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Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 304

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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.

If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 08 2013 20:30 GMT
#6061
whoever asked about the hearsay information. prosecutor moved to strike the hearsay statements apparently, but now has withdraw it because Mr. Martin testified (i.e., the issue is moot).
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 08 2013 20:30 GMT
#6062
On July 09 2013 05:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 05:13 Dosey wrote:
On July 09 2013 05:09 Junichi wrote:
On July 09 2013 05:07 Dosey wrote:
On July 09 2013 05:01 Junichi wrote:
On July 09 2013 04:59 Dosey wrote:
On July 09 2013 04:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:
This is sad. I feel really bad for this guy, regardless of what happens, he's lost his boy. I can't even imagine.

Perhaps if he taught his son to use words instead of fists, he would still be alive today. The parents are as much to blame as the children, if not more so.


What convinced you that TM attacked GZ?

Who is more likely to initiate a confrontation?

A short fat man who is physically incompetent tracking someone who he thinks may be dangerous.
Or a black youth with a history of violence that believes he is being followed by a creepy ass cracker for no apparent reason.

?????


I'd put my money on the guy who has the gun and thus feels powerful enough to follow what he thinks is right to hold up the law. But in this specific case it is not clear to me, so I was curious what convinced you. Thanks.


Question for you:

If you have a gun and are approaching someone who you believe to be dangerous and you yourself feel powerful with your gun, wouldn't you draw it upon approach to be safe and feel even more powerful?


The only person who knows if the gun was holstered at the time is the defendant and the victim. Some believe it was visible, possibly held. Others don't think so.

But we are talking about someone who was trying to become a cop, who took MMA classes, and does his neighborhood watch duty armed. So use your judgement on whether you think a person like that would walk up to his suspect with his gun out or not. The only people who know is Zimmerman and a dead kid--and Zimmerman can't afford to say "yes he had his gun out."

If his gun was out before the confrontation took place, it is highly improbable that the gunshot would would have been where it was. A struggle would not have taken place so close to the holster and the gun wouldn't have been fired at such an angle. Not to mention if the gun was drawn before hand, it is highly possible that the gun would have gone off when he first got hit plus Martin would have likely gotten the gun once gaining the upper hand instead of continuing to pound on GZ.

This is all of course ignoring the fact that no one with half a brain would assault someone who has them at gunpoint.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
July 08 2013 20:32 GMT
#6063
On July 09 2013 05:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 05:16 Kaitlin wrote:
From personal experience, I have to disagree that carrying a concealed weapon makes you feel "powerful" in confrontations with unarmed combatants. It makes you feel extremely vulnerable because you have to always keep your mind on weapon retention and the very troubles in dealing with "unarmed" combatants relative to appropriate use of force.


Question for you then--if you're personally approaching someone you believed was a criminal; would you reveal your concealed gun in order to keep them honest or hide it in case they.... Why would you keep it hidden actually?


Assuming facts as I believe them to be in this case, I would not have put myself in a position where I was able to be approached without appropriate time to react. I would arrange my clothes in such a way that my weapon was still concealed, yet I could easily and quickly access it, in other words, I would unzip my jacket for example. If Zimmerman went down that T a little bit, where it was extremely dark, making him vulnerable, that is where I would diverge from this scenario. I simply, being armed (or otherwise, I supposed) wouldn't have been close enough to any areas where I could be ambushed. If I were approached in a threatening way, I would command the person to 'Stop', identifying myself and if that failed, I would draw. Revealing the weapon without drawing is real life gangsta thug, or TV bullshit. If you display your weapon, you might as well draw it. It's the same usage of force.

Having said that, if I had some reason to believe the person was dangerous, which in this case I didn't, I may have the weapon already drawn. However, it's also likely that I would have simply remained in a safe place, if I thought the person was so dangerous to justify pre-emptively drawing a weapon.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 08 2013 20:33 GMT
#6064
"Procedural prejudice." Give me a break.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 08 2013 20:33 GMT
#6065
why dont you call for a mistrial then Mr. Prosecutor?
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
July 08 2013 20:34 GMT
#6066
On July 09 2013 05:22 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 05:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:
The only person who knows if the gun was holstered at the time is the defendant and the victim.


Might we add anyone on the face of the Earth with a modicum of common sense. It's absolutely unreasonable to think that upon having a weapon drawn on you, that it's a good idea to being punching the person who is holding you at gunpoint, for an extended period of time without any effort being made to get that weapon. Common sense should tell even you that it's a ridiculous scenario that the gun was not holstered at the time of the attack.


I said holstered, not pointed.

Although we also don't know if it was pointed.

The only testimonies we have.

