On March 20 2012 07:50 Geiko wrote: We could also talk about "Mariane" and "L'Humanité" choice of articles... I don't see where the problem is that a right wing newspaper promotes right-wing ideas ?
This is surrender man..... at least these aren't owne by one of the closed friends of a candidate, and journalists aren't forced to write what the director's opinions dictate. You just know you are wrong there, don't be of such mauvaise foi
Le Monde (mostly center-left wing newspaper) is owned by Pierre Bergé, close friend of Mr Hollande.
On March 20 2012 07:50 Geiko wrote: We could also talk about "Mariane" and "L'Humanité" choice of articles... I don't see where the problem is that a right wing newspaper promotes right-wing ideas ?
This is surrender man..... at least these aren't owne by one of the closed friends of a candidate, and journalists aren't forced to write what the director's opinions dictate. You just know you are wrong there, don't be of such mauvaise foi
Le Monde (mostly center-left wing newspaper) is owned by Pierre Bergé, close friend of Mr Hollande.
How does this imply that 80% journalist are left wing ?
You might say i'm being paranoiac but I've come to really perceive things in a way few people perceive them, I look far behind what the medias say and I've learned to analyze and distrust everything that is said to the main audience. It is for 80% lies but few people realize it.
Of course I don't have proof of him being guilty of anything, and that's normal as he controls most of the justice system and has powerful relations, but there are many cases in wich the evidence is undeniable, did you forget about the numerous "Légions d'honneur" he gave to his friends while receiving in exchange and obviously in the dark funds for his campaign? The inventor of the médiator Jacques Servier, [le porteur de valises de la France-Afrique] Robert Bourgi, Patrice de Maistres who was in charge of the Bettencourt patrimony, and many many others that were all tied to corruption scandals...
Now you have your opinion, I have mine, and we'll see in may if there are enough naive people to vote for him or not.
On March 20 2012 07:50 Geiko wrote: We could also talk about "Mariane" and "L'Humanité" choice of articles... I don't see where the problem is that a right wing newspaper promotes right-wing ideas ?
This is surrender man..... at least these aren't owne by one of the closed friends of a candidate, and journalists aren't forced to write what the director's opinions dictate. You just know you are wrong there, don't be of such mauvaise foi
Le Monde (mostly center-left wing newspaper) is owned by Pierre Bergé, close friend of Mr Hollande.
How does this imply that 80% journalist are left wing ?
It doesn't. I was answering
at least these aren't owne by one of the closed friends of a candidate
The 80% figure is a personal opinion backed up by no numbers or facts. As are all the accusations of Sarkozy being implied in any of the affair that have been cited. I wonder why you guys have the right to post baseless accusations and then ask for sources on my stupid claims ^^
On March 20 2012 08:01 Incognoto wrote: None of the presidential candidates are remotely worth voting for. They're all either hugely incompetent or lying scum. It's actually pretty fucking stupid how bad the candidates these year are.
In the interest of not running the country further down shit creek highway though, I'm voting Sarkozy, as should everyone else. Hollande has no idea what he's doing and he'd be a huge fucking joke on an international scale...
But Sarkozy is like... MEH.
I would highly encourage you to read Mélenchon's program or watch this video
I used to think like you some months ago (minus the voting for Sarkozy part) and thought I would just vote Blank 1st round and anti-Sarkozy second.
I really enjoyed listening to Mélenchon as he's a great orator. Up to this point I thought all politics were hypocrites lying scums that would never initiate a fight against the powerful figures of our society and I was happily surprised by Mélenchon.
On March 20 2012 08:07 ArcticRaven wrote: Did the Le monde journalists have to write an open letter to change the way things are ruled ? No.
Did you give you source or the 80% ? No.
Left wing journalists for the newspapers I have cited also only write articles in favor of the left wing candidate. Only difference is that they don't complain about it. And once again, the letter was written by the left-wing syndicate of the journalists during a presidential campaign, which says much about their motivations.
Would you like to talk about real problems in France (public debt, financial crisis, unemployment, etc...) and the solutions put forward by each candidate now or would you rather we continue talking about Mr Sarkozy's yacht trips ?
thanks for the info man I always love knowing about other nations' politics. a few questions though from this american
you showed us about 5 candidates and their parties representations, but are there usually always a top 2 or 3 parties in the final long run? in America we have multiple parties but the only serious ones that have any chance which are democrats and republicans, there are green and socio etc etc but they have zero chance of getting far at all in the next 3 lifetimes. the closest a socialist ever got was 3 socialist town mayors in Wisconsin in the 90's. I know italy's parties can fluctuate between 3 or 4 major parties. is yours the same?
hows your voter turnout? the US' is like 70% of all possible voters at best
also in the beginning of your OP you said that you can be 18 become a candidate if you meet requirements of 500 supporters... has a youngling ever happened or who's your youngest ever?
