things you write are not only vast generalizations but also extremely hurtful to people who have, for example, GID. I have a friend who is a MtF transsexual and she didn't undergo surgery because she wanted to play with barbies or thought that society put too much pressure on her. It was something she felt since she can remember. She is a woman, she is not a a weird freak, she is not someone we need to protect by bettering ourselves and she is not unnatural. How do you define unnatural? Is it natural to live a life you feel you cannot live? Who are you to say what is natural and unnatural? Do you think we shouldn't treat diseases because treatment affects the "natural" make-up of our bodies? Do you not strive for personal fulfillment and happiness? Things aren't as easy as you make them out to be.
|
I am wondering why she revealed her past.
If she had just kept quiet about this, none of this would have happened.
|
The subtitles on that video is so fucked.. anyway ontopic: She should be allowed imo if she isn't you have to draw a line somewhere where how much plastic surgery is allowed? Only boobs? Well then you need to disqualify probably lots of them
|
On April 03 2012 19:30 judochopaction wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina.
BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived. the whole point is you wouldnt change because you think of yourself as a man. thats why she changed herself because she was a woman with male body parts.
so then it comes to the issue of why he felt like a woman despite being born a man.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On April 03 2012 19:34 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:30 judochopaction wrote:On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina.
BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived. the whole point is you wouldnt change because you think of yourself as a man. thats why she changed herself because she was a woman with male body parts. so then it comes to the issue of why he felt like a woman despite being born a man.
According to you, its because of all the "social issues society has pressed on him". -.- There's much more logical conclusions than that my friend.
|
On April 03 2012 19:34 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:30 judochopaction wrote:On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina.
BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived. the whole point is you wouldnt change because you think of yourself as a man. thats why she changed herself because she was a woman with male body parts. so then it comes to the issue of why he felt like a woman despite being born a man. User was temp banned for this post.
i am born a man and i am attracted to males. i have no idea why and honestly wish i wasnt. but its how it is, so i live with it. care to shed some light?
|
On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:15 QUEENT wrote:
To all the "people" (yes, you deserve the quotes at this moment) in this thread who somehow think that this woman is not a woman for whatever reason, please address the following points:
1. This woman is legally female in her home country, and the country in which this event is taking place.
2. Her status as a transwoman confers no competitive advantage over her cisgendered peers.
3. Canada has laws that prohibit discrimination against transgendered people.
Also, please answer this question: If you were discovered to have internal sex organs of sex opposite to the one you express, would you change how you lived your life in the slightest?
ok I'll bite. The legality of something doesn't make it honest or correct. She does have an advantage, she used hormones and plastic surgery and beat all the competition. That should be a no brainer. I bet you approve of steroid use in baseball as well. Yes, noone should discriminate against anyone, but at the same time, the contest is meant for people naturally born. he took the spot of another naturally born female by entering. you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina. BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived.
Your argument would actually make sense if no other Miss Universe contestants had plastic surgery done... Oh wait many of them have done it.
It has been estimated that 30 percent of Miss Universe contestants have had some sort of cosmetic work or plastic surgery done prior to the competition.
I would say that breast augmentation may be the most obvious. We can’t say for certain which contestants have had actual cosmetic work done, but the women are beautiful.
According to a Fox News article: “A source close to the Donald Trump-owned Miss Universe Organization [says] that not only is elective [plastic] surgery allowed, but it is quietly encouraged.”
http://www.zimbio.com/Miss Universe/articles/zyOO45q409y/Plastic Surgery Allowed Miss Universe Contestants
|
On April 03 2012 19:39 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 19:25 Spieltor wrote:On April 03 2012 19:15 QUEENT wrote:
To all the "people" (yes, you deserve the quotes at this moment) in this thread who somehow think that this woman is not a woman for whatever reason, please address the following points:
1. This woman is legally female in her home country, and the country in which this event is taking place.
2. Her status as a transwoman confers no competitive advantage over her cisgendered peers.
3. Canada has laws that prohibit discrimination against transgendered people.
Also, please answer this question: If you were discovered to have internal sex organs of sex opposite to the one you express, would you change how you lived your life in the slightest?
ok I'll bite. The legality of something doesn't make it honest or correct. She does have an advantage, she used hormones and plastic surgery and beat all the competition. That should be a no brainer. I bet you approve of steroid use in baseball as well. Yes, noone should discriminate against anyone, but at the same time, the contest is meant for people naturally born. he took the spot of another naturally born female by entering. you're saying if I were to have ovaries and suddenly discover it later in life, I'd change? Probably not, seeing as doctors would've discovered this upon birth or I'd die from PMS having no outlet, as I have no vagina. BUt lets assume we live in fairy land where someone can magically grow internal sex organs inconsistent with their body's birth gender. I'd have them removed and continue to live as I always lived. Your argument would actually make sense if no other Miss Universe contestants had plastic surgery done... Oh wait many of them have done it. Show nested quote +It has been estimated that 30 percent of Miss Universe contestants have had some sort of cosmetic work or plastic surgery done prior to the competition.
I would say that breast augmentation may be the most obvious. We can’t say for certain which contestants have had actual cosmetic work done, but the women are beautiful.
