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this entire thread is just the pot calling the kettle black, can we just all agree to stop posting in this thread and let it die
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On March 16 2012 05:07 Caller wrote:
this entire thread is just the pot calling the kettle black, can we just all agree to stop posting in this thread and let it die
<3
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On March 16 2012 05:06 ken- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 04:39 Exempt. wrote:
Saddest part is the players have actually convinced themselves that their game is challenging LOL. They'll defend it with every last breathe.
User was warned for this post You can get masters in sc2 doing a simple cheese build. And before you go where is your proof there was many threads on this site in the strat section proving my point. I remember when I played like 6 months ago getting diamond 1v1 doing a 3 or 4 rax all in based off a huge thread on this site where the op took it to gm level.
Actually someone got to GM by doing nothing but Drone Rushes and 6 pools.
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I just checked out OGN's new production for LoL and wow. Extremely high production values, English and Korean casters, big sponsorships, broadcast on cable TV in Korea and internationally over the internet in HD(free?). GOM is so screwed, there's no way they can compete with this. That's what Blizzard gets for thinking they can bully the establishment.
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On March 16 2012 04:25 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 04:23 Blasterion wrote:On March 16 2012 04:14 Zergneedsfood wrote:On March 16 2012 04:14 Blasterion wrote:On March 16 2012 04:06 Zergneedsfood wrote:On March 16 2012 03:59 Cosmology wrote:On March 16 2012 02:58 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 02:51 XiGua wrote:On March 16 2012 02:45 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 01:09 Exempt. wrote:
[quote]
Just as a followup I believe the reason why most people say team games like LoL are less skilled than sc2 is because if one is to be punished less severely on a mistake it slowly discludes the mistake over time. The problem with LoL is exactly that -- it discludes a lot of mistakes into a severely nasty punishment to the team in the end where one team wins a teamfight and ends the game.
That's a huge problem with the game because it emphasizes the skill needed for the singular teamfight and less on everything that leads up to the teamfight. This leads to the game being less dynamic / strategic. With the game being less strategic players can then focus more practice in perfecting a smaller number of mechanical skills in the first place. When the player can then focus more energy into a singular skill at hand they can then reach the supposed skillcap for that mechanical skill and perfect it. At this point we're at a dilemma as to whether or not players can do this as there is no proof or not this is theorteically possible. My proposition is that this is possible for players to perfect the mechanical skills required in LoL and thus hit or enclose the skillcap unlike ever seen before in any other competitive esport seen yet.
That's why I believe LoL in it's current state won't last as a competitive game.
You bring an interesting point about if 10 players hit then skillcap then a 5v5 would never end. I think this will happen to a lesser extent. Games will continuously get longer and longer if something isn't done to fix it because pushing and ending a near even game is too highly difficult for either team to do. As well, when games get longer and longer those mistakes we were talking about before will continuously become less important -- ever much so that the team fight becomes increasingly more important.
I think you are completely correct about balance, it's a pretty easy fix to design the game to be better. In order to make the game better I feel they need to rebalance the game in a way where the end team fight plays a slightly less importance in the grand scheme of things. In which case LoL certainly would be a more competitive game in my eyes.
One area in which I think they could do this is revamping their summoner spell system, the game would be much more dynamic and strategic if it were possible for players to change their summoner spells during the game. This would further increase the skillcap by adding larger strategic depth to the game. The means by which they do this whether by cooldowns, gold use, whatever, doesn't matter.
TL;DR: I simply don't understand why people are so vehemently against my opinions when their were thousands upon thousands of SC2 related threads stating that starcraft was designed wrong and was a bad game. Well it was, and blizzard redesigned and balanced the game until shit like 4 gate weren't so predominant. LoL NEEDS to go through this same phase in design change or it flat out won't deliver as a good competitive game.
