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Russian Federation112 Posts
On March 21 2012 07:01 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
What a constructive post... -What's so bad about Hadopi ? -Karachi, Bettancourt-Worth are pending affairs, there are absolutely no proofs of anything against Sarkozy at the moment. -Khadafi funded campaign is a rumor with only one source: Kadhafi's son. If you believe that well... can't do anything for you. -Regarding Romani people debate, it would seem that 2/3 frenchmen agree with Sarkozy's politics, you are in the minority here (source: http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2010/08/26/01002-20100826ARTFIG00567-roms-deux-francais-sur-trois-approuvent-le-gouvernement.php ) -The Fiscal Shield was a promised reform from the 2007 campaign. If he hadn't done it you would have said that he doesn't respect his promises. He recently went back on it following the financial crisis though. For information, even Hollande has a Fiscal Shield in his program. -Purchasing Power has actually gone up in France during the 5 last years (source OCDE stats). This is far from being the case for all the European countries through the crisis. -Sarkozy respected his engagements with regards to immigration. Immigration is now controlled at about 200 000 persons per year (a figure that was deemed too high by socialists Hollande and Mélanchon). -Regarding the rise of unemployment, France is one of the countries in Europe with the least increase in unemployment. Figures vary regarding what type of calculation is used, however, in all cases France is among the top 5 countries in Europe in this regard. -It is debatable whether VAT for restaurants is a good or bad thing. Personally, I find it better than an increase in taxes. -National Identity debate was a debate that was asked by a majority of Frenchmen in 2007. It has lead to criteria for obtaining the French nationality (language tests, culture minimums etc...). -Sarkozy increased his salary 172% to put it as high as that of the Prime Minister (18500€ / month) For reference, François Hollande and Segolene Royal's salary are above 30 000€ / month while they have minimal electoral tasks (president of region and president of department). -EPAD is a non event. Jean Sarkozy was elected by the people and had every legal right to apply for that job. In the end he didn't even present himself so no harm done. -The Bernard Tapie case was a mistake by the Justice system that cost a successful business man a good number of years of his life. Compensation was decided by a court. -Khadafi: what humiliation are you talking about ? -The Lisbone treaty position was decided commonly by UMP and PS (lead by François Hollande). The 2005 "no" by referundum has been analyzed by all to be a "no" to Chirac's government more than a "no" to the European preconstitution text proposed. -What lies about "paradis fiscaux" ? During Sarkozy's quinquénat, most notably switzerland had to give a lot of ground on their "bank secret" to avoid being classified as a "paradis fiscal". -"End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs Medical deductibles" Care to elaborate ? -Illegal migrant hunt (especially children) ???? -There were some potentially offensive sentences that were pronounced by one of the ministers indeed. -Al Assad friendship. Elaborate please. -Regarding nominations, François Holland has promised much worse as he said he would place only people from his political party at key places of power (prefects, conseil constitutionel, cours des comptes etc...). Sarkozy was the one to make a government composed partly of members of the opposition, he nominated a Socialist man head of the cours des comptes, and pushed DSK's candidacy at the head of the FMI. The system of the "copinage" is more present for Socialist people to be honest. What you can remember of Sarkozy's mandat for example: -The retirement reforms. Holland's program is to do exactly the same as Sarkozy, except raise the age limit to work before 19 instead of 18 for the right to retire at 60 and except maybe 2 or 3 detail points. -The higher education reform with the LRU that we talked about before -Reduction in public debt with the 1/2 civil servant politic (that françois hollande will continue to use) Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 06:58 EdouarKiLL wrote:On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
I am sure Geiko as the answer to your question: he got the answer to everything  (that will be somethong like "what you say is a fucking MARXIST propaganda !!!") x) I've never accused anyone of being Marxist, why would you say such a thing ? Maybe you have me confused with some other poster in the thread.
To be honest with you the only good idea Sarkozy had during the past 5 years is the Stiglitz Report ( the french version ).
