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Political correctness gone mad - childhood obesity - Page 8

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Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
March 06 2012 14:17 GMT
#141
You don't know that it would aid the problem. Most likely, it would have zero visitors and be a waste of money.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
TofuFox
Profile Joined November 2010
374 Posts
March 06 2012 15:15 GMT
#142
Fat people don't need to be told being fat is less likely to be healthy, or they need to be shamed. I think they've noticed. Adding more shaming for being fat isn't necessarily going to do anything, and is more likely to just make you sound like an annoying evangelical christian. ("Have you heard the good news about Jesus?" "Yes, a thousand times, now shut up" vs "Have you heard how unhealthy and immoral it is to be fat" "Yes, a thousand times, now shut up").

But even beyond that, fitness isn't as simple as weight. Normal weight can be unhealthy, and even obese individuals can be metabolically healthy. Athough the latter notes that there are other health risks for being morbidly obese, and a limited amount of weight loss is going to help even the metabolically healthy obese, "fat" is wider than the morbidly obese. You can easily be overweight (and not the athlete sort, the fat sort) and be healthier than someone at a "normal" weight, if you're phsyically active.

(Personally, I'm perpetually in the normal BMI range due to my build/metabolism, but that doesn't mean I've always actually been healthy).
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
March 06 2012 15:23 GMT
#143
On March 06 2012 21:17 Nallen wrote:
Anyone with even the slightest confusion about why there is such a large scale obesity problem in the States needs to put an American restaurant portion next to a European one. The veil should be lifted. Also you should perhaps try stocking some fresh fruit and veg in your super markets.



This is so true. Not just European though. A japanese large sized meal is roughly the size of an american small, and a japanese large drink is smaller than an american small one.

Human's aren't meant to be fat. There is absolutely no evolutionary reason to be fat, unless you need to survive in a blizzard with minimal food.

The biggest problem is fast food and soda. We as a nation drink and eat so much shitty food that we got fat. Yes, some people have genetic disposition to be fat, but never obese. I have some big friends, some who are genetically big and some who are naturally big, but never huge. One of my friends made a conscious effort to cut bad food out of his diet and exercise, and in like 6 months he looked great. His brother is still fat because all he does is play WoW, but hes not obese because he doesn't eat fast food often.

Many americans drink multiple cokes every day, and eat fast food multiple times each week. It's cheap, tasty and addictive, but most importantly its terrible for you. If america cut out a majority of its fast food restaurants, it would almost fix the problem of childhood obesity.

I like what happened with disney, since it gets the idea out into the open, but the "attraction" never went through. I can't see it doing well, since it goes against a lot of what disney is, which is a place to have fun.
In Mushi we trust
Kira__
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
March 06 2012 15:58 GMT
#144
Also I find it funny how different our worlds are. This sort of thing would never have appeared in sweden, where young girls struggling with anorexia is far more common than obese kids. Had theme parks made a ride here with skinny girls to have a similar effect though, it would've been shut down withing 10 minutes for about the same reasons.
The truth is, Yagami-kun, I suspect that you may in fact be Kira.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 16:12:50
March 06 2012 16:01 GMT
#145
On March 07 2012 00:23 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
There is absolutely no evolutionary reason to be fat, unless you need to survive in a blizzard with minimal food.
Not to nitpick but it's in the exact same sentence, man.

It's not related to what's going on in the US/Britain/Australia/etc., but that's essentially the exact reason some subsets of human beings have had slower metabolisms and had a higher body fat %.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 16:04:37
March 06 2012 16:03 GMT
#146
On March 07 2012 00:23 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2012 21:17 Nallen wrote:
Anyone with even the slightest confusion about why there is such a large scale obesity problem in the States needs to put an American restaurant portion next to a European one. The veil should be lifted. Also you should perhaps try stocking some fresh fruit and veg in your super markets.



This is so true. Not just European though. A japanese large sized meal is roughly the size of an american small, and a japanese large drink is smaller than an american small one.

Human's aren't meant to be fat. There is absolutely no evolutionary reason to be fat, unless you need to survive in a blizzard with minimal food.

The biggest problem is fast food and soda. We as a nation drink and eat so much shitty food that we got fat. Yes, some people have genetic disposition to be fat, but never obese. I have some big friends, some who are genetically big and some who are naturally big, but never huge. One of my friends made a conscious effort to cut bad food out of his diet and exercise, and in like 6 months he looked great. His brother is still fat because all he does is play WoW, but hes not obese because he doesn't eat fast food often.

Many americans drink multiple cokes every day, and eat fast food multiple times each week. It's cheap, tasty and addictive, but most importantly its terrible for you. If america cut out a majority of its fast food restaurants, it would almost fix the problem of childhood obesity.

I like what happened with disney, since it gets the idea out into the open, but the "attraction" never went through. I can't see it doing well, since it goes against a lot of what disney is, which is a place to have fun.


I completely agree and would like to stress that the feasibility of the disney attraction and the question wether people should be warned/bugged/harrassed about obesity are two different arguments.

