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On March 15 2012 01:20 red_b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:13 Mecker wrote:
Weird how a team like Moscow 5 can be dominating when the game is so easy. The other professional LoL players must be really bad. yes, they are.
Then you've just proven how difficult the game is, as the people who dedicated such a large portion of their time to a game havn't even begun to scratch the surface of optimizing their gameplay.
Fact of the matter is, you can't play LoL perfectly anymore than you can play LoL or BW perfectly. In fact, I wager no one will ever be able to come close to being able to play any of those games perfectly because the sheer amount of factors in the games would overwhelm even the most intelligent and dexterous human being. You can get "better", but since the skill ceiling cap is essentially a bar so high that no player is ever going to reach, I don't understand how anyone can say one game is harder than the other.
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On March 15 2012 01:21 Bladeorade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:10 Wildmoon wrote:On March 15 2012 01:05 Bladeorade wrote:On March 15 2012 00:57 Wildmoon wrote:On March 15 2012 00:54 Bladeorade wrote:
I think it's funny people saying LoL is easier than SC2 while SC2 is one of the easiest competitive games.
I was high master SC2 and am only 1500 in LoL and I switched over in September. There is far more to LoL than mechanics and being good at one game does not necessarily translate to the next. I hope LoL becomes the new game it is far more fun and interesting than SC2 Other than BW I don't know what game is harder than SC2 and being high master doesn't mean you are that good at SC2 at all. Practically any FPS computer game. Comparing SC2 difficulty level to Brood Wars is ridiculous as well. Never said I was any good but I seriously doubt anyone posting in this thread complaining about LoL is any good at SC2. Its the terrible majority that complains about shit like this instead of being like "oh cool, another popular game," people post retarded shit like "LOLHURTSESPORTSTROLOLOL" and "only one character to control? must be ezpz." People is dumb. I find every FPS game out there far easier than SC2. CS:S, Quake etc are all far more difficult than SC2. I don't even see how this is an argument. Computer FPS is a ridiculous genre at the very top levels of play. As in I often have no idea what the hell is even going on and then theres a triple kill or the round is over. Other people have mentioned Smash, that game is also ridiculous at the highest level. This is still a retarded argument, SC2 is not a difficult game to learn, neither is LoL. Not to mention the level of difficulty in learning how to play a game has nothing to do with how competitive a game is. In fact I would argue an easier to learn game would be better. More people can enjoy it. First time SC2 viewers are like wtf? First time LoL viewer can be like okay that guy shoots stuff this one shoots magic that on is beating the other guy in the face etc.
I don't agree with you at all.
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On March 15 2012 01:19 Mecker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On March 15 2012 01:14 Schwopzi wrote:On March 15 2012 01:10 HyperionDreamer wrote:On March 14 2012 20:00 Jakkerr wrote:
It's quite sad that such an easy game is now the #1 E-sports game.
That's like live broadcasting rock paper scissors You're basically correct. I've played league with one hand while eating a chocolate bar before. And I've played starcraft while drawing molecular structures of benzodiazepines. Your point being? I think his point was that compared to SC, it's mechanically a joke. Yeah, I kinda like this about LoL. Koreans dominate SC2 because they simply practice more and achieve better multitasking skills, it's less about strategic gameplay and more about the capability to do stuff quickly. In LoL it's easy to become mechanically good at the game so the main deciding factor for winning or losing in high level games is strategy and teamplay. Personally I would prefer to be a SC2 pro because grinding 12 hours a day is something I know I can do but being able to handle extremely in depth strategies and coordination with teammates in LoL is something I can see as a lot harder to achieve.
You're acting like you can't have both mechanics and strategy when SC is great with that.
The only thing I see LoL having over SC/SC2 is teamplay, but then if you're going to get into the dota genre I would rather HoN or DotA 2 be popular. LoL is something I just play every now and then for fun because the heroes are all unique so it's fresh in that sense.
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I'm not sure about people's arguments about how LoL is easy. Just gonna clarify some stuff:
-Just because a game can ease players into it well doesn't mean anything when talking about actual high levels of play.
-If LoL actually was an easy game with a very low skill cap, we wouldn't have pro players who are still far from perfect.
-Controlling only one guy doesn't make a game any less challenging.
-Denying doesn't make a game instantly more challenging (I don't get this one at all, denying is not really that hard... like, at all) and lack of said element does not make a game less challenging.
-In a spectator game, a very important part of it is the casters. People used to watching Sc2 will probably find LoL a bit boring because they're used to the awesome casters they usually watch.