-Rachael says that Trayvon said "get off" right before the altercation
-Good sees Trayvon winning the fight after the start of the altercation

Medical evidence only has proof for 1 punch and no proof disproving hypothetical following punches.

What evidence suggests is Zimmerman provoked Martin, causing Martin to hit him. This leads to a brawl witnessed by Good--Trayvon is perceived as winning the fight and he is asked to stop; he refuses and continues.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 08 2013 20:37 GMT
#6067
Here's a summary of this Richardson hearing about Donnolly:

Judge: "Okay, the guy listened to the tape after his deposition. So what?"

Prosecutor: "I don't know, I'm making shit up about being prejudiced."

Judge: "Shut the fuck up and sit down."
Microchaton
Profile Joined March 2011
France342 Posts
July 08 2013 20:37 GMT
#6068
What's happening exactly ?
Stormy
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 20:39:56
July 08 2013 20:39 GMT
#6069
On July 09 2013 05:37 xDaunt wrote:
Here's a summary of this Richardson hearing about Donnolly:

Judge: "Okay, the guy listened to the tape after his deposition. So what?"

Prosecutor: "I don't know, I'm making shit up about being prejudiced."

Judge: "Shut the fuck up and sit down."

haha good summary. Defense making a good point about them not playing it for him back at deposition.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 08 2013 20:40 GMT
#6070
On July 09 2013 05:37 Microchaton wrote:
What's happening exactly ?

debating whether defense violated discovery rules by not telling prosecutor that witness had heard the tape when he previously stated he did not hear the tape. prosecutor crying over spilt milk.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 08 2013 20:42 GMT
#6071
O'Mara: "I thought that they're cross examination of Mr. Donnolly was quite good."

Haha, O'Mara is trolling the prosecution.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 20:43:38
July 08 2013 20:43 GMT
#6072
Here's the other subtext of what's going on. The prosecution is trying very hard to straddle the line between claiming a real prejudice and admitting that they're dumbshits for not handling the situation better beforehand.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 20:44:54
July 08 2013 20:43 GMT
#6073
This is Appollo Justice-esque =)
Do we know why Zim followed Martin btw ? Did Martin had a legitimate reason to be here or was he really planning something suspicious ? Did Zim followed him just because he was black ?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
July 08 2013 20:43 GMT
#6074
Prosecution digging themselves a bigger hole. I can understand where they are coming from but from my perspective, it feels like it's their fault that they didn't ask him if he watched it earlier.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 08 2013 20:45 GMT
#6075
On July 09 2013 05:43 MrCon wrote:
This is Appollo Justice-esque =)
Do we know why Zim followed Martin btw ? Did Martin had a legitimate reason to be here or was he really planning something suspicious ?

whether zimmerman followed trayvon is up to debate. zimmerman denies it. trayvon told jeantel he was being followed.

trayvon had a legitimate reason to be there. his father's fiancee/girlfriend lives there and trayvon was a guest.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 20:46:40
July 08 2013 20:45 GMT
#6076
On July 09 2013 05:43 MrCon wrote:
This is Appollo Justice-esque =)
Do we know why Zim followed Martin btw ? Did Martin had a legitimate reason to be here or was he really planning something suspicious ?

Zimmerman's neighbourhood had a lot of robberies lately and he didn't recognize Martin. Martin was visiting his father gf's house as I recall and was getting candy and an arizona. He was walking in the rain and looking at houses according to Zimmerman.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
woody60707
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1863 Posts
July 08 2013 20:46 GMT
#6077
Will getting it enter in to court that Martin was high have a big impact?
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
July 08 2013 20:46 GMT
#6078
Thanks !
FatChicksUnited
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada214 Posts
July 08 2013 20:47 GMT
#6079
On July 09 2013 05:43 BigFan wrote:
Prosecution digging themselves a bigger hole. I can understand where they are coming from but from my perspective, it feels like it's their fault that they didn't ask him if he watched it earlier.

They asked him, but at the time of the deposition (two months ago), he had not yet seen the video. They also completely missed asking him about his military history.
Fat chicks need love too.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 20:48:54
July 08 2013 20:48 GMT
#6080
On July 09 2013 05:46 woody60707 wrote:
Will getting it enter in to court that Martin was high have a big impact?

for defense? they could say that he was high in line with what Zimmerman thought and that could've lead him to attack Zimmerman(contributed to the attack).

On July 09 2013 05:47 FatChicksUnited wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 05:43 BigFan wrote:
Prosecution digging themselves a bigger hole. I can understand where they are coming from but from my perspective, it feels like it's their fault that they didn't ask him if he watched it earlier.

They asked him, but at the time of the deposition (two months ago), he had not yet seen the video. They also completely missed asking him about his military history.

yes, sorry, I meant they didn't ask him recently.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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