This idea was great but kind of "far-leftist" (which is symptomatic of the "volatility" of sarkozy's ideas: he have no real "deep" reflection on society, economy, justice, humanity... he just have some ideas time to time ex:"hmm... today i will remove commercials from public television", but he is a genius whet it comes to be elected and manipulate opinions).
So, to makes this report he convoced several nobel prizes, they worked during months on it and Sarkozy did nothing with this report xD. (He was like "Yeah... I was joking guys !! trololo")
Geiko are you the only suport of sarkozy in this thread? =)
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On March 21 2012 07:28 EdouarKiLL wrote:Geiko are you the only suport of sarkozy in this thread? =)
Nah Koorb is another one. I mean this guy uses aAa news website ...
/troll
I'll read the thread when I have time; I may even throw a good post for once.
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On March 21 2012 07:28 EdouarKiLL wrote:
Geiko are you the only suport of sarkozy in this thread? =)
I like to think that there are approximately 1/3 of frenchmen who support Sarkozy.
Of course there are just as many who support Hollande but those are usually a bit more vocal on internet forums ^^
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On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
Only one thing i'll remember and never forget :
http://www.france24.com/fr/20100812-comite-onu-recrudescence-notable-racisme-france-roms-sarkozy-politique-securitaire-xenophobie (french version)
http://digitaljournal.com/article/295904 (english version, not the same article but on the same info)
Care to defend that geiko ?
One thing i know, if that racist get elected again, i'm not going stay calm for long.
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On March 21 2012 07:28 EdouarKiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 07:01 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
What a constructive post... -What's so bad about Hadopi ? -Karachi, Bettancourt-Worth are pending affairs, there are absolutely no proofs of anything against Sarkozy at the moment. -Khadafi funded campaign is a rumor with only one source: Kadhafi's son. If you believe that well... can't do anything for you. -Regarding Romani people debate, it would seem that 2/3 frenchmen agree with Sarkozy's politics, you are in the minority here (source: http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2010/08/26/01002-20100826ARTFIG00567-roms-deux-francais-sur-trois-approuvent-le-gouvernement.php ) -The Fiscal Shield was a promised reform from the 2007 campaign. If he hadn't done it you would have said that he doesn't respect his promises. He recently went back on it following the financial crisis though. For information, even Hollande has a Fiscal Shield in his program. -Purchasing Power has actually gone up in France during the 5 last years (source OCDE stats). This is far from being the case for all the European countries through the crisis. -Sarkozy respected his engagements with regards to immigration. Immigration is now controlled at about 200 000 persons per year (a figure that was deemed too high by socialists Hollande and Mélanchon). -Regarding the rise of unemployment, France is one of the countries in Europe with the least increase in unemployment. Figures vary regarding what type of calculation is used, however, in all cases France is among the top 5 countries in Europe in this regard. -It is debatable whether VAT for restaurants is a good or bad thing. Personally, I find it better than an increase in taxes. -National Identity debate was a debate that was asked by a majority of Frenchmen in 2007. It has lead to criteria for obtaining the French nationality (language tests, culture minimums etc...). -Sarkozy increased his salary 172% to put it as high as that of the Prime Minister (18500€ / month) For reference, François Hollande and Segolene Royal's salary are above 30 000€ / month while they have minimal electoral tasks (president of region and president of department). -EPAD is a non event. Jean Sarkozy was elected by the people and had every legal right to apply for that job. In the end he didn't even present himself so no harm done. -The Bernard Tapie case was a mistake by the Justice system that cost a successful business man a good number of years of his life. Compensation was decided by a court. -Khadafi: what humiliation are you talking about ? -The Lisbone treaty position was decided commonly by UMP and PS (lead by François Hollande). The 2005 "no" by referundum has been analyzed by all to be a "no" to Chirac's government more than a "no" to the European preconstitution text proposed. -What lies about "paradis fiscaux" ? During Sarkozy's quinquénat, most notably switzerland had to give a lot of ground on their "bank secret" to avoid being classified as a "paradis fiscal". -"End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs Medical deductibles" Care to elaborate ? -Illegal migrant hunt (especially children) ???? -There were some potentially offensive sentences