EPTPaid eBooks\Stealing Books - Page 4
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On January 13 2012 00:06 Egyptian_Head wrote: Then why do you get to have them on your computer? You have used likely thousands of hours of peoples hard work without compensating them. You wouldn't have paid? Who cares, its not about lost sales, not for me anyway. Money is not everything. That is someones hard work, they have rights over there own work, you not paying for there work is just immoral. Yes, but it's also my main means of testing whether or not I'd like to actually pay for the game. Torrent, play for a few hours, if it's worth it, I'll consider buying. If it isn't, I'll just delete. It's wrong but trailers and demos only share so much information about a game to you. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
For example Kants categorical imperative. Maybe then you will get the idea of ETHICS. And guess what you can read the basics of his works at wikipedia FOR FREE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_Practical_Reason http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_of_Morals I hope this will enlighten you sooner or later that your way of thinking is naive and not ´really based on any ehtical concept. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On January 13 2012 01:30 Jojo131 wrote: Book look nice on my shelf/table, so I guess it serves a double purpose after I'm done reading with them. You know I just thought about it that way. Neeeat. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On January 13 2012 01:25 bluQ wrote: Dear OP, please educate yourself A BIT and READ something worth it. For example Kants categorical imperative. Maybe then you will get the idea of ETHICS. And guess what you can read the basics of his works at wikipedia FOR FREE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critique_of_Practical_Reason http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_of_Morals I hope this will enlighten you sooner or later that your way of thinking is naive and not ´really based on any ehtical concept. Again, there's no clear responsibility (based on the categorical imperative) for paying for _everything_ you read, just some of it. As long as _some_ people pay for stuff they read some or even most of it will survive. You can certainly optimize your actions in a way that can be generalized to the whole population without having to pay for every book you read or every movie you watch. | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
sitkyan "If you would honestly consider a book heavy (my heaviest book is around 4kg) you should really go to the gym more. " - (: I can only have so many disclaimer clauses in the OP before it gets too long for anyone to bother reading. I used to lug 500pg hardback and 1000pg textbooks around all the time, though they'd fit a lot better into my bag, and give me less back problems, if they were condensed. vnlegend "Well the paid books are usually better formatted, have ToC, etc. Some of the PDFs or mobi/epub files I've downloaded are missing stuff or have worse reading format. ... [compatability issues]" Tal "The proper formatting + table of contents is HUGE, and I think worth paying for." - See this is EXACTLY why I start threads like this, because this would never have crossed my mind as a concern. Someone complains to be about sound-quality of music or ugly graphics I go :bitch, please: . Even with low quality movies, I don't tolerate complaining about 'ugh the image quality's too low, I can't use/enjoy this' . But your point is a consideration only learnt through experience, that the quality of the production of an eBook is pivotal enough that it can make it unreadable or incomplete. VERY good point, yet another reason to get the HQ stuff. aers "I would probably buy everything if I could afford to, but I simply find myself reading too much that my budget wouldn't keep up. Shitty excuse, but that's just the way things are. " -See this is why I want to get an eReader, I believe it'll get me accustomed and hooked on reading regularly. -Libraries aren't free, they've got a cost structure. See, yet again, I hadn't though about it deep enough, thanks guys. Also creating a unified governmental open-access eBook system would be great, but then what do you do with all those authors that struggle. I know, the government pays them all for the rights to all their books, then they convert them all to eBooks and make them universally acessible, cool! SO many problems with this, who do you chose to be fair... and most importantly it acts like a subsidy (can't remember the term for it) where e.g. farmers in France have all their excess produce bought up by the government so they can reach market price. This is nice, but leads to problems of inefficency of labour (paid more than they should for their work) and large stores of un-used goods. Deleuze "I used to work for a University where the library was 95% digital and students had access to books on their e-readers. In theory this great - every student has a copy of the core text, no overdue books, no damage etc etc - however the reality was awful: publishers were very resistant to releasing e-books in a library format to students as they were effectively doing themselves out of sales, also technical faults routinely down prevent the whole system from functioning, as a result most