EPTOn March 16 2012 07:16 blubbdavid wrote:
Has Milkis told you this?
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 06:41 Xalorian wrote:
By the look of it, I think that you have skipped my other post entirely. Stop rambling the same shit again, you have absolutly no way to predict that SC2 will die off OR that SC2 is actually dieing off, and I have actually many way to prove you the opposite.
And, again, nice thing for LoL that it is successful, but seriously, there is NO link between those two games and there is NO link between the LoL viewerbase and the SC2 viewerbase. A moba will not overtake a RTS, that fucking makes no senses.
I will quote myself, because i'm sure that you are too lazy to go 2 page back. You are still full of shit for rambling about how SC2 will die off, so all my arguments are up to date with your continual retarded facts. I'm not a SC2 fanboys, you are a SC2 haters, hating on an entire community for the lolz.
I REPEAT, SC2 is doing fine. If LoL is doing better, good thing for them, still doesn't change a shit to the fact that SC2 is doing fine and that it will continue to do so. And SC2 is still played by tons and tons of peoples, that's way enough to be successful as a spectator eSports, even if LoL have more than that.
On March 16 2012 05:01 superstartran wrote:
SC2's population is dying rapidly off. That is a fact. It's been stated on here multiple times that the player population on various servers has massively dropped since the release of the game. I believe that Sc2's competitive scene won't last very long BECAUSE of said population drop. Sponsors aren't going to stick around when the player population is too low, it's a proven trend from games like CS and WC3.
That fact is already being proven in the Korean scene right now. SC2 is a dying game over there, and not many people play it. League is getting more company support because it is so popular among the general population. It's simple facts.
And two, I never said League was superior in the competitive aspect, I said that it will always have more players because it has social interaction among people unlike Starcraft 2. The fact that it continues to grow in population has much more to do with the fact that the game is actually decent.
But keep it up SC2 fanboy.
Which is really the point. League of Legends continues to grow because it attracts so many new players to its game. However, it is still a decent enough game competitively that a competitive scene can grow out of it. You cannot possibly expect your game to grow and sustain without a casual playerbase; there's a reason why SC2 is failing so hard in Korea, and that's because people don't play it.
I understand the Starcraft 2 community is upset, but it is the way it is. League of Legends will likely overtake SC2 as the flagship E-Sport game in the not so distant future simply due to sheer money and manpower. It's already overtaken SC2 in Korea (where many people thought it would be invincible, which is obviously not the case). In the West, SC2 still remains the flagship game, but not for long IMO simply due to the fact that companies will see there's not enough viewers compared to League, and will eventually jump ship to the broader fanbase.
On March 16 2012 04:57 Xalorian wrote:
But you never stopped stating that SC2 was dieing super fast, that in a year or two it would be irrelevant and dead and that LoL was super competitive because of is "team aspect" and had the better end of the stick in every way and that it is all deserved.
Not claiming that one game is better than the other, right?
Don't expect people to treat you nicely, when you are being a douche at every occasions against the whole SC2 community, on TL.
On March 16 2012 04:54 superstartran wrote:
I'm not the one claiming that any game is better than the other. I'm just merely stating that League isn't as bad as people think it is, otherwise there wouldn't be such as massive population. It's not exactly the greatest competitive game IMO, but that's my own opinion. I'm not here making any claims at all without any kind of evidence that Starcraft 2 is the superior game at all like you are, or making broadbased claims that League is bad.
You haven't pointed out any good examples, haven't posted any evidence, and won't even show your standing in each game (which would add to your credibility if you were any good in both of them). It's pretty obvious that you've been caught in tons of argumentative holes by various posters and you simply just start with ad hominen / changing your argument in order to get out of said argumentative holes.
On March 16 2012 04:43 Exempt. wrote:
You first buddy. Willing to bet I'm over twice as good as you at both.
On March 16 2012 04:40 superstartran wrote:
Please link me to your League and Starcraft 2 profiles. I'm willing to bet you aren't anywhere good enough to make any kind of judgement on either game.
On March 16 2012 04:39 Exempt. wrote:
Saddest part is the players have actually convinced themselves that their game is challenging LOL. They'll defend it with every last breathe.
Saddest part is the players have actually convinced themselves that their game is challenging LOL. They'll defend it with every last breathe.
Please link me to your League and Starcraft 2 profiles. I'm willing to bet you aren't anywhere good enough to make any kind of judgement on either game.
