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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 71

Forum Index > General Forum
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 16:21:12
July 17 2012 16:17 GMT
#1401
Actually, I don't really want to go there. This is getting too close to off-topic as it is.

There definitely seems to be a lot of unreliable witnesses in the case. I wonder if Corey's prosecution is responsible.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
appletree
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark109 Posts
July 17 2012 16:23 GMT
#1402
On July 18 2012 01:06 RCMDVA wrote:
Pick the state with the most liberal gun laws :

A) Texas
B) Alaska
C) Vermont

If you don't know the answer, then you really miss the big picture about guns & the US.


The reason we ask questions is because we don't get, and understand why, there's such a huge need for owning a gun.

- So it's better to defend yourself with a gun, when being attacked by a robber with a gun, then defending yourself, by physical means, against a robber with no gun, whether or not you're literally outnumbered, or physically outmatched ?
I'd say i've rather be robbed and get a beating, than shooting someone, or winding up in a firefight, even if it is selfdefence.
I can gurantee you, that shooting someone takes much more of a toll on you, than getting beaten, and robbed.
This is my point of view, and personal experience.
a
RCMDVA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 16:43:08
July 17 2012 16:23 GMT
#1403
No the answer is Vermont.

They have 3 gun laws (aside from the Federal ones)

Don't carry in a school.
Don't carry in a school bus.
Can't sell a gun to someone under 16 unless they have their parents permission.

Universial concealed/open carry. You can do it whenever/whereever you want. No permits at all.


Alaska is close, and Texas has some horrible CC laws they are still dealing with. And I still think you can't open carry in Texas.
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
July 17 2012 16:29 GMT
#1404
On July 18 2012 01:17 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:16 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:59 Lightwip wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:56 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:51 Lightwip wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:47 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:36 Lightwip wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:31 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:12 Lightwip wrote:
On July 18 2012 00:08 Arghmyliver wrote:
[quote]


I can understand a light-gauge hunting rifle - but there is little reason for any civilian to have a large-caliber automatic weapon - which they sell in the US for hunting purposes. In general - I think US citizens are quick to think a gun will make them strong. Unfortuantely - they are not as quick to think about the consequences and responsibility of firing that weapon. If you fire your gun - you need to be aware that you are reponsible for every bullet and everything said bullet(s) does.

Reasonable position to hold; there's plenty of reason to want to limit the more dangerous guns. Not doing so would be considered a radical position on the issue. So would be absolutely banning weapons.
Not that radical necessarily means wrong.


Call me a troll, but US should start banning firearms. It may look as the " pre WW2 GREATEST PROHIBITION" but in fact , no one needs guns/ pistolz/lazersaberz, guns aren't drugs (alcohol) so you cannot justigy living a life without it, "we" do not need them. The sad story is the whole thing is out of control when speaking about US. More than fifteen years ago I wanted to have a life in US, luckily for me after so many years and getting close to middle age I see that I was wrong, US is the last place to be speaking in terms of basic opportunities, being secure, and not get shot in the middle of the street (pun intended)

You are actually pretty clueless about guns and their place in the lives of people in the US.
It's like me saying that your country is just a bunch of ungrateful whiners who never could appreciate the good graces of the USSR.


I beg to differ, I would not try to live in a society that makes use of guns on their whim (hope I spelled it correctly).
That's not sane, also I feel more secure in Europe, just because of USSR , now seriously, things designed to kill peoples should be outright banned, I hope you agree with me.

As I said, you are extremely clueless as to how guns are used in the US. You don't know very much about American culture nor about gun use other than what you hear from news stories.
Don't pretend you know anything about US culture when your experience is only biased second-hand accounts.


I do not need to experience the US culture first hand when everyone knows that you are not that safe in US, pretty much anyone can acquire a firearm and use it without much hustle, that's a clear sign for me to stay away, tho I wish things in US were more civil.

Case in point. You know nothing.
The only truth about that is that it is easy to acquire firearms. Everything else you said is absolutely wrong.


Just don't, please don't , don't try to lie yourself, sometimes a person outside the box have a clear wide view of the box compared to the one inside it

Yeah.
With my brilliant foreigner insight, I can tell you that you really should just become a client state of Russia because it's the right thing to do.


