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France266 Posts
On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself.
You well recall. After the shootings, he stated that, quote, "Norway's naivety and Norwegian society's naivety are worst than the shootings itself", and regarded the shooting as an "accident" (cf. Le Figaro).
He is used to this kind of provocation/trash talk, he was actually convicted at least twice of holocaust denial during his political career
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On March 21 2012 01:37 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:33 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility. This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ... But great we can talk about a real subject for once. What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms past and proposed) ? You want to talk about the LRU law concerning Universities ? We are going to end up like germany and england and will have to pay ten of thousands euros to get a uni education. When every other possibilities are private schools, how do poor people can afford higher education ? It also means that small Universities are going to slowly die because they are less attractive. So people that arent living in big cities or enclaved regions will have to move to get a good education. How much more is that going to cost students ? I do not consider that you should start in life with 30k€ debts.
Yes let's talk about this law, great subject.
First-off, I'd like to remind you that this proposition was in Sarkozy's campaign project for 2007. Project for which the people voted as a whole (53%) so you can't really blame Sarkozy for doing what he promised (in reference to all the public outcries from minorities in universities etc...)
Second of all, in actuality, this law is backed by an additional 40 Billion € invested in higher education for France.
Regarding the law in itself, the main objective is and has always been a centralization of all universities (and grande écoles) in France as super campus so as to gain international visibility. Personally, I come from one of the best renowned grande école in France and it always pisses me off when I show my resume to a US firm/lab and they ask me what university I come from because they have never heard of it.
Look at al the school rankings, and try to find which are the first french school (waaaaay down the list) : universities like Dauphine etc... which have more visibility. Which schools come up first ? All the private funded US schools. Which country is more attractive for young foreign researchers ?
We are not yet at a point where we need to worry about 30k€ debts by the way. The law has been promulgated in 2007 and 5 years later, universities in France are still free. You're waving those 30k€ as a scarecrow when in fact this is very far from reality.
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On March 20 2012 05:51 1Eris1 wrote:
75% income tax on those making >1000k? blahhh
You're reading it wrong. It's not 75% income tax on your salary, but 75% tax on your salary over 1.000.000€
If you win 1.000.100€, you pay the taxes for 1.000.000 plus 75€.
Atm the taxes are :
To 5 963€ : 0 %
From 5 964 to 11 896€ : 5,5 %
From 11 897 to 26 420€ : 14 %
From 26 421 to 70 830€ : 30 %
From 70 830€ : 41 %
Even if you win 24165479876541321657988745641324657987€, you won't pay taxes on the first 5963€.
This «75% income tax» is in fact not that bad if you're just near the border. If you're around 3.000.000 though, it's a big change.
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On March 21 2012 01:49 Koorb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself. You well recall. After the shootings, he stated that, quote, "Norway's naivety and Norwegian society's naivety are worst than the shootings itself", and regarded the shooting as an "accident" (cf. Le Figaro). He is used to this kind of provocation/trash talk, he was actually convicted at least twice of holocaust denial during his political career
Breivik is a neo con, he is pro christianity, pro judaism, pro Israel.
He is anti muslim and anti leftist ideas.
Le Pen is a nationalist and an isolationist. Also all his provocations about the Holocaust makes him very different of Breivik. Doesn't mean he likes Islam and leftist ideas though. But if you look in the grand scheme of things he is not thinking that the world is a struggle between West and East. He was against the war in Iraq or Libya for example.
Also his quote makes sense to some extend since he is against multiculturalism (which is the reason why terrorism happen btw). Why no terrorism in SK or Japan for example ? Because those countries are isolationists and almost monocultural.
edit: not saying that i agree with him by any means lol. Just trying to explain the HUGE difference between the FN and someone like Breivik, something that journalists never bother to explain because they are dishonest and stupid.