You first buddy. Willing to bet I'm over twice as good as you at both.
I'm not the one claiming that any game is better than the other. I'm just merely stating that League isn't as bad as people think it is, otherwise there wouldn't be such as massive population. It's not exactly the greatest competitive game IMO, but that's my own opinion. I'm not here making any claims at all without any kind of evidence that Starcraft 2 is the superior game at all like you are, or making broadbased claims that League is bad.
You haven't pointed out any good examples, haven't posted any evidence, and won't even show your standing in each game (which would add to your credibility if you were any good in both of them). It's pretty obvious that you've been caught in tons of argumentative holes by various posters and you simply just start with ad hominen / changing your argument in order to get out of said argumentative holes.
But you never stopped stating that SC2 was dieing super fast, that in a year or two it would be irrelevant and dead and that LoL was super competitive because of is "team aspect" and had the better end of the stick in every way and that it is all deserved.
Not claiming that one game is better than the other, right?
Don't expect people to treat you nicely, when you are being a douche at every occasions against the whole SC2 community, on TL.
SC2's population is dying rapidly off. That is a fact. It's been stated on here multiple times that the player population on various servers has massively dropped since the release of the game. I believe that Sc2's competitive scene won't last very long BECAUSE of said population drop. Sponsors aren't going to stick around when the player population is too low, it's a proven trend from games like CS and WC3.
That fact is already being proven in the Korean scene right now. SC2 is a dying game over there, and not many people play it. League is getting more company support because it is so popular among the general population. It's simple facts.
And two, I never said League was superior in the competitive aspect, I said that it will always have more players because it has social interaction among people unlike Starcraft 2. The fact that it continues to grow in population has much more to do with the fact that the game is actually decent.
But keep it up SC2 fanboy.
On March 16 2012 04:56 GeorgeForeman wrote:
I'm completely baffled by these reactions.
People are really opining the fact that a game exists that can attract broad swaths of casual fans to watch streams/tournaments? "Casuals" are what you need for a game to thrive and become a broader thing. Personally, I'd rather not have esports remain a tiny, niche market. I'd like to see major tournaments with high production values and top-level talent become a consistent, normal thing. I'd like to costs of subscriptions to come down. Etc. etc. etc. The way this stuff happens is you get "casuals" involved.
As for the alleged low skill ceiling in LoL (which makes no sense in comparisson to an RTS and I can't comment on relative to something like DOTA2), you could just as easily argue that there's a low ceiling for popular games like American football or whatever, and that often times the deciding factor is teamwork. That doesn't and shouldn't disqualify a game from being entertaining or compelling to watch.
I'm completely baffled by these reactions.
People are really opining the fact that a game exists that can attract broad swaths of casual fans to watch streams/tournaments? "Casuals" are what you need for a game to thrive and become a broader thing. Personally, I'd rather not have esports remain a tiny, niche market. I'd like to see major tournaments with high production values and top-level talent become a consistent, normal thing. I'd like to costs of subscriptions to come down. Etc. etc. etc. The way this stuff happens is you get "casuals" involved.
As for the alleged low skill ceiling in LoL (which makes no sense in comparisson to an RTS and I can't comment on relative to something like DOTA2), you could just as easily argue that there's a low ceiling for popular games like American football or whatever, and that often times the deciding factor is teamwork. That doesn't and shouldn't disqualify a game from being entertaining or compelling to watch.
Which is really the point. League of Legends continues to grow because it attracts so many new players to its game. However, it is still a decent enough game competitively that a competitive scene can grow out of it. You cannot possibly expect your game to grow and sustain without a casual playerbase; there's a reason why SC2 is failing so hard in Korea, and that's because people don't play it.
I understand the Starcraft 2 community is upset, but it is the way it is. League of Legends will likely overtake SC2 as the flagship E-Sport game in the not so distant future simply due to sheer money and manpower. It's already overtaken SC2 in Korea (where many people thought it would be invincible, which is obviously not the case). In the West, SC2 still remains the flagship game, but not for long IMO simply due to the fact that companies will see there's not enough viewers compared to League, and will eventually jump ship to the broader fanbase.
By the look of it, I think that you have skipped my other post entirely. Stop rambling the same shit again, you have absolutly no way to predict that SC2 will die off OR that SC2 is actually dieing off, and I have actually many way to prove you the opposite.
