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Thanks Biff for this link :
http://decodeurs.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/05/03/erreurs-contreverites-et-controverses-du-debat/
I had no time to check the facts by myself.
On May 03 2012 20:03 Nouar wrote:
Hollande was cornered on retention centers, Sarkozy was forced to lie on several occasions, both used not false-not true figures and numbers, mostly too complicated for the common people.
He wasn't cornered, it was a mix of bluff and manipulation from Sarkozy :
+ Show Spoiler [source AFP] +France Terre d'Asile dénonce un "stratagème grossier" de Sarkozy
François Hollande "n'a jamais proposé la disparition des centres de rétention", a vivement réagi France Terre d'Asile (FTA), dénonçant un "stratagème grossier" utilisé par Nicolas Sarkozy qui a utilisé lors du débat présidentiel une lettre du socialiste à l'association.
Le président-candidat s'appuyant sur ce courrier public, a affirmé que son rival socialiste voulait supprimer les centres de rétention administrative (CRA) des étrangers en voie d'expulsion, ce que François Hollande a réfuté. "Cela relève du mensonge et de la manipulation. Jamais François Hollande n'a proposé la disparition des centres de rétention", a dénoncé auprès de l'AFP Pierre Henry, le directeur général de FTA.
Dans cette lettre, M. Hollande s'engage "à mettre fin dès mai 2012 à la rétention des enfants et donc des familles avec enfants" et à ce "que la rétention redevienne l'exception et non un instrument banal de procédure". Selon M. Henry, le candidat socialiste "s'est contenté de se conformer aux directives européennes qui recommandent que la rétention n'intervienne qu'en dernière analyse et que les Etats développent des alternatives" dont "l'assignation à résidence" des étrangers expulsables.
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Doesn't matter, the looks are what's important in a debate, and he got cornered on that topic, it looked like he was in a bad spot, and not all 20million will be checking afterwards.
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On May 03 2012 22:17 Nouar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 21:41 Incognoto wrote:
The problem with Hollande, as I've said before, is that he spent as much time attacking Sarkozy as he did bringing something new to the table. Obviously, you're supposed to do that in a debate, but he seems to be playing on "Sarkozy you fucked up, gtfo" rather than "here are the solutions I'm proposing to these problems". I don't agree to that. A campaign isn't about making a proposal a day, his program has been known for months, why do you want him to bring NEW things ? Nearly the whole 3hours were spent talking about his program... What do you want more ? Yeah he did attack Sarkozy, and he was probably not expecting it, it was well done. Perhaps a bit harsh, but that was to prove wrong people saying he's too soft I believe. These things and strategies are planned to have the desired effect. Sarkozy was the one who didn't propose anything. They barely spoke about what he was gonna do, and in that way, he was behind in the debate since he couldn't bring forth his ideas. Sarkozy is right about the idea of reducing immigration, to better accommodate them. Too many people come to France without adding anything to our society. If immigrants are just left alone without any support it's not good for them and it's not good for us. 60k students adding something to our country since they will work afterwards (if Gueant doesn't boot them all beforehand), 60k family, 30k economic immigration, and a few others (regularisations/asilum) up to 200k. How do you reduce it to 100k without damage ? Illegal immigration, on the other hand...... there's nothing hard at all about classes up until the collège (and even then). The material you're teaching is crap easy. It's retarded to want to add more teachers there. When I came from the USA to France, I got 17,5/20 on my first math test without studying. And I'm not even smart. Yup, but in 6e, many don't read or write correctly. There is a problem somewhere. Be it about classes, the method, the numbers, I don't know, but in french college (11-15yo), they write and read like shit when they enter it. I agree about continuing to use nuclear energy. Our reactors have never had a problem and we're damn good at using them. ;/ I agree, too, we should continue using and developing that technology. But old nuclear plants should be closed, instead of extending their lifespan by 10 years every 10 years. Dismantling a plant costs money. But keeping them alive for faaaar longer than they were intended to, saves money short-term, but increases risks in the long run. And in 10 years.... We'll have to close a hell of a lot of plants, which will cost A FUCKTON of money. Those lazy fucks work 18 hours a week, 8 months a year and they're still payed more than the minimum wage. I guess you never had to teach anything in your life. Both my parents were teachers (right wing, mind you), and I can assure you that the time spent preparing lessons and correcting exams is harsh. I hardly ever saw them in the evenings since they were busy working, and there are no place at school where they can work correctly. (One teacher room usually with like 5 desks for 60 teachers) A teacher in college has around 8-12 different classes, on 3-4 different levels, have to prepare lessons for each level (since programs change every 2/3 years), and have tests and exams every 2/3weeks in each. That's an average of 120 (4 classes a week, 30students/class) tests to correct every week. Please stop telling us about lazy shits working 18hours a week. Of course, as in every job, some are lazy. I see it in university mostly. Add to that the difficult classes, and tension, and refusal of authority, on people who are not even TAUGHT how to give lessons and have no experience in front of a live class. Lol, hi stress, how are you ?