This last point is a little bit like my first point, but one of the most important aspects of a competitive e-sport is the gap between a casual player and a pro player. We can take a look at LoL, and easily see this gap is present. Not only will a casual player be visibly less skillful than a pro player (not CSing well, not putting down wards, not watching minimap well) but the level of teamwork between a pro team and a team of casual players is incredibly large. The former will be more coordinated, more aware of the map and more aware of what they have to do in general.
So... yeah, LoL pretty much has every right to be a competitive e-sport.
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On March 15 2012 01:23 Zoler wrote:
HoN/DotA >>> LoL anyday
Dota > hon > LoL
ftfy
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LoL is much, much more popular than SC 2 internationally.
That doesn't make it a better eSport game, but it does mean that if there's any money to be made from LoL eSports, people are going to try.
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On March 15 2012 00:56 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 00:47 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On March 15 2012 00:38 Fawkes wrote:On March 15 2012 00:28 RonNation wrote:this is NOT good for esports  yeah man...like not good...right? why the hell is it not good for esports? just because the game you favour isn't #1 anymore? In my view, I think it's problematic that a game like SC2 would be the frontrunner of e-sports because it has less appeal to those outside of gaming. Sure, SC2 has a larger casual player fanbase, but the credibility of esports in expansion is its ability to reach beyond the player-base into the broader mainstream population. BW is just better as a spectator sport. Many SC2 players I know readily acknowledge that it's not really interesting to watch. For one, the basic concept of two armies, resources, and destruction of opposing armies in BW is incredibly intuitive, whereas SC2 is bad. Second, BW is just better at visually representing skill. Whether it is an incredibly marine split, or even the sheer speed of FPVODs, it is much more distinguishable to the ordinary person. Third, SC2 is bad. [Edit]: lol at the failure of the kotaku article, where having the largest singular instance of cash prize suddenly makes something the biggest esport... Fix'd. See? I can turn any vague and unconvincing argument by just replacing a few words and a sentence. \o/
This is seriously one of the most inane and brainless posts I have ever read on TL, I am just speechless at the overwhelming lack of logic in your massive mischaracterization of my post.
The real quotation:
For one, the basic concept of two armies, resources, and destruction of opposing armies in SC2 is incredibly intuitive, whereas the AOS (or MOBA, but I refer the old WC3 terminology :3) notion of "lanes" of automatically spawning creep, towers, and champions is not so intuitive.
Your bullshit: For one, the basic concept of two armies, resources, and destruction of opposing armies in BW is incredibly intuitive, whereas SC2 is bad. Seriously? Did your common sense just decide to go AWOL here? The basic concept of two armies building up resources and troops to destroy each other is exactly the same fundamental RTS outline of BOTH BW and SC2. Your misrepresentation of my post is absolutely terrible, here, because you CAN'T distinguish BW/SC2.
On the other hand, there's a clear difference between SC2 and LoL. LoL is a bunch of heroes fighting along three corridors lined with towers, where troops automatically spawn in regular intervals. Please tell me where, anywhere in reality, a person thinks of war as a bunch of people earning money from every kill in order to buy combat-enhancing items that allow them to destroy towers and therefore defeat the opposing faction.
Now, I'll grant that LoL still in some senses simulates war, that spawns are supposed to be the small sampling of squads in a larger army and so on, but the degree in which it abstracts war is without a doubt much less intuitive to a third party than the traditional RTS of gathering resources and building and army.
The real quotation: Second, Starcraft is just better at visually representing skill. Whether it is an incredibly marine split, or even the sheer speed of FPVODs, it is much more distinguishable to the ordinary person.
Your bullshit: Second, BW is just better at visually representing skill. Whether it is an incredibly marine split, or even the sheer speed of FPVODs, it is much more distinguishable to the ordinary person.
Again, you're just spouting gibberish. Your skewed version of my post presents NO DIFFERENCE between BW or SC2, since both obviously involve visual micro-movements such as the split of marines in many directions in a split second (whether it be against lurkers or banelings doesn't matter).
On the other hand, what does the layperson see when they watch LoL? They can hear a lot of clicking in LoL, sure, but SC2 at the very least has the person also moving their screens to multiple instances rapidly, which at least shows that they're doing a lot of different things in a lot of different areas at once, a skill of multitasking. Since LoL screens don't really jump all over the place, all that clicking doesn't really sound impressive. Can they see player builds? Not really, since builds are composed of a hero-set of abilities and items that an ordinary layperson wouldn't be familiar with, but any layperson can intuitively see aspects of Starcraft builds like a 6pool ling rush as a very early attack, or a quick expansion as an economically quick move to take. Maybe the actual battles within LoL? A series of spells cast in conjunction with each other. Sure, it may take skill to successfully pull off the kill, but visually, aside from the flashy lights and sounds, you don't actually see the skill in a tangible form, whereas the parting of marines as if they were the Red Sea under Moses is very apparent.
