Hollande program is basically a moderate centre right program in terms of economics.
Only in france could a socialist be described as 'center right'. Anyway it really doesn't matter what he says during the election campaign, since we all know politicians do nothing but lie and will say anything to obtain power.
If you take socialism in its historical meaning (achieving a communist utopy through reforms), the french socialist party has ceased to have socialist economical/political views for half a century. Even Melenchon is not socialist in that meaning.
'center right' is subjective.
Since the 80s all mainstream parties advocate their flavour of free market and liberalism, which is branded as "rightwing economical theory" from an historical point of view. The french socialist party is the main leftwing party on the current political scene, but with classical communists on one side and liberal on the other, it can claim center right.
On April 20 2012 00:04 RJGooner wrote: How does someone like Melenchon get the support that he does? 100% tax on all income over 360,000 euros seems absolutely nutty to me, and yet I've heard he's getting somewhere around 10% in the latest polls.
Maybe people see that it's just rhetoric and he's not serious?
Melenchon is the only one that really care about poor people and workers. But i admit that he might be too hardcore
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
I don't support Melenchon, but what shocks me in this video is not the mason thing (I seriously don't care about masons) or that he is pretending this or that; I know he is probably a hypocrite in a certain measure. The Pujadas thing is unbelievable though: "Are you ashamed of what you did", when they have broken a couple of their boss' windows while hundred of worker's life is being broken. What a c...
Well that has to be expected from a journalist who is living in a completly different world than the last remaining factory workers lol. However the fact that the so called people's candidate thinks so lowly of his own militants is mind-boggling and hilarious !
On April 20 2012 00:04 RJGooner wrote: How does someone like Melenchon get the support that he does? 100% tax on all income over 360,000 euros seems absolutely nutty to me, and yet I've heard he's getting somewhere around 10% in the latest polls.
Maybe people see that it's just rhetoric and he's not serious?
Melenchon is the only one that really care about poor people and workers. But i admit that he might be too hardcore
He tries to look like a reincarnation of Saint-Just but he is not "hardcore". Being hardcore means that the blood will be shed, you know like during the real revolutions lol. It is all fake.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
I don't see why the fact he is a mason is in itself a problem. Masonerie is great when it's not used as an influence network (and it is not necessarly).
Now masonery and Le Siècle are completely different things. Why the fact he is a mason means he has to know about le diner du siècle?
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
I don't see why the fact he is a mason is in itself a problem. Masonerie is great when it's not used as an influence network (and it is not necessarly).
Now masonery and Le Siècle are completely different things. Why the fact he is a mason means he has to know about le diner du siècle?
I'm not saying that masonery is bad (or good lol), i'm just laughing at people who think that he is "hardcore" and different of the other politicians. They are all of the same breed and they live together.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
I don't see why the fact he is a mason is in itself a problem. Masonerie is great when it's not used as an influence network (and it is not necessarly).
Now masonery and Le Siècle are completely different things. Why the fact he is a mason means he has to know about le diner du siècle?
I'm not saying that masonery is bad (or good lol), i'm just laughing at people who think that he is "hardcore" and different of the other politicians. They are all of the same breed and they live together.
What's the link between the fact he pretended not to know Le Siècle (which is probably a lie) and masonery. I still don't get it. Stop linking me to videos I don't have fifteen minutes to watch stuff made by random youtube users with boring sequences of Arlette Chabot everytime.
As for Melenchon as we see it being in large part a self made and well designed product probably very far from what he really is, that's obvious. See his friendship with Dassault and listen to his meeting, and you get it.
You know Biff, it's really not cool to call everyone else's political views shit without giving at least feasible arguments yourself. All you're doing is flaming all political parties that aren't left wing. It's incredibly annoying that I've had to ask more than once for you to explain why Hollande would be good for the country, all you're doing is calling everyone rude names without explaining yourself, and then you use the old dodging technique of "I can't be arsed to explain myself with fucking dumbasses such as yourself because it will lead no-where".
I'm still curious as to where you live you know. Sometimes people have strong opinions on matters they aren't familiar with. Whether or not that's your case is something I'd like to know because as of now I can't properly pinpoint you or your views.
I'll ask again, politely: Why is Hollande good for France? What is he going to actually do that will improve things?
And I do actually agree with this:
Tatcher and Reagan introduced massive financial deregulations which took effect in the whole world, and which basically transformed the stock market into a big speculative giant casino and gave free hand to big corporation to fuck up basically everything and everybody. It gave a lot of groth for some time, that's true, an enormous increase of inequalities everywhere, a huge public debt in every single developped country.
We are still in the era they introduced, and the crisis we are in is a direct consequence of their dreadful reforms. Bush and the New Labour are responsible for not doing anything about it.
On April 20 2012 01:58 Incognoto wrote: You know Biff, it's really not cool to call everyone else's political views shit without giving at least feasible arguments yourself. All you're doing is flaming all political parties that aren't left wing. It's incredibly annoying that I've had to ask more than once for you to explain why Hollande would be good for the country, all you're doing is calling everyone rude names without explaining yourself, and then you use the old dodging technique of "I can't be arsed to explain myself with fucking dumbasses such as yourself because it will lead no-where".
I'm still curious as to where you live you know. Sometimes people have strong opinions on matters they aren't familiar with. Whether or not that's your case is something I'd like to know because as of now I can't properly pinpoint you or your views.
I'll ask again, politely: Why is Hollande good for France? What is he going to actually do that will improve things?
The only party I called names are the FN, because well, they are fascists and racists, and I don't like them.
