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On March 15 2012 01:25 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
On the other hand, there's a clear difference between SC2 and LoL. LoL is a bunch of heroes fighting along three corridors lined with towers, where troops automatically spawn in regular intervals. Please tell me where, anywhere in reality, a person thinks of war as a bunch of people earning money from every kill in order to buy combat-enhancing items that allow them to destroy towers and therefore defeat the opposing faction.
Because war is CLEARLY better defined as having training facilities that churn out one soldier at a time, in regular intervals.
Or people running faster because they have a knife pulled out instead of a pistol, and shoot people in the head with sniper rifles while jumping through hallways.
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Talk about Dota and HoN being better games than LoL -> Neither of those better games had any support in Korea, nor the companies (or developers) pushed the game in Korea.
Hence, it's natural that LoL is the winner in this case.
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On March 15 2012 01:31 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote:On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. On March 14 2012 21:38 Mikey wrote:On March 14 2012 21:17 Shikyo wrote:On March 14 2012 21:13 Mikey wrote:
LOL, what. How does a casual game that has no competitive aspect become to the most competitive game in the most competitive country? If this is warn worthy so be it, but I just don't see how the lackluster title called LoL is at the top of eSports. I guess DotA2 will easily become the biggest eSport at this rate. Like exactly this kind of comments make no sense. How does it have no competitive aspect? Of course it does, it even has multiple different ranked ladders, where you can actually see your position in comparison to the entire game population(not just a single league). Just because a game is fun to play doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. And again I'd like to point out that SC2 actually casualizes itself far more than LoL. Ranked ladders? I have friends who played DotA/HoN who played LoL for 2 weeks and hit top 10 on the LoL 'competitive rankings' just to prove how big of a joke it is. The game is completely dumbed down for casual play and almost every competitive aspect of DotA was removed for the making of LoL. When are YOU and the rest of the LoL fan base going to realize Riot games is simply sucking up all the profits they can. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks? FYI, Mikey is friends with many of the top North American DotA/HoN players.
Realize he said top 10? Only one I can think of is Chu but he's not even in top 100, so who could it be?
(Also this witch hunt is ridiculous)
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United States1719 Posts
LoL is fun dunno what all this bitching about skill is about...
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To those saying that LoL Esports will not last long in Korea:
Not if Kim Carrier is involved! (Shameless self-promotion as well).
Tossgirl on Carrier
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i thnink this could be really good for sc2 actually... Because the game is free and so noob friendly they have a huge player base.. and with the it's competitive scene growing everyday when all the LoL's fan will start figuring out how easy their game actually is i think its gunna die off eventually(just because any1 can be a pro gamer at this game if u spend the right amount of time into it e.i: prolly 90% of the competitive scene have been unheard of in any other esport games as far as i know)).. but all these kids watching lol and loving watching it will want to watch something else.. and i hope that most of em will switch to sc2..
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On March 15 2012 01:34 jpak wrote:To those saying that LoL Esports will not last long in Korea: Not if Kim Carrier is involved! (Shameless self-promotion as well). Tossgirl on Carrier
ACEEEEEEEEEEEEE? ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! AHHHHHHHHH ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On March 15 2012 01:35 sykiz wrote:
i thnink this could be really good for sc2 actually... Because the game is free and so noob friendly they have a huge player base.. and with the it's competitive scene growing everyday when all the LoL's fan will start figuring out how easy their game actually is i think its gunna die off eventually(just because any1 can be a pro gamer at this game if u spend the right amount of time into it e.i: prolly 90% of the competitive scene have been unheard of in any other esport games as far as i know)).. but all these kids watching lol and loving watching it will want to watch something else.. and i hope that most of em will switch to sc2..
Not when sc2 doesn't even have that much exposure in Korea compared to BW.
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On March 15 2012 01:23 Juicyfruit wrote:
Then you've just proven how difficult the game is, as the people who dedicated such a large portion of their time to a game havn't even begun to scratch the surface of optimizing their gameplay.
maybe if good people bothered with the game we would see a difference.
On March 15 2012 01:25 Josh111 wrote:
LOL, your proud for getting to 1500 elo? You do realize 1500 ELO when comparing it to high level play is a joke right? 1500 is comparable to low plat.
proud? no.
but top 10% of the active ranked playerbase is still top 10% of a large player base.
