Paid eBooks\Stealing Books

On January 13 2012 00:17 bITt.mAN wrote:
Mark of a good thread, too many constructive replies for me to handle at once (:
I took a firm stance (much more kopimist, one-sided, naieve and greedy than my own) and I'm very happy whith the replies, I've learned much more that way (:


I'll list quotes that stand out from the thread already (with replies):


Shickk "you don't have to own everything just because it's available somewhere"

Mobius_1 " read some excellent classics that are Public Domain, a lot of them shouldn't be missed"


vnlegend " If they go in the direction of Apple's iTunes store however, there's a good chance that more people will be willing to pay for quick access and better formatting."
- do you mean consistent high quality, range and availablity, fixed but generally low price .... + DRM ? I have no exposure to the Amazon eBook market, or any other, I though that's already been somewhat implemented.


eshlow "I pretty much expect piracy as an inevitability, but I would like to think that those who do pirate would eventually support me in some way so I can continue to write about stuff people like to hear"
- and if I like what you've written you're exactly the sort of person who I'd 'buy' from, as a sort of 'donation of thanks', and that I doubt (with all due respect) your works is readliy available for piracy.


Mindor " I have a bunch of books by my professors downloaded directly from sources they've given us. It's not out for everyone to see, certainly not findable with google, but they gave away books that are for sale at our university bookstore."
- see I'm the kind of guy who keeps those forever, or keeps the University-provided software for 'just a little longer than my stay'. I'm compiling all the lecture notes + digital course materials I'm given access into nice archives, for my personal use later, oor if any of my friends want to do some recreational Pure Maths or Inorganic Chemistry (:



sirkyan "There is no chance in hell I would be able to read as fast as I do reading a hardcover or pocket, on a pc (or ipad, etc). The information doesn't stick in the same way. When I'm reading physics or math I need a physical copy. It doesn't matter the weight, nor cost."
- For myself I plan getting that accustomed to reading eInk <:



IntoTheHeart "I only do it for authors who have passed away, or loan it from the library if the author is still alive." -interesting


SolHeiM "Piracy is not the same as stealing ... [explaination]"
hypercube "Please don't call it stealing. It's not even illegal in many countries as long as you don't share it yourself."
-Thank you for amending my ignorance of the nuance. I was also apt to throw around 'stealing' with 'legal' and had a bit of bait with 'morality'. If there are no immediate consequences or reprimands, 'stealing it' being illegal or not has no effect on my decsion. I know that's not your point, what I'm getting at is the decision should be influenced by how it affects the author, not by it being illegal in the law. Now we get into iffy territory, anyone feel free to tear my reasoning to shreds and purpousely misinterpret it, it's good for me.

On January 13 2012 00:41 bITt.mAN wrote:
Synwave "If you don't pay publishers to produce books they minimize business and pay less authors.
Hypertension "The real cost in the book is the author spending months writing the novel, and the publishing houses sifting through thousands of books/authors to find the good ones and market them.
Gingerninja "cost nothing for the publisher to distribute except for maybe paying an editor to check over"
Cabmium "The publisher takes a risk choosing a book to publish ... work with retailers"
- See I hadn't though of the scale of writing a book, or also all the people who the money goes to. Quite naieve of me :/ There's a lot more people in the process than just the author. You need to select the good ones, professionally edit, market it, ditribute through retailers.... this is all financial risk taken, and these are all costs that are covered by buying a book.


Cabmium "You are paying for the work the author put in"

-First of all, domo arigato, thank you for your very well put and reasoned response, I've learned a lot and have been well taught, thank you. -the work- in itself justifies paying for it, that's enough, you're right.

Cabmium "Those who distribute books for free CHOOSE to do so because they are able. The authors decide whether to release their books for free, NOT you."
-This is the big point. It's not in my power or right to decide "ok, I say your work isn't worth paying for, so give it to me for free".


Cabmium "[free worldwide learning, yaay!] This is really another topic, and you said you wanted to avoid this."
-Really, THANK YOU for honouring my request (and reading the OP). Guys, I've gotta hand it to him, THIS is how you post REALLY WELL on an internet fourm, you honour me.

Cabmium "Also, books will never go away."
-A time capsule of a USB key is about as 'permanant' of eBook storage as you can get IMO. No way that'll last 2000 years, nor have ancient Greek texts, they were continually re-copied, as with the bible by monks. Geez I sound so kopimist :E Yes there are books hundreds of years old, the ones made cheap now aren't as good quality and certainly don't last as long. But good old fashioned ink on paper is still much more durable and long-lasting than software and electronics, which evlove so quickly bakcwards compatability can't be ensured forever. In 500 years, as long as you can read the language, you can read the same book, but a USB key with today's data storage? No way, it'll be and antique, too different.
Having a solid book on a shelf or in a box somewhere is totally more sound way to store the investment, you dig up WAAY old books all the time. But once you've read them once, twice .... what worth is left to them? There are movements of putting used books in plastic sleves and leaving them on park benches, to pass onto the next person. What's the use of a physical book once you're done reading it, apart from having it for future reference?

