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hmm point taken newbsaibot
to a certain extent, you're right
i will say this for my mother's spanking strategy: it was always a last resort. words and reason came first, but there are certain situations when it's called for, when words and reason fail. for example:
your kid is pissed off about something and will not listen to reason. you calmly try to explain. they raise their voice to you. you say, don't raise your voice to me. they say, i can raise my voice to you if i want. you try yelling. they yell back.
how do you react as a parent here? by trying to explain to the child who is screaming at you that no they can't raise their voice to you because you love them blah blah blah?
hell no
you spank their ass
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On October 04 2005 01:57 Liquid`Drone wrote:
which, of course, is even more wrong than hitting him
but you sure as fuck don't need to hit your child to avoid him turning out like that.
I mean kids are kids. Of course you dont hit em for everything bad but I don't think words cut it when they show utter disrespect. Of course how they got to that point is unknown but once they get to an extreme, u gotta react with an extreme to set em straight.
My parents have hit be HARD before but even lookin back now, I think I deserved a few of those.
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exactly. superjongman just hit the nail on the head
the time to spank your kids is when they show utter disrespect.
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On October 04 2005 09:28 lil.sis wrote:
how do you react as a parent here? by trying to explain to the child who is screaming at you that no they can't raise their voice to you because you love them blah blah blah?
. LoL. Well this is why i believe in a two parent home, or at least one with a male. If this happened to me as a parent, i would stop the yelling because i would see it as pointless, fighting fire with fire, and i would submit them with an arm bar. Ok, i would make them go to their room where they would be grounded, with no tv, games, etc. Probably for 4 hours or so. If it was extreme, like stealing a car, we're talking weeks to months. If youre a mother and this is your 16 year old physically superior son, and he's progressed to this state, it can be hard. This is where the downward spiral begins, because he cant be properly disciplined by you anymore. A man could always put him down in the event it became physical or he was threatening. I mean, im not saying its not tricky. I dunno exactly what i'd do. I'd like to think the situation would never arise. It never did for me as a child, im assuming it didnt for my parents either with their parents. Not everybody does something horrible once in their lifetime.
Kids are like animals, they will shutup and stop if you just ignore them, a very simple form of "discipline" so long as they arent ignored and given free reign to take the car out or go to the mall with friends. You ignore a barking dog, or an annoying cat, and it will eventually give up. (say if you put the kid in his room and he just starts screaming for hours).
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no im not even talking about a physically superior child
i mean your 9 year old son
but how do you make that child go to his room when they're not listening? you grab him by the ear and drag his ass up there
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when you fundametally break down what ive described, like sending a kid to his room, (assuming some attempt at lecturing has been made, either before or after), it's still a negatory assocation in a way. I mean, he doesnt like going to his room, and how he's stuck there, bored and unhappy. A spanking is also a negative reinforcer. The main thing i have against spanking is the hitting thing, i just think its too emotionally damaging/disrupting to do that to your own child, and for them to have it done to them. I'm a guy, im not a crybaby or a pussy, but my girlfriend slapped me once for making dirty jokes at the dinner table. I almost broke into tears, it was just so shocking, i couldnt believe her of all people would do that to me. I've been slammed in the face before by another guy, it just made me mad, not cry. I've definately been physically injured, cut, fall down a hill, etc, im not a cryer. So it wasnt the physical pain, or the act of getting hit that hurt me deeply, it was her doing it.
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On October 04 2005 09:41 lil.sis wrote:
no im not even talking about a physically superior child
i mean your 9 year old son
but how do you make that child go to his room when they're not listening? you grab him by the ear and drag his ass up there Well yes i would grab them.. not by the ear heh, i would lift them appropriately and place them there like an object.