that were pronounced by one of the ministers indeed. -Al Assad friendship. Elaborate please. -Regarding nominations, François Holland has promised much worse as he said he would place only people from his political party at key places of power (prefects, conseil constitutionel, cours des comptes etc...). Sarkozy was the one to make a government composed partly of members of the opposition, he nominated a Socialist man head of the cours des comptes, and pushed DSK's candidacy at the head of the FMI. The system of the "copinage" is more present for Socialist people to be honest. What you can remember of Sarkozy's mandat for example: -The retirement reforms. Holland's program is to do exactly the same as Sarkozy, except raise the age limit to work before 19 instead of 18 for the right to retire at 60 and except maybe 2 or 3 detail points. -The higher education reform with the LRU that we talked about before -Reduction in public debt with the 1/2 civil servant politic (that françois hollande will continue to use) On March 21 2012 06:58 EdouarKiLL wrote:On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
I am sure Geiko as the answer to your question: he got the answer to everything (that will be somethong like "what you say is a fucking MARXIST propaganda !!!") x) I've never accused anyone of being Marxist, why would you say such a thing ? Maybe you have me confused with some other poster in the thread. To be honest with you the only good idea Sarkozy had during the past 5 years is the Stiglitz Report ( the french version ). This idea was great but kind of "far-leftist" (which is symptomatic of the "volatility" of sarkozy's ideas: he have no real "deep" reflection on society, economy, justice, humanity... he just have some ideas time to time ex:"hmm... today i will remove commercials from public television", but he is a genius whet it comes to be elected and manipulate opinions). So, to makes this report he convoced several nobel prizes, they worked during months on it and Sarkozy did nothing with this report xD. (He was like "Yeah... I was joking guys !! trololo") Geiko are you the only suport of sarkozy in this thread? =)
I feel like I'm the only one posting constructively here. Most of the posts are like yours: 5 line posts with
Sarkozy is a [insert insult here] because of [insert various themes here] with no justifications.
You say "which is symptomatic of the "volatility" of sarkozy's ideas: he have no real "deep" reflection on society, economy, justice, humanity... ". Do you care to elaborate on this or is the burden on me to explain the reasoning behind each and every one of Sarkozy's reforms ?
There is also an ongoing discussion about the universities in France which is unfinished but no one seems to want to answer to my points.
Also, feel free to talk about any aspect of Sarkozy's politics or interesting problems in France in general (that is to say that don't involve rumors and scandals), I will gladly answer any questions you guys might have on serious issues (unless you're more interested in the gossip from "le canard enchaîné" ...)
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On March 21 2012 07:42 Nyarly wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
Only one thing i'll remember and never forget : http://www.france24.com/fr/20100812-comite-onu-recrudescence-notable-racisme-france-roms-sarkozy-politique-securitaire-xenophobie (french version) http://digitaljournal.com/article/295904 (english version, not the same article but on the same info) Care to defend that geiko ? One thing i know, if that racist get elected again, i'm not going stay calm for long.
I've already responded to this. Well not really responded but I gave an article link where polls showed that 66% of frenchmen agreed with Nicolas Sarkozy on his decision process regarding "les roms". http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2010/08/26/01002-20100826ARTFIG00567-roms-deux-francais-sur-trois-approuvent-le-gouvernement.php
There was a also a TL thread about this very problem were I believe most people shared the beliefs of Sarkozy.
Of course this is a very delicate subject, I don't really feel like enumerating everything that was said before as that would be way too long, but you can gather arguments for both sides here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269692 .
My personal opinion is that, the political decisions were the correct response, however, more attention should have been made with the wording used which is what caused most of the upset I think.
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Noone has talked about the media so I'll leave my thoughts. They're biased.
During the socialist primaries, they had 2 full prime-time show on France 2, and France 2 told us that they would compensate and they wouldn't have any more shows about their candidate. Hollande had 2 more prime-time shows after that.
Earlier this year the CSA warned tv channels and radios that they'd mostly talked about Hollande and Sarkozy (75% of the time on radio and 70% for both radio and TV), but the CSA didn't take measures.