Ok I'm just going to quickly agree with you that teaching isn't something easy. I know it isn't, I've read accounts about teachers having to deal with the most obnoxious students I've ever heard of read this if you have time, shit starts page 12. I also know that teaching is a rare talent. You can have someone very competent in a domain but he won't be able to pass on his competence for shit. I myself am pretty bad at explaining things to my siblings, for their school homework. That's the thing though. Teaching is kind of a hard job yet it seems that half of those teaching are brutally incompetent at it. I think the good teachers should be paid more to do more of their job. You describe how many different classes a teacher gets in a collège. Things should be streamlined so that the teacher only has 1 or 2 levels to prepare at a time. Some shit like that.
Basically it feels as if education should be made more cost efficient than it is now. Reduce cost and augment quality. I don't think the changes proposed by Sarkozy are going to do that completely, however it is a step in the right direction. I feel that Hollande is taking a step in the wrong direction.
I do respect good teachers. They exist. But as of now a good 50% of teachers aren't good teachers at all.
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Yup. But I believe actually teaching teachers how to teach (.........) is important to achieve that, and Sarkozy in fact removed the practical part of the teacher exam. Which doesn't help. At all.
About the numbers... well, a class of 30 is already a lot, but easier to deal with than a class of 35. More teachers also mean people to replace ill teachers, which is not the case today, since no one is available, as you showed with your absent teachers. My ex-gf had several teachers absent for 3 months in university courses, in a 6-month-long year. Which is bullshit. They should be better, more serious, AND a bit more, for me :p
also remember they don't really get to choose where they will be working. If they are lucky, maybe, but...
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In my opinion, the problems with French education almost earn another thread. There are problems on numerous level (lack of diversity in best schools, bad repartition of money and best teachers, the horrible level in reading and writing in college, and even in high school sometimes from my personnal experience (not even talking about basic maths, I still have nightmare of explaining fractions to pupils in 1re S or the fact that they needed a calc for anything harder than 1+2...). I think more teachers are needed by class, but I also think we need to be more cost efficient. We need to have less depressed teachers, probably less non-teachers in the minister of Education, we need to change programs somehow... We need an overhaul, and let's face it, we're not going to see one, whoever is elected.
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On May 03 2012 22:52 Incognoto wrote:
I do respect good teachers. They exist. But as of now a good 50% of teachers aren't good teachers at all.
Where does that number come from? You seem to have skipped your philosophy classes...
On May 03 2012 23:00 corumjhaelen wrote:
In my opinion, the problems with French education almost earn another thread.
True, the whole system is obsolete and has changed very little in a century.
But who will change it? It's a lot of work.