Everything leading up to teamfights is infinitely more important than the teamfight itself. If you're jungler does his job properly and secures dragons/puts two lanes behind you already have the game won before any real teamfight occurs. And two, Starcraft 2 is a badly designed game and the whole nation of Korea recognizes it. The only reason why it stays alive in the West is because of some unknown elitist reasoning that people keep thinking it is a great game. The game is dying rapidly, and without your casual fan base your game flat out loses sponsors. Without sponsors, your game dies, period. It's not dying rapidly... I could say that the Starcraft 2 player base is getting smaller and smaller but the whole scene is not going to be gone as fast as you say. Casual fan base is everything when it comes to sponsors. Without sponsors, your competitive gaming community will die. Period. Warcraft 3 suffered the same fate, but much slower due to the fact that the player base was sustained for quite sometime due to DotA and various other factors (such as it actually being a legitimately fun team game unlike SC2). If you look at peak numbers for the NA/Korean servers you'll find that it's going down rapidly. People are moving on because the game simply cannot hold their attention, because it's not good enough of a game. You gota be a troll lol, Starcraft 2 isn't that bad, you sound so stupid for calling it out like that, I think you're probably someone who is just bitter that they couldn't get any better at Starcraft 2 and instead switched to LoL. Please put 2 in front of Starcraft. I don't like it when I can get amazing games mixed up with not so good ones. Thanks. On March 16 2012 04:03 Cosmology wrote:
Also, you guys are pretending like positioning in LoL is hard :S I play LoL at a decent level and that stuff is easy as hell even i solo queue, I can't imagine the simplicity when everyone is co-ordianted and talking. Yeah dude. Go be pro now. Too easy. But if you don't want to be pro in LoL because you don't like it, that's fine. There's another game very similar to it where positioning is just as easy. Shogi! Mahjong! Oh wait.... bitches don't know about mah 9 Gate timing attack ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LBq5r.jpg) (The above hand is known as a pure 9 gates) (All pins) Oh snaps. That looks intense!
Fuck that shit. Real men play CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!!!!
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/wrOas.jpg)
You try playing a children's card game on a motorcycle. THAT TAKES SKILLZ!
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While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients.
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On March 16 2012 05:14 RyzeDotA wrote:
While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients.
It'll be a pretty big battle between League and DotA 2 in terms of E-Sports. We'll see who wins ;o
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On March 16 2012 05:14 RyzeDotA wrote:
While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients.
Can't wait ;D
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On March 16 2012 04:01 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 03:38 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 03:29 Xalorian wrote:On March 16 2012 02:58 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 02:51 XiGua wrote:On March 16 2012 02:45 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 01:09 Exempt. wrote:On March 16 2012 00:46 Rorance wrote:On March 16 2012 00:06 Exempt. wrote:On March 15 2012 23:53 Rorance wrote:
[quote]
Wow...
There is nothing to argue about, so why argue? You haven't said one constructive thing at all this entire thread.
I posted this with the expectation that people would find this as good news, that e-sports are growing outside of just SC2. We aren't losing anything, nobody is... Well some people are freaking out over this like somebody is ruining your birthday party by having more people over to their house with a bigger cake 10 blocks away.
I've seen amazing discussions over the years on this site, actually arguing back and forth and not fighting like a bunch of spoiled brats over something that has no effect on them. I'm just going to ask a mod to lock this thread if people keep trying to smear other games and don't have any reasoning besides "LOL DOESN'T MAKE YOU HIT BUTTONS AS FAST SO IT MUST BE EASIER!!" Well because it's just your opinion whether or not there is something to argue about. If you don't feel it's worth arguing then the obvious decision is to not engage in argument. You flinging shit because some people want to argue doesn't make you any better than anyone else. The constructive argument I placed was that I felt LoL was bad for esports as it didn't support competition that would last many years to come for reasons such as lack of differentiating skill and what not. My conclusive thesis was that because of this lack of competition LoL would just hurt esports in the long run. Not help it. The problem is people didn't go with retorting my opinion. They shit talked it. All that needed to be done with this argument was someone to post what juicyfruit said recently in his opinions as to why lol is worth competition and thus esports by talking about: - How many competitors there are - Potential for skill improvement (i.e. skill cap) - Balance if someone simply, academically brang those points up to disprove my opinions on lol as a competitive game I would of left the discussion more open-minded. But no, that didn't happen, because people can't think in a logic fashion, they get too clouded by their emotions because of the fact that I was arguing something that they certainly didn't believe in. Here's one to hoping public school systems slowly improve / college is stressed more in society so that some day a larger portion of the human race can participate in a scholarly debate that so many simply aren't prepared to do now. Okay, understood. I'm going to try and parallel E-Sports with Sports in order to draw a comparison most people can grasp, I hope. You can look at any sport that makes people compete on an individual level such as table tennis or golf and argue that they require more individual skill to succeed