Today the official campaign was supposed to start, giving every candidate the same amount of time to talk in the media, but the CSA decided to stop counting time because of the jewish school murder. So now we have Hollande and Sarkozy once again monopolizing time on TV. This is disgusting.
I watched I-télé this evening and they had a show about Gueant, Bayrou, a UMP minister and Sarkozy's declaration. At the end of the show the lady anchor said to the expert "now we have a bit more time, what do you want to talk about ? Melenchon's declaration, Sarkozy's declaration... ?" The expert started talking about Sarkozy and then the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between every candidate" and the lady anchor said "no !" reminding him they didn't need to count anymore because of the CSA. And they proceeded to show the declaration of Sarkozy. And then after that the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between candidates" and he closed the show. Disgusting.
PS Geiko about le "canard enchaîné" being a gossip newpaper, Sarkozy was actually a writter for them at one point. They released his nickname when he got elected, I can't remember what it was but you can search.
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On March 21 2012 07:59 chuky500 wrote:
Noone has talked about the media so I'll leave my thoughts. They're biased.
During the socialist primaries, they had 2 full prime-time show on France 2, and France 2 told us that they would compensate and they wouldn't have any more shows about their candidate. Holland had 2 more prime-time shows after that.
Earlier this year the CSA warned tv channels and radios that they'd mostly talked about Holland and Sarkozy (75% of the time on radio and 70% for both radio and TV), but the CSA didn't take measures.
Today the official campaign was supposed to start giving every candidate the same amount of time to talk in the media, but the CSA decided to stop counting time because of the jewish school murder. So now we have Hollande and Sarkozy once again monopolizing time on TV. This is disgusting.
I watched I-télé this evening and they had a show about Gueant, Bayrou, a UMP minister and Sarkozy's declaration. At the end of the show the lady anchor said to the expert "now we have a bit more time, what do you want to talk about ? Melenchon's declaration, Sarkozy's declaration... ?" The expert started talking about Sarkozy and then the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between every candidate" and the lady anchor said "no !" reminding him they didn't need to count anymore because of the CSA. And they proceeded to show the declaration of Sarkozy. And then after that the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between candidates" and he closed the show. Disgusting.
On this subject, something I find disgusting is the absurd number of ultra left wing candidates with regards to equality of time on TV.
Basically, all these candidates have already signed an agreement for the presidential elections, were parliament seats are handed out (15 % to the front de gauche, 5% to the "verts" etc...) They're all really rooting for the same candidate at the second round of the election so starting tomorow, television time will be 60% left wing ideas, 10% Sarkozy's idea, 10% Bayrou's ideas and 20% ultra right ideas. That somehow doesn't seem really all that fair.
On March 21 2012 07:59 chuky500 wrote:
PS Geiko about le "canard enchaîné" being a gossip newpaper, Sarkozy was actually a writter for them at one point. They released his nickname when he got elected, I can't remember what it was but you can search.
You got a source for that ? I can't find anything. I know that Sarkozy recently mocked the canard enchaîné for providing unreliable information in the last "Grand Journal" of canal + last week.
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That doesn't explains or justify anything, it only means that 66% of frenchmen are racists too, which isn't really surprising.
And btw if you refuses to take le canard enchainé seriously, please don't post things from le figaro.
On March 21 2012 07:58 Geiko wrote:There was a also a TL thread about this very problem were I believe most people shared the beliefs of Sarkozy. Of course this is a very delicate subject, I don't really feel like enumerating everything that was said before as that would be way too long, but you can gather arguments for both sides here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269692 . My personal opinion is that, the political decisions were the correct response, however, more attention should have been made with the wording used which is what caused most of the upset I think.
The ‘Country of Human Rights’ is being accused of fostering racist and xenophobic tendencies by the United Nations.
UN is a pretty big deal you know ? They won't say this type of things unless they really mean it.
That being said, how can you agree with the political decisions ? Unless you're a racist too, we should know that, it would help understanding your opinions.