Why are you mixing Russia in this discussion ? Hell, we are that close to fostering an US base (part of the missile shield)
Now seriously, if you have something really good to add, please do so, just refrain yourself from cheap trolling.
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
July 17 2012 16:30 GMT
#1405
On July 18 2012 01:23 appletree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:06 RCMDVA wrote:
Pick the state with the most liberal gun laws :

A) Texas
B) Alaska
C) Vermont

If you don't know the answer, then you really miss the big picture about guns & the US.


The reason we ask questions is because we don't get, and understand why, there's such a huge need for owning a gun.

- So it's better to defend yourself with a gun, when being attacked by a robber with a gun, then defending yourself, by physical means, against a robber with no gun, whether or not you're literally outnumbered, or physically outmatched ?
I'd say i've rather be robbed and get a beating, than shooting someone, or winding up in a firefight, even if it is selfdefence.
I can gurantee you, that shooting someone takes much more of a toll on you, than getting beaten, and robbed.
This is my point of view, and personal experience.

You would rather be beaten to death than have a weapon you could use to defend yourself? I suppose you think that sounds noble, but to me it just seems childishly naive.

And what about women and the elderly? I suppose you think they deserve whatever happens to them at the hands of young male criminals?
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
July 17 2012 16:50 GMT
#1406
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
July 17 2012 16:57 GMT
#1407
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm


Why are you bringing race into this?
HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
July 17 2012 16:58 GMT
#1408
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

You got to be freaking joking
The romanian whites ? wtf are you talking about dude, we do not have such kind of discrimination.
Also, care to show us how many murders were caused by firearms ?! (I think you can use your toes to count them)
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 17:14:06
July 17 2012 17:08 GMT
#1409
On July 18 2012 01:23 appletree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:06 RCMDVA wrote:
Pick the state with the most liberal gun laws :

A) Texas
B) Alaska
C) Vermont

If you don't know the answer, then you really miss the big picture about guns & the US.


The reason we ask questions is because we don't get, and understand why, there's such a huge need for owning a gun.

- So it's better to defend yourself with a gun, when being attacked by a robber with a gun, then defending yourself, by physical means, against a robber with no gun, whether or not you're literally outnumbered, or physically outmatched ?
I'd say i've rather be robbed and get a beating, than shooting someone, or winding up in a firefight, even if it is selfdefence.
I can gurantee you, that shooting someone takes much more of a toll on you, than getting beaten, and robbed.
This is my point of view, and personal experience.

by banning guns you make it so that only criminals carry them

think about that for a second - the robber is the criminal in your example

edit - sorry for going off topic, not going to do so anymore in the thread, promise!
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
July 17 2012 17:15 GMT
#1410
On July 18 2012 01:57 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm


Why are you bringing race into this?

When drawing comparisons between the two countries you need to account for demographic differences.

On July 18 2012 01:58 HomeWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

You got to be freaking joking
The romanian whites ? wtf are you talking about dude, we do not have such kind of discrimination.
Also, care to show us how many murders were caused by firearms ?! (I think you can use your toes to count them)

Romania is almost entirely white and has a quite high murder rate for a white country. This reflects possible problems with your government policies, for example gun control.

I don't think the people killed in Romania are too grateful they were killed by some means other than a firearm. Stabbing or beating deaths are a lot more horrific.
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
July 17 2012 17:18 GMT
#1411
On July 18 2012 02:15 Portlandian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:57 Zorkmid wrote:
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm


Why are you bringing race into this?

When drawing comparisons between the two countries you need to account for demographic differences.

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:58 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

You got to be freaking joking
The romanian whites ? wtf are you talking about dude, we do not have such kind of discrimination.
Also, care to show us how many murders were caused by firearms ?! (I think you can use your toes to count them)

Romania is almost entirely white and has a quite high murder rate for a white country. This reflects possible problems with your government policies, for example gun control.

I don't think the people killed in Romania are too grateful they were killed by some means other than a firearm. Stabbing or beating deaths are a lot more horrific.


You mean that they look worse on television.