On March 20 2012 08:01 Incognoto wrote: None of the presidential candidates are remotely worth voting for. They're all either hugely incompetent or lying scum. It's actually pretty fucking stupid how bad the candidates these year are.
In the interest of not running the country further down shit creek highway though, I'm voting Sarkozy, as should everyone else. Hollande has no idea what he's doing and he'd be a huge fucking joke on an international scale...
But Sarkozy is like... MEH.
I agree on one part : voting for Hollande would be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being (Artosis style), and actually nearly 40% of registered voters will do this. This guys lacks everything a leader should have. The socialists seems so retarded, disconnected would be a more accurate term.
But voting for Sarkozy would arguably be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being too : this guy is utter shit. He has countradicted himself so much time... He spent his first 3 years bling-blinging his way and looking like those pesky little dogs you can see at grandma's feet. Now suddenly he acts like he cares... and he fails dramatically again.
And guess what ? Those two will be 99% sure on the second turn. This is the true problem : we voters have no alternative. A vegetable or a pesky teckel. I don't even want to think about their program : those guys are far too intricated in so much shit their ideas have no real weight compared to the shit we're already in. Also, don't be fooled : they will do the same thing. You know why ? Hollande can't say no if you smash his fingers, and Sarkozy is already at Merckel & co.'s feet.
You want to vote for anyone else ? Enjoy your "useless" vote ; they even acknowledge it by saying "vote useful : vote for UMP/PS". I don't even understand the point of having more than 2 candidate (in fact, they're both awful, so one or another is the same as far as I'm concerned), any elections since the beginning of the 5th republic has been the same, with the very exception of 2002, where socialists where so shitty the National-Front passed them up in the first turn, and they made you think that "YOU HAVE TO VOTE CHIRAC, UNLESS GODWIN POINT EVERYWHERE" and then he got 82% of voices.
TL;DR : Voting Sarkozy is asking for salt in the anal rape we are already suffering ; voting Hollande is asking to take it in the mouth instead. Sadly, we don't have choice because any other candidate will lose at the first turn.
ahah I thought TL would be the last place where I could find discuss about the upcoming french election, I was wrong :/
I'm still undecided but it won't be sarkozy for sure. I just can't support him through these 5 years as all his governement (such as morano, gueant, hortefeux, Lefebvre, Besson, etc :r)
edit: Melenchon is the best orator out there, no doubt about that. hes clearly better at it than all the french politicains i've seen for a while but i'm concerned about his position towards china, his no words about a european protectionism as Todd well explained and the fact is a free masson for over 30 years.
On March 20 2012 08:18 Mvrio wrote: thanks for the info man I always love knowing about other nations' politics. a few questions though from this american you showed us about 5 candidates and their parties representations, but are there usually always a top 2 or 3 parties in the final long run? in America we have multiple parties but the only serious ones that have any chance which are democrats and republicans, there are green and socio etc etc but they have zero chance of getting far at all in the next 3 lifetimes. the closest a socialist ever got was 3 socialist town mayors in Wisconsin in the 90's. I know italy's parties can fluctuate between 3 or 4 major parties. is yours the same?
Fun fact #1: the third largest party in the US is the Libertarian party.
Fun fact #2: The LP hasn't been libertarian since Harry Browne passed away. (Badnarik wasn't too bad, but Barr..FUCKING CIA BARR. Kidding me...)
On March 20 2012 08:07 ArcticRaven wrote: Did the Le monde journalists have to write an open letter to change the way things are ruled ? No.
Did you give you source or the 80% ? No.
Left wing journalists for the newspapers I have cited also only write articles in favor of the left wing candidate. Only difference is that they don't complain about it. And once again, the letter was written by the left-wing syndicate of the journalists during a presidential campaign, which says much about their motivations.
Would you like to talk about real problems in France (public debt, financial crisis, unemployment, etc...) and the solutions put forward by each candidate now or would you rather we continue talking about Mr Sarkozy's yacht trips ?
Oh PLEASE. How can we talk about it since Sarkozy HAS NOT PUBLISHED his program. And each emission he was in, talked about his private life, of some useless measures like hallal etc, leaving schengen etc, to avoid talking about economy, employment, or the crisis... And please stop ignoring the answers backed up by number and figures (see my previous post) to only answer the baseless ones.
On March 20 2012 08:07 ArcticRaven wrote: Did the Le monde journalists have to write an open letter to change the way things are ruled ? No.
Did you give you source or the 80% ? No.