The real quotation: Third, LoL encounters the same issues of CS in its 5v5 formatting, where its difficult to truly observe all the happenings in a game where there are often 10 multiple different instances of players that compose the overall game.
Your bullshit:
Third, SC2 is bad. --> Seriously, this is where you out your post as a load of blind foolishness. Apparently, you couldn't even comprehend the simple logic of my point enough to even type it out, let alone attempt to refute it, where I clearly explained in the actual quotation.
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On March 15 2012 01:08 red_b wrote:
the amount of butthurt from LoL players is fantastic.
the game is easy and the people who play it are garbage. I managed to make it (easily) into the top 10% of the NA ladder and this was during a time when I was finishing graduate school and had to spend a lot more time studying and going to class than playing.
it is literally impossible to miss a creep in LoL. instant turn rate, no windup, 8 million damage to creeps with masteries and runes.
free blink dagger, free damage spells (exhaust/ignite), never lose a dragon/baron (smite), characters cant get too out of control because it's not like you can gank (free map hack in clairvoyance, you can buy as many wards as you want at a time) so you cant shut down a smart carry on the tiny ass map.
LoL players are like creationists. they have their own little lie for every fact and are quick to accuse you of having never played, or maybe you "just don't understand", or whatever.
LoL is NOT suited to be a competitive game. And that's why people like Dendi play DotA and people like HSGG play LoL.
LOL, your proud for getting to 1500 elo? You do realize 1500 ELO when comparing it to high level play is a joke right? 1500 is comparable to low plat.
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I'm so glad for this news!
LoL is soooooooo much better than SCBW and SC2!!!
+ Show Spoiler +
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I love TL.
Every thread turns into a balance debate.
I enjoy playing LoL on a fun level, though I know its fairly easy to play, I much prefer SC2 for watching but I understand why LoL is a bigger market for playing and watching. Its free, its easy to play and its less intimidating than SC2 is to new players.
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On March 14 2012 20:00 Jakkerr wrote:
It's quite sad that such an easy game is now the #1 E-sports game.
That's like live broadcasting rock paper scissors
No, rock paper scissors is even more skill-based and also, they have broadcasted an actual rock paper scissor tournament.(surprisingly, some people did actually win an insane ammount of the games, compared to something seen as pure luck).
But yea, really. For a competitive game, the game has almost no skills, and I have watched some pro games of it and there is nothing amazing of it lol. The game is just way too casual to be called an actualy competitive game.
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On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:38 Mikey wrote:On March 14 2012 21:17 Shikyo wrote:On March 14 2012 21:13 Mikey wrote:
LOL, what. How does a casual game that has no competitive aspect become to the most competitive game in the most competitive country? If this is warn worthy so be it, but I just don't see how the lackluster title called LoL is at the top of eSports. I guess DotA2 will easily become the biggest eSport at this rate. Like exactly this kind of comments make no sense. How does it have no competitive aspect? Of course it does, it even has multiple different ranked ladders, where you can actually see your position in comparison to the entire game population(not just a single league). Just because a game is fun to play doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. And again I'd like to point out that SC2 actually casualizes itself far more than LoL. Ranked ladders? I have friends who played DotA/HoN who played LoL for 2 weeks and hit top 10 on the LoL 'competitive rankings' just to prove how big of a joke it is. The game is completely dumbed down for casual play and almost every competitive aspect of DotA was removed for the making of LoL. When are YOU and the rest of the LoL fan base going to realize Riot games is simply sucking up all the profits they can. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks?
Ummm when I was a top player and making money in other games, I easily topped 60 hours a week, probably more like 80 hours a week. Granted this was RTS, but it doesn't matter. You can't call someone a liar because he said someone played 120 hours in 2 weeks, which is 60 a week if you graduated preschool. 60 hours a week is completely and totally doable, and honestly at least 40 is bare minimum necessary to be a competitive player in a lot of games. You're fucking stupid.
On a broader note, there's a reason league of legends is abbreviated to "LoL" aside from the obvious. Because whenever someone mentions the stupid easy fucking games, people just go "LoL u play that? u fucking suck kid"
User was warned for this post
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Age of the casuals indeed, I laugh at the silly idiots who say "out with the old" and crap about kids. LoL is a fun game but it doesn't have the history or potential to be what Starcraft was. HotS will revitalize SC2 and we'll see where we go from there.