students had no core texts for their first 1 and a half terms of study. Many were seeking legal action last time I heard, glad I left that amateurish organisation." -Sounds like Ubisoft's anal DRM and people not being able to play legal copies of 'From Dust' cause their gameplay was dependent on shitty infastructure; they had to be constantly connected to the server, then the server was too weak... -Going open-access is admirable, but it's also a priviledge not all can afford. -I've decided on a non-colour eReader, to be easy on the eyes. Even so, textbooks or nice glossy picture books/magazines (an atlas, anatomy handbook...) are much better in book form IMO. HotShizz "I am a starving artist writer type... I've been writing since I was young, I'm 25 now and trying to make a real go as an author. That said, I fully expect if I ever get a book published it will be in electronic format because it's less risk for the publisher (cheaper i.e. needs to sell less copies to be profitable). That said I hope it gets out there, if people download it illegally, fine as long as they read it and enjoy it ... If the entertainment is worth it, buy it. " -c ouf ca come opinion et mode de vie mec, vraiment, chapeaux Oh and bluQ, you're absolutely right I should read up on just about everything in Wikipedia, it's an amazing resource (: Usually it's a bit more effective if you synthesize the moral structure and apply it to the case, instead if just implying I have no notion of ethics. D'ya wanna TL;DR it for me, preasuuuuuuuu | ||
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Zren89
United States131 Posts
But seriously everyone should know that MANY of the books that you need for lit classes at uni and other things like that are readily available FOR FREE off of legal sites and even through Amazon. They fall under Fair Use, and are generally considered to be educational in nature and written before 1950's... there are alot of options for self-improvement, self-education that are not illegal, I think it would definitely be a good idea to look into those before "pirating" them. That being said, in a free market economy; yes everyone is going to spend as little as they can get away with spending on anything and everything books included. And if that price just so happens to be free, then that is the price that they will most likely pay. Opportunity being what it is. My personal opinion on physical books is that they are treasures! Long after the possible destruction of any kind of electrical technology, books and fragments of books will survive, and in a worse case scenario were all technology is gone from the planet they could offer a guide back to civilization and high-technology. They are static the only possible exception to this being that they are made of materials that do degrade over time with improper storage and handling. But I love books, I always have ever since I was read C.S. Lewis' "Chronicles of Narnia" they quite literally opened up the possiblity for entirely new worlds to exist in my mind and they fairly jumped out of the pages and into my imagination. So for me its a bit of a nostalgia thing but also its pragmatic. Books are amazing, digital or otherwise! | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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hummingbird23
Norway359 Posts
On January 13 2012 01:40 JustPassingBy wrote: So, if I follow your logic and add in to the fact that authors should be able to live off their publications, does that mean we need to get rid of all libraries? No. But if it really was that easy, why not just borrow the book from a library? Writing is already a hard and unstable career, don't make it harder to make things that YOU enjoy. When a legal copy is available, I always purchase my ebooks. If you don't, I have no qualms calling you a freeloader. It's not as if authors are all wiping their asses with hundred dollar bills. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On January 13 2012 01:34 hypercube wrote: Again, there's no clear responsibility (based on the categorical imperative) for paying for _everything_ you read, just some of it. As long as _some_ people pay for stuff they read some or even most of it will survive. You can certainly optimize your actions in a way that can be generalized to the whole population without having to pay for every book you read or every movie you watch. So? Did i say you need to pay for every book? Or did I imply that creating a maxime like Bittman is in no philoshopical view on ethics reasonable(besides crap like Egoism and stuff which is outdated due to the fact most of us agree on human rights)? On January 13 2012 01:34 bITt.mAN wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Damm I can't respond to everything there's too much <3 sitkyan "If you would honestly consider a book heavy (my heaviest book is around 4kg) you should really go to the gym more. " - (: I can only have so many disclaimer clauses in the OP before it gets too long for anyone to bother reading. I used to lug 500pg hardback and 1000pg textbooks around all the time, though they'd fit a lot better into my bag, and give me less back problems, if they were condensed. vnlegend "Well the paid books are usually better formatted, have ToC, etc. Some of the PDFs or mobi/epub files I've downloaded are missing stuff or have worse reading format. ... [compatability