Left wing journalists for the newspapers I have cited also only write articles in favor of the left wing candidate. Only difference is that they don't complain about it. And once again, the letter was written by the left-wing syndicate of the journalists during a presidential campaign, which says much about their motivations.
Would you like to talk about real problems in France (public debt, financial crisis, unemployment, etc...) and the solutions put forward by each candidate now or would you rather we continue talking about Mr Sarkozy's yacht trips ?
Oh PLEASE. How can we talk about it since Sarkozy HAS NOT PUBLISHED his program. And each emission he was in, talked about his private life, of some useless measures like hallal etc, leaving schengen etc, to avoid talking about economy, employment, or the crisis... And please stop ignoring the answers backed up by number and figures (see my previous post) to only answer the baseless ones.
Don't be of "mauvaise foi", Sarkozy has presented his program through all of his meetings/ TV talk shows. A good portion of the shows were indeed about useless topics (the ones brought up by all of the pro-Hollande TL readers) that he had to answer to because that's the only thing the left-wing candidates have against him.
The numbers you have put forward don't take into account 2011, and none of them contradict directly what I have said. You claim that we should use some statistics rather than others without explaining why. Even if we do take your own statistics, we can clearly see that Sarkozy's economic balance-sheet shows good results when compared to other european countries, especially Spain and UK, two socialist run countries.
I'll try to steer the debate into a more constructive discussion now. What do you think about the fact that 90% of Hollande's program for France's balance for 2017 will be financed by increase in taxes ?
On March 20 2012 08:01 Incognoto wrote: None of the presidential candidates are remotely worth voting for. They're all either hugely incompetent or lying scum. It's actually pretty fucking stupid how bad the candidates these year are.
In the interest of not running the country further down shit creek highway though, I'm voting Sarkozy, as should everyone else. Hollande has no idea what he's doing and he'd be a huge fucking joke on an international scale...
But Sarkozy is like... MEH.
I agree on one part : voting for Hollande would be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being (Artosis style), and actually nearly 40% of registered voters will do this. This guys lacks everything a leader should have. The socialists seems so retarded, disconnected would be a more accurate term.
But voting for Sarkozy would arguably be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being too : this guy is utter shit. He has countradicted himself so much time... He spent his first 3 years bling-blinging his way and looking like those pesky little dogs you can see at grandma's feet. Now suddenly he acts like he cares... and he fails dramatically again.
And guess what ? Those two will be 99% sure on the second turn. This is the true problem : we voters have no alternative. A vegetable or a pesky teckel. I don't even want to think about their program : those guys are far too intricated in so much shit their ideas have no real weight compared to the shit we're already in. Also, don't be fooled : they will do the same thing. You know why ? Hollande can't say no if you smash his fingers, and Sarkozy is already at Merckel & co.'s feet.
You want to vote for anyone else ? Enjoy your "useless" vote ; they even acknowledge it by saying "vote useful : vote for UMP/PS". I don't even understand the point of having more than 2 candidate (in fact, they're both awful, so one or another is the same as far as I'm concerned), any elections since the beginning of the 5th republic has been the same, with the very exception of 2002, where socialists where so shitty the National-Front passed them up in the first turn, and they made you think that "YOU HAVE TO VOTE CHIRAC, UNLESS GODWIN POINT EVERYWHERE" and then he got 82% of voices.
TL;DR : Voting Sarkozy is asking for salt in the anal rape we are already suffering ; voting Hollande is asking to take it in the mouth instead. Sadly, we don't have choice because any other candidate will lose at the first turn.
You said it without saying it ; We have no choice. Whe are supposed to live in a democracy and the have to choose one man or woman between a bunch of dumbass bro. You know, democracy, the rule of the people by the people.
How the hell are they close to people? At least De Gaulle made his proof. And i'm deeply from the left. There's just nobody to reprensent french people.
I don't know, maybe whe have the candidates whe diserse. Dunno, all this compain just piss me off.
On March 20 2012 08:01 Incognoto wrote: None of the presidential candidates are remotely worth voting for. They're all either hugely incompetent or lying scum. It's actually pretty fucking stupid how bad the candidates these year are.
In the interest of not running the country further down shit creek highway though, I'm voting Sarkozy, as should everyone else. Hollande has no idea what he's doing and he'd be a huge fucking joke on an international scale...
But Sarkozy is like... MEH.
I agree on one part : voting for Hollande would be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being (Artosis style), and actually nearly 40% of registered voters will do this. This guys lacks everything a leader should have. The socialists seems so retarded, disconnected would be a more accurate term.
But voting for Sarkozy would arguably be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being too : this guy is utter shit. He has countradicted himself so much time... He spent his first 3 years bling-blinging his way and looking like those pesky little dogs you can see at grandma's feet. Now suddenly he acts like he cares... and he fails dramatically again.