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On May 03 2012 22:43 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 21:26 chuky500 wrote:The debate was fun but it was more about the form than content. This video shows the point of view of Credit Agricole on Hollande's program. It's very instructive and hard to disagree with the analysis. You can read the report in English. Very cool video. I've always wondered myself if the UE really should stay, I guess I simply don't know the implications. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 21:41 Incognoto wrote:
The problem with Hollande, as I've said before, is that he spent as much time attacking Sarkozy as he did bringing something new to the table. Obviously, you're supposed to do that in a debate, but he seems to be playing on "Sarkozy you fucked up, gtfo" rather than "here are the solutions I'm proposing to these problems". Hollande was very aggressive. Too aggressive imo. Sarkozy's reign wasn't great but you have to admit he didn't fuck things up as badly as Hollande seems to be saying. France didn't get dragged down when the recession hit. Sarkozy handled Afghanistan pretty well. Sarkozy has had good relations with Merkel and Obama.
The one thing about the debate is that I feel Sarkozy's ideas make more sense. Even if Sarko didn't destroy Hollande, he defended his ideas well.
Sarkozy is right about the idea of reducing immigration, to better accommodate them. Too many people come to France without adding anything to our society. If immigrants are just left alone without any support it's not good for them and it's not good for us.
I agree about continuing to use nuclear energy. Our reactors have never had a problem and we're damn good at using them. ;/
I agree about education. We don't need more teachers for 5 year olds. "Teaching" to 5 year olds is easy as shit. Maybe it's because I just get along with kids who are half my age really well and others don't, but there's nothing hard at all about classes up until the collège (and even then). The material you're teaching is crap easy. It's retarded to want to add more teachers there. When I came from the USA to France, I got 17,5/20 on my first math test without studying. And I'm not even smart.
Where French education really needs a revamp is in lycées. They work 18 hours a week. Teachers, (with a few exceptions obviously, I've had good teachers), are mostly incompetent as well. They don't work a lot and they do their work poorly. I didn't have an English teacher for half a year in Terminale. Our philosophy teacher in Terminale was absent quite, quite often. One time she came to class and said that she was tired. We all obviously told her that we just shouldn't do class. She agreed and just left. As a student I was quite happy with these arrangements, but unfortunately that kind of bullshit is common in lycées, I've talked to other people from other lycées who said they had similar stories. Those lazy fucks work 18 hours a week, 8 months a year and they're still payed more than the minimum wage. Well something is wrong there.* Sarkozy probably lost every single vote from teachers when he said he was going to make them work more, but he's right lol. Yet Hollande wants to add 60k more lazy fucks? PUH-LEASE.
I already stated what I thought about Afghanistan.
There are obviously other issues I haven't mentioned here, Sarkozy is still a clown to me, but I just disagree with everything Hollande says. Maybe someone who is going to vote Hollande can tell me why they're doing so, for another reason other than "i don't like sarko". I need a good reason not to move to Germany if Hollande gets elected. q_q
*NB: Students work 35 hours a week not counting the homework they're supposed to do for every subject. I really fail to see how teachers need more than a handful of hours per week to prepare their lessons and grade papers, especially since they have one subject. It was something that infuriated me when I was a student and still does now. 1 ) If you were satisfied by their ideas, then I don't know what to say. A bunch of smoke and random numbers don't really count as "ideas" in my head but whatever. 2) In my experience, teachers were rarely absent. They worked 35 hours a week + a couple of hours correcting papers. I was pretty satisfied by most of them (my lycée was Lakanal if you want to know). 3) 5 years old do need more teachers, desperately. My little brother almost lost an eye because the class is overcrowded and the teacher can't be everywhere at once. What can happen when they all have scissors? Accidents, violence too. It may sound cute but they do suffer when a bully slaps them on the face all day because there's no adult to look. This has been a major topic of discontent at the local school, parents are very stressed and the kids are obviously unhappy. Now, I don't expect a kid in a prépa to know this kind of things, but it's not that hard to imagine. Kids are kids. All in all, your post is proof that this debate was empy and mostly relies what people personally experienced, more than any real knowledge they had on the matter. The danger is when people truly believe that their own experience can be extrapolated to 60 million people.
I promised myself to get off TL and start studying but I just can't resist.