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On March 15 2012 01:21 Gosi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:18 Shikyo wrote:On March 15 2012 01:16 Gosi wrote:On March 15 2012 01:08 red_b wrote:
the amount of butthurt from LoL players is fantastic.
the game is easy and the people who play it are garbage. I managed to make it (easily) into the top 10% of the NA ladder and this was during a time when I was finishing graduate school and had to spend a lot more time studying and going to class than playing.
it is literally impossible to miss a creep in LoL. instant turn rate, no windup, 8 million damage to creeps with masteries and runes.
free blink dagger, free damage spells (exhaust/ignite), never lose a dragon/baron (smite), characters cant get too out of control because it's not like you can gank (free map hack in clairvoyance, you can buy as many wards as you want at a time) so you cant shut down a smart carry on the tiny ass map.
LoL players are like creationists. they have their own little lie for every fact and are quick to accuse you of having never played, or maybe you "just don't understand", or whatever.
LoL is NOT suited to be a competitive game. And that's why people like Dendi play DotA and people like HSGG play LoL. Lol, the ward thing is true? How many wards can you carry per hero, as many as you want? And don't you infinity TP in LoL too? It's so many things in LoL that makes up for mistakes so you can avoid being ganked it's amazing. 5 per slot. You have infinity tp but on a 6 minute cooldown and it takes a summoner slot. There's no TP scrolls. But you can't TP to towers, only back to the pool right? And all this counts in pro games? Is there runes or summoner slot (is that where you have like so you can get extra speed for 5 sec and things like that?) that are banned in pro games?
Masteries and runes are open in pro games. They are given to each player by default.
Every champ has microtransisitons and are pretty key to the game, this is the thought process that begins way even before the game begins, at higher levels though.
You have to remember, LoL is not dota, the ebb and flow of dota is nothing like how lol is. Lol by spectators view looks very objective like, there are transitions and timings where things happen, when you expect the next phase of game being.
Where as in dota, hell, one really skilled player really dictates the game.
None are bad in their own respects, i LOVE playing dota, moreso than lol because i WIN with mechanics rather than my teamwork, but LoL definitely earns its respective place in e-sports with the community it supports.
And it has a very damn good developer/client community around it.
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On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 21:38 Mikey wrote:On March 14 2012 21:17 Shikyo wrote:On March 14 2012 21:13 Mikey wrote:
LOL, what. How does a casual game that has no competitive aspect become to the most competitive game in the most competitive country? If this is warn worthy so be it, but I just don't see how the lackluster title called LoL is at the top of eSports. I guess DotA2 will easily become the biggest eSport at this rate. Like exactly this kind of comments make no sense. How does it have no competitive aspect? Of course it does, it even has multiple different ranked ladders, where you can actually see your position in comparison to the entire game population(not just a single league). Just because a game is fun to play doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. And again I'd like to point out that SC2 actually casualizes itself far more than LoL. Ranked ladders? I have friends who played DotA/HoN who played LoL for 2 weeks and hit top 10 on the LoL 'competitive rankings' just to prove how big of a joke it is. The game is completely dumbed down for casual play and almost every competitive aspect of DotA was removed for the making of LoL. When are YOU and the rest of the LoL fan base going to realize Riot games is simply sucking up all the profits they can. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks?
FYI, Mikey is friends with many of the top North American DotA/HoN players.
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On March 15 2012 01:29 Areon wrote:
Age of the casuals indeed, I laugh at the silly idiots who say "out with the old" and crap about kids. LoL is a fun game but it doesn't have the history or potential to be what Starcraft was. HotS will revitalize SC2 and we'll see where we go from there.
Umm, SC2 shouldn't need a revitalization.
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you sc2 guys shouldn't bitch about newb games ^^
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On March 15 2012 01:11 brainox wrote:
I think Lol will grow much more than sc2 will do.. unfortunately. But the game is just to good as an esport title. While i find sc2 has much more depth in strategy, decision making and mechanics
Lol grows so fast because it is
1) free to play so everyone can play it or test it
2) because of its teamplay often you see that people want to play with their friends
and for korea its an awesome game to play in pc bangs. It has low system requirments and teamplay makes really fun to play in pcbangs with friends.
I hope the growth of LoL will help esports in general so that sc2 grows with them
"Game is just too good of an esport title".... what?
No, the game is just... too free and casual friendly, that's the only thing that it have to it. It's a good thing for a game popularity, but have nothing to do with the eSport and competitive value.