And, again, nice thing for LoL that it is successful, but seriously, there is NO link between those two games and there is NO link between the LoL viewerbase and the SC2 viewerbase. A moba will not overtake a RTS, that fucking makes no senses.
I will quote myself, because i'm sure that you are too lazy to go 2 page back. You are still full of shit for rambling about how SC2 will die off, so all my arguments are up to date with your continual retarded facts. I'm not a SC2 fanboys, you are a SC2 haters, hating on an entire community for the lolz.
On March 16 2012 04:01 Xalorian wrote:
You are really full of shit, seriously.
SC2 team actually have more sponsors than LoL teams. Viewers number don't "grow" marginaly. Just look at any MLG events or Dreamhack, or Day9 stream, or IPL TAC. Yes, LoL have more viewers... why in the fucking hell should that imply that SC2 will drop or is less successful than it was? LoL success have nothing to do with SC2 success, and LoL is obviously not leeching SC2 viewers, since the viewers count is still growing despite the big rise in LoL viewers.
I'm not a fan of LoL, but I hope that it will stay popular and big for a long time, since it's good for the community money-wise and viewers-wise. I don't see how it's actually bad for SC2, at all. Actually, it will probably just push Blizzard to kick their own ass and do something about it, to share a bigger part of the cake. And that's just good for us, SC2 viewers and players.
And, no, Korea didn't switched to LoL form SC2, that's a blatant lie. Actually, the SC2 community in Korea is intact if not bigger than it was. Most people switching for something are not switching from SC2, but from BW. SC2 is not having the success that it had with BW in Korea, but the scene still lived there, and as showed by the last GSL final, is actually growing, without the help of OGN or OSL. Less success in Korea but a fucking big success story here, in the west. It's a fair trade for us, I would say and i'm perfectly fine with it.
You are just a retarded and a blind hater that don't know shit about the SC2 scene, the same way that those shitthing on LoL are haters. So please, now, just leave this whole website and never look back : no one wants retarded haters here. Go and enjoy your LoL, learn to have fun and relax, instead of vigorously shitting on everything that is not your game. I love SC2 and I enjoy SC2. I love KoF13 and follow KoF13, even tho it doesn't have that big of a success and I don't need to bitch on every other fighter games just to validate my own opinion. You can love anything you want and follow anything you want, that's all fine. A human actually mentally stable would not need to shit on a whole community just to feel better.
Don't worry for us, the SC2 scene is doing fine and will still continue to do fine for a long time. In the end, as long as I can PLAY the game I love, as long as I can follow the casters I love and the players I love, playing the game that I love, I don't fucking need it to be the best ESPORT or the MOST POPULAR GAME. I don't need validation of the mass to feel better, nor should you. If LoL is your think, that's really nice and you should be happy about the success that it have... But I don't fucking see how it's remotely linked to the SC2 scene.
On March 16 2012 03:38 superstartran wrote:
And guess who sponsors are gonna fork out money to? The game with more viewers. Which game has more viewers? The game that is viewed as more "casual" and "friendly." Guess what that game is. Hint : It's not Starcraft 2.
SC2's viewer numbers are growing marginally. SC2's player base is dying rapidly off. Your viewer numbers in a year or two will rapidly drop off, just like how the viewer numbers for Counter-Strike rapidly fell off except for a few thousand hardcore players. It's the same pattern that WC3 followed also, and you'd be real blind to believe that SC2 is going to sustain itself as an E-Sport for very long considering how bad the player population is right now.
And the fact that League pulls in more viewers is a big thing. Right now you have a very limited amount of companies willing to sponsor events/teams/etc. To believe otherwise would be asinine. Those companies want to sponsor something that will get them the most coverage. Starcraft 2 wasn't doing it for the Koreans, so they switched to League because it is a far more popular game.
On March 16 2012 03:29 Xalorian wrote:
LOL.
Casual fan base is everything to sponsors? WHAT? That's not fucking even remotely true. Viewers is everything for sponsors. They don't care about ANYTHING else.
And, viewers wise, SC2 is GROWING. The fact that LoL viewers numbers is growing faster doesn't change a shit for the SC2 community in the end. SC2 is still growing and will still grow. It's not even in competition against LoL. It's not even the same type of game.
