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On May 04 2012 04:20 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. One day you will have to understand how Sarkozy's way of doing things is alienating him everybody and *why*... the things he's done, the things he's said, taking people for idiots, etc... we had two pretty big examples even yesterday. as for your last answer, economy is but a part of a whole, and the rest is 0% compatible with Bayrou's ideals. He DID say he would stay in the opposition to counter the bad parts of Hollande's economic program.
And one day you'll take a step back and think about everything you've been force-fed by the left, and aided by the medias.
The closer we are to the end, the less these media scum are even trying to hide it. It's actually rather disgusting.
I guess it's retribution for Sarkozy's authoritative ways, but this is still anti-democracy at its finest.
It's sad how everyone is selling out their dignity just to get back at one man.
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He wanted la règle d'or
I, too, spout marketed bullshit and dont know about Maastricht and its non-respected limit to budget imbalance.
If that one wasnt respected, what makes you believe another one would be?
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On May 04 2012 04:27 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yes, the good leader of France's troops to Sedan, amrite? Also, of course, the media is against Sarkozy, especially since Lagardère and Dassault were his friends, I mean, oh, wait.. The fact that he was able to threaten members of the crew on television sets also means that all channels clearly were against him. ...
Hollande has a lot of wealthy friends too. But you seriously think Dassault and Lagardère give a fuck? Whether it's Hollande or Sarkozy won't change anything for them. There is a consensus that the medias are more left favored, journalists themselves are more left favored.
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On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best.
Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one.
As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss.
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On May 04 2012 04:27 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yes, the good leader of France's troops to Sedan, amrite? Also, of course, the media is against Sarkozy, especially since Lagardère and Dassault were his friends, I mean, oh, wait.. The fact that he was able to threaten members of the crew on television sets also means that all channels clearly were against him. ...
I'm not saying that Napoleon III was a good leader, historians are saying it. Go argue with them if you want.
Have you been listening to the media lately ?
-Mediapart conviently releasing a document 7 days from the election day, with no way anyone can prove it to be true or false. is this democratic ?
-Mariane comparing Sarkozy to Petain and Laval. Is this democratic ?
-France 2 deliberately keeping false results (sarkozy behind by more then 3%) the night of the first round.
-And today's headlines: "Hollande more convincing then Sarkozy" when poles just showed he was more likeable wheras Sarkozy was considered more presidentiable and better on economic and political subjects.
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On May 04 2012 04:30 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:20 Nouar wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. One day you will have to understand how Sarkozy's way of doing things is alienating him everybody and *why*... the things he's done, the things he's said, taking people for idiots, etc... we had two pretty big examples even yesterday. as for your last answer, economy is but a part of a whole, and the rest is 0% compatible with Bayrou's ideals. He DID say he would stay in the opposition to counter the bad parts of Hollande's economic program. And one day you'll take a step back and think about everything you've been force-fed by the left, and aided by the medias. The closer we are to the end, the less these media scum are even trying to hide it. It's actually rather disgusting. I guess it's retribution for Sarkozy's authoritative ways, but this is still anti-democracy at its finest. It's sad how everyone is selling out their dignity just to get back at one man.
After each post I read from you, I pray to my god never to meet your IRL.
Just out of curiosity where are you studying at ?
EDIT : Also Mediapart certainly had an agenda. Each politician should be prepared for that. After all, DSK was supposed to be the favorite before his fall ... But nobody on the left side cried because it was unfair.
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On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had.
Yeah, right. Go read some history book. Napoleon III era was the most ploutocratic, kleptocratic, corrupt period of French history. I mean, the duke of Morny all that? It was the harshest time for the workers, the army was repressing any contest in the blood.
I mean seriously, what the fuck.
Now Sarkozy, with the Roms, the black men not entered in history, the systematic defense o policemen when they fucked up, the national identity, the attack on muslims, the... oh fuck it. You are so biaised, I'm just losing my time.
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On May 04 2012 04:34 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best. Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one. As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss.
I lack a proper moral ? Do you believe the things that you are writing or is this just a way of expressing yourself and I shouldn't be offended ?