I managed to do this while, and this is the important part, having almost no time to play the game because I was busy with graduate school.
why?
because the game is pathetically easy and the people who play it are stupid.
see when you hear it from someone who spends 40 hours a week streaming, it's ok. but when you hear it from someone else, it's not. I mean I get it, you like the game and you have deluded yourself into thinking it's a good competitive game so when someone points out an inconvenient reality it's much easier to just attack them then to be introspective and think about why people feel that way.
all Im saying is that no one has to have this conversation about DotA 2.
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On March 15 2012 01:35 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:34 jpak wrote:To those saying that LoL Esports will not last long in Korea: Not if Kim Carrier is involved! (Shameless self-promotion as well). Tossgirl on Carrier ACEEEEEEEEEEEEE? ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! AHHHHHHHHH ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man Korean LoL commentary is so hilarious. "MORGANA ULTI AAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!"
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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SC2 vs LoL aside I would like to know from those who play LoL competitively and follow pro LoL what makes their game better suited as the ultimate MOBA e-sport.
Looking at BW, CS, Quake it is quite obvious those three are the deepest, most competitive, and most challenging of their genre, thus happening to be the most successful in e-sports. Where exactly does LoL distinguish itself in gameplay apart from DotA as a competitive title? I've played about 600 games of LoL and have yet to see why it should be LoL, and not DotA, that carries the MOBA genre as a true competitive title.
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On March 15 2012 01:36 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:35 supernovamaniac wrote:On March 15 2012 01:34 jpak wrote:To those saying that LoL Esports will not last long in Korea: Not if Kim Carrier is involved! (Shameless self-promotion as well). Tossgirl on Carrier ACEEEEEEEEEEEEE? ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! AHHHHHHHHH ACEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man Korean LoL commentary is so hilarious. "MORGANA ULTI AAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!" And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Makes the game so much better than it is, spectator wise.
And I've always wondered why foreign casters/commentators can't do the same.
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You guys are looking at this ALL wrong. It's no longer just about Korea. This shit is worldwide now, that's all.
SC2 is easily the #1 esport, i have no idea why people are taking an opinion piece from a mainstream retard as gospel. Look at what is going on worldwide. What is happening is that korea IS big on esports, but the COMPETITIVE esports scene is no longer SOLELY in korea. it has exploded onto the world map, where players are moving OUT of korea to compete in bigger money, more prestigious USA based and European leagues and tournaments. Korea is like the breeding ground for all the good players, like college football is for the NFL, then once they get really good in GSL they start going to MLG and IEM and all that to make money and get famous worldwide. basically, korean players are starting to look OUTWARD at the possibility of a huge worldwide fanbase (and money) the way foreign SC players/fans used to look INWARD at them. which obviously signifies an explosion of growth and popularity in esports. it's no longer solely confined to one country, and is gaining momentum in the outside world. why might Laugh out Loud be more popular in korea? maybe because korean companies can no longer keep up with all the foreign money being dumped into REAL, COMPETITIVE esports. Which is obviously a good thing.
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Well this feels like dejavu, it's like LoL is to SC2 what SC2 is to BW.
Sad to see this happening...
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On March 15 2012 01:31 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote:On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. On March 14 2012 21:38 Mikey wrote:On March 14 2012 21:17 Shikyo wrote:On March 14 2012 21:13 Mikey wrote:
LOL, what. How does a casual game that has no competitive aspect become to the most competitive game in the most competitive country? If this is warn worthy so be it, but I just don't see how the lackluster title called LoL is at the top of eSports. I guess DotA2 will easily become the biggest eSport at this rate. Like exactly this kind of comments make no sense. How does it have no competitive aspect? Of course it does, it even has multiple different ranked ladders, where you can actually see your position in comparison to the entire game population(not just a single league). Just because a game is fun to play doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. And again I'd like to point out that SC2 actually casualizes itself far more than LoL. Ranked ladders? I have friends who played DotA/HoN who played LoL for 2 weeks and hit top 10 on the LoL 'competitive rankings' just to prove how big of a joke it is. The game is completely dumbed down for casual play and almost every competitive aspect of DotA was removed for the making of LoL. When are YOU and the rest of the LoL fan base going to realize Riot games is simply sucking up all the profits they can. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks? FYI, Mikey is friends with many of the top North American DotA/HoN players.
Doesnt matter who he is friends with. I was really generous with my first post, its more like 200 games JUST to get to level 30 let alone playing in the ladder. Its IMPOSSIBLE to get to top 10 in ranked ladder in 2 weeks (on a new account).
