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On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:
They also knew that they weren't going to sell a full rule book to each player, and accounted for that. Same for DnD books. They expect you to buy your pieces for the full experience.
I've been watching this discussion for a few pages now but I have to step in here and say - what makes you think this isn't being done for video games? High prices to compensate for lost sales I mean.
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Damn pirates always fucking up with the little guys media giants Activision and EA. Lol.
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On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either.
It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now.
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On December 01 2011 04:45 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:
They also knew that they weren't going to sell a full rule book to each player, and accounted for that. Same for DnD books. They expect you to buy your pieces for the full experience. I've been watching this discussion for a few pages now but I have to step in here and say - what makes you think this isn't being done for video games? High prices to compensate for lost sales I mean.
Yeah, and I'd much prefer if my DnD DMG didn't cost an arm and a leg.
Like I said in a previous post, if there were less pirates, there'd be lower prices, and less need for pirates. But no one wants to put up with the inbetween stage of buying games and proving to developers that they can actually lower the price and still make a profit.
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On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either.
Honestly, I could give a f*** whether or not someone pirates. I'm just annoyed that they're walking around thinking that they're the good guys and nothing they're doing is wrong. It's wrong, and if you choose to do it, you're doing something illegal. If you're ok with that, accept it. Don't try to push the idea that pirating is saving the industry or making humanity better or some bollocks.
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On December 01 2011 04:43 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:33 plated.rawr wrote:
Yes, piracy grows with the market, but the market would never grow to its size WITHOUT the piracy - or, at least, not as fast as it did. I agree with you that pirating would be an issue if the effect of pirating and market growth would equate to less sales than no pirating and original, non-grown market, but this is obviously not the case. Look at Blizzard's growth from the SNES titles of Blackthorn, Rock 'n Roll racing and Lost Vikings (fine, PC and amiga too, but yea) to Diablo to modern day SC2, WoW and imminent Diablo 3. A lot of it has grown out of quality games, surely, but a lot has grown simply because there's so much many more gamers in the pool of potential buyers nowadays than it were back then.
Is piracy the only catalyst? Of course not. But I'd dare say it's been quite significant in turning computer and console games into such a prominent media representation as it is these days. I think that you're greatly overestimating the positive effect that piracy has had on the market. Quality speaks for itself, and the industry would be doing just as well as it is today without piracy. The publicity generated by word of mouth would occur without illegal copies of the game being made available.
And I think you're underestimating it. Word by mouth and the power of leaders of opinion to shape the public conciousness is far stronger than mediacarried advertisements, at least if we're to follow Lazarsfeld's two-step hypothesis.
http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=rElW8D0D8gYC&oi=fnd&pg=PR1&dq=Paul Felix Lazarsfeld two-step hypothesis&ots=OCtW3Uk2dK&sig=6ouWgPI1tACDiMSN-pzuM4OODXI#v=onepage&q&f=false
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On November 30 2011 22:24 Interloper wrote:
Many people who pirate do so because they want to try a game out. If they enjoy the game, they will buy it too support the developer. 4,5 million downloads becomes a useless figure since you can not in any way know how many of those 4,5 million purchased the game afterwards. I feel that piracy is a good way to get rid of shitty developers how make crappy games only for the sake of making money (Well all developers want to make money ofc, but i hope you get my point). Good developers get the money they need and then some. Piracy will not be the end of gaming.
this is what i do. and most of the time the games are shit so i save my money and complaint against the company for making me waste my cash.
same deal with music...i always got my stuff from pirating 1st, but now i buy everything Devin Townsend puts out for example...same deal with Sevendust
On December 01 2011 04:47 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now.
Exactly, just like SC2. No one has EVER been in a ladder game in sc2 that wasn't running a copy with a CDkey attached to it.