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On May 04 2012 04:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yeah, right. Go read some history book. Napoleon III was the most ploutocratic, corrupt period of French history. It was the harshest time for the workers, the army was repressing any contest in the blood. I mean seriously, what the fuck. Now Sarkozy, with the Roms, the black men not entered in history, the systematic defense o policemen when they fucked up, the national identity, the attack on muslims, the... oh fuck it. You are so biaised, I'm just losing my time.
"La vive hostilité de Victor Hugo à Napoléon III – qu'il surnommait « Napoléon le Petit » – exprimée dans sa littérature et ses correspondancesNote 1, les multiples pamphlets et ouvrages critiques de divers auteurs (Henri Rochefort, Maurice Joly, etc.) et les articles d'une partie de la presse politique contemporaine (Le Siècle, L'Opinion nationaleNote 2) participent à l'élaboration de ce que de nombreux historiensNote 3 qualifient de « légende noire » autour de Napoléon III et du Second Empire1,Note 4.
Si, avec le temps, l'œuvre économique et sociale du Second Empire est assez rapidement mise en valeur par l'historiographie officielle dès le début du xxe siècle, la révision du jugement historique porté sur Napoléon III lui-même est plus lente à évoluer. Après la Seconde Guerre mondiale, les travaux des historiens, notamment ceux effectués par Adrien Dansette et Louis Girard2, allant dans le sens d'une réhabilitation de Napoléon IIINote 5,3, marquent une nette rupture historiographique dans la perception de celui qui est le dernier monarque françaisNote 6."
I just googled and took this from the wiki. Go read the sources taken from the footnotes if you don't believe it.
Also, citing 10 different topics and adding "what the fuck" doesn't help you make a point. If you wish to discuss any of these topics, I'll be glad to do so. If you wish to just remain in the "flou" and throw baseless accusations, then we can leave it at that.
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On May 04 2012 04:41 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yeah, right. Go read some history book. Napoleon III was the most ploutocratic, corrupt period of French history. It was the harshest time for the workers, the army was repressing any contest in the blood. I mean seriously, what the fuck. Now Sarkozy, with the Roms, the black men not entered in history, the systematic defense o policemen when they fucked up, the national identity, the attack on muslims, the... oh fuck it. You are so biaised, I'm just losing my time. "La vive hostilité de Victor Hugo à Napoléon III – qu'il surnommait « Napoléon le Petit » – exprimée dans sa littérature et ses correspondancesNote 1, les multiples pamphlets et ouvrages critiques de divers auteurs (Henri Rochefort, Maurice Joly, etc.) et les articles d'une partie de la presse politique contemporaine (Le Siècle, L'Opinion nationaleNote 2) participent à l'élaboration de ce que de nombreux historiensNote 3 qualifient de « légende noire » autour de Napoléon III et du Second Empire1,Note 4. Si, avec le temps, l'œuvre économique et sociale du Second Empire est assez rapidement mise en valeur par l'historiographie officielle dès le début du xxe siècle, la révision du jugement historique porté sur Napoléon III lui-même est plus lente à évoluer. Après la Seconde Guerre mondiale, les travaux des historiens, notamment ceux effectués par Adrien Dansette et Louis Girard2, allant dans le sens d'une réhabilitation de Napoléon IIINote 5,3, marquent une nette rupture historiographique dans la perception de celui qui est le dernier monarque françaisNote 6." I just googled and took this from the wiki. Go read the sources taken from the footnotes if you don't believe it.
Yeah and where does that even come from?
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On May 04 2012 04:39 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:34 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best. Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one. As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss. I lack a proper moral ? Do you believe the things that you are writing or is this just a way of expressing yourself and I shouldn't be offended ?
I do believe the things I wrote. Of course by your standards you do have a morality (otherwise you would be asocial), but by my own you are no more than a scum. It's a question of opinion, you can choose to be offended if you wish, though at this point, nothing will ever change my vision of yourself.