If he is playing on an already level 30 account then ok but idk why a competetive HON player would brag about that (if hes good at hon then you will be good at lol, lots of the skills transfer over) and half of the work was already done for you
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if true im happy to hear this. I think its pretty clear already, that lol have way higher potential for marketing than sc2 or bw ever had.
Im happy all this esport stuff move on to newer more popular games and starcraft get back be to just a game.
With a little bit luck, all the dramas attention, all the "esport" talk and all the fanboys move with the trend.
And the rest can stay in sc2 and can have a "esport" free game with some little good tournaments and allot of fun.
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I'm a master level SC2 player, and after playing LoL for 1 week ~8 hours a day w/ 3 1400 elo players(they said that was pretty decent, they certainly dominated normal level 30 games so idn) and 1 other level 30 newbie (was playing on a friends level 30 account) These are my thoughts:
1st the cons: Only 1 team comp is viable at high level (ad carry support Bot, ap mid, jungler, melee top) Obviously multiple characters can fill the same role (there are more than 1 ad carries) but I see that as a glaring weakness
Only 1 map- I've been told that they change the map from time to time, but 1 map was a serious let down.
Beyond that I found the game play itself to be fun and addictive, but I have two other cons that aren't exactly riots fault:
The average LOL user is an asshole. I was amazed at how rude the average player actually is, like the worst ladder BM i've ever gotten was basically standard game fare. Just mind boggling
And I feel like the game is reallllly slow, I'd kill to have a low effects setting that plays at 140% speed but w/e.
Pros-
The game is simply fun
The basic concept of CSing is extremely easy to understand (last hit the minion derr) but very difficult to master (even vs bots I'm at ~60 CS in 10 when Im told the ideal is 110)
By the same token, understanding how to player a character and fulfill there lane role is relatively straightforward. But again hard to master, (do i dive the tower at level 3 to try and kill or do i let him back and get my free farm and try and get a kill later?) There is a legit difference between a decent X hero player, and a strong X hero to the point that you won't really even touch a good player if you aren't on his level, AND he's not missing any CS either.
Figuring out what your suppose to be doing after the laning phase is not very intuitive- Having the game sense and game awareness to know what you should be doing after the 12 min mark is a pretty difficult skill to master
Its more social than SC- you can get on skype with 4 friends and just have a blast chatting and playing the game. It reminds me a lot of my Halo 3 days, which I see as a positive.
Overall: While I don't think LOL is even on the same planet as SC2 in terms of learning curve and knowledge required to play at a high level (I'd say a brand new player probably needs a year+ to become a master level player) It is very fun, and there are certainly plenty of ways for a more skilled player and/or team to separate itself from less skilled teams- which is basically what is required for a game to be competitive.
Cheers^^
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On March 15 2012 01:35 red_b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:23 Juicyfruit wrote:
Then you've just proven how difficult the game is, as the people who dedicated such a large portion of their time to a game havn't even begun to scratch the surface of optimizing their gameplay. maybe if good people bothered with the game we would see a difference. Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:25 Josh111 wrote:
LOL, your proud for getting to 1500 elo? You do realize 1500 ELO when comparing it to high level play is a joke right? 1500 is comparable to low plat.
proud? no. but top 10% of the active ranked playerbase is still top 10% of a large player base. I managed to do this while, and this is the important part, having almost no time to play the game because I was busy with graduate school. why? because the game is pathetically easy and the people who play it are stupid. see when you hear it from someone who spends 40 hours a week streaming, it's ok. but when you hear it from someone else, it's not. I mean I get it, you like the game and you have deluded yourself into thinking it's a good competitive game so when someone points out an inconvenient reality it's much easier to just attack them then to be introspective and think about why people feel that way. all Im saying is that no one has to have this conversation about DotA 2.
Where's the cutoff 10% in let's say SC2 rankings, diamond? Don't think I'd need to say much more.
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I'm not a fan of LoL, but happy to see that it's doing well  eSports growing is better for all of us.
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All the exchange services I can find, as well as Google's built-in currency conversion tool, says that 2 billion won is 1.8 million dollars. Where do you find that 2,000,000,000 KRW is 180,000 USD? The conversion rate Kotaku reports also matches with the GSL KRW/USD prize money. Are you sure you are correct about it being a mistranslation?
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EPT