Why is your experience on the matter better than mine?
The education I got from quite a lot of teachers at my lycée was mediocre. Why are you satisfied with your education whereas I'm not?
My siblings are 11 years old and went to a small local school. Their education there was perfectly fine, from what I heard from both them and my mother. Why is it that your little brother almost became a pirate in your school whereas my siblings had a good time?
All in all, your post simply proves that there's either a glitch in the matrix or one is completely obtuse to what the reality of the situation is, as well as what solutions should be implemented to solve the problems we have. The danger is that one of us is wrong, yet we can both vote. Funny how democracy works, isn't it? no flamez
Edit: I have never skived a single class in my entire life.
Edit 2:
On May 03 2012 23:00 corumjhaelen wrote:
In my opinion, the problems with French education almost earn another thread. There are problems on numerous level (lack of diversity in best schools, bad repartition of money and best teachers, the horrible level in reading and writing in college, and even in high school sometimes from my personnal experience (not even talking about basic maths, I still have nightmare of explaining fractions to pupils in 1re S or the fact that they needed a calc for anything harder than 1+2...). I think more teachers are needed by class, but I also think we need to be more cost efficient. We need to have less depressed teachers, probably less non-teachers in the minister of Education, we need to change programs somehow... We need an overhaul, and let's face it, we're not going to see one, whoever is elected.
I entirely agree with everything said here and I'm going to leave it at that.
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On May 03 2012 23:04 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 22:43 Kukaracha wrote:On May 03 2012 21:26 chuky500 wrote:The debate was fun but it was more about the form than content. This video shows the point of view of Credit Agricole on Hollande's program. It's very instructive and hard to disagree with the analysis. You can read the report in English. Very cool video. I've always wondered myself if the UE really should stay, I guess I simply don't know the implications. On May 03 2012 21:41 Incognoto wrote:
The problem with Hollande, as I've said before, is that he spent as much time attacking Sarkozy as he did bringing something new to the table. Obviously, you're supposed to do that in a debate, but he seems to be playing on "Sarkozy you fucked up, gtfo" rather than "here are the solutions I'm proposing to these problems". Hollande was very aggressive. Too aggressive imo. Sarkozy's reign wasn't great but you have to admit he didn't fuck things up as badly as Hollande seems to be saying. France didn't get dragged down when the recession hit. Sarkozy handled Afghanistan pretty well. Sarkozy has had good relations with Merkel and Obama.
The one thing about the debate is that I feel Sarkozy's ideas make more sense. Even if Sarko didn't destroy Hollande, he defended his ideas well.
Sarkozy is right about the idea of reducing immigration, to better accommodate them. Too many people come to France without adding anything to our society. If immigrants are just left alone without any support it's not good for them and it's not good for us.
I agree about continuing to use nuclear energy. Our reactors have never had a problem and we're damn good at using them. ;/
I agree about education. We don't need more teachers for 5 year olds. "Teaching" to 5 year olds is easy as shit. Maybe it's because I just get along with kids who are half my age really well and others don't, but there's nothing hard at all about classes up until the collège (and even then). The material you're teaching is crap easy. It's retarded to want to add more teachers there. When I came from the USA to France, I got 17,5/20 on my first math test without studying. And I'm not even smart.
Where French education really needs a revamp is in lycées. They work 18 hours a week. Teachers, (with a few exceptions obviously, I've had good teachers), are mostly incompetent as well. They don't work a lot and they do their work poorly. I didn't have an English teacher for half a year in Terminale. Our philosophy teacher in Terminale was absent quite, quite often. One time she came to class and said that she was tired. We all obviously told her that we just shouldn't do class. She agreed and just left. As a student I was quite happy with these arrangements, but unfortunately that kind of bullshit is common in lycées, I've talked to other people from other lycées who said they had similar stories. Those lazy fucks work 18 hours a week, 8 months a year and they're still payed more than the minimum wage. Well something is wrong there.* Sarkozy probably lost every single vote from teachers when he said he was going to make them work more, but he's right lol. Yet Hollande wants to add 60k more lazy fucks? PUH-LEASE.