issues]" Tal "The proper formatting + table of contents is HUGE, and I think worth paying for." - See this is EXACTLY why I start threads like this, because this would never have crossed my mind as a concern. Someone complains to be about sound-quality of music or ugly graphics I go :bitch, please: . Even with low quality movies, I don't tolerate complaining about 'ugh the image quality's too low, I can't use/enjoy this' . But your point is a consideration only learnt through experience, that the quality of the production of an eBook is pivotal enough that it can make it unreadable or incomplete. VERY good point, yet another reason to get the HQ stuff. aers "I would probably buy everything if I could afford to, but I simply find myself reading too much that my budget wouldn't keep up. Shitty excuse, but that's just the way things are. " -See this is why I want to get an eReader, I believe it'll get me accustomed and hooked on reading regularly. -Libraries aren't free, they've got a cost structure. See, yet again, I hadn't though about it deep enough, thanks guys. Also creating a unified governmental open-access eBook system would be great, but then what do you do with all those authors that struggle. I know, the government pays them all for the rights to all their books, then they convert them all to eBooks and make them universally acessible, cool! SO many problems with this, who do you chose to be fair... and most importantly it acts like a subsidy (can't remember the term for it) where e.g. farmers in France have all their excess produce bought up by the government so they can reach market price. This is nice, but leads to problems of inefficency of labour (paid more than they should for their work) and large stores of un-used goods. Deleuze "I used to work for a University where the library was 95% digital and students had access to books on their e-readers. In theory this great - every student has a copy of the core text, no overdue books, no damage etc etc - however the reality was awful: publishers were very resistant to releasing e-books in a library format to students as they were effectively doing themselves out of sales, also technical faults routinely down prevent the whole system from functioning, as a result most students had no core texts for their first 1 and a half terms of study. Many were seeking legal action last time I heard, glad I left that amateurish organisation." -Sounds like Ubisoft's anal DRM and people not being able to play legal copies of 'From Dust' cause their gameplay was dependent on shitty infastructure; they had to be constantly connected to the server, then the server was too weak... -Going open-access is admirable, but it's also a priviledge not all can afford. -I've decided on a non-colour eReader, to be easy on the eyes. Even so, textbooks or nice glossy picture books/magazines (an atlas, anatomy handbook...) are much better in book form IMO. HotShizz "I am a starving artist writer type... I've been writing since I was young, I'm 25 now and trying to make a real go as an author. That said, I fully expect if I ever get a book published it will be in electronic format because it's less risk for the publisher (cheaper i.e. needs to sell less copies to be profitable). That said I hope it gets out there, if people download it illegally, fine as long as they read it and enjoy it ... If the entertainment is worth it, buy it. " -c ouf ca come opinion et mode de vie mec, vraiment, chapeaux Oh and bluQ, you're absolutely right I should read up on just about everything in Wikipedia, it's an amazing resource (: Usually it's a bit more effective if you synthesize the moral structure and apply it to the case, instead if just implying I have no notion of ethics. D'ya wanna TL;DR it for me, preasuuuuuuuu If you are too lazy to read the "TL;DR" on wiki I can't help you. And this comment of yours makes you even less serious in terms of arguing. If you are too lazy to read a summed up article on wiki, you really seem to not apreciate the work of such great authors. And if someday you will feel like you will be able to read trough 500 words maybe also take a look at Rawls; must be even more depressing to align your thoughts on his ethical view  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawls | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
Artrey "I would always pick a CD over a music download for the same price. Only to rip the CD afterwards and to put it into the shelve. But it feels that I am getting more out of it. If I delete or lose the virtual copy there is always the physical one and vice versa. It's a nice backup concept. I also like books as a collectable and I like the feeling and smell of paper. Yet my Kindle 4 is incredible cool and comfortable to read on as well. " " usage rights to the book" -Same here, that's a good way to put it, and for CD's I feel exactly the same way. If I want to support the artist I buy it with pride, I buy the right to use it. twofish "For example there are many classic physics text books which are still very relevant today, so there you can just go buy a cheap used book which is 20+ years old." -I've got one (Inorganic Chemistry) that was discarded from the library because the spine was coming off, FREE (: . Shouldn't then these classic go-to's be free. And about Journal articles, amen, so redic. Nevermind86 "a lot other Sci-fi books that