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On May 04 2012 04:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:41 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yeah, right. Go read some history book. Napoleon III was the most ploutocratic, corrupt period of French history. It was the harshest time for the workers, the army was repressing any contest in the blood. I mean seriously, what the fuck. Now Sarkozy, with the Roms, the black men not entered in history, the systematic defense o policemen when they fucked up, the national identity, the attack on muslims, the... oh fuck it. You are so biaised, I'm just losing my time. "La vive hostilité de Victor Hugo à Napoléon III – qu'il surnommait « Napoléon le Petit » – exprimée dans sa littérature et ses correspondancesNote 1, les multiples pamphlets et ouvrages critiques de divers auteurs (Henri Rochefort, Maurice Joly, etc.) et les articles d'une partie de la presse politique contemporaine (Le Siècle, L'Opinion nationaleNote 2) participent à l'élaboration de ce que de nombreux historiensNote 3 qualifient de « légende noire » autour de Napoléon III et du Second Empire1,Note 4. Si, avec le temps, l'œuvre économique et sociale du Second Empire est assez rapidement mise en valeur par l'historiographie officielle dès le début du xxe siècle, la révision du jugement historique porté sur Napoléon III lui-même est plus lente à évoluer. Après la Seconde Guerre mondiale, les travaux des historiens, notamment ceux effectués par Adrien Dansette et Louis Girard2, allant dans le sens d'une réhabilitation de Napoléon IIINote 5,3, marquent une nette rupture historiographique dans la perception de celui qui est le dernier monarque françaisNote 6." I just googled and took this from the wiki. Go read the sources taken from the footnotes if you don't believe it. Yeah and where does that even come from?
If I can still read french, it comes from the studies of numerous historians, which you can find in the wiki page dedicated to Napoleon III. Such historians are (as said in the text I quoted) Adrien Dansette and Louis Girar. More can be found in the footnotes, as previously said.
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On May 02 2012 21:31 Faya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 21:23 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 21:11 Faya wrote:
I'm so sick of this country where it used to be a land of debate, since sarko is prime minister, debates became schoolyard fight, with the same intellectual level as kids. I'm so sick of the right wing in France, left isn't 'love' and right isn't 'hate', it is just : left= concerned for most of the population, right=concerned for myself (and maybe my family).
This makes any debates sterile as fuck, results of the election will just show if the people of France is just shitty or if they show a little faith in humanity, somehow.
And finally, I am sick of my people of France, hating for 5 years the way of managing the country by Sarkozy by 75%, realising every now and then how the president is implicated in many dark affairs, increasing the debt of France by 2/3 to gifts to the richest etc,
AND NOW WHAT ? The second turn shows 53%/47% in the latest poll ? what made you change your point of view ? Or maybe one fourth of the french people is just like rats, running away when everything goes wrong and showing up from nowhere when horizons look better. You guys are the reason why americans and the rest of the world are making fun of us, as fleeing chickens, and if you're making sarkozy win again, after what he has done, you're just making them right.
I keep hope, sarkozy isn't on his way to win, and i'm already happy for the next 5 years, knowing that right-wing supporters will hide and have to lie, as they do all the time, to protect themselves and their money... You do realize that what makes debating hard is your condescending tone regarding anyone who doesn't think like you rather then "because of sarkozy". It's funny how everything wrong in the world right now is "because of Sarkozy" Do you have anything in your post you wish me to respond to ? Or are you just "throwing it out there" ? You see the point right here? aren't you condescending saying we just use the "anti-sarkozysm". What would you want me to say instead ? It is because of the crisis? WRONG (I told you, 2/3 of created debt in the last 5 years isn't due to the crisis but the way of running the public money, rapport cour des compte). So yes, everything a little bit aware of what's going on is saying "because of Sarkozy" because it is, and unfortunately it is not funny. Tonight, he will once again "enfumer" everybody, be more racist, gain pointsn and eventually win the elections, officially running a country of dumbass people, half-stupid, half-racist and half-selfish.
that's 3 halves, you're probably more of the first one though.
every single post you've made in this topic made you look like an idiot, you should consider not voting, since you don't seem to know a ton about politics (sarkozy prime minister, that's the first line of your first post, good job).