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On March 21 2012 01:50 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:37 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 01:33 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility. This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ... But great we can talk about a real subject for once. What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms past and proposed) ? You want to talk about the LRU law concerning Universities ? We are going to end up like germany and england and will have to pay ten of thousands euros to get a uni education. When every other possibilities are private schools, how do poor people can afford higher education ? It also means that small Universities are going to slowly die because they are less attractive. So people that arent living in big cities or enclaved regions will have to move to get a good education. How much more is that going to cost students ? I do not consider that you should start in life with 30k€ debts. Yes let's talk about this law, great subject. First-off, I'd like to remind you that this proposition was in Sarkozy's campaign project for 2007. Project for which the people voted as a whole (53%) so you can't really blame Sarkozy for doing what he promised (in reference to all the public outcries from minorities in universities etc...) Second of all, in actuality, this law is backed by an additional 40 Billion € invested in higher education for France. Regarding the law in itself, the main objective is and has always been a centralization of all universities (and grande écoles) in France as super campus so as to gain international visibility. Personally, I come from one of the best renowned grande école in France and it always pisses me off when I show my resume to a US firm/lab and they ask me what university I come from because they have never heard of it. Look at al the school rankings, and try to find which are the first french school (waaaaay down the list) : universities like Dauphine etc... which have more visibility. Which schools come up first ? All the private funded US schools. Which country is more attractive for young foreign researchers ? We are not yet at a point where we need to worry about 30k€ debts by the way. The law has been promulgated in 2007 and 5 years later, universities in France are still free. You're waving those 30k€ as a scarecrow when in fact this is very far from reality.
Actually public funded US schools are still better than french ones (Berkeley comes to mind). The main problem with the LRU is that it is hypocrit to change university every 10 months while the real question with france education system is the grandes écoles, which are made for rich kids and based on a definition of social hierarchy - the elite - that does not fit with the world we are living in.
Try changing the grandes écoles before reforming universities every two years.
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On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:
Also his quote makes sense to some extend since he is against multiculturalism (which is the reason why terrorism happen btw). Why no terrorism in SK or Japan for example ? Because those countries are isolationists and almost monocultural.
This isn't a fact, it's a delusion close to Zemmour's ramblings.
1) Terrorism isn't a big deal, and is not related to multicultiralism (unless you believe that Al-Andalus, pre-1917 Lebanon or France are ridden with terrorism).
I think that there is a bigger lead regarding government authoritarism and culture (not multiculture). Terrorism is a non-issue. Sorry to all victims, but I'm more likely to die in a bus accident.
2) France has always been a multicultural country. Rennes was as different to Nice than it was to Nottingham. As an example, people from Bretagne who were sent to defend Paris in 1870 felt as if they were sacrificed to defend a foreign city. They wouldn't even speak french as their first language.
People speak of multiculturalism as a plague that should be avoided. Well, this has happenend for millenia before globalization even occurred, and while the current situation accelerates changes and exacerbates differences, it's unstoppable. You could slow it down with a great deal of violence, though.
On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:
edit: not saying that i agree with him by any means lol. Just trying to explain the HUGE difference between the FN and someone like Breivik, something that journalists never bother to explain because they are dishonest and stupid.
They don't explain it because people in general are stupid and dishonest, and don't want to learn the truth or challenge their own opinions (this includes everyone in this thread).
If you want to go deeper in the question, you could take a course in ethnology, sociology, and history, and then maybe you could have an idea of what you're talking about.
Don't criticize the other's pants when you don't even have a pair yourself.
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This post is very well constructed. I don't care about the politics but at least I like the presentation.