in. Which is of course correct, but that's only because if you make a mistake it's a lot more unforgiving then if you make a mistake in a team oriented sport like Hockey or Football (CFL/NFL variety). What hurts my head is when people say team games require less or no skill because they aren't punished nearly as hard for making individual mistakes. If a table tennis player over shoots and misses the table, bam the opponent is up a point, if you are a quarterback and throw an interception you at least have the rest of your team on the field to stop an immediate touchdown and the defense to recover the ball. Taking away individual accountability doesn't make any team based sport require less skill on an individual level, they aren't mutually exclusive. We wouldn't have individuals on teams like Wayne Gretzky or Peyton Manning getting held up on people's shoulders and being heralded as masters of their craft if individual skill didn't matter. Of course no sport really has a skill cap, it would lead to a very uninteresting viewing experience. If two people hit the skill cap in table tennis i'm sure it would be fun to watch for the first 3 minutes but after that when you realize no player is going to drop the ball so to speak it removes any aspect of suspense. I think this holds true for e-sports as well, if you had even 10 people hit the skill cap in LoL and pitted them in a 5vs5 the game would simply never end. People would realize the game isn't a viable competitive medium and move on, or Riot would fix it somehow, maybe make people maintain 300+ APM or get booted as so many people hold that number as a measure of skill these days. Balance is also a relatively easy thing to address, even in a game with as many diverse pieces as LoL has. Day[9] summed balance up really well on an episode of the Daily or SotG, I can't quite remember. To paraphrase he said something along the lines of if something is overpowered then every single person would simply use that race/class/strategy/character. That of course would mean the game would get very stale very quick and not be a viable competitive medium. Of course the volatility of LoL simply means this won't happen, if one combination of characters seems to be unbeatable somebody will find a crack in that and exploit it with another combination of characters. It's like mixing boxing, rock paper scissors and chess into a sport between two opponents who have 5 hands that act on their own but are guided by one person. Let me break that down a bit and explain... The boxing aspect comes from the fact you are trying to beat your opponent in a set number of rounds either by knocking him out or through a much longer game plan and simply out playing him. Rock paper scissors covers the randomness that is inherent in every game and sport; you, you're team and your opponents can't be predicted and individuals will have advantages over others but generally balance over all as a team. Chess simply because each person has a set amount of pieces to play with, 5 in the case of LoL with their active skills (You can go into items but shhhh), knowing what to use and when and being able to make those decisions in a split second repeatedly and accurately over a 20-30 minute game is exhausting. Doing all that is hard enough, but doing it with 4 other people while trying to act as a coherent whole is a difficult task. I agree with you when you say knowledge gives you the tools you need to improve and be skillful. You don't see many pro golfers using a driver on the green >.<' Having the knowledge to know what tools to use and when is what really separates E-Sports from sports in my opinion. Just as a followup I believe the reason why most people say team games like LoL are less skilled than sc2 is because if one is to be punished less severely on a mistake it slowly discludes the mistake over time. The problem with LoL is exactly that -- it discludes a lot of mistakes into a severely nasty punishment to the team in the end where one team wins a teamfight and ends the game. That's a huge problem with the game because it emphasizes the skill needed for the singular teamfight and less on everything that leads up to the teamfight. This leads to the game being less dynamic / strategic. With the game being less strategic players can then focus more practice in perfecting a smaller number of mechanical skills in the first place. When the player can then focus more energy into a singular skill at hand they can then reach the supposed skillcap for that mechanical skill and perfect it. At this point we're at a dilemma as to whether or not players can do this as there is no proof or not this is theorteically possible. My proposition is that this is possible for players to perfect the mechanical skills required in LoL and thus hit or enclose the skillcap unlike ever seen before in any other competitive esport seen yet. That's why I believe LoL in it's current state won't last as a competitive game. You bring an interesting point about if 10 players hit then skillcap then a 5v5 would never end. I think this will happen to a lesser extent. Games will continuously get longer and longer if something isn't done to fix it because pushing and ending a near even game is too highly difficult for either team to do. As well, when games get longer and longer those mistakes we were talking about before will continuously become less important -- ever much so that the team fight becomes increasingly more important. I think you are completely correct about balance, it's a pretty easy fix to design the game to be better. In order to make the game better I feel they need to rebalance the game in a way where the end team fight plays a slightly less importance in the grand scheme of things. In which case LoL certainly would be a more competitive game in my eyes. One area in which I think they could do this is revamping their summoner spell system, the game would be much more dynamic and strategic if it were possible for players to change their summoner spells during the game. This would further increase the skillcap by adding larger strategic depth to the game. The means by which they do this whether by cooldowns, gold use, whatever, doesn't matter. TL;DR: I simply don't understand why people are so vehemently against my opinions when