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Sarkozy wasn't offically candidate until lately, so he had plenty of uncounted time to speak freely about his program like the social TVA.
PS (copy paste because Geiko didn't read it) about le "canard enchaîné" being a gossip newpaper, Sarkozy was actually a writter for them at one point. They released his nickname when he got elected, I can't remember what it was but you can search.
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On March 21 2012 08:07 Nyarly wrote:That doesn't explains or justify anything, it only means that 66% of frenchmen are racists too, which isn't really surprising. Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 07:58 Geiko wrote:There was a also a TL thread about this very problem were I believe most people shared the beliefs of Sarkozy. Of course this is a very delicate subject, I don't really feel like enumerating everything that was said before as that would be way too long, but you can gather arguments for both sides here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269692 . My personal opinion is that, the political decisions were the correct response, however, more attention should have been made with the wording used which is what caused most of the upset I think. Show nested quote +The ‘Country of Human Rights’ is being accused of fostering racist and xenophobic tendencies by the United Nations. UN is a pretty big deal you know ? They won't say this type of things unless they really mean it. That being said, how can you agree with the political decisions ? Unless you're a racist too, we should know that, it would help understanding your opinions.
It's relevant that Nicolas Sarkozy being the president of France does actions that a majority of french people agree on. It's called democracy.
Systematically discarding ideas as racist (along with all those who agree with said ideas) isn't really a democratic method.
If you wish to discuss more about this subject, please tell me what part of his actions you found racist and were most upset with. The UN were apparently upset with the fact that he named the gypsyies "les roms" and did some generalizations maybe. But regarding the actual decisions, do you disagree with closing the gypsy camps and expulsing romanians without papers out of France ?
On March 21 2012 08:12 chuky500 wrote:
PS (copy paste because Geiko didn't read it) about le "canard enchaîné" being a gossip newpaper, Sarkozy was actually a writter for them at one point. They released his nickname when he got elected, I can't remember what it was but you can search.
Already edited on that after your edit.
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Russian Federation112 Posts
Geiko what is you position (oops i mean the position of ump) about oil peak plz ? =)
And also what are the principal issues in the world an in france nowaydays for you?
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On March 21 2012 03:47 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:
Also his quote makes sense to some extend since he is against multiculturalism (which is the reason why terrorism happen btw). Why no terrorism in SK or Japan for example ? Because those countries are isolationists and almost monocultural. This isn't a fact, it's a delusion close to Zemmour's ramblings. 1) Terrorism isn't a big deal, and is not related to multicultiralism (unless you believe that Al-Andalus, pre-1917 Lebanon or France are ridden with terrorism). I think that there is a bigger lead regarding government authoritarism and culture (not multiculture). Terrorism is a non-issue. Sorry to all victims, but I'm more likely to die in a bus accident.
So basicly you say that i'm wrong but you can't explain why and you are just saying "that there is a bigger issue" and then you give some random examples from the past (when mass medias didn't exist lol). You have obviously no idea about the concept of terrorism. Just take a look at a world map and look where terrorist attacks happen and what are the ideological reasons behind it.
On March 21 2012 03:47 Kukaracha wrote:
2) France has always been a multicultural country. Rennes was as different to Nice than it was to Nottingham. As an example, people from Bretagne who were sent to defend Paris in 1870 felt as if they were sacrificed to defend a foreign city. They wouldn't even speak french as their first language.
People speak of multiculturalism as a plague that should be avoided. Well, this has happenend for millenia before globalization even occurred, and while the current situation accelerates changes and exacerbates differences, it's unstoppable. You could slow it down with a great deal of violence, though.
That's very nice but i don't care since i have no personal opinion about mono or multiculturalism. All i'm saying is the guy assimilating Breivik to the FN doesn't really understand the huge ideological difference and he is implying that the FN is supporting terrorism just because they are against multiculturalism.
On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:
edit: not saying that i agree with him by any means lol. Just trying to explain the HUGE difference between the FN and someone like Breivik, something that journalists never bother to explain because they are dishonest and stupid.