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On May 04 2012 04:45 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:39 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:34 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best. Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one. As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss. I lack a proper moral ? Do you believe the things that you are writing or is this just a way of expressing yourself and I shouldn't be offended ? I do believe the things I wrote. Of course by your standards you do have a morality (otherwise you would be asocial), but by my own you are no more than a scum. It's a question of opinion, you can choose to be offended if you wish, though at this point, nothing will ever change my vision of yourself.
Well, you're quite the gentleman aren't you ? 
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If you read the non-economic part of Bay'rou's program, you might see why he prefers Holland to Sarkozy. But of course, every politic in France only ever think of his carrier, and journalists are all leftist who hate Sarkozy (or they all hate Mélenchon or "the little candidates" depending on the day of the week).
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On May 04 2012 04:48 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:45 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:39 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:34 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best. Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one. As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss. I lack a proper moral ? Do you believe the things that you are writing or is this just a way of expressing yourself and I shouldn't be offended ? I do believe the things I wrote. Of course by your standards you do have a morality (otherwise you would be asocial), but by my own you are no more than a scum. It's a question of opinion, you can choose to be offended if you wish, though at this point, nothing will ever change my vision of yourself. Well, you're quite the gentleman aren't you ?
No, I'm not. I don't need to, nor do I want to. It's not your ideas that worries me (you would need to make sense for that), it's your persona. Lately I congratulated someone who has similar ideas (even more liberal) than you.
Congratulations SaintBadger for being polite, clear and coherent. I respect what you are doing here. It's absolutely not the kind of world I would like to live in but it's certainly a vision that is clear from the beginning. I must confess you scare me. It's like reading the mind of someone you consider evil. It shows me I still have work to do on myself to improve my understanding of your opinion and find a way to make it work with mines - which I deeply believe are better . Source
See, I respect this guy because he had courage, intelligence and coherence. You are nothing more than a partisan who keeps spouting out the ideas you think are your own without doing you own critics.
I don't respect you, and I think you deserve no respect for your actions in this thread. Now that I've made myself very clear, I shall leave and return under better auspices. For your own sake, I suggest you refrain from acting like a raped virgin next sunday.
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On May 04 2012 04:36 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:27 Kukaracha wrote:On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yes, the good leader of France's troops to Sedan, amrite? Also, of course, the media is against Sarkozy, especially since Lagardère and Dassault were his friends, I mean, oh, wait.. The fact that he was able to threaten members of the crew on television sets also means that all channels clearly were against him. ... I'm not saying that Napoleon III was a good leader, historians are saying it. Go argue with them if you want. Have you been listening to the media lately ? -Mediapart conviently releasing a document 7 days from the election day, with no way anyone can prove it to be true or false. is this democratic ? -Mariane comparing Sarkozy to Petain and Laval. Is this democratic ? -France 2 deliberately keeping false results (sarkozy behind by more then 3%) the night of the first round. -And today's headlines: "Hollande more convincing then Sarkozy" when poles just showed he was more likeable wheras Sarkozy was considered more presidentiable and better on economic and political subjects.
Oh geiko  You can do better than that. Is that all that is left ? The media conspiracy ?
Seriously... Mediapart relased a document 7 days before election day. So what ? They have been releasing something like 2 documents per month for over a year now (in the different affairs). A new document released a week before the election day is just a matter of probability at this point. But don't worry, Hollande will remove that presidential immunity, so that every time some questions arise, the president will have the opportunity to answer (which our dear president sadly had not).
Marianne compared Sarkozy to Pétain and Laval ? Well, that's Marianne, do you want to blame Hollande for that or what ? And maybe, Sarkozy shouldn't say "travail, famille, patrie" (sorry, he says "nation") every day.
France 2 underestimated Sarkozy's result ? We have some serious *%$* here. Moreover they overestimated Marine Le Pen. France 2 is being manipulated by the FN. What is the police doing ? Watching TF1 ?
As for today's headline, I'm sorry but I have no other advise than "deal with it". That's what happened. Except in the eyes of someone who truely believes in Sarkozy. Maybe you should only read the Figaro and Alantico, plus Micheal Vendetta's twitter. The press can write wathever it wants in this country. Just create your own blog, and inform the country about how fantastic Sarkozy was last night, only to be compared to how good he has been for 5 years.