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what's interesting here is that i was raised in a household where spanking was an acceptable form of punishment and i never hit people and always saw it as wrong
why? because i was never hit myself. my mother would never make a closed fist to hit me. nor did she ever touch my face when i was a kid
spankings were always administered to the ass
in fact, to hit someone in another way would have been extremely disrespectful
my girlfriend was chasing me around one day kidding around and i tried to close a door between us to slow her progress, accidentally closing it on her arm
she got really mad and she hit me
i love her a lot and she is very close to me but i told her right then that i never hit her, and i sure as hell don't expect her to think she can hit me, and that if she ever did it again the relationship was over
cured her of that bad habit real quick
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isn't that Rainbow Six 3 ?
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notice what you just described lil.sis. You didnt have to hit your girlfriend to make her stop hitting you. Instead you explained to her the situation, told her how you felt, let her understand, give her a reason why it's wrong, and she stopped. You can do the same thing with children, this is not over their heads.
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that is a completely different situation, between two adults, not between parent and child
that is how you handle situations between equals
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so why dont you think it works with a child? Such a conversation is too advanced for them? Granted it wouldnt be as cut and dry as this, because she is more advanced than a 4 year old, and can draw many more abstract conclusions and feelings from such a brief conversation. But i promise you, with enough talking to, the same message can be sent to a child.
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Sweden1225 Posts
If any of you seriously think "solving" the problem by a beating is a good idea I'm scared... Does that even need explaining?
Obviously something went seriously wrong prior to this event, with that kids upbringing. still, he's young and providing him with the idea that you can use violence to solve situations will probably just fuck him up far more. Simply make clear rules that state what is unacceptable behavior (obviously remove his games etc if he misbehaves) and don't forget to try and appreciate (show it!) every small gesture of good will that he'll show.
If he runs away from home given these new rules I guess it's harder (some would argue it's gone too far already), but you really have to be the boss over your child sometimes. Parents today want to be best friends with their kids and let media raise them. Don't! Instead, act grown up, take responsibility and be "mean" to them by explaining they can't always get their will, but never recide to violence...
Don't you agree or what? I'm often amazed by how messed up some people's ideals are these days...
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that's fine, and i would try explaining things to my four year old before spanking them
but if said something and they shout "NO" at me like some four year olds would, then its time to do some enforcing
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On October 04 2005 09:58 Liquid`Daaman wrote:
If any of you seriously think "solving" the problem by a beating is a good idea I'm scared... Does that even need explaining?
Obviously something went seriously wrong prior to this event, with that kids upbringing. still, he's young and providing him with the idea that you can use violence to solve situations will probably just fuck him up far more. Simply make clear rules that state what is unacceptable behavior (obviously remove his games etc if he misbehaves) and don't forget to try and appreciate (show it!) every small gesture of good will that he'll show.
If he runs away from home given these new rules I guess it's harder (some would argue it's gone too far already), but you really have to be the boss over your child sometimes. Parents today want to be best friends with their kids and let media raise them. Don't! Instead, act grown up, take responsibility and be "mean" to them by explaining they can't always get their will, but never recide to violence...
Don't you agree or what? I'm often amazed by how messed up some people's ideals are these days...
at this point its too late for spanking.
spanking is something that has to be done throughout upbringing.
you can't not spank a child for 9 years then suddenly spank them. that will traumatize.
now this kid has to be dealt with by professionals (boot camp etc)
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I\'m not wading through this thread to answer crap point by point, but I feel like I need to say something. I\'ll reiterate my original stance that not spanking a child disservices him or her. Now I could pull a Drone here and say that the evidence for the parents fault in not spanking their children lies in the fact that the children grow up thinking it\'s alright not to spank their children, but I\'ve decided instead to outline a rational standpoint on the matter here. I also won\'t back my points up with slick, appropriately vague psychological references, which I would take as one of my argument\'s chief virtues.
A reasonable approach to spanking views corporal punishment as a severe but ocassionally necessary way to punish your children. You don\'t spank them for spilling shit; you don\'t spank them for being childish, foolish, or niave; you don\'t even spank them for getting carried away in an activity and accidentally breaking something or hurting someone. You spank kids for outright rebellion. You spank them for deliberate disobedience. No wonder you hippies who wouldn\'t violate your child\'s personal sphere of fuzzy good feelings think spanking is barbaric, you think it\'s supposed to be whipped out for all these minor infractions. It\'s not like parents look for an excuse to hurt their kids; let\'s be honest here.