People shitting and saying that SC2 is shrinking and dieing are even more retarded that those that are blindly shitting on the LoL success. SC2 is doing absolutly great, the fact that LoL pull more viewers change nothing to it. Actually, the fact that the SC2 player base is shrinking while the viewer base is growing is quite awesome and pretty much prove the fact that SC2 eSports scene is solid. Even when people stop playing it, they still watch it.
On March 16 2012 02:58 superstartran wrote:
Casual fan base is everything when it comes to sponsors. Without sponsors, your competitive gaming community will die. Period. Warcraft 3 suffered the same fate, but much slower due to the fact that the player base was sustained for quite sometime due to DotA and various other factors (such as it actually being a legitimately fun team game unlike SC2).
If you look at peak numbers for the NA/Korean servers you'll find that it's going down rapidly. People are moving on because the game simply cannot hold their attention, because it's not good enough of a game.
On March 16 2012 02:51 XiGua wrote:
It's not dying rapidly...
I could say that the Starcraft 2 player base is getting smaller and smaller but the whole scene is not going to be gone as fast as you say.
On March 16 2012 02:45 superstartran wrote:
Everything leading up to teamfights is infinitely more important than the teamfight itself. If you're jungler does his job properly and secures dragons/puts two lanes behind you already have the game won before any real teamfight occurs.
And two, Starcraft 2 is a badly designed game and the whole nation of Korea recognizes it. The only reason why it stays alive in the West is because of some unknown elitist reasoning that people keep thinking it is a great game. The game is dying rapidly, and without your casual fan base your game flat out loses sponsors. Without sponsors, your game dies, period.
On March 16 2012 01:09 Exempt. wrote:
Just as a followup I believe the reason why most people say team games like LoL are less skilled than sc2 is because if one is to be punished less severely on a mistake it slowly discludes the mistake over time. The problem with LoL is exactly that -- it discludes a lot of mistakes into a severely nasty punishment to the team in the end where one team wins a teamfight and ends the game.
That's a huge problem with the game because it emphasizes the skill needed for the singular teamfight and less on everything that leads up to the teamfight. This leads to the game being less dynamic / strategic. With the game being less strategic players can then focus more practice in perfecting a smaller number of mechanical skills in the first place. When the player can then focus more energy into a singular skill at hand they can then reach the supposed skillcap for that mechanical skill and perfect it. At this point we're at a dilemma as to whether or not players can do this as there is no proof or not this is theorteically possible. My proposition is that this is possible for players to perfect the mechanical skills required in LoL and thus hit or enclose the skillcap unlike ever seen before in any other competitive esport seen yet.
That's why I believe LoL in it's current state won't last as a competitive game.
You bring an interesting point about if 10 players hit then skillcap then a 5v5 would never end. I think this will happen to a lesser extent. Games will continuously get longer and longer if something isn't done to fix it because pushing and ending a near even game is too highly difficult for either team to do. As well, when games get longer and longer those mistakes we were talking about before will continuously become less important -- ever much so that the team fight becomes increasingly more important.
I think you are completely correct about balance, it's a pretty easy fix to design the game to be better. In order to make the game better I feel they need to rebalance the game in a way where the end team fight plays a slightly less importance in the grand scheme of things. In which case LoL certainly would be a more competitive game in my eyes.
One area in which I think they could do this is revamping their summoner spell system, the game would be much more dynamic and strategic if it were possible for players to change their summoner spells during the game. This would further increase the skillcap by adding larger strategic depth to the game. The means by which they do this whether by cooldowns, gold use, whatever, doesn't matter.
TL;DR: I simply don't understand why people are so vehemently against my opinions when their were thousands upon thousands of SC2 related threads stating that starcraft was designed wrong and was a bad game. Well it was, and blizzard redesigned and balanced the game until shit like 4 gate weren't so predominant. LoL NEEDS to go through this same phase in design change or it flat out won't deliver as a good competitive game.
On March 16 2012 00:46 Rorance wrote:
[quote]
Okay, understood.
I'm going to try and parallel E-Sports with Sports in order to draw a comparison most people can grasp, I hope.
You can look at any sport that makes people compete on an individual level such as table tennis or golf and argue that they require more individual skill to succeed in. Which is of course correct, but that's only because if you make a mistake it's a lot more unforgiving then if you make a mistake in a team oriented sport like Hockey or Football (CFL/NFL variety).