They don't explain it because people in general are stupid and dishonest, and don't want to learn the truth or challenge their own opinions (this includes everyone in this thread).
If you want to go deeper in the question, you could take a course in ethnology, sociology, and history, and then maybe you could have an idea of what you're talking about.
Don't criticize the other's pants when you don't even have a pair yourself.
Such a pathetic answer. Like if you are more qualified than me haha. No actually you are just really angry because someone told you that Breivik is ideologically closer of people like Finkielkraut than of the FN lol.
@Wegandi: yea non-interventionist is a better word since they are exporting / importing a lot. I was talking about their foreign policy (military interventions etc...).
Also you should take a look at Breivik's manifesto for the neo con part.
Some quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +(introduction)
It covers the following main topics:
-The rise of cultural Marxism/multiculturalism in Western Europe
-Why the Islamic colonization and Islamisation of Western Europe began
-The current state of the Western European Resistance Movements (anti-Marxist/anti-Jihad movements)
As a non-religious person, but still one that acknowledges and respects the impact of Judeo-Christian thinking on Western culture, I have warned against naive Christian compassion[1] related to Muslim immigration, as well as a disturbing tendency among too many Christian organisations to ally themselves with Muslims, for "religious values" and against Israel.
...
The First Commandment of multiculturalism is: Thou shalt hate Christianity and Judaism. Multiculturalists also hate nation states, and they even hate the Enlightenment, by insisting that non-Western cultures should be above scrutiny.
...
Some of the people I meet in the U.S. are particularly worried about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe. They are correct when they fear that anti-Semitism is also on the rise among non-immigrant Europeans. The latter hate people with a fighting spirit. Contemporary anti-Semitism in Europe (at least when coming from native Europeans) is related to anti-Americanism. People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit, hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.
This is why they have come to hate Israel and America so much, and the small band of European “islamophobes” who dare to talk about what they see happening around them. West Europeans have to choose between submission (islam) or death. I fear, like Broder, that they have chosen submission – just like in former days when they preferred to be red rather than dead.
I have heard comments that it isn’t practically doable to contain the Islamic world behind some artificial Maginot Line. When the Mongols could simply go around the Great Wall of China in the thirteenth century, it will be impossible to contain anybody in an age of modern communication technology. No, it won’t be easy, but we should at least try. Containment isn’t necessarily the only thing we need to do, just the very minimum that is acceptable. Perhaps the spread of nuclear technology will indeed trigger a large-scale war with the Islamic world at some point. The only way to prevent this is to take steps, including military ones, to deprive Muslims of dangerous technology. Jihad is waged by military, political, financial, demographic and diplomatic means. The defence against Jihad has to be equally diverse.
And let’s end the stupid support for the Palestinians that the Eurabians have encouraged and start supporting our cultural cousin, Israel. Europe’s first line of defence starts in Jerusalem.
( that one is great lol) 2.104 Future deportations of Muslims from Europe
“It’s difficult to discuss deportation of Muslims openly in a society where it is not even allowed to discuss Islam…”
The reason why authors on the Eurabia related issues/Islamisation of Europe - Fjordman, Spencer, Ye’or, Bostom etc. aren’t actively discussing deportation is because the method is considered too extreme (and thus would damage their reputational shields). This would un-doubtfully undermine their work and probably disallowing them to publish any future books. However, the warning about Islam has been repeated for more than two decades and it is apparent that 40 more years of dialogue, without action, would have a devastating effect on Europe. If these authors are to scared to propagate a conservative revolution and armed resistance then other authors will have to.
Deportation as the only alternative (Kosovo, Israel illustration) Most Jews supported the “politically correct” establishment because they felt that it suited their needs. Another reason is that support to them will more effectively convert into pro-Israel policies. They also wanted to prevent and undermine any potential nationalistic revitalisation due to the fear of National Socialism. To the Jewish community, multiculturalism is the best short term solution for securing their goals of “de-Nazifying” Europe. They do not yet fully trust the pro-Israel, anti-immigration parties in the few countries where these exist. Furthermore, just like non-Jews, they don’t comprehend the long term effects of multiculturalism. They haven’t yet realised that Western European countries (and Israel for that matter) will have a Muslim majority by 2080. At the same time they feel an increased scepticism towards the increased Islamisation.