I already stated what I thought about Afghanistan.
There are obviously other issues I haven't mentioned here, Sarkozy is still a clown to me, but I just disagree with everything Hollande says. Maybe someone who is going to vote Hollande can tell me why they're doing so, for another reason other than "i don't like sarko". I need a good reason not to move to Germany if Hollande gets elected. q_q
*NB: Students work 35 hours a week not counting the homework they're supposed to do for every subject. I really fail to see how teachers need more than a handful of hours per week to prepare their lessons and grade papers, especially since they have one subject. It was something that infuriated me when I was a student and still does now. 1 ) If you were satisfied by their ideas, then I don't know what to say. A bunch of smoke and random numbers don't really count as "ideas" in my head but whatever. 2) In my experience, teachers were rarely absent. They worked 35 hours a week + a couple of hours correcting papers. I was pretty satisfied by most of them (my lycée was Lakanal if you want to know). 3) 5 years old do need more teachers, desperately. My little brother almost lost an eye because the class is overcrowded and the teacher can't be everywhere at once. What can happen when they all have scissors? Accidents, violence too. It may sound cute but they do suffer when a bully slaps them on the face all day because there's no adult to look. This has been a major topic of discontent at the local school, parents are very stressed and the kids are obviously unhappy. Now, I don't expect a kid in a prépa to know this kind of things, but it's not that hard to imagine. Kids are kids. All in all, your post is proof that this debate was empy and mostly relies what people personally experienced, more than any real knowledge they had on the matter. The danger is when people truly believe that their own experience can be extrapolated to 60 million people. I promised myself to get off TL and start studying but I just can't resist. Why is your experience on the matter better than mine? The education I got from quite a lot of teachers at my lycée was mediocre. Why are you satisfied with your education whereas I'm not? My siblings are 11 years old and went to a small local school. Their education there was perfectly fine, from what I heard from both them and my mother. Why is it that your little brother almost became a pirate in your school whereas my siblings had a good time? All in all, your post simply proves that there's either a glitch in the matrix or one is completely obtuse to what the reality of the situation is, as well as what solutions should be implemented to solve the problems we have. The danger is that one of us is wrong, yet we can both vote. Funny how democracy works, isn't it? no flamez
You don't understand, what I'm saying is that none of us really know what's up because we take most of our information from our oh so limited personal experience.
I'm right and you're wrong, and yet you will vote sure of knowing the truth, because, well, your aunt told you so.
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On May 03 2012 23:07 Kukaracha wrote:
You don't understand, what I'm saying is that none of us really know what's up because we take most of our information from our oh so limited personal experience.
That was my point, do excuse me if I worded myself poorly.
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The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand.
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On May 03 2012 22:50 Nouar wrote:
Doesn't matter, the looks are what's important in a debate, and he got cornered on that topic, it looked like he was in a bad spot, and not all 20million will be checking afterwards.
So you're acknowledging that Sarkozy had to resort to lies and manipulation to make Hollande look cornered to have a single chance at winning this second round ? While ironically calling Hollande a liar every 20 minutes.
You sounds like because people don't check the facts it makes it perfectly acceptable.
I remember at the beginning, Sarkozy introduced himself as has someone who wanted to be honest and authentic during the debate, but I knew such bullshit would happen.
Three wise men - Les Inconnus - once said "Ils ne faut pas prendre les gens pour des cons, mais il ne faut pas oublier qu'ils le sont" (translation : "Don't call people stupid, but keep in mind they indeed are"). At least Sarkozy got that right. I guess he had nothing to lose given his position.
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On May 03 2012 23:11 Heweree wrote:
The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand.
You don't have kids, right?
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On May 03 2012 23:11 Heweree wrote:
The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand.