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On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:33 Zocat wrote:On December 01 2011 03:50 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:40 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:10 InterestingName wrote:
Piracy is more of an individual issue. Many of these supposed illegal downloads were made by low budget gamers who never would have been able to buy the $60 dollar titles. For me, it is often hard to find big titles in stores directly after release. Not only that but being a student i rarely have $60 to throw down at release time for a game that i genuinely want to play and pay for. I downloaded Skyrim, and only just bought it yesterday, more than two weeks after. Although i only pay for maybe 1/10th of the games i have illegally downloaded, most of them end up being utter shit that the developer should not be rewarded for. Any want to give me their outrage about how much "Big Rigs" was pirated? The idea of a "low-budget gamer" seems to be the problem here. If something is outside your budget, it shouldn't be your hobby. I want to have my own helicopter as a hobby. I can't afford one. I don't steal one. Simple. "I want this, so I'll steal it since I can't afford it" isn't justification. It's childish behavior. it's actually more like, "I have all the parts needed to build a helicopter in my back yard. but I don't know how to go about it. hm, here's what i'll do, I'll download some instructions on how to manifacture a helicopter so I can build it myself, rather than having to pay an inflated price for something that I already have all the necessary components to enjoy". many gamers are younger than 18, living with their parents, and thus not responsible for their own economic status. in norway, a 16 year old is discouraged from working. (apart from summer jobs.) further, many gamers live in development countries, where computer games happen to be one of the very few things not price-adjusted for the regular wage in said country. if every single pirate was a 20+ year old living in a western country and capable but too lazy to get a job, then absolutely, your blanket statements might have a semblance of truth to them, but when you look at your statements from like, a "reality" perspective, then they end up just being.. bitter and resentful. That's not even close, though. You don't have the parts for the game, you don't have a framework. You get all the software when you buy/pirate it. If anything, you have a helipad but no helicopter. The point is, getting a hobby illegally because you can't buy it legally is not a justifiable by any means. It's superfluous to your life, unnecessary, and only there for enjoyment. You won't die if you don't get a game, it's not like you're stealing food to stay alive another day. You're stealing entertainment because you can't afford it/don't want to buy it. You would survive just fine without games. my helicopter example is less stupid than your helicopter example, and more in line with what piracy is than what your methaphor seems to indicate that you think it is. Neither is perfect, but then again there is no corollary to piracy other than, like, music or movie piracy. You never argued the actual point, though. A hobby you can't afford is one you shouldn't have. As a kid, my parents were middle class. I wanted to play Warhammer 40k so badly, but I could never afford a full army and all the necessary books. So I chose a different hobby. It's a selfish, childish act to pick a hobby and ignore the fact that it's outside of your realm of cost, and just illegally acquire it instead. We bought the army books. Then we bought one rule book. Then we played with proxys. So according to you we played WH illegally? Again, not a perfect analogy for video gaming. But you're not using official pieces. It's not stealing, it's not even illegal. Pirating a game is analagous (analagous, not the same as) to stealing a full army and using the official pieces without paying for it.
Of course we used official pieces o_O Chaos hounds just became DE Dark Riders, when the Chaos player wasnt present.
But according to you it was a "selfish childish act to pick a hobby and ignore the fact that it was outside of our cost".
We knew we couldnt afford 2000p+ armies for years (over time we have them) but we still picked that hobby. According to you selfish & childish.
It's actually very similiar to video games. You plan to buy it later - or when it's cheaper (we bought a lot of cheap earlier edition minis). But you still want to experience the full experience _now_ - be it the full game or using every unit/model the army book offers.
Imho you just cannot throw all pirates into one pot. I personally will never understand people who will complete a game and then say "What a shitgame, I had no fun, glad I didnt pay for it - so not worth it".
On December 01 2011 04:48 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:45 Serelitz wrote:On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:
They also knew that they weren't going to sell a full rule book to each player, and accounted for that. Same for DnD books. They expect you to buy your pieces for the full experience. I've been watching this discussion for a few pages now but I have to step in here and say - what makes you think this isn't being done for video games? High prices to compensate for lost sales I mean. Yeah, and I'd much prefer if my DnD DMG didn't cost an arm and a leg. Like I said in a previous post, if there were less pirates, there'd be lower prices, and less need for pirates. But no one wants to put up with the inbetween stage of buying games and proving to developers that they can actually lower the price and still make a profit.