Jews are not supporting enough Israel according to Breivik (lol). Jews will in a much larger degree start to support the “new right” (just like everyone else), who oppose multiculturalism as a means to stop Islamisation, at least this is my hope. In the back of their minds they realise that a Muslim Europe will be more "anti-Semitic than a Christian Europe. Muslims don’t have the guilt complex that Europeans have. Many Jews feel they are trapped between the “bark and the wood”, they are both sceptical of Muslim immigration on one side and of the nationalist far right wing movements on the other side.
I could go on but his mess is just too boresome to read. He is an European neocon.
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The monopolization bewteen Hollande and Sarkozy is bothering, true. Surveys should also simply be removed, too, they create the idea of a "useful" choice and prevent people from voting for who they really believe into.
About many French being somewhat racist/xenophobic, I believe it's true, it's not hard to believe given the times we live in and the global mediocrity of the population.
However, should we listen to such voices? Mitterand put and end to the death penalty in 1981 against popular will, and I believe it was a great decision.
Now, I don't find it wise to attack le Canard, simply because it's one of the last "free" newspapers out there. It does have a leftist bias, but they fire on pretty much anybody, with no other goal than to foutre le bordel. Which is preferable to any kind of Figaro or l'Humanité.
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On March 21 2012 08:06 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 07:59 chuky500 wrote:
Noone has talked about the media so I'll leave my thoughts. They're biased.
During the socialist primaries, they had 2 full prime-time show on France 2, and France 2 told us that they would compensate and they wouldn't have any more shows about their candidate. Holland had 2 more prime-time shows after that.
Earlier this year the CSA warned tv channels and radios that they'd mostly talked about Holland and Sarkozy (75% of the time on radio and 70% for both radio and TV), but the CSA didn't take measures.
Today the official campaign was supposed to start giving every candidate the same amount of time to talk in the media, but the CSA decided to stop counting time because of the jewish school murder. So now we have Hollande and Sarkozy once again monopolizing time on TV. This is disgusting.
I watched I-télé this evening and they had a show about Gueant, Bayrou, a UMP minister and Sarkozy's declaration. At the end of the show the lady anchor said to the expert "now we have a bit more time, what do you want to talk about ? Melenchon's declaration, Sarkozy's declaration... ?" The expert started talking about Sarkozy and then the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between every candidate" and the lady anchor said "no !" reminding him they didn't need to count anymore because of the CSA. And they proceeded to show the declaration of Sarkozy. And then after that the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between candidates" and he closed the show. Disgusting. On this subject, something I find disgusting is the absurd number of ultra left wing candidates with regards to equality of time on TV.
Ahahahahaha. Blame Sarkozy for locking the right wing under his... wing then. Even Borloo. He doesn't want any other candidate or discording voice, he has to deal with it. Do you think they haven't made deals ? Ahahah.
You have to remember quite a lot of right wing people are going to vote for Sarkozy because they don't have a CHOICE. He's the only one. Remember the 25/30% popularity he had at some times. That means even on his side, a lot of people weren't happy. He's the only one, so he thinks everybody supports him... what a joke.
And then you complain about the equality of screen time ? lol. You reap what you sow :>
about the free internships for grandes écoles, there are only around 2k instead of the 20k announced.
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On March 21 2012 08:18 EdouarKiLL wrote:
Geiko what is you position (oops i mean the position of ump) about oil peak plz ? =)
I don't like it. It's getting more and more expensive to drive to work everyday :'(
(my answer is as precise as your question is)
On March 21 2012 08:22 Nouar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 08:06 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 07:59 chuky500 wrote:
Noone has talked about the media so I'll leave my thoughts. They're biased.
During the socialist primaries, they had 2 full prime-time show on France 2, and France 2 told us that they would compensate and they wouldn't have any more shows about their candidate. Holland had 2 more prime-time shows after that.