have really changed my thoughts on a long list of things. LONG LIVE - There I fixed it for you ^^ See those are exactly the sort of books I want to get in the habit of reading, with an eReader. Yurie "Like an author releasing book 1 in a series to the public domain, hoping that sparks enough interest to get people into his/her site with direct revenue. There are authors trying this route out now (Monbade from New Federation being one example) and they don't seem to be doing all that well, though they have no real brand, thus not enough followers." interesting, and yes, you won't be getting money by file transfer like you do from HQ imigur pics. [b] IntoTheHeart "Yes, but it's also my main means of testing whether or not I'd like to actually pay for the game. Torrent, play for a few hours, if it's worth it, I'll consider buying. If it isn't, I'll just delete. It's wrong but trailers and demos only share so much information about a game to you." -I love demos, but demos for books SUCK. If I want to make an investment for something I want to keep in a collection, sure, but I don't have that much recreational money. Zren 89 "The new(er) books should be paid for, at least the ones where the author is still alive, its hard work writing anything, fiction or non-, and they should be compensated for their efforts! " -Should there be 'fair use' for paying for books, some sort of system where you don't have to pay as much/anything if the author is not really needing it (their decision). Yes, authors can make their material free to access but (see next bit). Also, once they're dead, should they get royalties (I dunno how the law works here). A nice example is the Tolkein foundation, where his nephew, the heir, is a conaisseur of different types of marijhuna and just lives off the royalties of his uncle... Does he deserve it!? Zren 89 "But seriously everyone should know that MANY of the books that you need for lit classes at uni and other things like that are readily available FOR FREE off of legal sites and even through Amazon. They fall under Fair Use, and are generally considered to be educational in nature and written before 1950's... there are alot of options for self-improvement, self-education that are not illegal, I think it would definitely be a good idea to look into those before "pirating" them." | ||
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Erucious
Norway393 Posts
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Blurio
Germany288 Posts
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Pesto
United States121 Posts
This is at least partially understandable when you actually need the distribution/advertising structure of a publishing company, but with viral information and free distribution made possible by the internet these corporations are dying out, as they should. It will never be the artists that are under threat from piracy; they are individuals and it is not hard to have a decent wage as a single person profiting from your own work. Will they get rich or not? I don't give a shit, and most of the good ones don't care either. That said; I don't pirate ebooks, because I can afford to pay for them. But I certainly believe that if you can't, you should be able to read anyway: chalk it up to free advertising basically. | ||
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On January 13 2012 03:13 Pesto wrote: As far as I'm concerned it is publishing companies that are doing the stealing: the same applies to the music industry - we have just grown so accustomed to this way of doing things that it doesn't seem that way. The artist to which all of the credit goes gets mere cents off the dollar for every purchase, while the company collects 95% of the profit. Then of the money that goes to the company, a disproportionate amount of it ends up in the top 5% employees in the hierarchy. This is at least partially understandable when you actually need the distribution/advertising structure of a publishing company, but with viral information and free distribution made possible by the internet these corporations are dying out, as they should. It will never be the artists that are under threat from piracy; they are individuals and it is not hard to have a decent wage as a single person profiting from your own work. Will they get rich or not? I don't give a shit, and most of the good ones don't care either. That said; I don't pirate ebooks, because I can afford to pay for them. But I certainly believe that if you can't, you should be able to read anyway: chalk it up to free advertising basically. This is so untrue. There were several authors who tried to sell their books somewhat on their own but sooner or later returned to the publishers because it was better from a financial view point. I guess you guys underestimate how hard it is to get your book to the read and I don't mean the logicstical part. Anyone of you ever thought about how Harry Potter became so popular? And on a side note; some of you guys should read trough some explanation what needs to be done to publish a book. It is not just writing; printing; selling. | ||
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