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On March 21 2012 03:40 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:50 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:37 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 01:33 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility. This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ... But great we can talk about a real subject for once. What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms past and proposed) ? You want to talk about the LRU law concerning Universities ? We are going to end up like germany and england and will have to pay ten of thousands euros to get a uni education. When every other possibilities are private schools, how do poor people can afford higher education ? It also means that small Universities are going to slowly die because they are less attractive. So people that arent living in big cities or enclaved regions will have to move to get a good education. How much more is that going to cost students ? I do not consider that you should start in life with 30k€ debts. Yes let's talk about this law, great subject. First-off, I'd like to remind you that this proposition was in Sarkozy's campaign project for 2007. Project for which the people voted as a whole (53%) so you can't really blame Sarkozy for doing what he promised (in reference to all the public outcries from minorities in universities etc...) Second of all, in actuality, this law is backed by an additional 40 Billion € invested in higher education for France. Regarding the law in itself, the main objective is and has always been a centralization of all universities (and grande écoles) in France as super campus so as to gain international visibility. Personally, I come from one of the best renowned grande école in France and it always pisses me off when I show my resume to a US firm/lab and they ask me what university I come from because they have never heard of it. Look at al the school rankings, and try to find which are the first french school (waaaaay down the list) : universities like Dauphine etc... which have more visibility. Which schools come up first ? All the private funded US schools. Which country is more attractive for young foreign researchers ? We are not yet at a point where we need to worry about 30k€ debts by the way. The law has been promulgated in 2007 and 5 years later, universities in France are still free. You're waving those 30k€ as a scarecrow when in fact this is very far from reality. Actually public funded US schools are still better than french ones (Berkeley comes to mind). The main problem with the LRU is that it is hypocrit to change university every 10 months while the real question with france education system is the grandes écoles, which are made for rich kids and based on a definition of social hierarchy - the elite - that does not fit with the world we are living in. Try changing the grandes écoles before reforming universities every two years.
I think you need to review your facts.
Regarding the Grandes Ecoles, they are accessible through free school, and the competitive examinations are free and anonymous. Children coming from a poor background also benefit from scholarships which pay for the totality of intership fees for the "classes préparatoires".
I don't know if you've ever tried to apply for a big US university, but they are completely inaccessible to poorer students due not only to the high tuition fees, but also to the fact the selection is made "on file" (with photos) and they only recruit people who have had significantly good scholar results, but also extra scholar activities.
In France, anyone can get into any school regardless of his parent's financial situation (coming from a ZEP (prioritary education zone), I like to think that I am a good example of this.)
If the Grandes Ecoles / university system can be criticized, you sure are doing a piss poor job at it and presenting the wrong arguments.
The LRU gives freedom to university deans to manage their school the way they see fit. This include specializations, private partnerships, recruitment programs etc... And has nothing to do with "changing university every 10 months". If you would clear up how exactly the LRU causes instability in France's higher education school system, I'd be delighted to learn something 
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As someone who knows very little about France, this was a pretty awesome read.
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But then again, 7/10 of the candidates are at the extreme wings of the political board (2 extreme right, 5 extreme left)
Thanks for the "comparateur des programmes", it's a pretty useful tool and I trust that Le Monde will keep it up to date.
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On March 21 2012 04:03 Geiko wrote:
Regarding the Grandes Ecoles, they are accessible through free school, and the competitive examinations are free and anonymous. Children coming from a poor background also benefit from scholarships which pay for the totality of intership fees for the "classes préparatoires".
This is true, I pay 5€ for a year in Uni, while I get 370€ per month from the state.
If I had gone to Sciences Po, I would've had 800€ per month and payed 100€ a year (sadly, I didn't know that at the time).
However, the access to those schools is limited by excellence, and excellence can only be attained through good primary schools. Which is where Sarkozy's plan fail, I actually think that the LRA isn't a bad idea (what follows, a huge campus in the south of Paris, is a very good idea).