their were thousands upon thousands of SC2 related threads stating that starcraft was designed wrong and was a bad game. Well it was, and blizzard redesigned and balanced the game until shit like 4 gate weren't so predominant. LoL NEEDS to go through this same phase in design change or it flat out won't deliver as a good competitive game. Everything leading up to teamfights is infinitely more important than the teamfight itself. If you're jungler does his job properly and secures dragons/puts two lanes behind you already have the game won before any real teamfight occurs. And two, Starcraft 2 is a badly designed game and the whole nation of Korea recognizes it. The only reason why it stays alive in the West is because of some unknown elitist reasoning that people keep thinking it is a great game. The game is dying rapidly, and without your casual fan base your game flat out loses sponsors. Without sponsors, your game dies, period. It's not dying rapidly... I could say that the Starcraft 2 player base is getting smaller and smaller but the whole scene is not going to be gone as fast as you say. Casual fan base is everything when it comes to sponsors. Without sponsors, your competitive gaming community will die. Period. Warcraft 3 suffered the same fate, but much slower due to the fact that the player base was sustained for quite sometime due to DotA and various other factors (such as it actually being a legitimately fun team game unlike SC2). If you look at peak numbers for the NA/Korean servers you'll find that it's going down rapidly. People are moving on because the game simply cannot hold their attention, because it's not good enough of a game. LOL. Casual fan base is everything to sponsors? WHAT? That's not fucking even remotely true. Viewers is everything for sponsors. They don't care about ANYTHING else. And, viewers wise, SC2 is GROWING. The fact that LoL viewers numbers is growing faster doesn't change a shit for the SC2 community in the end. SC2 is still growing and will still grow. It's not even in competition against LoL. It's not even the same type of game. People shitting and saying that SC2 is shrinking and dieing are even more retarded that those that are blindly shitting on the LoL success. SC2 is doing absolutly great, the fact that LoL pull more viewers change nothing to it. Actually, the fact that the SC2 player base is shrinking while the viewer base is growing is quite awesome and pretty much prove the fact that SC2 eSports scene is solid. Even when people stop playing it, they still watch it. And guess who sponsors are gonna fork out money to? The game with more viewers. Which game has more viewers? The game that is viewed as more "casual" and "friendly." Guess what that game is. Hint : It's not Starcraft 2. SC2's viewer numbers are growing marginally. SC2's player base is dying rapidly off. Your viewer numbers in a year or two will rapidly drop off, just like how the viewer numbers for Counter-Strike rapidly fell off except for a few thousand hardcore players. It's the same pattern that WC3 followed also, and you'd be real blind to believe that SC2 is going to sustain itself as an E-Sport for very long considering how bad the player population is right now. And the fact that League pulls in more viewers is a big thing. Right now you have a very limited amount of companies willing to sponsor events/teams/etc. To believe otherwise would be asinine. Those companies want to sponsor something that will get them the most coverage. Starcraft 2 wasn't doing it for the Koreans, so they switched to League because it is a far more popular game. You are really full of shit, seriously. SC2 team actually have more sponsors than LoL teams. Viewers number don't "grow" marginaly. Just look at any MLG events or Dreamhack, or Day9 stream, or IPL TAC. Yes, LoL have more viewers... why in the fucking hell should that imply that SC2 will drop or is less successful than it was? LoL success have nothing to do with SC2 success, and LoL is obviously not leeching SC2 viewers, since the viewers count is still growing despite the big rise in LoL viewers. I'm not a fan of LoL, but I hope that it will stay popular and big for a long time, since it's good for the community money-wise and viewers-wise. I don't see how it's actually bad for SC2, at all. Actually, it will probably just push Blizzard to kick their own ass and do something about it, to share a bigger part of the cake. And that's just good for us, SC2 viewers and players. And, no, Korea didn't switched to LoL form SC2, that's a blatant lie. Actually, the SC2 community in Korea is intact if not bigger than it was. Most people switching for something are not switching from SC2, but from BW. SC2 is not having the success that it had with BW in Korea, but the scene still lived there, and as showed by the last GSL final, is actually growing, without the help of OGN or OSL. Less success in Korea but a fucking big success story here, in the west. It's a fair trade for us, I would say and i'm perfectly fine with it. You are just a retarded and a blind hater that don't know shit about the SC2 scene, the same way that those shitthing on LoL are haters. So please, now, just leave this whole website and never look back : no one wants retarded haters here. Go and enjoy your LoL, learn to have fun and relax, instead of vigorously shitting on everything that is not your game. I love SC2 and I enjoy SC2. I love KoF13 and follow KoF13, even tho it doesn't have that big of a success and I don't need to bitch on every other fighter games just to validate my own opinion. You can love anything you want and follow anything you want, that's all fine. A human actually mentally stable would not need to shit on a whole community just to feel better. Don't worry for us, the SC2 scene is doing fine and will still continue to do fine for a long time. In the end, as long as I can PLAY the game I love, as long as I can follow the casters I love and the players I love, playing the game that I love, I don't fucking need it to be the best ESPORT or the MOST POPULAR GAME. I don't need validation of the mass to feel better, nor should you. If LoL is your think, that's really nice and you should be happy about the success that it have... But I don't fucking see how it's remotely linked to the SC2 scene.
