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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:05 xDaunt wrote: Is De la Rionda even capable of asking a question that isn't leading? EDIT: Yes, I know this is cross. But still. This is basically his witness. even on cross leading isnt always allowed. its only for adverse witnesses. and, yes, de la rionda commonly asks leading questions, but O'Mara doesnt object a lot. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:04 Kaitlin wrote: How about Zimmerman's face, combined with Trayvon having gotten out of Zimmerman's sight before Zimmerman even got out of his car. Trayvon had no impediment to getting home, instead the altercation occurred at the T, which is basically where Trayvon went out of Zimmerman's sight. Trayvon decided there was to be an altercation as demonstrated by their relative locations as of the time GZ got out of his car, to when Trayvon died. Presence of wounds does not prove he was the defender, just the loser. Trayvon running from Zimmerman does not prove anything other than it was Trayvon running from Zimmerman. Trayvon was not required to return home, especially if he's rattled. Zimmerman was not required to follow someone who, as he said, "always get away." Zimmerman did bring a gun to a dangerous situation. Zimmerman did shoot the gun at a kid walking home. There is a witness that testifies that Trayvon yelled "get off, get off" Another witness saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, but only after the altercation had already started. This means there is no evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman. What there is evidence of is that John Good asked Trayvon to stop and Trayvon didn't. That means that anything that had happened prior to that means nothing. Zimmerman could have started the fight and Trayvon got the upper hand. Trayvon could also have surprised Zimmerman causing the injuries. His girlfriend's testimony suggests Zimmerman started it--but with Good's testimony it shows that the situation was resolved (essentially), Trayvon should have stopped when Good was there asking him to stop. Trayvon didn't, and for that Trayvon got shot. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:09 Junichi wrote: I'd put my money on the guy who has the gun and thus feels powerful enough to follow what he thinks is right to hold up the law. agree with Junichi. I think Zimmerman got himself into a situation he couldn't handle. He probably felt powerful when he got the gun. You guys also forget that Zimmerman assault a police officer and had a big spat with his previous ex(punished her in the face) so two can play at that game(@ bolded  ). | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:09 Junichi wrote: I'd put my money on the guy who has the gun and thus feels powerful enough to follow what he thinks is right to hold up the law. But in this specific case it is not clear to me, so I was curious what convinced you. Thanks. Question for you: If you have a gun and are approaching someone who you believe to be dangerous and you yourself feel powerful with your gun, wouldn't you draw it upon approach to be safe and feel even more powerful? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:11 Kaitlin wrote: The chief that resigned. This should be good... Really? This could be spectacular. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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Junichi
Germany1056 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:13 Dosey wrote: Question for you: If you have a gun and are approaching someone who you believe to be dangerous and you yourself feel powerful with your gun, wouldn't you draw it upon approach to be safe and feel even more powerful? Not if I am also under the illusion that I am a policeman like figure that's just approaching an undesirable subject. Approaching with your gun drawn would be too much of a criminal like beahavior imo. I'd just rest assured that I am safe, should he attack me. And maybe because I am not experienced with fighting I get to close so I don't have time to employ the gun in a timely fashion. But this is speculation ofc. As I said I was just curious what convinced you. I wouldn't agree, but if you feel that's enough for you, that is fine ofc. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:13 Dosey wrote: Question for you: If you have a gun and are approaching someone who you believe to be dangerous and you yourself feel powerful with your gun, wouldn't you draw it upon approach to be safe and feel even more powerful? The only person who knows if the gun was holstered at the time is the defendant and the victim. Some believe it was visible, possibly held. Others don't think so. But we are talking about someone who was trying to become a cop, who took MMA classes, and does his neighborhood watch duty armed. So use your judgement on whether you think a person like that would walk up to his suspect with his gun out or not. The only people who know is Zimmerman and a dead kid--and Zimmerman can't afford to say "yes he had his gun out." | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:17 MrCon wrote: Why are they focusing on that tape so much ? want to know who was screaming. if it was trayvon then self defense seems unlikely; if it was zimmerman then self defense appears at least supported. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:17 MrCon wrote: Why are they focusing on that tape so much ? Because it's a key part of the prosecution's case. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:17 Thieving Magpie wrote: The only person who knows if the gun was holstered at the time is the defendant and the victim. Some believe it was visible, possibly held. Others don't think so. But we are talking about someone who was trying to become a cop, who took MMA classes, and does his neighborhood watch duty armed. So use your judgement on whether you think a person like that would walk up to his suspect with his gun out or not. The only people who know is Zimmerman and a dead kid--and Zimmerman can't afford to say "yes he had his gun out." And also who has an history of violence and is perhaps racist if I read OP right. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:16 Kaitlin wrote: From personal experience, I have to disagree that carrying a concealed weapon makes you feel "powerful" in confrontations with unarmed combatants. It makes you feel extremely vulnerable because you have to always keep your mind on weapon retention and the very troubles in dealing with "unarmed" combatants relative to appropriate use of force. Question for you then--if you're personally approaching someone you believed was a criminal; would you reveal your concealed gun in order to keep them honest or hide it in case they.... Why would you keep it hidden actually? | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:18 dAPhREAk wrote: want to know who was screaming. if it was trayvon then self defense seems unlikely; if it was zimmerman then self defense appears at least supported. Thanks ! (I understand they do that because it's a key piece of evidence, my question was why is it a key piece of evidence) It's funny watching that from France where cameras or any recorders aren't allowed in court) | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:09 Junichi wrote: I'd put my money on the guy who has the gun and thus feels powerful enough to follow what he thinks is right to hold up the law. But in this specific case it is not clear to me, so I was curious what convinced you. Thanks. This is a statement really only possible to be made by someone that doesn't have a concealed carry permit or knows little about people that do. Pretty much *no one* thinks that way. You simply don't carry to "hold up" the law; you carry to protect yourself. Also, IMPORTANT POINT: guns are terrible, terrible close-combat weapons. Which, along with the fact it'd be a crime to brandish a gun without good reason, is why Zimmerman wouldn't have the gun out. There's also the side issue that 1 bullet killing Martin is something of a fluke. Gun shot wounds are only about 5% fatal, as strange as that is. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:17 MrCon wrote: Why are they focusing on that tape so much ? the tape is pretty much all the prosecution has imo since the defense got them beat on several fronts. That and the screaming could prove/disprove the defense aspect. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:17 Thieving Magpie wrote: The only person who knows if the gun was holstered at the time is the defendant and the victim. Might we add anyone on the face of the Earth with a modicum of common sense. It's absolutely unreasonable to think that upon having a weapon drawn on you, that it's a good idea to being punching the person who is holding you at gunpoint, for an extended period of time without any effort being made to get that weapon. Common sense should tell even you that it's a ridiculous scenario that the gun was not holstered at the time of the attack. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:20 MrCon wrote: Thanks ! (I understand they do that because it's a key piece of evidence, my question was why is it a key piece of evidence) It's funny watching that from France where cameras or any recorders aren't allowed in court) In quite a number of States, it's actually up to the Judge whether cameras are allowed. Federal courts, for instance, pretty much don't even allow audio recording. So, it always depends. Florida, I believe, has "open" courts by law. Probably as a result of some previous problems. Though I'm sure the Judge & Defense aren't terribly appreciative of that law at the moment. | ||
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