+ Show Spoiler +I feel your pain bro, just imagine how sad I was 5 years ago. I hope that it will be easier for you to bear these upcomming 5 years than it has been for me to bear this "president".
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On May 04 2012 05:00 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:48 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:45 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:39 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:34 Otolia wrote:On May 04 2012 04:14 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 03:49 Geiko wrote:
Disappointing by Bayrou... Selling out France's future for personal political gain. Bayrou is closer to Hollande than Sarkozy on every level. He is a humanist, Sarkozy is flirting hardcore with far right He is a liberal with a very strong sense of social justice, Sarkozy is a right wing liberal favoring the wealthy He is an old fashion respectful and very calm person with a strong sense of dignity, Sarkozy acts like an uneducated kid etc etc etc I'm surprised though because the bet seems quite bold. i was sure he would cut his own hand rather than supportaing Sarkozy, but I would have thought he wouldn't have the balls to vote for the left. "Les rats quittent le navire". Choosing the winning side and hoping to pick up the pieces behind Sarkozy. Politique politicienne at its best. Don't start talking about morality when you are clearly shown you lack a proper one. As stated by Kukaracha, Hollande is somewhat of a socio-democrat (somewhat nordic style) and in the current situation, he should be considered center-link. Bayrou is clearly following his political alignment here even though he may have something big to gain from Sarkosy's loss. I lack a proper moral ? Do you believe the things that you are writing or is this just a way of expressing yourself and I shouldn't be offended ? I do believe the things I wrote. Of course by your standards you do have a morality (otherwise you would be asocial), but by my own you are no more than a scum. It's a question of opinion, you can choose to be offended if you wish, though at this point, nothing will ever change my vision of yourself. Well, you're quite the gentleman aren't you ? No, I'm not. I don't need to, nor do I want to. It's not your ideas that worries me (you would need to make sense for that), it's your persona. Lately I congratulated someone who has similar ideas (even more liberal) than you. Show nested quote +Congratulations SaintBadger for being polite, clear and coherent. I respect what you are doing here. It's absolutely not the kind of world I would like to live in but it's certainly a vision that is clear from the beginning. I must confess you scare me. It's like reading the mind of someone you consider evil. It shows me I still have work to do on myself to improve my understanding of your opinion and find a way to make it work with mines - which I deeply believe are better . SourceI don't respect you
Then you have nothing to do on these forums u_u, and if you stop respecting someone after a few posts (with no hatred as much as I've seen) then you can't be an "humanist" like you said.
Going for personal attacks is never the solution.
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On May 04 2012 04:36 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:27 Kukaracha wrote:On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had. Yes, the good leader of France's troops to Sedan, amrite? Also, of course, the media is against Sarkozy, especially since Lagardère and Dassault were his friends, I mean, oh, wait.. The fact that he was able to threaten members of the crew on television sets also means that all channels clearly were against him. ... I'm not saying that Napoleon III was a good leader, historians are saying it. Go argue with them if you want. Have you been listening to the media lately ? -Mediapart conviently releasing a document 7 days from the election day, with no way anyone can prove it to be true or false. is this democratic ? -Mariane comparing Sarkozy to Petain and Laval. Is this democratic ? -France 2 deliberately keeping false results (sarkozy behind by more then 3%) the night of the first round. -And today's headlines: "Hollande more convincing then Sarkozy" when poles just showed he was more likeable wheras Sarkozy was considered more presidentiable and better on economic and political subjects.
Geiko,
-About Napoleon III: yes he was a crappy leader. Internally, he held a repressive regime. On the international scene, he started out well with the Crimean War (getting France out of diplomatic isolation and gaining new allies in Italy). However he badly messed up afterwards: lost all his allies in Italy because he supported the Vatican and sent an army; failed his invasion in Mexico; got completely outsmarted by Bismark in The French-Prussian War with all the consequences... I wouldn't say he was teriible, but he certainly didn't live up to his familyname.