I agree with this, I can't be thankful enough to my parents for getting me tons of books and spending a lot of time with me when I was a kid rather than letting me debilitate myself in front of Hélène et les garçons.
edit : I don't mean you have zero chance if your parents don't take care of you. See that guy KingCharlie in the blogs section, he seems to be a smart guy although his dad was a totally insane alcoholic.
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On May 03 2012 23:12 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 23:11 Heweree wrote:
The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand. You don't have kids, right?
Well, I have a little brother who is 14y younger than me, and a little sister who is 12y younger than me. We were raised by my mother alone, and she worked a lot. So I sort of know what it is to take care of kids.
But I love your one liner instead of actually bringing arguments to the discussion.
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On May 03 2012 23:23 Heweree wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 23:12 Kukaracha wrote:On May 03 2012 23:11 Heweree wrote:
The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand. You don't have kids, right? Well, I have a little brother who is 14y younger than me, and a little sister who is 12y younger than me. We were raised by my mother alone, and she worked a lot. So I sort of know what it is to take care of kids. But I love your one liner instead of actually bringing arguments to the discussion.
Right, so you don't have kids.
I thought that the argument was pretty evident : raising kids is one of the most difficult things to do in life, and does not only depend on the parents. It's easy to criticize mothers and fathers in such a way.
I also have little brothers, and this simply doesn't compare to what an education is.
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On May 03 2012 23:48 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 23:23 Heweree wrote:On May 03 2012 23:12 Kukaracha wrote:On May 03 2012 23:11 Heweree wrote:
The main issue about education is parents. Seriously, if every parent took the time to make their children intellectually curious we would be n1 in the world.
I mean, just by making him read regularly when he is a kid (6 to 9 for instance), you can be pretty sure that he will have an excellent grammar.
Kids are curious and eager to learn, parents break that by putting them in front of the TV so the kids don't bother them (tv is ok, but when I see my niece (8) coming back from school at 4:30pm and doing nothing apart eating than watching TV until she goes to bed at 10pm...it's a complete waste.
90% of the parents are either negligent or pressure like crazy because they want their kid to not lose "social rank", and tell them to have good marks to have good marks. Totally forgetting that the main idea is to learn.
Teachers have their responsibility, but when you see the type of parents who blame them the most you understand. You don't have kids, right? Well, I have a little brother who is 14y younger than me, and a little sister who is 12y younger than me. We were raised by my mother alone, and she worked a lot. So I sort of know what it is to take care of kids. But I love your one liner instead of actually bringing arguments to the discussion. Right, so you don't have kids. I thought that the argument was pretty evident : raising kids is one of the most difficult things to do in life, and does not only depend on the parents. It's easy to criticize mothers and fathers in such a way. I also have little brothers, and this simply doesn't compare to what an education is.
Never said it was easy. But a lot of parents don't take the time to introduce them to books, give them the taste for knowledge etc.
And I believe it's hard to make your kid happy, or even insure that he/she blossoms itself because they are so many things out of your control, but it's not that hard to make them intellectually curious.
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It is, because people usually aren't intellectuals. How will they give their children the taste of books, when they don't have it themselves?
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So, Bayrou just said he wouldn't call to vote for either, but that he would himself vote for Hollande. The Dailymotion stream was crashing constantly, so I don't know exactly what he said, just that he couldn't vote for Sarkozy after the way the last weeks turned out, betraying their way of thinking and ideas (probably including the run to the far right), but that he would stay an opponent to Hollande, but not blindly, smartly, to avoid the errors announced in his program.
Quite a lot of his associates announced they would vote for Hollande, like Douste-Blazy and a few others. Some will most likely express their support to Sarkozy, too.
btw, here is part 2 of the explanations of truths or lies in yesterday's debate. (in french) http://decodeurs.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/05/03/erreurs-contreverites-et-controverses-du-debat-suite/#xtor=RSS-3208
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I'm surprised by Bayrou. I thouught he wouldn't take this risk.
Maybe after all he doesn't only care about his own career. Or maybe he does but I don't see his interest to do that: he cuts the bridges with a big big part of his political family.
Great move anyway. 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sASS9.jpg)