I think Sarkozy and his crew are a big joke, but that's really just my opinion.
As for DeepElemBlue, the only reason I don't want to discuss with him is that we had a zillion discussions on the same subject and I don't want to ruin this thread with empty polemic about how good or bad neoliberalism is, that's not the point of this election, since everybody agrees that it's terrible in France except maybe Miguet, a couple of business people, and Alain Madelin.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
I don't see why the fact he is a mason is in itself a problem. Masonerie is great when it's not used as an influence network (and it is not necessarly).
Now masonery and Le Siècle are completely different things. Why the fact he is a mason means he has to know about le diner du siècle?
I'm not saying that masonery is bad (or good lol), i'm just laughing at people who think that he is "hardcore" and different of the other politicians. They are all of the same breed and they live together.
What's the link between the fact he pretended not to know Le Siècle (which is probably a lie) and masonery. I still don't get it. Stop linking me to videos I don't have fifteen minutes to watch stuff made by random youtube users with boring sequences of Arlette Chabot everytime.
As for Melenchon as we see it being in large part a self made and well designed product probably very far from what he really is, that's obvious. See his friendship with Dassault and listen to his meeting, and you get it.
Well it doesn't seem obvious for everyone lol. Especially all the people who are believing his promises. Oh and the link with masonery is that they all know each others (politicians and journalists) they meet at the same places (and not just the parliament) and share the same interests. So if you think that this guy will change the situation well... you will get disappointed. He is working for Hollande and will get an important ministry, that's it. He won't cut heads and rich will still be rich.
Oh and come on... the part about Chabot was funny too.
Look that hardcore leftist. A true trotskomason LOL
Well Pujadas is an asshole though.
You are missing the point.
Melenchon is lying when he says that he doesn't know about "le diner du siècle". He is lying because he doesn't want to explain that he is a mason and he knows a lot about the dirty business of politics. That's tell a lot about his opinion of rank-and-file militants haha (i.e: he thinks that they are retarded).
Now if you really think that he will change anything you are delusional. Even if he wanted to change something he would not be able to do anything lol.
how do you know about Melenchon, masons, and that he is lying in this video?
Lol dude that shows how much clueless his militants really are.
I don't see why the fact he is a mason is in itself a problem. Masonerie is great when it's not used as an influence network (and it is not necessarly).
Now masonery and Le Siècle are completely different things. Why the fact he is a mason means he has to know about le diner du siècle?
I'm not saying that masonery is bad (or good lol), i'm just laughing at people who think that he is "hardcore" and different of the other politicians. They are all of the same breed and they live together.
What's the link between the fact he pretended not to know Le Siècle (which is probably a lie) and masonery. I still don't get it. Stop linking me to videos I don't have fifteen minutes to watch stuff made by random youtube users with boring sequences of Arlette Chabot everytime.
As for Melenchon as we see it being in large part a self made and well designed product probably very far from what he really is, that's obvious. See his friendship with Dassault and listen to his meeting, and you get it.
Well it doesn't seem obvious for everyone lol. Especially all the people who are believing his promises. Oh and the link with masonery is that they all know each others (politicians and journalists) they meet at the same places (and not just the parliament) and share the same interests. So if you think that this guy will change the situation well... you will get disappointed. He is working for Hollande and will get an important ministry, that's it. He won't cut heads and rich will still be rich.
Oh and come on... the part about Chabot was funny too.
People who want head being cut should vote for Poutou or Arthaud, I think.
Melenchon is not "anti-system", he is just doing a radical left party that will influence the socialist party. I don't think he will be a minister, because he has everything to lose by getting into a government. Le Front de Gauche is the French Die Linke and Melenchon is the French Oscar Lafontaine.
He is a professional politician. Well, i'm fine with that. I am a bit scared when I see someone like Nathalie Arthaud who seems to have no clue at all.
People tend to forget the most important element of that campaign:
Candidate Eva Joly (representing the green parts, far left, very ecology concerned) using Final Fantasy X's "To Zanarkand" theme for the background music of her official campaign clip.
This is not a joke and has been reported by many french "geeky" medias.
Melenchon embodies cultural and economical Marxist demagoguery in all its obscenity.
I'm not exactly fund of the FN, but they're the least bad... Hope Marine Le Pen gets to the second round and that her opponent dies of natural causes (only way for the FN to get elected ;D).
On April 20 2012 06:38 SiroKO wrote: Melenchon embodies cultural and economical Marxist demagoguery in all its obscenity.
I'm not exactly fund of the FN, but they're the least bad... Hope Marine Le Pen gets to the second round and that her opponent dies of natural causes (only way for the FN to get elected ;D).
I hope you dont understand, like 95% of people who support FN (and I'm not making that up, FN is based on big flashy statements about arabs, Europe, and other idiotic electoral subjects, but very few actually read what FN would do) what you are actually saying. I would just kindly recommend that you read the actual FN's program, come back here, and tell me that you want death penalty to be back, France basically getting isolated from Europe (good old laugh on that one), and the economical measures and the dramatical consequences those would have on our country. It's quite simple to tell, by the way you say it "least bad" etc. that you've just been seduced by the flashy shit, and you are what actually disgusts me in my country, the fact that people like you can give a vote so lightly, not having any idea of what it would actually mean in reality, except for "kicking the arabs out" (which is frankly, is FN's historical BASE, blind xenophobia, with absolutely no idea how to run a country, oh by the way, their leader is a woman, but they are also proved to be misogynistic, such lovely ideas).
It's sad, dangerous, and simply annoying to know that these idiots made april 2002 possible
EPT