But for me, the issue isn't so black and white and I fall into a very vague grey area. Note that although I'm not loaded by any means I do have disposable income and can well afford to consume materials. The below is what I mean. To Pirate or not to Pirate? Pirate Experimental personal 1-time reading Want to learn a program, "______ for dummies" Singleplayer games Music Movies Etc Not to Pirate? Found out that the book/album/game/movie is actually pretty fuckin good and I know a friend who would love it --> instabuy (multiple copies for family) Whenever there is a "donate" thing for Paypal and I'm in favor of the the material/program/etc then I'll generously donate (i.e $50 for something that's readily free) just to show my appreciation There was a streamer for a sporting event that went for for months (via his multimedia system PPV) --> he had a "buy me a beer" which was 4-5 bux for his work/effort/PPV That being said, I thought of the ways I consume and found believe that piracy is nor good/evil but appears to be hyperselectivity of consumption due to the rise of the technological saavy generation. Most people outside of my birth cohort +5/-5, they are either extreme pirates or people who fear piracy like no tomorrow. They are both informed, but the attittudes towards it are completely different. Me? I'm in the middle, in all honesty I wouldn't even know if artist X made album Y if it weren't for piracy. Now after listening, it empowers the pirate to make a decision, you can either choose to have it for free or choose that it's worth something to you and you want to show your support. Same goes for books. Would I know that a certain book had existed if it weren't for piracy? Nope. But after reading it over, it gives me a choice. Was it a good enough book to gift? Was it a good book to keep on my bookshelf amongst my collection? Maybe it was just worth reading over once, or just plain bad. I might not have even finished it because it was not to my tastes. That to me, is a personal matter and couldn't care less of what others think. | ||
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Pesto
United States121 Posts
On January 13 2012 03:18 bluQ wrote: This is so untrue. There were several authors who tried to sell their books somewhat on their own but sooner or later returned to the publishers because it was better from a financial view point. I guess you guys underestimate how hard it is to get your book to the read and I don't mean the logicstical part. Anyone of you ever thought about how Harry Potter became so popular? And on a side note; some of you guys should read trough some explanation what needs to be done to publish a book. It is not just writing; printing; selling. It is true that having your book advertized by a huge corporation will always be more profitable, but I don't think having the potential of J.K Rowling status authors does anything to improve the quality of the work. As long as you are willing to accept the possibility of having a moderate income that will support your work and not become a billionaire from it, independent distribution should be fine? Keep in mind that the majority of authors are not successful. From a utilitarian perspective, more authors would benefit without the current production structure; as it simply adds another layer of gatekeepers between you and success beyond the quality of your work and sheer luck. I'm sure there is a great deal that goes in to publishing a physical book, but we are talking about ebooks here. And yes, I know how to make a PDF. Even one that has links to chapters and shit! | ||
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Manex
Australia156 Posts
TL;DR : If I can find it to torrent off the internet, why should I pay for (self-improvement) books? Self improvement books and admitting to piracy? i think youre doing it wrong...unless all the books are about honesty.. | ||
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silverbean
United States12 Posts
And i just picked up a 25$ hard cover copy of Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky. Not only is it beautifully bound and well published but it's my book and i can add whatever notations i want. As an english student (and a college student in general) i write in my books. a lot. I have books that contain my notes, thoughts and observations cover to cover, every page. I'd say this is the main reason why i'll never switch over to digital literature, but i think people generally appreciate books more than files. A worn in book that i've finished, that i've toted around in a backpack or laptop bag for maybe a month, that i've engrossed myself in for at least an hour a day every day sits seems so much more meaningful on my desk than a recently viewed file on my desktop. regardless of the differences i've suggested between ebooks and printed text, they are the same intellectual or creative work. Therefore stealing an ebook, in my opinion, would be the same thing as stealing a real book. When we have libraries, institutions of our society dedicated to the spread of free knowledge, i don't understand why anyone would undermine author, publishing company, and whoever else was involved in the production of a book by stealing electronic copies. libraries even have ebooks available for circulation now. In fact, i can go to my local OR college library and find books on how to learn Korean. Stealing (or torrenting) ebooks i think is simply laziness in the digital age. So in conclusion, i suggest you go support your local librarian and get a membership! | ||
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