this . underlining THE GAME I LOVE !! <3 SC !!
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On March 16 2012 05:14 RyzeDotA wrote:
While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients.
The problem with Dota's playerbase is that it is heavily concentrated in China.
Unfortunately, LoL is eating up Dota's fanbase in China as well.
Tencent is easily the king of marketing in China.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:14 RyzeDotA wrote:
While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients.
While I'm with you, I will point out that nobody has released the Chinese stream numbers for League tournaments. I'd expect them to dwarf Western stream numbers as well.
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On March 16 2012 05:17 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 05:14 RyzeDotA wrote:
While you discuss the past, I'll focus on the future. A mod with 300k+ viewers on loser bracket games and a beta with 1400 viewers a few months ago and now up to 50k+ on tournament games. The game with the biggest playerbase, a decade selfsustained tournament history.
Welcome to Defense of the Ancients. While I'm with you, I will point out that nobody has released the Chinese stream numbers for League tournaments. I'd expect them to dwarf Western stream numbers as well.
I believe the Chinese IEM stream crashed during the Ehome game (probably 4-5th rated Chinese team).
I can't imagine how many viewers will tune in when the top teams actually make it to western tournaments.
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Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well.
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On March 16 2012 05:11 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 04:25 Zergneedsfood wrote:On March 16 2012 04:23 Blasterion wrote:On March 16 2012 04:14 Zergneedsfood wrote:On March 16 2012 04:14 Blasterion wrote:On March 16 2012 04:06 Zergneedsfood wrote:On March 16 2012 03:59 Cosmology wrote:On March 16 2012 02:58 superstartran wrote:On March 16 2012 02:51 XiGua wrote:On March 16 2012 02:45 superstartran wrote:
[quote]
Everything leading up to teamfights is infinitely more important than the teamfight itself. If you're jungler does his job properly and secures dragons/puts two lanes behind you already have the game won before any real teamfight occurs.
And two, Starcraft 2 is a badly designed game and the whole nation of Korea recognizes it. The only reason why it stays alive in the West is because of some unknown elitist reasoning that people keep thinking it is a great game. The game is dying rapidly, and without your casual fan base your game flat out loses sponsors. Without sponsors, your game dies, period. It's not dying rapidly... I could say that the Starcraft 2 player base is getting smaller and smaller but the whole scene is not going to be gone as fast as you say. Casual fan base is everything when it comes to sponsors. Without sponsors, your competitive gaming community will die. Period. Warcraft 3 suffered the same fate, but much slower due to the fact that the player base was sustained for quite sometime due to DotA and various other factors (such as it actually being a legitimately fun team game unlike SC2). If you look at peak numbers for the NA/Korean servers you'll find that it's going down rapidly. People are moving on because the game simply cannot hold their attention, because it's not good enough of a game. You gota be a troll lol, Starcraft 2 isn't that bad, you sound so stupid for calling it out like that, I think you're probably someone who is just bitter that they couldn't get any better at Starcraft 2 and instead switched to LoL. Please put 2 in front of Starcraft. I don't like it when I can get amazing games mixed up with not so good ones. Thanks. On March 16 2012 04:03 Cosmology wrote:
Also, you guys are pretending like positioning in LoL is hard :S I play LoL at a decent level and that stuff is easy as hell even i solo queue, I can't imagine the simplicity when everyone is co-ordianted and talking. Yeah dude. Go be pro now. Too easy. But if you don't want to be pro in LoL because you don't like it, that's fine. There's another game very similar to it where positioning is just as easy. Shogi! Mahjong! Oh wait.... bitches don't know about mah 9 Gate timing attack (The above hand is known as a pure 9 gates) (All pins) Oh snaps. That looks intense! Fuck that shit. Real men play CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!!!! You try playing a children's card game on a motorcycle. THAT TAKES SKILLZ!