- The so called 'false results' of the first night: I live in Belgium and was listening to the results from 6 o clock onward. The first estimates weren't precise and the numbers fluctuated heavily. The most significant wasn't Sarkozy result (which the first results gave 25-27 %, he finished slightly above 27), it was Marine Lepen results: everyone was claiming a great breakthrough - 20,7 % at a certain moment, then it slowly went down for Marine Lepen- a small 20, 19,5 , 18,1 and ultimately 17,9. Since in the cities you could vote till 8 o clock (vs 6 o clock elsewhere) it seems to me that the big city results got later in and the score was thus readjusted (overestimates of Lepen notably). What I am sure of is that the results from french in other countries (notably Belgium where I live and voted and where 200 000 french live), got only added mondaymorning, further lowering Lepen scores (she got less votes then Eva Jolie here...).
-"Media is biased about the debate." <- I think you are a bit paranaio sir, no offense meant. Le Monde reports a poll after the debate : http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presidentielle-2012/article/2012/05/03/hollande-juge-plus-convaincant-que-sarkozy-selon-un-sondage_1695533_1471069.html
Hollande more convincing, but Sarkozy more credible. Full results of the poll are in the link (Hollande did better one duction, but Sarko did better on international politics etc. all the number are given).
Le figaro (which is right wing biased): http://elections.lefigaro.fr/flash-presidentielle/2012/05/03/97006-20120503FILWWW00623-debat-hollande-fait-meilleure-impression.php
Reports similar news. Hollande more sincere and Sarko more competent.
All reports seemed fairly neutral to be honest (at least in written press, I don't watch TV).
It just seemed after the debate that Hollande did a bit better then Sarkozy and is still leading in the polls (5-6 points - but about 19% hadn't decided whom to vote for <- this can change alot imo).
- "-Mariane comparing Sarkozy to Petain and Laval. Is this democratic ?" Lol they compared Hollande to Stalin too. It is idiotic.
- About Bayrou voting for Hollande: It seems pretty obvious to me he would do that. While he disagrees with Hollande on state budget, Bayrou is a humanist and Sarko is swinging far right (il drague les électeurs de Lepen). Bayrou agrees on a couple of important things with Hollande - moralising politics for example. Even people within Sarkozy party have critized sarko's hardline, while the UMP is more traditional and humanist right (Raffarin to name one).
There is a calculus behind this move too obviously.
- On a personal level I think Sarkozy didn't do as bad last five years as Hollande claims, especially on an international (European) level - which I get to see quite a bit here in Brussels. Some plans of Hollande seem dubious (I don't understand my own people doesn't want to increase the age of retirement - in Belgium it is like 65-67? and they are going to increase it).
Overall what makes me vote Hollande is:
Sarkozy tax breaks for the rich (we got a historically low tax rate for rich people...) whom I find unfair and dumb in these times.
Hollande wants to reform the V republic: I honestly find that the president has too much power and wouldn't mind a dose of proportionnel representatives at the legislative elections.
And Hollande is right when he says Sarkozy divided the french.
Have a good night.
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On May 04 2012 04:23 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 04 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:
His own ideals also go against Sarkozy's far-right turn. Bayrou is still being true to himself. As a catholic and a republican, he can't codone the UMP's last declarations. It's fun that the strategy of Patrick Buisson, counsellor of Sarkozy, ex-Maurassian far right winger, namely, to do the same than Le Pen to get his/her votes was the reason of his success in 2007 and the reason of his utter failure in 2012. It will hurt him in history books. Sarkozy will stay as the president who blew up the bareer that were separated the right from the fascists since 1945. That's a heavy responsibility. La défaite, et le déshoneur, as someone said. Don't kid yourself Biff. If we were to listen to the medias, Sarkozy has been taking a far-right turn since 2002. Wonder how he hasn't reached the far left right now. The past 5 years have been a succession of lies about Sarkozy's action as president, making him out to be the worse president of the 5th republic when he in fact has a bilan that is far from being bad. History knows to be objective, Napoleon III was remembered as a awful leader for France due to Hugo's hatred for him. 100 years later he is now remember as one of the good leaders our country has had.
Why are you SO SURE these are all lies ? As you said, he will be judged by history, but I'm pretty sure you'll be sad about the result...
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EPT