In practice, most people don't want to be killed at all, and being shot is probably just as painful as anything else.
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
Portlandian
Profile Joined July 2012
Belgium153 Posts
July 17 2012 17:26 GMT
#1412
On July 18 2012 02:18 Praetorial wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 02:15 Portlandian wrote:
On July 18 2012 01:57 Zorkmid wrote:
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm


Why are you bringing race into this?

When drawing comparisons between the two countries you need to account for demographic differences.

On July 18 2012 01:58 HomeWorld wrote:
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

You got to be freaking joking
The romanian whites ? wtf are you talking about dude, we do not have such kind of discrimination.
Also, care to show us how many murders were caused by firearms ?! (I think you can use your toes to count them)

Romania is almost entirely white and has a quite high murder rate for a white country. This reflects possible problems with your government policies, for example gun control.

I don't think the people killed in Romania are too grateful they were killed by some means other than a firearm. Stabbing or beating deaths are a lot more horrific.


You mean that they look worse on television.

In practice, most people don't want to be killed at all, and being shot is probably just as painful as anything else.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is silly to bother comparing weapons used in murders because the problem is the murder not the means.

I just don't get why someone would be proud to have fewer gun deaths and more stabbings or beating deaths. They seem like horrific ways to die and no consolation at all to the victim.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
July 17 2012 17:37 GMT
#1413
This is a reminder that this is not a thread about gun control. Please stick to the specific case being discussed.
Moderator
50bani
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Romania480 Posts
July 17 2012 17:45 GMT
#1414
On July 18 2012 01:58 HomeWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 01:50 Portlandian wrote:
On July 17 2012 23:58 HomeWorld wrote:
It may sound silly, but I'm quite fond of the current policy regarding firearms in my country. Not many ppl can wear firearms without a good reason and it shows, there are close to none incidents so far.
Maybe US should get over the "wild wild west era" and start banning firearms. Keep in mind, main weapons use is for killing not for defending .. :S

Gun control doesn't work, unless your goal is to disarm law-abiding citizens and leave them at the mercy of criminals or government. When you blame guns you are misidentifying the source of the problem. Crime is committed by humans, not firearms. In the absence of firearms crime increases. This is a logical result. When you disarm their victims criminals become emboldened.

I looked up some statistics for Romania and it is not as rosy as you seem to think. Romania had a murder rate of 7 per 100,000 in 2000.
http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/RO/crime.html

The demographics of Romania are almost entirely white European.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Romania

When you check American homicide statistics by race, you discover that white Americans had a peak murder rate of 6.4 in 1980, but it was down to 3.5 in 2000 where it has remained. So Romanian whites are about 2x more likely to commit murder than American whites, despite Americans presumably having more access to firearms.

[image loading]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

You got to be freaking joking
The romanian whites ? wtf are you talking about dude, we do not have such kind of discrimination.
Also, care to show us how many murders were caused by firearms ?! (I think you can use your toes to count them)

Quick points
Many countries have high gun ownership and lower, in fact much lower murder rates compared to the US. It is hard to find corelations between gun ownership and murder rates.
Within the US, you can compare the states and I think you can not find a negative corelation between gun control laws and murder rates.
The USA has a very high crime rate for a developed country, that's it. Guns have nothing to do with it
I'm posting on twoplustwo because I have always been amazed at the level of talent that populates this site --- it's almost unparalleled on the Internet.
50bani
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Romania480 Posts
July 17 2012 17:50 GMT
#1415
On July 18 2012 02:37 GMarshal wrote:
This is a reminder that this is not a thread about gun control. Please stick to the specific case being discussed.

Apparently it is a relevant discussion, and since we are at it, if guns were not involved in this incident, Travyon Martin would almost certainly not have died. If people feel it is relevant to the subject, why should they not bring it into the discussion?
I'm posting on twoplustwo because I have always been amazed at the level of talent that populates this site --- it's almost unparalleled on the Internet.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
July 17 2012 18:03 GMT
#1416
On July 18 2012 02:50 50bani wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 02:37 GMarshal wrote:
This is a reminder that this is not a thread about gun control. Please stick to the specific case being discussed.