What hurts my head is when people say team games require less or no skill because they aren't punished nearly as hard for making individual mistakes. If a table tennis player over shoots and misses the table, bam the opponent is up a point, if you are a quarterback and throw an interception you at least have the rest of your team on the field to stop an immediate touchdown and the defense to recover the ball. Taking away individual accountability doesn't make any team based sport require less skill on an individual level, they aren't mutually exclusive. We wouldn't have individuals on teams like Wayne Gretzky or Peyton Manning getting held up on people's shoulders and being heralded as masters of their craft if individual skill didn't matter.
Of course no sport really has a skill cap, it would lead to a very uninteresting viewing experience. If two people hit the skill cap in table tennis i'm sure it would be fun to watch for the first 3 minutes but after that when you realize no player is going to drop the ball so to speak it removes any aspect of suspense. I think this holds true for e-sports as well, if you had even 10 people hit the skill cap in LoL and pitted them in a 5vs5 the game would simply never end. People would realize the game isn't a viable competitive medium and move on, or Riot would fix it somehow, maybe make people maintain 300+ APM or get booted as so many people hold that number as a measure of skill these days.
Balance is also a relatively easy thing to address, even in a game with as many diverse pieces as LoL has. Day[9] summed balance up really well on an episode of the Daily or SotG, I can't quite remember. To paraphrase he said something along the lines of if something is overpowered then every single person would simply use that race/class/strategy/character. That of course would mean the game would get very stale very quick and not be a viable competitive medium. Of course the volatility of LoL simply means this won't happen, if one combination of characters seems to be unbeatable somebody will find a crack in that and exploit it with another combination of characters. It's like mixing boxing, rock paper scissors and chess into a sport between two opponents who have 5 hands that act on their own but are guided by one person.
Let me break that down a bit and explain... The boxing aspect comes from the fact you are trying to beat your opponent in a set number of rounds either by knocking him out or through a much longer game plan and simply out playing him. Rock paper scissors covers the randomness that is inherent in every game and sport; you, you're team and your opponents can't be predicted and individuals will have advantages over others but generally balance over all as a team. Chess simply because each person has a set amount of pieces to play with, 5 in the case of LoL with their active skills (You can go into items but shhhh), knowing what to use and when and being able to make those decisions in a split second repeatedly and accurately over a 20-30 minute game is exhausting. Doing all that is hard enough, but doing it with 4 other people while trying to act as a coherent whole is a difficult task.
I agree with you when you say knowledge gives you the tools you need to improve and be skillful. You don't see many pro golfers using a driver on the green >.<' Having the knowledge to know what tools to use and when is what really separates E-Sports from sports in my opinion.
[quote]
Okay, understood.
I'm going to try and parallel E-Sports with Sports in order to draw a comparison most people can grasp, I hope.
You can look at any sport that makes people compete on an individual level such as table tennis or golf and argue that they require more individual skill to succeed in. Which is of course correct, but that's only because if you make a mistake it's a lot more unforgiving then if you make a mistake in a team oriented sport like Hockey or Football (CFL/NFL variety).
What hurts my head is when people say team games require less or no skill because they aren't punished nearly as hard for making individual mistakes. If a table tennis player over shoots and misses the table, bam the opponent is up a point, if you are a quarterback and throw an interception you at least have the rest of your team on the field to stop an immediate touchdown and the defense to recover the ball. Taking away individual accountability doesn't make any team based sport require less skill on an individual level, they aren't mutually exclusive. We wouldn't have individuals on teams like Wayne Gretzky or Peyton Manning getting held up on people's shoulders and being heralded as masters of their craft if individual skill didn't matter.
Of course no sport really has a skill cap, it would lead to a very uninteresting viewing experience. If two people hit the skill cap in table tennis i'm sure it would be fun to watch for the first 3 minutes but after that when you realize no player is going to drop the ball so to speak it removes any aspect of suspense. I think this holds true for e-sports as well, if you had even 10 people hit the skill cap in LoL and pitted them in a 5vs5 the game would simply never end. People would realize the game isn't a viable competitive medium and move on, or Riot would fix it somehow, maybe make people maintain 300+ APM or get booted as so many people hold that number as a measure of skill these days.
Balance is also a relatively easy thing to address, even in a game with as many diverse pieces as LoL has. Day[9] summed balance up really well on an episode of the Daily or SotG, I can't quite remember. To paraphrase he said something along the lines of if something is overpowered then every single person would simply use that race/class/strategy/character. That of course would mean the game would get very stale very quick and not be a viable competitive medium. Of course the volatility of LoL simply means this won't happen, if one combination of characters seems to be unbeatable somebody will find a crack in that and exploit it with another combination of characters. It's like mixing boxing, rock paper scissors and chess into a sport between two opponents who have 5 hands that act on their own but are guided by one person.
