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konadora
Singapore66360 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:43 Wildmoon wrote: It's about what you think #1 Esport means. If it's higest amount of tournaments and prize money overall than it's SC2. If it's highest amount of viewer than it's LoL. #1 esports = most viewers plain and simple also why sc2 failed | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:39 coddan wrote: All the exchange services I can find, as well as Google's built-in currency conversion tool, says that 2 billion won is 1.8 million dollars. Where do you find that 2,000,000,000 KRW is 180,000 USD? The conversion rate Kotaku reports also matches with the GSL KRW/USD prize money. Are you sure you are correct about it being a mistranslation? Rotinegg wrote it wrong. It's not 2 billion won, it's 200 million won (2억원). In that case, 180,000 USD would be correct. The point is this, though: LoL is succeeding in Korea where SC2 failed. That prize money is for a 3 month-long Teamleague complete with regular season and playoffs (Like GSTL and SPL, if you must compare). Believe me and other Korean translators when we say it's not a pretty picture for SC2 in Korea at least. The rest of the world? Well that's another discussion for which I am not informed enough. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:43 Wildmoon wrote: It's about what you think #1 Esport means. If it's higest amount of tournaments and prize money overall than it's SC2. If it's highest amount of viewer than it's LoL. Err I could give less shit about prize money today. It just shows me how much money they get from sponsors and how much they're willing to feed the money into the scene to make the game grow. Even with the feeding of money into SC2 scene in Korea, it failed compared to OSL which has less prize pool but had huge success. So money doesn't say everything. Viewership and popularity does, however. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:41 rotinegg wrote: Sorry i can't count in english lol 8 zeros so 0.2 billion, not 2... my bad lol Completely offtopic but this had me laughing so incredibly hard. Props for unintentional epic funnieness, ty! | ||
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Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
In the end, people are literally afraid of playing RTSs, especially online while they don't have a problem playing DotA-like games because a) they're a part of 5, b) it isn't that tasking and c) you have the grind/level reward feeling, which means every time you level up / buy some new items, you feel good. Starcraft 2 is a game which is very well watchable even if you don't play it much or even at all yourself. That's not the case with DotA/LoL/HoN at all. If you don't have good knowledge you just cannot follow it really. On top of that a 1v1 Sc/sc2 match is just better "observable". However, when you have 100 times more people playing LoL there's no chance in hell that a Starcraft 2 Stream can attract as many people as a LoL steam. Even if BNet2.0 was super amazing, people loved every aspect about it and so on and so on, it's still an RTS. People are scared of that genre for some weird reason and thus the player base will never ever be as huge as one of a DotA-clone. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:39 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: People need to actually read posts before responding to them. The paragraph immediately after very clearly explained: People need to actually read between the lines. They're video games. They do not in any way accurately represent the entirety war; instead they represent conflict. How that's done varies game to game. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66360 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:44 TwoToneTerran wrote: I wonder how long until we've got LoL players calling SC2 players elitists who couldn't move on from a dead game. It's kind of cathartic. you're late to the party, TTT! | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On March 14 2012 23:28 MulletMurdoc wrote: what is this shit???? LoL. are you fking kidding me.... whats next, Mario cart? I always considered LoL to be like womans football of the E-sport scene get off my lawn.. fucking kids  User was warned for this post Mario Kart 64 did actually have a semi-professional following. There are world records that are still maintained for time trial runs (both using shortcuts/bugs as well as regular runs). A couple of the semi-pro players were also stupid good at the game, doing like a 1:30 run on Frappe's Snowland is stupid hard. Game is also wicked fun. The lesson here? E-sports can be whatever you want it to be. This idea that it has to be really hard and have a really high skill cap to be a "legitimate" e-sport is absurd and elitist. As has been said over and over, Lol is breaking out as an esport because it's free and as a result has a huge player base. It's also easy to learn; people want to be able to competitively play the game that they follow as an esport. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:42 ProxyKnoxy wrote: No, I actually think LoL is bigger than SC2. Look at the viewer numbers, they are ridiculous! People say that the stream is open in the game client, but it's a bit iffy as to whether this actually counts as a viewer. And individual players that stream often get 30k+ viewers. I don't play LoL but we can't just lie to ourselves. I think SC2 has much better infrastructure in terms of like tournaments and what-not, as aren't most LoL tourneys paid for by Riot? There is a clickable link to the stream site. That's all. Logging on to the client does not count you as a viewer since you are not redirected to the stream site automatically. Nothing's iffy here. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