The next e-sport. Holy cow that looks awesome.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:22 Azarkon wrote:
Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well.
There is Chinese server but you'll see a number of Chinese pro players (Ehome's PDD and Max come to mind) play on NA because the skill level is much higher on NA than CN atm. But it's really a matter of preference. I haven't see iG players back on NA for months and same goes for Korean players since KR servers opened.
I would say that the international public has still yet to really see the CN and KR teams in action. Just last IEM, two CN teams got really hampered by travel visas. That seems to be the biggest issue (getting teams to the event after they qualify), every single damn time, when it comes to international LANs.
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On March 16 2012 05:22 Azarkon wrote:
Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well.
Dota2 will have LAN so it'll support their strong base of players in Asia like from China, Singapore and the Pinoys. LoL doesn't have LAN? And it already has Chinese servers not very popular since they don't have many keys(from what I've heard)/still play good ol' DotA.
And for those DotA/2 players who are sad about LoL being nr.1 in Korea shouldn't be, DotA hasn't been very popular over there, they've played similar games but not much DotA as far as I know so meh, Blizzard fucked up though imo giving exclusive rights to 1 company and no LAN etc etc...
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On March 16 2012 05:22 Azarkon wrote:
Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well.
The reason chinese teams play on NA is because there is better competition there. The Chinese server is fairly new, so the level of competition isnt as high quite yet. Chinese used to have to play on NA before the server opened anyway, so it isnt as though it is something new and different.
And a Chinese team won the IEM that took place in China. We have yet to actually see a top chinese team go abroad yet, because of Visa issues. Plus the chinese team that DID attend IEM hannover featured a player who had recently broken his wrist.
On March 16 2012 05:29 Kentakky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 05:22 Azarkon wrote:
Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well. Dota2 will have LAN so it'll support their strong base of players in Asia like from China, Singapore and the Pinoys. LoL doesn't have LAN? And it already has Chinese servers not very popular since they don't have many keys(from what I've heard)/still play good ol' DotA. And for those DotA/2 players who are sad about LoL being nr.1 in Korea shouldn't be, DotA hasn't been very popular over there, they've played similar games but not much DotA as far as I know so meh, Blizzard fucked up though imo giving exclusive rights to 1 company and no LAN etc etc...
Not sure where you heard the release wanst popular. Everything I had heard pointed to the release being a massive success and tremendously popular in china.
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On March 16 2012 05:28 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 05:22 Azarkon wrote:
Riot's partnership with Tencent is strategic but AFAIK Chinese LoL pro teams are compelled to play on the NA servers, which says to me that there's something wrong there that Valve can improve upon.
Also, Chinese teams aren't doing too well in LoL and I think that has an effect on the success of the game as an eSport in China as well. There is Chinese server but you'll see a number of Chinese pro players (Ehome's PDD and Max come to mind) play on NA because the skill level is much higher on NA than CN atm. But it's really a matter of preference. I haven't see iG players back on NA for months and same goes for Korean players since KR servers opened. I would say that the international public has still yet to really see the CN and KR teams in action. Just last IEM, two CN teams got really hampered by travel visas. That seems to be the biggest issue (getting teams to the event after they qualify), every single damn time, when it comes to international LANs.
If the CN teams practice anything like they do in DotA they should stomp the competition.
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Why wouldn't they practice like they did in Dota? It's the same organizations behind the teams - ie WE, Ehome, and iG.
But the practice environment is very different if the Chinese server sucks compared to the NA server. In Dota it was the opposite.
Server environment is vital - the best scene is on the best server, and in LoL right now that is NA/EU. In SC 2, it's KR.
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Well, the chinese WE lol team has played in the premier league, which is a dota tournament. Doesn't seems that lol is that big there.
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EPT