Let me break that down a bit and explain... The boxing aspect comes from the fact you are trying to beat your opponent in a set number of rounds either by knocking him out or through a much longer game plan and simply out playing him. Rock paper scissors covers the randomness that is inherent in every game and sport; you, you're team and your opponents can't be predicted and individuals will have advantages over others but generally balance over all as a team. Chess simply because each person has a set amount of pieces to play with, 5 in the case of LoL with their active skills (You can go into items but shhhh), knowing what to use and when and being able to make those decisions in a split second repeatedly and accurately over a 20-30 minute game is exhausting. Doing all that is hard enough, but doing it with 4 other people while trying to act as a coherent whole is a difficult task.
I agree with you when you say knowledge gives you the tools you need to improve and be skillful. You don't see many pro golfers using a driver on the green >.<' Having the knowledge to know what tools to use and when is what really separates E-Sports from sports in my opinion.
Just as a followup I believe the reason why most people say team games like LoL are less skilled than sc2 is because if one is to be punished less severely on a mistake it slowly discludes the mistake over time. The problem with LoL is exactly that -- it discludes a lot of mistakes into a severely nasty punishment to the team in the end where one team wins a teamfight and ends the game.
That's a huge problem with the game because it emphasizes the skill needed for the singular teamfight and less on everything that leads up to the teamfight. This leads to the game being less dynamic / strategic. With the game being less strategic players can then focus more practice in perfecting a smaller number of mechanical skills in the first place. When the player can then focus more energy into a singular skill at hand they can then reach the supposed skillcap for that mechanical skill and perfect it. At this point we're at a dilemma as to whether or not players can do this as there is no proof or not this is theorteically possible. My proposition is that this is possible for players to perfect the mechanical skills required in LoL and thus hit or enclose the skillcap unlike ever seen before in any other competitive esport seen yet.
That's why I believe LoL in it's current state won't last as a competitive game.
You bring an interesting point about if 10 players hit then skillcap then a 5v5 would never end. I think this will happen to a lesser extent. Games will continuously get longer and longer if something isn't done to fix it because pushing and ending a near even game is too highly difficult for either team to do. As well, when games get longer and longer those mistakes we were talking about before will continuously become less important -- ever much so that the team fight becomes increasingly more important.
I think you are completely correct about balance, it's a pretty easy fix to design the game to be better. In order to make the game better I feel they need to rebalance the game in a way where the end team fight plays a slightly less importance in the grand scheme of things. In which case LoL certainly would be a more competitive game in my eyes.
One area in which I think they could do this is revamping their summoner spell system, the game would be much more dynamic and strategic if it were possible for players to change their summoner spells during the game. This would further increase the skillcap by adding larger strategic depth to the game. The means by which they do this whether by cooldowns, gold use, whatever, doesn't matter.
TL;DR: I simply don't understand why people are so vehemently against my opinions when their were thousands upon thousands of SC2 related threads stating that starcraft was designed wrong and was a bad game. Well it was, and blizzard redesigned and balanced the game until shit like 4 gate weren't so predominant. LoL NEEDS to go through this same phase in design change or it flat out won't deliver as a good competitive game.
Everything leading up to teamfights is infinitely more important than the teamfight itself. If you're jungler does his job properly and secures dragons/puts two lanes behind you already have the game won before any real teamfight occurs.
And two, Starcraft 2 is a badly designed game and the whole nation of Korea recognizes it. The only reason why it stays alive in the West is because of some unknown elitist reasoning that people keep thinking it is a great game. The game is dying rapidly, and without your casual fan base your game flat out loses sponsors. Without sponsors, your game dies, period.
It's not dying rapidly...
I could say that the Starcraft 2 player base is getting smaller and smaller but the whole scene is not going to be gone as fast as you say.
Casual fan base is everything when it comes to sponsors. Without sponsors, your competitive gaming community will die. Period. Warcraft 3 suffered the same fate, but much slower due to the fact that the player base was sustained for quite sometime due to DotA and various other factors (such as it actually being a legitimately fun team game unlike SC2).
If you look at peak numbers for the NA/Korean servers you'll find that it's going down rapidly. People are moving on because the game simply cannot hold their attention, because it's not good enough of a game.
