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On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself.
Yeah, he's well know as a racist.
The good thing is that he retired from politic. His daughter, Marine, took his place on the extrem right wing throne and is candidate for the first time this year.
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On March 21 2012 00:39 Geiko wrote:Why do you think no ones try to correct this injustice and raise the taxes for rich people ? I'll give you the answer: because all of the canton's are afraid that the rich would leave to another canton (taxes are determined regionally fo the most part and not nationally in Switzerland). Do you think the canton of Geneva for example have "failed" (your words) at everything else when they propose ridiculously low "forfait fiscaux" to the extremely wealthy tax payers ?
Yes, i think they have.
And btw. it's actually not true, the special (flat) for rich are on the backfoot atm.
And this has still nothing to do with this topic.
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On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself.
Yes Jean-Marie Le Pen is sadly known for his ultra-right ideas and (indirect) support of war criminals, negationism etc...
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Fine if you're happy because you've watched the mainstream shows and a few mettings. Keep your e$ but know that I still watched more than that.
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On March 21 2012 00:49 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:39 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:36 Velr wrote:
Yeah, and it's wrong. Why do you think no ones try to correct this injustice and raise the taxes for rich people ? I'll give you the answer: because all of the canton's are afraid that the rich would leave to another canton (taxes are determined regionally fo the most part and not nationally in Switzerland). Do you think the canton of Geneva for example have "failed" (your words) at everything else when they propose ridiculously low "forfait fiscaux" to the extremely wealthy tax payers ? Yes, i think they have. And btw. it's actually not true, the special (flat) for rich are on the backfoot atm. And this has still nothing to do with this topic.
I'm sure every departement in France would love to have "failed" as hard as geneva then 
I already explained how this has to do with this topic.
On March 21 2012 00:50 chuky500 wrote:
Fine if you're happy because you've watched the mainstream shows and a few mettings. Keep your e$ but know that I still watched more than that.
Omg you watched more than that ? I'm a bored university student (living on free swiss education) who watches these during
courses but congrats on finding time to be as implicated as you obviously are in your country's political life. Much respect. I'll gladly split the Million with you then.
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On March 21 2012 00:49 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:39 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:36 Velr wrote:
Yeah, and it's wrong. Why do you think no ones try to correct this injustice and raise the taxes for rich people ? I'll give you the answer: because all of the canton's are afraid that the rich would leave to another canton (taxes are determined regionally fo the most part and not nationally in Switzerland). Do you think the canton of Geneva for example have "failed" (your words) at everything else when they propose ridiculously low "forfait fiscaux" to the extremely wealthy tax payers ? Yes, i think they have. And btw. it's actually not true, the special (flat) for rich are on the backfoot atm. And this has still nothing to do with this topic.
It has something to do with EU charging laws and the fact they are not the same everywhere.
Speaking about french politic and speaking about EU politic in the same time is far to be out of topic.
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On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program.
No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it.
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On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it.
If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede.
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On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program.
WHAT ?
Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes.
It's in his program since day 1.
Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well.
And in both case you should stop talking.
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On March 21 2012 01:01 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it. If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede.
1. Hollande belongs to the PS which brought up the idea before anyone else.
2. Jérôme Cahuzac, who brought the idea back in 2010-2011 after DSK put it forward in 2007, is in the current Hollande team.
(3. Although similar, the ideas put forward by Hollande and Sarkozy differ in some key aspects.)
Sarkozy made the "noisiest" announcement, but the socialists brought up the idea way before him.
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On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking.
Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first.
Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about.
Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ?
Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first:
-Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it
-Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition
-Retirement Reform
-Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ?
On March 21 2012 01:23 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:01 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it. If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede. 1. Hollande belongs to the PS which brought up the idea before anyone else.
Can I quote you on the fact that people in the PS share the same ideas ? It'll be extremely useful later when we talk about ANY subject and I can point out 2 members of the PS with radically different opinions.
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On March 21 2012 00:47 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself. Yeah, he's well know as a racist. The good thing is that he retired from politic. His daughter, Marine, took his place on the extrem right wing throne and is candidate for the first time this year.
Haha, he's due to appear in trial for the torture and murder of an innocent man in front of his whole family in Algeria. They actually found his personal knife (with his name carved in the blade) on the scene.
Yup, that man's pretty hardcore.
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@dafunk: no need to be so harsh 
Very nice thread OP, great initiative.