Apparently it is a relevant discussion, and since we are at it, if guns were not involved in this incident, Travyon Martin would almost certainly not have died. If people feel it is relevant to the subject, why should they not bring it into the discussion?

I can think of two reasons.

First, on TL, gun control debates have a nasty tendency to get ugly very quickly, and it could easily ruin this thread that's not REALLY about guns.

Second, gun control debates never go anywhere. Both sides point to anecdotal evidence or horribly biased statistics, and no progress is ever made.



To the people saying they'd rather be beaten and robbed than have to shoot someone; how do you know they will only take your money, and not your life as well? If you're dead, you can't pick them out of a police line-up, so they may actually WANT to kill you. Second, even if they don't intend to kill you, how do you know the beating will end before you're mortally wounded? Even if they don't kill you, how do you know you won't be permanently disfigured or disabled?
Who called in the fleet?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
July 17 2012 18:11 GMT
#1417
On July 18 2012 03:03 Millitron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 02:50 50bani wrote:
On July 18 2012 02:37 GMarshal wrote:
This is a reminder that this is not a thread about gun control. Please stick to the specific case being discussed.

Apparently it is a relevant discussion, and since we are at it, if guns were not involved in this incident, Travyon Martin would almost certainly not have died. If people feel it is relevant to the subject, why should they not bring it into the discussion?

I can think of two reasons.

First, on TL, gun control debates have a nasty tendency to get ugly very quickly, and it could easily ruin this thread that's not REALLY about guns.

Second, gun control debates never go anywhere. Both sides point to anecdotal evidence or horribly biased statistics, and no progress is ever made.



To the people saying they'd rather be beaten and robbed than have to shoot someone; how do you know they will only take your money, and not your life as well? If you're dead, you can't pick them out of a police line-up, so they may actually WANT to kill you. Second, even if they don't intend to kill you, how do you know the beating will end before you're mortally wounded? Even if they don't kill you, how do you know you won't be permanently disfigured or disabled?

That you can point out the obvious issues in having a gun control debate and then commit those very grievances yourself speaks volumes. Hypotheticals are not helpful. More to the point, the idiosyncrasies of Florida's laws make these general debates even more useless.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Forgottenfrog
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States1268 Posts
July 17 2012 18:24 GMT
#1418
I thought there was an update or something worth discussing since the Trayvon Martin thread got bumped. Sadly, its just a bunch of fools debating about gun control.

User was warned for this post
Enzymatic
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1301 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 18:49:48
July 17 2012 18:48 GMT
#1419
On July 18 2012 02:50 50bani wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 02:37 GMarshal wrote:
This is a reminder that this is not a thread about gun control. Please stick to the specific case being discussed.

Apparently it is a relevant discussion, and since we are at it, if guns were not involved in this incident, Travyon Martin would almost certainly not have died. If people feel it is relevant to the subject, why should they not bring it into the discussion?


You directly contradicted yourself in your second post in regards to what you said in your first post.

In your first post, you state that guns have nothing to do with murder rate, and basically call them irrelevant.

In your second post you talk about how guns are relevant.

You're all over the place.
"Who hired this awful fountain gunner? He can't hit shit." - Yiss
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
July 17 2012 18:51 GMT
#1420
I don't think you can talk about this case and not talk about the legitimacy of "responsible" gun ownership. This case was sensationalized for its cultural undertones. Guns (and racism) are the only reason this thread exists. But, let's pretend otherwise.

The fact of the matter is guns aren't body-armor. They don't protect people in their everyday lives. Owning a gun will not prevent you from being shot when someone points one at you and pulls the trigger -- in fact, one might say it only increases the possibility. We manufacture a lot of guns, due to their legitimacy in this country. And the results continue to speak for themselves. Zimmerman was a legal gun-owner. Aren't we glad? But surely, he was the worst case scenario. It's not like legally-owned firearms are taking innocent lives on a regular basis. Let's keep the gun industry robust and healthy, because the criminals aren't benefiting from that in the slightest. And please, please, lets not make each other uncomfortable by having to talk about it. Pfffffffffffffffffffft.
Big water
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