Also I think americans should actually demand more protection from unhealthy food- i.e. better food and health regulations (might be communism though, you never know) from their government. Yes, indifference/ignorance are everyones own fault, but there is something to be said for at the very least clearly labeling unhealthy food as such, to visualize the choice every customer is making when choosing his food.
11 years and counting- TL #680
AeroGear
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada652 Posts
March 06 2012 16:09 GMT
#147
Slower metabolism... sure you burn less calories, but you also tend to be less hungry or feel sated for longer after a meal. Regulate your blood sugar and you will have an easier time regulating your hunger and energy level throughout the day.

There's nothing wrong with a little fat..but as it builds up its effect on health are pretty severe, and the increasing costs for society and health care reflects this.
Driven by hate, fueled by rage
zezamer
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland5701 Posts
March 06 2012 16:14 GMT
#148
On March 07 2012 00:23 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Human's aren't meant to be fat. There is absolutely no evolutionary reason to be fat, unless you need to survive in a blizzard with minimal food.


You couldn't know when your next meal is going to be which meant collecting all possible energy from food and stocking it as fat was a good thing.

liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 06 2012 16:15 GMT
#149
On March 06 2012 16:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Everything seems to be politicized in the U.S. and I think that is greatly harming the country. How someone can view Obesity in a positive light or think that such displays hurts people feelings and shouldn't be acceptable I can't understand. Reality is harsh and sometimes tough love is called for. It is a major major problem in the U.S. and is only getting worse it needs to be dealt with.

The problem is that the US is addicted to the "victimization" racket. They manufacture victims as often as possible, under the most absurd reasoning possible, because victims and minorities carry more clout and influence. That influence naturally carries over into the ridiculous over sensitivity we refer to as "political correctness."
hongo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
207 Posts
March 06 2012 16:17 GMT
#150
Getting fat is the result of a complete lack of self control. People "want" to lose the weight, but they don't want to change how they eat/live. It's ridiculous. (I have a 350 lb roommate so I get to observe this phenomena every day. And then he complains all the time.)
vandelayindustries
Profile Joined August 2011
United States290 Posts
March 06 2012 16:18 GMT
#151
I could not care less if an individual wants to be obese or is happy/comfortable/at peace with being obese, but the issue I take with it is the financial burden placed on taxpayers to fund the abhorrant hospital fees some of these people command.

Tax unhealthy food and soda the same way you do other carcinogens such as tobacco and alcohol IMO. The point of McDonald's food being affordable should never trump the point of it being a detriment to human health.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 16:26:19
March 06 2012 16:22 GMT
#152
On March 07 2012 01:17 hongo wrote:
Getting fat is the result of a complete lack of self control. People "want" to lose the weight, but they don't want to change how they eat/live. It's ridiculous. (I have a 350 lb roommate so I get to observe this phenomena every day. And then he complains all the time.)


It has nothing to do with "self-control," it's simply that his brain more frequently values the pleasure of eating/relaxing over the desire to be thinner. Your brain has been programmed to judge differently (and your genes/metabolism surely plays a factor as well), it doesn't mean your "self-control" is superior.
Nallen
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom134 Posts
March 06 2012 16:22 GMT
#153
Why don't many areas in the States have fresh fruit and veg?

My Dad moved from the UK to the US a few years back. He's put on about 60lb (and he's 5'8"). Now he was inactive before, being in his late 50's and is still inactive now. What's changed is the size of the meals and the quality of the food.

He asked us what size T-shirts my brother and I wear for Christmas present buying last year. We told him medium. The shirts we got were fucking huge.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 06 2012 16:25 GMT
#154
On March 07 2012 01:18 vandelayindustries wrote:
Tax unhealthy food and soda

Oh jesus christ, here we go again, get the government involved and punish innocent people under atrocious reasoning...

Please people, please realize that there is no "unhealthy food," only unhealthy quantities of consumption of certain food.

There is nothing "unhealthy" about sugar, it's fundamental to survival... If I take a few sips of soda, it won't be unhealthy. If I drink a liter in a day, it will be unhealthy.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 06 2012 16:31 GMT
#155
On March 07 2012 01:22 Nallen wrote:
Why don't many areas in the States have fresh fruit and veg?

My Dad moved from the UK to the US a few years back. He's put on about 60lb (and he's 5'8"). Now he was inactive before, being in his late 50's and is still inactive now. What's changed is the size of the meals and the quality of the food.

He asked us what size T-shirts my brother and I wear for Christmas present buying last year. We told him medium. The shirts we got were fucking huge.

All areas in the US have access to fresh fruits and vegetables, except maybe the area inside of a fast food restaurant.

I wear medium shirts from the US, and I weigh 130 pounds. They aren't "fucking huge."
hongo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
207 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 16:36:34
March 06 2012 16:32 GMT
#156
On March 07 2012 01:22 liberal wrote:
It has nothing to do with "self-control," it's simply that his brain more frequently values the pleasure of eating/relaxing over the desire to be thinner. Your brain has been programmed to judge differently (and your genes/metabolism surely plays a factor as well), it doesn't mean your "self-control" is superior.