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On March 21 2012 02:36 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 01:49 Koorb wrote:On March 21 2012 00:43 colate wrote:
Jean-Marie Le Pen sounds familiar to me. Doesn't he support the ideas of right extremists? I think I recall he 'supported' the ideas of Anders Bering Breivik (22.July massacre in Norway) but not the killing spree itself. You well recall. After the shootings, he stated that, quote, "Norway's naivety and Norwegian society's naivety are worst than the shootings itself", and regarded the shooting as an "accident" (cf. Le Figaro). He is used to this kind of provocation/trash talk, he was actually convicted at least twice of holocaust denial during his political career Breivik is a neo con, he is pro christianity, pro judaism, pro Israel. He is anti muslim and anti leftist ideas. Le Pen is a nationalist and an isolationist. Also all his provocations about the Holocaust makes him very different of Breivik. Doesn't mean he likes Islam and leftist ideas though. But if you look in the grand scheme of things he is not thinking that the world is a struggle between West and East. He was against the war in Iraq or Libya for example. Also his quote makes sense to some extend since he is against multiculturalism (which is the reason why terrorism happen btw). Why no terrorism in SK or Japan for example ? Because those countries are isolationists and almost monocultural. edit: not saying that i agree with him by any means lol. Just trying to explain the HUGE difference between the FN and someone like Breivik, something that journalists never bother to explain because they are dishonest and stupid.
Neo-Cons are leftist Trotskyites...SK and Japan are not isolationist...perhaps you mean Non-interventionist.
Terrorism occurs because of a myriad of reasons. A good start is Robert Papes works. The vast majority is due to being outgunned / outmanned and thus the only viable strategy left is guerilla tactics, and is many times a fight for Independence (Tamils / IRA / Al-Qaeda / etc.).
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On March 21 2012 04:10 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 04:03 Geiko wrote:
Regarding the Grandes Ecoles, they are accessible through free school, and the competitive examinations are free and anonymous. Children coming from a poor background also benefit from scholarships which pay for the totality of intership fees for the "classes préparatoires". This is true, I pay 5€ for a year in Uni, while I get 370€ per month from the state. If I had gone to Sciences Po, I would've had 800€ per month and payed 100€ a year (sadly, I didn't know that at the time). However, the access to those schools is limited by excellence, and excellence can only be attained through good primary schools. Which is where Sarkozy's plan fail, I actually think that the LRA isn't a bad idea (what follows, a huge campus in the south of Paris, is a very good idea).
I agree to some extent that France's secondary education is utter shit. However it has been the case for 20 years now so blaming it all on Sarkozy seems rather short minded.
I think his propositions for 2012 on this matter are reasonable (make teachers have more presence time at school, and raise their salaries), whereas François Hollande's idea to add 60 000 jobs is going to be a huge money sink for future generations (at a time when we are trying to decrease state spendings).
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Of course, but I believe that the right-wing is responsible for this (Chirac and Sarkozy), not Sarkozy alone. However, his plan seems like an incomplete solution, while Hollande show a certain ambition. I don't think he will effectively hire 60 000 new teachers, but I believe he will deal with the problem head front, something that hasn't been done in a long time.
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On March 21 2012 04:03 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 03:40 WhiteDog wrote:On March 21 2012 01:50 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:37 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 01:33 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:29 Kukaracha wrote:On March 21 2012 01:24 Geiko wrote:On March 21 2012 01:10 dafunk wrote:On March 21 2012 00:02 Geiko wrote:That's a smart idea. Mélanchon brought up this idea a couple of years back, then forgot about it. When Sarkozy brought it up again, both him and Hollande inserted it in their program. WHAT ? Mélenchon is talking about it since months every time he's interviewed more than 20 minutes. It's in his program since day 1. Either you're very biased and don't want to see the truth or you just don't know Mélenchon that well. And in both case you should stop talking. Ok people we GET IT (sundance copyright). Mélanchon (or DSK or whoever) came up with this idea first. Now do you guys want to talk about real problems ? I have seriously killer arguments concerning education, limiting public debt, PMEs, etc... that I would LOVE to use, but it seems most of you only try to find the things of the least importance to talk about. Anyone want to have a real political debate here or would you rather we keep the discussion on the demagogic propositions, or Sarkozy's raybans ? Non-exhaustive list of subjects that are more interesting than who came up with which idea first: -Public debt and each candidates approach to limiting it -Education reforms led by Sarkozy, and each candidates proposition -Retirement Reform -Does DSK wear boxers or underwears ? Uh... Sarkozy's educational plan is pretty damn