According to a Fox News article: “A source close to the Donald Trump-owned Miss Universe Organization [says] that not only is elective [plastic] surgery allowed, but it is quietly encouraged.” http://www.zimbio.com/Miss Universe/articles/zyOO45q409y/Plastic Surgery Allowed Miss Universe Contestants
I said the same thing twice and he just ignored me. I honestly think he was just a troll trying to derail the thread seeing as he ignored very valid arguments throughout.
|
thank you kwark for modding this thread so well, and all the others being supportive/positive ♥
|
I promised myself I wasn't going to post in this thread, but here I am. I'm not going to address anyone particularly, but I'll just go with my unusual optimism of assuming they really mean well but just ultimately don't know what they're talking about. I'm aware that to do so I'd have to ignore the content of many of their posts, but I'm going to do so anyway. I'm sure this discussion will carry on with people seeing the length of my post and deciding that my well reasoned, and cited arguements aren't really worth reading if it'll challenge their preconceptions either way sadly.
First, and most importantly, biological sex and gender identity are completely different things. First I'll provide evidence for this statement, and then show how it immediatly invalidates many of the "he's a man" comments.
Gender identity is something that pretty much everyone has, when someone says they're male or female they don't first check their physical attributes, they know who they are. If a man was disembodied somehow his gender wouldn't suddenly become "not applicable" he'd still be a man, albeit a maybe distressed and confused one. If we were to then place that person's mind in to a naturally female body, he wouldn't suddenly be female, who he was as a core identity would still remain. If you accept this as accurate then you have to accept one of two possibilities, either there is some physical component in the brain that results in gender identity, or that gender identity is somehow inate and unchanging part of a person's identity. If you accept either of those, then unless nature were infallible, you would have to accept the possibility of transsexuals who literally were men or women, as they expressed.
First to site some studies to prove that there are in fact physical brain differences in transsexuals specifically relating to expected gender norms. The following are a few examples, which between them don't actually all agree with the causes, but all provide evidence and examples that their are physical masculine or feminine differences in the brains of trans people.
White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study
The microstructure of white matter in male to female transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment
Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism
Given then that there are physical differences in the brains of trans people, who are you to decide based on what they looked like at birth that their gender identity is what you think it is? If we are to ignore the physical evidence and instead decide that gender identity is an unchanging aspect of identity that does not have a physical basis in the brain, then how can you ignore the pyschologists who have observed transseualism exists and therefore that those people are men or women? Or does the identity of the person you're talking to or about take a back seat to what you think they look like?
No matter which way you slice it, it is not simply a matter of deciding to change gender, with our current understanding of science that's impossible, but rather conforming to one's gender. For all of this to be the case, it necessarily follows that gender and sex are not the same thing.
Well ok, you might say, they're still biologically male (to use trans women as the example for a moment, since most people seem to have less issue with trans men for some reason) and are unable to reproduce and so it's my right to hold the view that I can deride them and refer to them as "he".
First to the biologically male part, as addressed in the previous section they're no biologically male, there are physical brain differences in the identity of trans people. But you of course mean genetics. There are frankly so many different pseudo scientific points made that it would be almost impossible for me to address them all so instead I'm going to make several points which refute most of them.
Many women who're also born genetically female (cis gendered) are unfortunately unable to reproduce, sometimes as the result of genetics, and other times as the result of organs not forming correctly in a fetus. There are cis women who have testicles inside them, there are some who're born without a vagina, others still who're even born with a penis. Are we to tell these women that they are infact men? There are XX women, XY women, and XXY women, are you going to argue that we should screen everyone for their genetic make up before deciding on their sex (and also deciding that their sex and gender are identical by the power vested in you)?
Along with the above, you have no idea on the genetic make up of trans women. There are studies to suggest that they have, on average, a higher reaction to androgen. This would mean that in the womb, these individuals would be far more likely to take on male sexual appearance, regardless of their genetic history. They could in fact be perfectly healthy boys, and maybe even men too but the fact remains that nature makes mistakes. Further, you also have no idea at the chromosome make up of these women either and even if they were all XY, that would only prove once again that sex and gender are different things.
Finally, even if were to grant your unfounded opinions as fact and that we should call people based on their genitals as babys, then to what end are we insulting people? What reasons are there for seperating people, talking to their genitals rather than to the person as they are? Where does this leave trans people in your society? Should we ban the surgical options? There are already a minimum of 2 years of pyschological reviews before any surgery which picks out many of those who're not in fact transsexuals, do you think 10 years would help?* Is being a specific gender in fact a mental illness? The suicide rate amongst transsexuals is already far higher than in the rest of society, and it is proven that transitioning reduces that risk dramatically.**
*Harry Benjamin Standards of Care
**Psychosocial characteristics of applicants evaluated for surgical gender reassignment
I ask again then, what benefit is there in you deciding, in the face of the evidence, that everyone must be as you are - with the gender identity and biological sex being in allignment? It serves no practical, health, safety, or legal benefit and insulting people should hardly be seen as a positive (and when you intentionally call any woman "he" it is insulting).
Transsexuals exist, it sucks, but it's not your place to tell them who they are what they must be. it is not your place to insult them or to decide that all women must be defined as sex objects. Your personal comfort on a matter has no bearing on the actual gender identity of other human beings.
That being said, what I'm about to say will shock many people, she should have been removed from that competition. On signing up she signed a contract saying she was "Naturally born female" and it's clear what the organisers meant by that. At that point the competition should have been challenged, but she signed the contract in bad faith and that was not the right course of action.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