I made a post earlier kind of mocking the dudes talking about how LoL is just so easy and why would you dumb down your gameplay and blah blah it's literally the exact same thing that happened on this forum a couple years ago word for word. | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:25 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: This is seriously one of the most inane and brainless posts I have ever read on TL, I am just speechless at the overwhelming lack of logic in your massive mischaracterization of my post. The real quotation: Your bullshit: Seriously? Did your common sense just decide to go AWOL here? The basic concept of two armies building up resources and troops to destroy each other is exactly the same fundamental RTS outline of BOTH BW and SC2. Your misrepresentation of my post is absolutely terrible, here, because you CAN'T distinguish BW/SC2. On the other hand, there's a clear difference between SC2 and LoL. LoL is a bunch of heroes fighting along three corridors lined with towers, where troops automatically spawn in regular intervals. Please tell me where, anywhere in reality, a person thinks of war as a bunch of people earning money from every kill in order to buy combat-enhancing items that allow them to destroy towers and therefore defeat the opposing faction. Now, I'll grant that LoL still in some senses simulates war, that spawns are supposed to be the small sampling of squads in a larger army and so on, but the degree in which it abstracts war is without a doubt much less intuitive to a third party than the traditional RTS of gathering resources and building and army. The real quotation: Your bullshit: Again, you're just spouting gibberish. Your skewed version of my post presents NO DIFFERENCE between BW or SC2, since both obviously involve visual micro-movements such as the split of marines in many directions in a split second (whether it be against lurkers or banelings doesn't matter). On the other hand, what does the layperson see when they watch LoL? They can hear a lot of clicking in LoL, sure, but SC2 at the very least has the person also moving their screens to multiple instances rapidly, which at least shows that they're doing a lot of different things in a lot of different areas at once, a skill of multitasking. Since LoL screens don't really jump all over the place, all that clicking doesn't really sound impressive. Can they see player builds? Not really, since builds are composed of a hero-set of abilities and items that an ordinary layperson wouldn't be familiar with, but any layperson can intuitively see aspects of Starcraft builds like a 6pool ling rush as a very early attack, or a quick expansion as an economically quick move to take. Maybe the actual battles within LoL? A series of spells cast in conjunction with each other. Sure, it may take skill to successfully pull off the kill, but visually, aside from the flashy lights and sounds, you don't actually see the skill in a tangible form, whereas the parting of marines as if they were the Red Sea under Moses is very apparent. The real quotation: Your bullshit: --> Seriously, this is where you out your post as a load of blind foolishness. Apparently, you couldn't even comprehend the simple logic of my point enough to even type it out, let alone attempt to refute it, where I clearly explained in the actual quotation. The point of his post is to say that for everyone's logic there's counterlogic to your logic. You say that sc2 is very intuitive, but that's because you've played the game a very long time now and you get the concept behind the game. I could easily counter your logic and say dota style games like League of Legends is far more intuitive. In sc2 you're literally controlling every single aspect of a small economy. Some people would say that that's very counter-intuitive to controlling 1 character with special abilities (people have been making up stories about heroes for generations), and working with 4 other people to achieve this goal of the destruction of an object through a maze of fortified structures. I could also say that sc2 is counter-intuitive because of the arbitrary resources of minerals and vespene gas whereas getting gold from killing people is very intuitive (people killing each other for money for generations). He did the same thing I just did, but satirized you and you took the bait very nicely. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
Some of the key points are: - First line in the article: LoL is contending for the #1 spot in the gaming industry. (and the article is about why) - LoL is the 2nd most played game in the PC Cafe (doesn't say whether it's based on time or person/game count) at 12.45%, beaten only by Aion which is holding the top spot at 15.35%. - SC2 was 12th on the PC Cafe rankings late 2011, and it's down to 18th as of the most recent survey. - OGN will broadcast the LoL tournament live twice a week, starting on the 21st (presumably March). 16 teams from all over the world will participate. Total tournament prizes add up to ~$177000 USD. 4 LoL tournaments are planned for this year. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