terrible. A huge majority of teachers and parents reject it. But we could talk about it, assuming politicians know more than teachers about their job. Really, if you weren't SO biased, people could talk with you, but you've been so far as posting a UMP video... so much for credibility. This is a political debate. I'm defending my opinion. Calling people out as biased during a political debate is pretty strange ... But great we can talk about a real subject for once. What has Mr Sarkozy done that has upset you concerning education reforms past and proposed) ? You want to talk about the LRU law concerning Universities ? We are going to end up like germany and england and will have to pay ten of thousands euros to get a uni education. When every other possibilities are private schools, how do poor people can afford higher education ? It also means that small Universities are going to slowly die because they are less attractive. So people that arent living in big cities or enclaved regions will have to move to get a good education. How much more is that going to cost students ? I do not consider that you should start in life with 30k€ debts. Yes let's talk about this law, great subject. First-off, I'd like to remind you that this proposition was in Sarkozy's campaign project for 2007. Project for which the people voted as a whole (53%) so you can't really blame Sarkozy for doing what he promised (in reference to all the public outcries from minorities in universities etc...) Second of all, in actuality, this law is backed by an additional 40 Billion € invested in higher education for France. Regarding the law in itself, the main objective is and has always been a centralization of all universities (and grande écoles) in France as super campus so as to gain international visibility. Personally, I come from one of the best renowned grande école in France and it always pisses me off when I show my resume to a US firm/lab and they ask me what university I come from because they have never heard of it. Look at al the school rankings, and try to find which are the first french school (waaaaay down the list) : universities like Dauphine etc... which have more visibility. Which schools come up first ? All the private funded US schools. Which country is more attractive for young foreign researchers ? We are not yet at a point where we need to worry about 30k€ debts by the way. The law has been promulgated in 2007 and 5 years later, universities in France are still free. You're waving those 30k€ as a scarecrow when in fact this is very far from reality. Actually public funded US schools are still better than french ones (Berkeley comes to mind). The main problem with the LRU is that it is hypocrit to change university every 10 months while the real question with france education system is the grandes écoles, which are made for rich kids and based on a definition of social hierarchy - the elite - that does not fit with the world we are living in. Try changing the grandes écoles before reforming universities every two years. I think you need to review your facts. Regarding the Grandes Ecoles, they are accessible through free school, and the competitive examinations are free and anonymous. Children coming from a poor background also benefit from scholarships which pay for the totality of intership fees for the "classes préparatoires".
It's has worked in the past, should work in theory, but anyone in a Grande Ecole knows clearly that in practice it doesn't work anymore. I think it has a lot to do with problem in primary and middle school, but you have to wonder sometimes.
Personnally, I'm happy that the state is paying my studies, but I believe it would benefit other people a lot more (my parents could easily have paid for my studies).
As for the level of the students and professors, well, it's better than some people say, and worse than what some other people believe.
I'm not really sure the system works very well honestly.
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What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
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And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
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Russian Federation112 Posts
On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
I am sure Geiko as the answer to your question: he got the answer to everything (that will be somethong like "what you say is a fucking MARXIST propaganda !!!") x)
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On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
What a constructive post...
-What's so bad about Hadopi ?
-Karachi, Bettancourt-Worth are pending affairs, there are absolutely no proofs of anything against Sarkozy at the moment.
-Khadafi funded campaign is a rumor with only one source: Kadhafi's son. If you believe that well... can't do anything for you.
-Regarding Romani people debate, it would seem that 2/3 frenchmen agree with Sarkozy's politics, you are in the minority here (source: http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2010/08/26/01002-20100826ARTFIG00567-roms-deux-francais-sur-trois-approuvent-le-gouvernement.php )
-The Fiscal Shield was a promised reform from the 2007 campaign. If he hadn't done it you would have said that he doesn't respect his promises. He recently went back on it following the financial crisis though. For information, even Hollande has a Fiscal Shield in his program.
-Purchasing Power has actually gone up in France during the 5 last years (source OCDE stats). This is far from being the case for all the European countries through the crisis.