LOL.
Casual fan base is everything to sponsors? WHAT? That's not fucking even remotely true. Viewers is everything for sponsors. They don't care about ANYTHING else.
And, viewers wise, SC2 is GROWING. The fact that LoL viewers numbers is growing faster doesn't change a shit for the SC2 community in the end. SC2 is still growing and will still grow. It's not even in competition against LoL. It's not even the same type of game.
People shitting and saying that SC2 is shrinking and dieing are even more retarded that those that are blindly shitting on the LoL success. SC2 is doing absolutly great, the fact that LoL pull more viewers change nothing to it. Actually, the fact that the SC2 player base is shrinking while the viewer base is growing is quite awesome and pretty much prove the fact that SC2 eSports scene is solid. Even when people stop playing it, they still watch it.
And guess who sponsors are gonna fork out money to? The game with more viewers. Which game has more viewers? The game that is viewed as more "casual" and "friendly." Guess what that game is. Hint : It's not Starcraft 2.
SC2's viewer numbers are growing marginally. SC2's player base is dying rapidly off. Your viewer numbers in a year or two will rapidly drop off, just like how the viewer numbers for Counter-Strike rapidly fell off except for a few thousand hardcore players. It's the same pattern that WC3 followed also, and you'd be real blind to believe that SC2 is going to sustain itself as an E-Sport for very long considering how bad the player population is right now.
And the fact that League pulls in more viewers is a big thing. Right now you have a very limited amount of companies willing to sponsor events/teams/etc. To believe otherwise would be asinine. Those companies want to sponsor something that will get them the most coverage. Starcraft 2 wasn't doing it for the Koreans, so they switched to League because it is a far more popular game.
You are really full of shit, seriously.
SC2 team actually have more sponsors than LoL teams. Viewers number don't "grow" marginaly. Just look at any MLG events or Dreamhack, or Day9 stream, or IPL TAC. Yes, LoL have more viewers... why in the fucking hell should that imply that SC2 will drop or is less successful than it was? LoL success have nothing to do with SC2 success, and LoL is obviously not leeching SC2 viewers, since the viewers count is still growing despite the big rise in LoL viewers.
I'm not a fan of LoL, but I hope that it will stay popular and big for a long time, since it's good for the community money-wise and viewers-wise. I don't see how it's actually bad for SC2, at all. Actually, it will probably just push Blizzard to kick their own ass and do something about it, to share a bigger part of the cake. And that's just good for us, SC2 viewers and players.
And, no, Korea didn't switched to LoL form SC2, that's a blatant lie. Actually, the SC2 community in Korea is intact if not bigger than it was. Most people switching for something are not switching from SC2, but from BW. SC2 is not having the success that it had with BW in Korea, but the scene still lived there, and as showed by the last GSL final, is actually growing, without the help of OGN or OSL. Less success in Korea but a fucking big success story here, in the west. It's a fair trade for us, I would say and i'm perfectly fine with it.
You are just a retarded and a blind hater that don't know shit about the SC2 scene, the same way that those shitthing on LoL are haters. So please, now, just leave this whole website and never look back : no one wants retarded haters here. Go and enjoy your LoL, learn to have fun and relax, instead of vigorously shitting on everything that is not your game. I love SC2 and I enjoy SC2. I love KoF13 and follow KoF13, even tho it doesn't have that big of a success and I don't need to bitch on every other fighter games just to validate my own opinion. You can love anything you want and follow anything you want, that's all fine. A human actually mentally stable would not need to shit on a whole community just to feel better.
Don't worry for us, the SC2 scene is doing fine and will still continue to do fine for a long time. In the end, as long as I can PLAY the game I love, as long as I can follow the casters I love and the players I love, playing the game that I love, I don't fucking need it to be the best ESPORT or the MOST POPULAR GAME. I don't need validation of the mass to feel better, nor should you. If LoL is your think, that's really nice and you should be happy about the success that it have... But I don't fucking see how it's remotely linked to the SC2 scene.
I REPEAT, SC2 is doing fine. If LoL is doing better, good thing for them, still doesn't change a shit to the fact that SC2 is doing fine and that it will continue to do so. And SC2 is still played by tons and tons of peoples, that's way enough to be successful as a spectator eSports, even if LoL have more than that.
Has Milkis told you this?
Don't even know what you are talking about, actually :x
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