What people don't get, tho, is that there is absolutly no way that someone not playing the game would watch LoL and be like : "IT'S LOOKS GREAT! IT'S EXCITING!". Basically, LoL popularity is entirely based on the viewers PLAYING the game. Actually, the game is so easy to learn compared to other games (even King of Fighters is way harder to learn than LoL... and it's a fighter game.) that peoples watching it kinda feel like they could really be the next LoL pro-players or that they can learn a lot by just watching it. In that regard, it's really good for the viewers count.
The problem, tho, is that LoL, by revolving completly around PLAYERS watching tournaments, is putting everything in the same basket. Sooner or later, players will get bored of playing or will switch to a newer and shinier moba game (Dota 2 at release? Blizzard Dota? A completly new IP? who know, but it will happen sooner or later) and then, the entire scene will be almost destroyed in a couple of weeks.
And that's pretty much not a problem for SC2. SC2 eSport scene is not revolving AT ALL around viewers playing the game to be entertained by games and event. Actually, the scene is still growing, tournament pretty much get higher and higher viewers count at each events, like LoL, but the player base is actually shrinking, unlike LoL. Sure, the player base shrinking is never a good thing... but it's cool the see that while shrinking, the viewers count is still growing.
And, Blizzard will probably use the big guns soon enough. They still have 2 big releases in front of them, unlike riot. LoL don't have any single players or custom map content, so, they can't really release an expension or whatever. Sure, they can release a big patch full of content... but that's still not an expansion, with a box, a big release, etc.
And, SC2 is evolving and changing way more than LoL, that's for sure. LoL, while metagame is switching now and then, is still always played on the same map, with the same lanes, with the same items, with the same creeps, the same farming, the same jungle, every single games. Sure they could release another game mode, like Dominion... but well... they will need to put much more effort into the competitive and balance aspect of it. Dominion is really a big pile of junk, eSport wise.
BTW, I'm loving LoL, playing more LoL and Dota2 than SC2 lately, but, I just can't see LoL lasting very long anyway as an eSports.
On March 15 2012 01:31 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 01:18 Josh111 wrote:On March 14 2012 20:21 darkscream wrote:
The problem with free games like LoL is that they can lose popularity just as fast as they gained it. And while it's great that Riot puts so much money back into the tournament scene, they do that because they need to buy loyalty from their players - otherwise they will just switch to the next good free game, or even the next MOBA game. They know they need to build a strong foundation because DOTA2 and Blizz DOTA will hit them like an earthquake.
edit: not to mention, kotaku is gawker so their opinion on ESPORTS is about as valuable dirt. LoL is very different then other free games before lol. LoL is not a game that can lose popularity fast, mostly because its so dam addicting and everchanging. I got the game in closed beta, have played over 2 thousand games over almost 3 years now and still play leagues on a somewhat regularly basis. On March 14 2012 21:38 Mikey wrote:On March 14 2012 21:17 Shikyo wrote:On March 14 2012 21:13 Mikey wrote:
LOL, what. How does a casual game that has no competitive aspect become to the most competitive game in the most competitive country? If this is warn worthy so be it, but I just don't see how the lackluster title called LoL is at the top of eSports. I guess DotA2 will easily become the biggest eSport at this rate. Like exactly this kind of comments make no sense. How does it have no competitive aspect? Of course it does, it even has multiple different ranked ladders, where you can actually see your position in comparison to the entire game population(not just a single league). Just because a game is fun to play doesn't mean that it isn't competitive. And again I'd like to point out that SC2 actually casualizes itself far more than LoL. Ranked ladders? I have friends who played DotA/HoN who played LoL for 2 weeks and hit top 10 on the LoL 'competitive rankings' just to prove how big of a joke it is. The game is completely dumbed down for casual play and almost every competitive aspect of DotA was removed for the making of LoL. When are YOU and the rest of the LoL fan base going to realize Riot games is simply sucking up all the profits they can. Mikey that is a complete lie. To even be able to get on the ranked ladder you have to be level 30 which takes far more then 2 weeks and then when you have reached level 30 your looking at atleast a 100 games (if you win more then twice as much as you lose) to get to a high place in the ladder.. lets say your friend never loses, or loses very rarely cause *lol is so easy* you are looking at 200 games (to get to 30 then to get to top 10), and lets say each game is 35 min (now im bad at math) but thats what 120 hours of gaming? Your friend can play for 120 hours in 2 weeks? FYI, Mikey is friends with many of the top North American DotA/HoN players.
And, obviously, he was probably talking about getting into top 10 2 weeks after their placement match. And no, it's not 200 games, if they are winning more than 60 to 75% of them... it could have been 30 games, if it was not so long after the Season start.
Getting the level 30 is really really not that long, with some exp boost. Actually, it's really fast.
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EPT