On January 13 2012 01:34 bITt.mAN wrote:
Damm I can't respond to everything there's too much <3

sitkyan "If you would honestly consider a book heavy (my heaviest book is around 4kg) you should really go to the gym more. "
- (: I can only have so many disclaimer clauses in the OP before it gets too long for anyone to bother reading. I used to lug 500pg hardback and 1000pg textbooks around all the time, though they'd fit a lot better into my bag, and give me less back problems, if they were condensed.


vnlegend "Well the paid books are usually better formatted, have ToC, etc. Some of the PDFs or mobi/epub files I've downloaded are missing stuff or have worse reading format. ... [compatability issues]"
Tal "The proper formatting + table of contents is HUGE, and I think worth paying for."
- See this is EXACTLY why I start threads like this, because this would never have crossed my mind as a concern. Someone complains to be about sound-quality of music or ugly graphics I go :bitch, please: . Even with low quality movies, I don't tolerate complaining about 'ugh the image quality's too low, I can't use/enjoy this' .
But your point is a consideration only learnt through experience, that the quality of the production of an eBook is pivotal enough that it can make it unreadable or incomplete. VERY good point, yet another reason to get the HQ stuff.



aers "I would probably buy everything if I could afford to, but I simply find myself reading too much that my budget wouldn't keep up. Shitty excuse, but that's just the way things are. "
-See this is why I want to get an eReader, I believe it'll get me accustomed and hooked on reading regularly.


-Libraries aren't free, they've got a cost structure. See, yet again, I hadn't though about it deep enough, thanks guys. Also creating a unified governmental open-access eBook system would be great, but then what do you do with all those authors that struggle. I know, the government pays them all for the rights to all their books, then they convert them all to eBooks and make them universally acessible, cool! SO many problems with this, who do you chose to be fair... and most importantly it acts like a subsidy (can't remember the term for it) where e.g. farmers in France have all their excess produce bought up by the government so they can reach market price. This is nice, but leads to problems of inefficency of labour (paid more than they should for their work) and large stores of un-used goods.


Deleuze "I used to work for a University where the library was 95% digital and students had access to books on their e-readers. In theory this great - every student has a copy of the core text, no overdue books, no damage etc etc - however the reality was awful: publishers were very resistant to releasing e-books in a library format to students as they were effectively doing themselves out of sales, also technical faults routinely down prevent the whole system from functioning, as a result most students had no core texts for their first 1 and a half terms of study. Many were seeking legal action last time I heard, glad I left that amateurish organisation."
-Sounds like Ubisoft's anal DRM and people not being able to play legal copies of 'From Dust' cause their gameplay was dependent on shitty infastructure; they had to be constantly connected to the server, then the server was too weak...


-Going open-access is admirable, but it's also a priviledge not all can afford.

-I've decided on a non-colour eReader, to be easy on the eyes. Even so, textbooks or nice glossy picture books/magazines (an atlas, anatomy handbook...) are much better in book form IMO.



HotShizz "I am a starving artist writer type... I've been writing since I was young, I'm 25 now and trying to make a real go as an author. That said, I fully expect if I ever get a book published it will be in electronic format because it's less risk for the publisher (cheaper i.e. needs to sell less copies to be profitable). That said I hope it gets out there, if people download it illegally, fine as long as they read it and enjoy it ... If the entertainment is worth it, buy it. "
-c ouf ca come opinion et mode de vie mec, vraiment, chapeaux




Oh and bluQ, you're absolutely right I should read up on just about everything in Wikipedia, it's an amazing resource (: Usually it's a bit more effective if you synthesize the moral structure and apply it to the case, instead if just implying I have no notion of ethics. D'ya wanna TL;DR it for me, preasuuuuuuuu

Just about a perfect summary (:

Artrey "I would always pick a CD over a music download for the same price. Only to rip the CD afterwards and to put it into the shelve. But it feels that I am getting more out of it. If I delete or lose the virtual copy there is always the physical one and vice versa. It's a nice backup concept. I also like books as a collectable and I like the feeling and smell of paper. Yet my Kindle 4 is incredible cool and comfortable to read on as well. " " usage rights to the book"
-Same here, that's a good way to put it, and for CD's I feel exactly the same way. If I want to support the artist I buy it with pride, I buy the right to use it.


twofish "For example there are many classic physics text books which are still very relevant today, so there you can just go buy a cheap used book which is 20+ years old."
-I've got one (Inorganic Chemistry) that was discarded from the library because the spine was coming off, FREE (: . Shouldn't then these classic go-to's be free. And about Journal articles, amen, so redic.


Nevermind86 "a lot other Sci-fi books that have really changed my thoughts on a long list of things. LONG LIVE PIRACY READING."
- There I fixed it for you ^^ See those are exactly the sort of books I want to get in the habit of reading, with an eReader.



Yurie "Like an author releasing book 1 in a series to the public domain, hoping that sparks enough interest to get people into his/her site with direct revenue. There are authors trying this route out now (Monbade from New Federation being one example) and they don't seem to be doing all that well, though they have no real brand, thus not enough followers." interesting, and yes, you won't be getting money by file transfer like you do from HQ imigur pics.


[b] IntoTheHeart "Yes, but it's also my main means of testing whether or not I'd like to actually pay for the game. Torrent, play for a few hours, if it's worth it, I'll consider buying. If it isn't, I'll just delete.
It's wrong but trailers and demos only share so much information about a game to you."
-I love demos, but demos for books SUCK. If I want to make an investment for something I want to keep in a collection, sure, but I don't have that much recreational money.


Zren 89 "The new(er) books should be paid for, at least the ones where the author is still alive, its hard work writing anything, fiction or non-, and they should be compensated for their efforts! "
-Should there be 'fair use' for paying for books, some sort of system where you don't have to pay as much/anything if the author is not really needing it (their decision). Yes, authors can make their material free to access but (see next bit). Also, once they're dead, should they get royalties (I dunno how the law works here). A nice example is the Tolkein foundation, where his nephew, the heir, is a conaisseur of different types of marijhuna and just lives off the royalties of his uncle... Does he deserve it!?

Zren 89 "But seriously everyone should know that MANY of the books that you need for lit classes at uni and other things like that are readily available FOR FREE off of legal sites and even through Amazon. They fall under Fair Use, and are generally considered to be educational in nature and written before 1950's... there are alot of options for self-improvement, self-education that are not illegal, I think it would definitely be a good idea to look into those before "pirating" them."