But that's what self-control is defined as, "self-denial: the act of denying yourself; controlling your impulses." So by your own response, it has everything to do with self-control and denying himself the pleasure of eating pizza and wings 3 times a week. And you can "program" your brain, it's all about developing habits. It's not like he was a baby in the womb who was programmed to love food and love sitting in his chair for 10 hours a day, it's a habit he developed. Of course it's hard to break habits and develop new ones, but it's not like it's out of his control.

Edit: I may have missed your point. I get that some people just value the food and want to eat it and get overweight. My point is I hate it when the complain about being overweight and say the are trying to change but clearly don't change anything. I don't care if people are overweight and still are happy with their lives.
vandelayindustries
Profile Joined August 2011
United States290 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-06 16:34:25
March 06 2012 16:34 GMT
#157
On March 07 2012 01:25 liberal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 01:18 vandelayindustries wrote:
Tax unhealthy food and soda

Oh jesus christ, here we go again, get the government involved and punish innocent people under atrocious reasoning...

Please people, please realize that there is no "unhealthy food," only unhealthy quantities of consumption of certain food.

There is nothing "unhealthy" about sugar, it's fundamental to survival... If I take a few sips of soda, it won't be unhealthy. If I drink a liter in a day, it will be unhealthy.


Clearly some degree of regulation is necessary as the American people—on average—have proven they are incapable of taking care of their bodies.

The proportion of people who die in this country due to weight-related heart failure or prescription drug is overwhelming, I don't think it's enough anymore to say that people, due to constitutional right to free dominion over their body, should be exempt from criticism or punishment for their unhealthy and anti-social behaviors.

If you think over-eating to the point of obesity or poor health is not anti-social behavior but purely self-destructive you are very wrong.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 06 2012 16:35 GMT
#158
On March 07 2012 01:32 hongo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 01:22 liberal wrote:
It has nothing to do with "self-control," it's simply that his brain more frequently values the pleasure of eating/relaxing over the desire to be thinner. Your brain has been programmed to judge differently (and your genes/metabolism surely plays a factor as well), it doesn't mean your "self-control" is superior.


But that's what self-control is defined as, "self-denial: the act of denying yourself; controlling your impulses." So by your own response, it has everything to do with self-control and denying himself the pleasure of eating pizza and wings 3 times a week. And you can "program" your brain, it's all about developing habits. It's not like he was a baby in the womb who was programmed to love food and love sitting in his char for 10 hours a day, it's a habit he developed. Of course it's hard to break habits and develop new ones, but it's not like it's out of his control.

Hmmm.... would you say he can also control his self-control, using... self-control? And so on, ad infinitum? I think I'm beginning to understand this type of thinking.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 06 2012 16:38 GMT
#159
On March 07 2012 01:34 vandelayindustries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 01:25 liberal wrote:
On March 07 2012 01:18 vandelayindustries wrote:
Tax unhealthy food and soda

Oh jesus christ, here we go again, get the government involved and punish innocent people under atrocious reasoning...

Please people, please realize that there is no "unhealthy food," only unhealthy quantities of consumption of certain food.

There is nothing "unhealthy" about sugar, it's fundamental to survival... If I take a few sips of soda, it won't be unhealthy. If I drink a liter in a day, it will be unhealthy.


Clearly some degree of regulation is necessary as the American people—on average—have proven they are incapable of taking care of their bodies.

The proportion of people who die in this country due to weight-related heart failure or prescription drug is overwhelming, I don't think it's enough anymore to say that people, due to constitutional right to free dominion over their body, should be exempt from criticism or punishment for their unhealthy and anti-social behaviors.

If you think over-eating to the point of obesity or poor health is not anti-social behavior but purely self-destructive you are very wrong.

Except these taxes don't punish behavior, they simply tax food. There's a clear difference there, which was the point you missed in my post.
vandelayindustries
Profile Joined August 2011
United States290 Posts
March 06 2012 16:39 GMT
#160
On March 07 2012 01:35 liberal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 01:32 hongo wrote:
On March 07 2012 01:22 liberal wrote:
It has nothing to do with "self-control," it's simply that his brain more frequently values the pleasure of eating/relaxing over the desire to be thinner. Your brain has been programmed to judge differently (and your genes/metabolism surely plays a factor as well), it doesn't mean your "self-control" is superior.


But that's what self-control is defined as, "self-denial: the act of denying yourself; controlling your impulses." So by your own response, it has everything to do with self-control and denying himself the pleasure of eating pizza and wings 3 times a week. And you can "program" your brain, it's all about developing habits. It's not like he was a baby in the womb who was programmed to love food and love sitting in his char for 10 hours a day, it's a habit he developed. Of course it's hard to break habits and develop new ones, but it's not like it's out of his control.

Hmmm.... would you say he can also control his self-control, using... self-control? And so on, ad infinitum? I think I'm beginning to understand this type of thinking.


What is your opinion on the question of dualism in philosophy of the mind? Do you believe the brain is the be-all-end-all? Do you believe free will is an actuality or merely a hypothesis? And why?

You cannot object to free will without a cogent argument.
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