Earlier this year the CSA warned tv channels and radios that they'd mostly talked about Holland and Sarkozy (75% of the time on radio and 70% for both radio and TV), but the CSA didn't take measures.
Today the official campaign was supposed to start giving every candidate the same amount of time to talk in the media, but the CSA decided to stop counting time because of the jewish school murder. So now we have Hollande and Sarkozy once again monopolizing time on TV. This is disgusting.
I watched I-télé this evening and they had a show about Gueant, Bayrou, a UMP minister and Sarkozy's declaration. At the end of the show the lady anchor said to the expert "now we have a bit more time, what do you want to talk about ? Melenchon's declaration, Sarkozy's declaration... ?" The expert started talking about Sarkozy and then the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between every candidate" and the lady anchor said "no !" reminding him they didn't need to count anymore because of the CSA. And they proceeded to show the declaration of Sarkozy. And then after that the anchorman said "now the time is stricly even between candidates" and he closed the show. Disgusting. On this subject, something I find disgusting is the absurd number of ultra left wing candidates with regards to equality of time on TV. Ahahahahaha. Blame Sarkozy for locking the right wing under his... wing then. Even Borloo. He doesn't want any other candidate or discording voice, he has to deal with it. Do you think they haven't made deals ? Ahahah. You have to remember quite a lot of right wing people are going to vote for Sarkozy because they don't have a CHOICE. He's the only one. Remember the 25/30% popularity he had at some times. That means even on his side, a lot of people weren't happy. He's the only one, so he thinks everybody supports him... what a joke. And then you complain about the equality of screen time ? lol. You reap what you sow :> about the free internships for grandes écoles, there are only around 2k instead of the 20k announced.
Deals were made at right too. Now that they share the same goal, they have the decency to only put forward one candidate and not pollute the political TV scene with candidates that won't even get 5% of votes. Poutou, Joly and Arthaud already got what they wanted from the PS, as did Mélanchon. Now they're just going to use their TV time as free Sarkozy bashing time
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Russian Federation112 Posts
On March 21 2012 08:24 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 08:18 EdouarKiLL wrote:
Geiko what is you position (oops i mean the position of ump) about oil peak plz ? =) I don't like it. It's getting more and more expensive to drive to work everyday :'( (my answer is as precise as your question is)
Your answer is awesome man, dont worry
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didint even know there was a election in france until now ^^ thanks for the information,good read also.
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On March 21 2012 08:20 Boblion wrote:
So basicly you say that i'm wrong but you can't explain why and you are just saying "that there is a bigger issue" and then you give some random examples from the past (when mass medias didn't exist lol). You have obviously no idea about the concept of terrorism. Just take a look at a world map and look where terrorist attacks happen and what are the ideological reasons behind it.
Yup, I say that you're wrong but that I won't have the arrogance to explain terrorism by "magnets lol".
Terrorists have struck pretty much everywhere. Action Directe in France, MIR in Chile, AQMI in the Makhreb, Ku Klux Klan in the US... note that not all of those focus on cultural clashes.
On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:
Such a pathetic answer. Like if you are more qualified than me haha. No actually you are just really angry because someone told you that Breivik is ideologically closer of people like Finkielkraut than of the FN lol.
I am as qualified as you are (wich means that I'm unqualified), but I simply wanted to correct the nonsensical parts of your post. Wether those are related or not, I have no idea (but I will believe you).
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On March 21 2012 08:28 EdouarKiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 08:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 08:18 EdouarKiLL wrote:
Geiko what is you position (oops i mean the position of ump) about oil peak plz ? =) I don't like it. It's getting more and more expensive to drive to work everyday :'( (my answer is as precise as your question is) Your answer is awesome man, dont worry
Let me decipher my previous message for you:
I wanted you to elaborate on what particular issue you were talking about ("thoughts on oil prices ?" seems a bit vague to answer) and how relevant it was with regards to French national elections (I'm guessing you have some sort of grief against Sarkozy for something he might have done regarding oil prices ?)
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EPT