By the way, why did you classified Sarkozy at Far Right? He does not belong there, imo.
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On March 20 2012 23:59 Surili wrote:
For clarification, the two round system means that i can vote for the person i WANT to win in the first round (Green) and then get serious and vote against the person i don't want to win in the second round right?
Yes, then no.
First round is usually used to state preferences, seen both as a guideline for the themes to be discussed in the second round between the main candidates and as a tool for small parties to bargain for a place in the government. For example, green votes above 8-9% would probably mean the creation of a ministry of ecology with a green minister in case of Hollande being elected.
But at the same time, this artificially lowers the votes for the main candidates. In 2002, first round votes spread amongst 16 candidates, which lead to a second round between the far-right Jean-Marie Le Pen (16,86%) and right-president Jacques Chirac (19,88%), when the main left candidate Lionel Jospin fell short (16,18%). Of course, this also meant that Jacques Chirac had the election won after the first round (final scores 80-20 for the second round). Lionel Jospin was the favorite to win the second round, had his supporters not chosen lesser candidates in the first round.
It is not uncommon to hear main candidates refer to this election, which in turn means most lesser candidates cannot expect to get 5% in the first round. Since 5% is the minimum score to receive a full state funding for campaign expenses, those candidates spend less, which lowers their vote count.
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On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ?
Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job.
Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been as far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility.
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On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:23 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 01:01 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it. If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede. 1. Hollande belongs to the PS which brought up the idea before anyone else. Can I quote you on the fact that people in the PS share the same ideas ? It'll be extremely useful later when we talk about ANY subject and I can point out 2 members of the PS with radically different opinions.
Please, don't start with the strawmans.
You made a factually incorrect statement and you got called out on it. If you didn't want people to react to your statement, you shouldn't have made it in the first place.
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On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility.
This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ...
But great we can talk about a real subject for once.
What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms (past and proposed) ?
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On March 21 2012 01:31 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:23 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 01:01 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it. If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede. 1. Hollande belongs to the PS which brought up the idea before anyone else. Can I quote you on the fact that people in the PS share the same ideas ? It'll be extremely useful later when we talk about ANY subject and I can point out 2 members of the PS with radically different opinions. Please, don't start with the strawmans. You made a factually incorrect statement and you got called out on it. If you didn't want people to react to your statement, you shouldn't have made it in the first place.
I also made a shit ton more of statements on important issues that no one has cared to follow up on. If you're only going to contribute to the discussion by stating that I was wrong in saying one candidate came up first with an idea (which i didn't), then you might as well not contribute at all, or at the very least, accept the fact that I find this contribution unimportant.
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On March 21 2012 01:33 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility. This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ... But great we can talk about a real subject for once. What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms past and proposed) ?
You want to talk about the LRU law concerning Universities ?
We are going to end up like germany and england and will have to pay ten of thousands euros to get a uni education.
When every other possibilities are private schools, how do poor people can afford higher education ?
It also means that small Universities are going to slowly die because they are less attractive. So people that arent living in big cities or enclaved regions will have to move to get a good education.
How much more is that going to cost students ?
I do not consider that you should start in life with 30k€ debts.
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On March 21 2012 01:37 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:31 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:23 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 01:01 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 00:58 kwizach wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. No, that is wrong. It was initially brought up by DSK, and Sarkozy came last with it. If by "last" you mean "before Hollande" then ok, I concede. 1. Hollande belongs to the PS which brought up the idea before anyone else. Can I quote you on the fact that people in the PS share the same ideas ? It'll be extremely useful later when we talk about ANY subject and I can point out 2 members of the PS with radically different opinions. Please, don't start with the strawmans. You made a factually incorrect statement and you got called out on it. If you didn't want people to react to your statement, you shouldn't have made it in the first place. I also made a shit ton more of statements on important issues that no one has cared to follow up on. If you're only going to contribute to the discussion by stating that I was wrong in saying one candidate came up first with an idea (which i didn't), then you might as well not contribute at all, or at the very least, accept the fact that I find this contribution unimportant.
You made the following claim: "Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program". This was wrong on two accounts, like I pointed out. If you had accepted your mistake and moved on we'd have stopped discussing it by now. Instead, you keep trying to defend yourself while simultaneously complaining that people call you out on that claim. Be my guest and move on.
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EPT