And guess what ? Those two will be 99% sure on the second turn. This is the true problem : we voters have no alternative. A vegetable or a pesky teckel. I don't even want to think about their program : those guys are far too intricated in so much shit their ideas have no real weight compared to the shit we're already in. Also, don't be fooled : they will do the same thing. You know why ? Hollande can't say no if you smash his fingers, and Sarkozy is already at Merckel & co.'s feet.
You want to vote for anyone else ? Enjoy your "useless" vote ; they even acknowledge it by saying "vote useful : vote for UMP/PS". I don't even understand the point of having more than 2 candidate (in fact, they're both awful, so one or another is the same as far as I'm concerned), any elections since the beginning of the 5th republic has been the same, with the very exception of 2002, where socialists where so shitty the National-Front passed them up in the first turn, and they made you think that "YOU HAVE TO VOTE CHIRAC, UNLESS GODWIN POINT EVERYWHERE" and then he got 82% of voices.
TL;DR : Voting Sarkozy is asking for salt in the anal rape we are already suffering ; voting Hollande is asking to take it in the mouth instead. Sadly, we don't have choice because any other candidate will lose at the first turn.
You said it without saying it ; We have no choice. Whe are supposed to live in a democracy and the have to choose one man or woman between a bunch of dumbass bro. You know, democracy, the rule of the people by the people.
How the hell are they close to people? At least De Gaulle made his proof. And i'm deeply from the left. There's just nobody to reprensent french people.
I don't know, maybe whe have the candidates whe diserse. Dunno, all this compain just piss me off.
So you don't think of Mélenchon as a worthy candidate ? Did you watch "Des paroles et des actes" with him ?
edit: Melenchon is the best orator out there, no doubt about that. hes clearly better at it than all the french politicains i've seen for a while but i'm concerned about his position towards china, his no words about a european protectionism as Todd well explained and the fact is a free masson for over 30 years.
Why are there always people talking about franc-maçons... do you imagine it's like in movies where a secret society want to rule the world ?? The maçonnerie is just a place for debate where people from every political tendencies can talk etc...
On March 20 2012 08:01 Incognoto wrote: None of the presidential candidates are remotely worth voting for. They're all either hugely incompetent or lying scum. It's actually pretty fucking stupid how bad the candidates these year are.
In the interest of not running the country further down shit creek highway though, I'm voting Sarkozy, as should everyone else. Hollande has no idea what he's doing and he'd be a huge fucking joke on an international scale...
But Sarkozy is like... MEH.
I agree on one part : voting for Hollande would be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being (Artosis style), and actually nearly 40% of registered voters will do this. This guys lacks everything a leader should have. The socialists seems so retarded, disconnected would be a more accurate term.
But voting for Sarkozy would arguably be the biggest mistake ever made by a Human being too : this guy is utter shit. He has countradicted himself so much time... He spent his first 3 years bling-blinging his way and looking like those pesky little dogs you can see at grandma's feet. Now suddenly he acts like he cares... and he fails dramatically again.
And guess what ? Those two will be 99% sure on the second turn. This is the true problem : we voters have no alternative. A vegetable or a pesky teckel. I don't even want to think about their program : those guys are far too intricated in so much shit their ideas have no real weight compared to the shit we're already in. Also, don't be fooled : they will do the same thing. You know why ? Hollande can't say no if you smash his fingers, and Sarkozy is already at Merckel & co.'s feet.
You want to vote for anyone else ? Enjoy your "useless" vote ; they even acknowledge it by saying "vote useful : vote for UMP/PS". I don't even understand the point of having more than 2 candidate (in fact, they're both awful, so one or another is the same as far as I'm concerned), any elections since the beginning of the 5th republic has been the same, with the very exception of 2002, where socialists where so shitty the National-Front passed them up in the first turn, and they made you think that "YOU HAVE TO VOTE CHIRAC, UNLESS GODWIN POINT EVERYWHERE" and then he got 82% of voices.
TL;DR : Voting Sarkozy is asking for salt in the anal rape we are already suffering ; voting Hollande is asking to take it in the mouth instead. Sadly, we don't have choice because any other candidate will lose at the first turn.
You said it without saying it ; We have no choice. Whe are supposed to live in a democracy and the have to choose one man or woman between a bunch of dumbass bro. You know, democracy, the rule of the people by the people.
How the hell are they close to people? At least De Gaulle made his proof. And i'm deeply from the left. There's just nobody to reprensent french people.
I don't know, maybe whe have the candidates whe diserse. Dunno, all this compain just piss me off.
So you don't think of Mélenchon as a worthy candidate ? Did you watch "Des paroles et des actes" with him ?
The one with Le Pen lol? (with the "lol" you've my answer...)
EPT