Secondly, a parent should structure their spanking. It\'s not like they pick up the nearest thing and go to town on their child\'s hapless hide. It\'s something done with a cool head in a reasonable mode, something done for a specific purpose. A parent doesn\'t react to a child\'s rebellion via a spanking, he responds to it.
Thirdly, the child knows why he is being spanked. One accompanies it with an explanation. This is where you get to talk heart-to-heart with your child and make sure he understands where he screwed up. Then he\'s punished for it and life goes on.
Fourthly, spanking stops entirely at the appropriate age, namely adolescence. At this point, the child has outgrown corporal punishment and needs to be corrected in a different way.
I really can\'t grasp how folks have the audacity to universally decry spanking. I can only assume you haven\'t been around kids much, or dealt with mothers much for that matter. I can only assume you have no model by which to understand the wholly beneficial effects of appropriately applied corporal punishment; because, I don\'t understand how you can claim that it screws up a child emotionally. Did I love my father? Yes. Did I fear my father\'s punishments? Yes. Did I resent him in any way? No.
I think if my father had been some nagging, lets-sit-down-and-lecture-you-on-how-to-behave ninny I would have respected him less. As it turns out, he taught me a very important lesson on love and fear and how the two interplay. I feel sorry for folks who have never known how fitting and wholesome it feels to fear a being who loves you unconditionally.
I\'ve personally talked with too many problem children who tell me that their mothers punish them solely by grounding them. I\'ve personally had to deal with too many emotional retards who have dads who don\'t care enough about them to discipline them properly and consistently. I\'ve seen too many kids get sent home from too many camps because they were never taught a proper respect, a proper fear, for authority by attentive, careful applications of corporal punishment.
My familial goals in life consist of loving my wife like no one\'s ever loved anyone before and providing for my children the kind of home atmosphere my parents provided for me, one of warmth, security, and love. The older I get, the more I am stunned by how sacrificial and pure my parent\'s love for me was. I\'d gladly throw some sentimental panegyric out for them in any thread or any coversation I have about growing up. And I think their punishments, so direct and forceful and loving, formed a critical support for me as I matured. Screw all of your psychobabble, fellas; if my wife and I can imitate my mom and dad\'s job of raising me and my siblings half as well as they originally performed it, I\'ll die a happy man.
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i think you're right on with the idea that a child should fear his parent's punishments
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i agree with the incredible hulk guy and other people with similar viewpoints
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Norway28672 Posts
hulkamania, actually im working in a daycare centre for children aged 7 - 10, but thanks for making assumptions.
(and my dad has a phd in children's pedagogics, if you're gonna be mentioning examples that really hold no relevance.)
I'm very well aware of the fact that sometimes children are completely disobedient for the sake of being disobedient. they might frustrate the fucking hell out of you, not denying that either. I'm saying that punishing through hitting teaches them that punishing through hitting is appropriate behaviour. and it's not.
I've (obviously) never been spanked, hell I've never even been grounded. it wasn't necessary, because my parents were capable of making me understand right from wrong without having to resort to that. im not saying that an extremely rare spanking will scar your kid for life, my dad told me that his dad spanked him once, and that was after he had participated (although not actively, rather as a spectator) in the bullying of some jehovas witness kid. he didn't do that again. it didn't make my dad hate his dad or whatever, and that stuff doesn't scar you. but it does not have to be necessary either. violence is just a way of dealing with things when you're too lazy to come up with something better. but there is always something better.
and well
I'm well above 90% certain that I, and the other forumposters who have never been spanked during their upbringing, are among the, if not the, people who are least likely to respond to a negative situation with violence. personally, I think that's a very good thing.
I might also be one of the less obedient people. but personally I think obedience for the sake of obedience is also a bad thing.
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EPT