LoL is good for casuals, high skill ceiling with a close to infinite amount of strategies and builds, and most importantly it is exciting to watch. All this and Riot fully supports the game, streams within the game, million dollar prize pool for ladder seasons.. Blizzard has a lot to learn from Riot tbh. With bnet the way it is, casual population will easily look for a better alternative and go to LoL. | ||
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Xayoz
Estonia373 Posts
There will always be a crowd for rts and I do believe Starcraft will be the one rts for years to come. Also, cant help to notice, there are people who honestly believe Dota2 will overtake LoL. Bwhaah!  | ||
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Ambasa
United States29 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:41 rotinegg wrote: Sorry i can't count in english lol 8 zeros so 0.2 billion, not 2... my bad lol if you wanted a source for the ~180K prize pool, here you go http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=123520&db=issue&cate=&page=2&field=&kwrd= So yeah Kotaku's numbers are wrong. But most of the article's tone comes from the rulliweb article which doesnt really contain anything except fluff but it's true that LoL is pretty damn huge right now and there's more hype for it. BW not having dual leagues and a neutered PL probably affects the atmosphere around BW a lot. On March 15 2012 01:47 biology]major wrote: sc2 might have been able to compete with complete blizzard support, but with the way the game is right now casual population has dropped off significantly. LoL is good for casuals, high skill ceiling with a close to infinite amount of strategies and builds, and most importantly it is exciting to watch. All this and Riot fully supports the game, streams within the game, million dollar prize pool for ladder seasons.. Blizzard has a lot to learn from Riot tbh. With bnet the way it is, casual population will easily look for a better alternative and go to LoL. SC2 had blizzard support. GOM's prize pools were half funded by Blizzard (or some say half, some say all) last year. GOM's prize pool is no longer being supported by Blizzard. Blizzard did EVERYTHING they could to try and get SC2 into an "esport" in Korea. They even had the game for free for many months after release. Koreans just didn't care. Also SC2 is on a huge downtrend in korea. DOn't think that progamers retiring or going to foreign tournaments isn't going to stop. GSL was a big deal last year cause there was a new tourney every month. NOw with only 3~4 GSLs it's no longer as big of a deal as it was before. OGN is probably doing a SC2 league soon though, so we'll see how that holds up against LoL or if that helps SC2 out in any way, but it's pretty damn clear that LoL is going to be the big thing (for now). The infrastructure for BW/SC2 is far better though. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:45 supernovamaniac wrote: Err I could give less shit about prize money today. It just shows me how much money they get from sponsors and how much they're willing to feed the money into the scene to make the game grow. Even with the feeding of money into SC2 scene in Korea, it failed compared to OSL which has less prize pool but had huge success. So money doesn't say everything. Viewership and popularity does, however. You can use amount of tournament for SC2 as a proof for being #1 Esport worldwide. It's an opinion after all. | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:45 Sandster wrote: People need to actually read between the lines. They're video games. They do not in any way accurately represent the entirety war; instead they represent conflict. How that's done varies game to game. You're still not understanding what I'm saying. By war, I am using it synonymously with armed conflict, hence my explanation that it is abstracting some kind of larger conflict. Even if your point is that LoL is simulating a fictional battle scenario, as if some weird alien race decided that this particular format would be an entertaining gladiatorial scene, you're only proving the point that I'm making, which is the fact that SC2's abstraction of the traditional concept of conflict as factions controlling resources and producing armies to defeat the other would best be the more familiar/recognizable abstraction of conflict by a person who had no familiarity with the game previously. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On March 15 2012 01:44 konadora wrote: #1 esports = most viewers plain and simple also why sc2 failed Failed at what? It's still successful as you speak. If you mean failed at being #1, then it's unavoidable. It's the genre. LoL despite what fans say, is factually more casual oriented. SC2 requires work to be fun for a lot of people, but the same applies to every RTS, it's a reward. LoL is instant gratification for a lot of people. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
You could write a book about why this has happened, and we could spend months debating the implications and future results of this, but even today (and a few months ago when OGN first premiered LoL) one thing is clear, and that's that this represents a huge missed opportunity for our community. | ||
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