-Sarkozy respected his engagements with regards to immigration. Immigration is now controlled at about 200 000 persons per year (a figure that was deemed too high by socialists Hollande and Mélanchon).
-Regarding the rise of unemployment, France is one of the countries in Europe with the least increase in unemployment. Figures vary regarding what type of calculation is used, however, in all cases France is among the top 5 countries in Europe in this regard.
-It is debatable whether VAT for restaurants is a good or bad thing. Personally, I find it better than an increase in taxes.
-National Identity debate was a debate that was asked by a majority of Frenchmen in 2007. It has lead to criteria for obtaining the French nationality (language tests, culture minimums etc...).
-Sarkozy increased his salary 172% to put it as high as that of the Prime Minister (18500€ / month) For reference, François Hollande and Segolene Royal's salary are above 30 000€ / month while they have minimal electoral tasks (president of region and president of department).
-EPAD is a non event. Jean Sarkozy was elected by the people and had every legal right to apply for that job. In the end he didn't even present himself so no harm done.
-The Bernard Tapie case was a mistake by the Justice system that cost a successful business man a good number of years of his life. Compensation was decided by a court.
-Khadafi: what humiliation are you talking about ?
-The Lisbone treaty position was decided commonly by UMP and PS (lead by François Hollande). The 2005 "no" by referundum has been analyzed by all to be a "no" to Chirac's government more than a "no" to the European preconstitution text proposed.
-What lies about "paradis fiscaux" ? During Sarkozy's quinquénat, most notably switzerland had to give a lot of ground on their "bank secret" to avoid being classified as a "paradis fiscal".
-"End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles" Care to elaborate ?
-Illegal migrant hunt (especially children) ????
-There were some potentially offensive sentences that were pronounced by one of the ministers indeed.
-Al Assad friendship. Elaborate please.
-Regarding nominations, François Holland has promised much worse as he said he would place only people from his political party at key places of power (prefects, conseil constitutionel, cours des comptes etc...). Sarkozy was the one to make a government composed partly of members of the opposition, he nominated a Socialist man head of the cours des comptes, and pushed DSK's candidacy at the head of the FMI.
The system of the "copinage" is more present for Socialist people to be honest.
What you can remember of Sarkozy's mandat for example:
-The retirement reforms. Holland's program is to do exactly the same as Sarkozy, except raise the age limit to work before 19 instead of 18 for the right to retire at 60 and except maybe 2 or 3 detail points.
-The higher education reform with the LRU that we talked about before
-Reduction in public debt with the 1/2 civil servant politic (that françois hollande will continue to use)
On March 21 2012 06:58 EdouarKiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2012 05:47 VyingsP wrote:
What I will remember these 5 years for :
Hadopi
Karachigate
Romani people stigmatization
2007 Khadafi funded campaign
Bettancourt-Woerth
Fiscal shield
Purchasing power
Quotas for deportations
Rise of unemployment
VAT for restaurants
National identity debate -> and no answer !?! What was the point if it was not to divide the country ?
+172%
EPAD
Bernard Tapie compensation
Humiliation by Khadafi in Paris
Lisbon treaty referundum bypass
Lies about fiscal paradize (which were supposedly dealt with)
End of reimbursment for dozens of drugs
Medical deductibles
Illegal migrant hunt (especially children)
Guéant+Hortefeux controversies over muslims
Al Assad friendship
Nominations of the person in charge of the national radios/televisions
...
...
...
And maybe the worse : I can not look back over those 5 years and say : Whaaa, there, he did something cool, something we can keep because it is going in the right direction. There was no World Music Day, no 5th paid leave week, no universal health coverage (CMU), no removal of death penalty, no PACS, no abortion legalization, no end in the war in Afghanistan... Nothing France could be proud of. Seriously what good can I remember of those 5 wasted years ?
I am sure Geiko as the answer to your question: he got the answer to everything (that will be somethong like "what you say is a fucking MARXIST propaganda !!!") x)
I've never accused anyone of being Marxist, why would you say such a thing ? Maybe you have me confused with some other poster in the thread.
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