Sorry but that's just plain wrong. With digital downloads we would have the _perfect_ way to lower prices.
I dont know for the video game industry, but I know for a fact that amazon is taking ~50% (exact figure is subject to change of course) in the book sector.
If you buy a DMG from amazon which costs 50$, 25$ will go to amazon and 25$ to the "creator".
I honestly think video game distributors take a similiar margin. Now with digital downloads it would've been perfect to lower the prices (since there's no distributor taking his cut). But the prices on the digital platforms are higher then ever.
I therefore think they would never lower prices when there are less pirates.
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On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:33 Zocat wrote:On December 01 2011 03:50 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:40 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:10 InterestingName wrote:
Piracy is more of an individual issue. Many of these supposed illegal downloads were made by low budget gamers who never would have been able to buy the $60 dollar titles. For me, it is often hard to find big titles in stores directly after release. Not only that but being a student i rarely have $60 to throw down at release time for a game that i genuinely want to play and pay for. I downloaded Skyrim, and only just bought it yesterday, more than two weeks after. Although i only pay for maybe 1/10th of the games i have illegally downloaded, most of them end up being utter shit that the developer should not be rewarded for. Any want to give me their outrage about how much "Big Rigs" was pirated? The idea of a "low-budget gamer" seems to be the problem here. If something is outside your budget, it shouldn't be your hobby. I want to have my own helicopter as a hobby. I can't afford one. I don't steal one. Simple. "I want this, so I'll steal it since I can't afford it" isn't justification. It's childish behavior. it's actually more like, "I have all the parts needed to build a helicopter in my back yard. but I don't know how to go about it. hm, here's what i'll do, I'll download some instructions on how to manifacture a helicopter so I can build it myself, rather than having to pay an inflated price for something that I already have all the necessary components to enjoy". many gamers are younger than 18, living with their parents, and thus not responsible for their own economic status. in norway, a 16 year old is discouraged from working. (apart from summer jobs.) further, many gamers live in development countries, where computer games happen to be one of the very few things not price-adjusted for the regular wage in said country. if every single pirate was a 20+ year old living in a western country and capable but too lazy to get a job, then absolutely, your blanket statements might have a semblance of truth to them, but when you look at your statements from like, a "reality" perspective, then they end up just being.. bitter and resentful. That's not even close, though. You don't have the parts for the game, you don't have a framework. You get all the software when you buy/pirate it. If anything, you have a helipad but no helicopter. The point is, getting a hobby illegally because you can't buy it legally is not a justifiable by any means. It's superfluous to your life, unnecessary, and only there for enjoyment. You won't die if you don't get a game, it's not like you're stealing food to stay alive another day. You're stealing entertainment because you can't afford it/don't want to buy it. You would survive just fine without games. my helicopter example is less stupid than your helicopter example, and more in line with what piracy is than what your methaphor seems to indicate that you think it is. Neither is perfect, but then again there is no corollary to piracy other than, like, music or movie piracy. You never argued the actual point, though. A hobby you can't afford is one you shouldn't have. As a kid, my parents were middle class. I wanted to play Warhammer 40k so badly, but I could never afford a full army and all the necessary books. So I chose a different hobby. It's a selfish, childish act to pick a hobby and ignore the fact that it's outside of your realm of cost, and just illegally acquire it instead. We bought the army books. Then we bought one rule book. Then we played with proxys. So according to you we played WH illegally? Again, not a perfect analogy for video gaming. But you're not using official pieces. It's not stealing, it's not even illegal. Pirating a game is analagous (analagous, not the same as) to stealing a full army and using the official pieces without paying for it. They also knew that they weren't going to sell a full rule book to each player, and accounted for that. Same for DnD books. They expect you to buy your pieces for the full experience. Again, gaming is an experience. You can watch someone play a game on a stream or something legally, but it's not the same as actually playing the game.
Except that PLAYING Warhammer is an experience. It's actually quite an accurate analogy when it comes to GAME of Warhammer. Although, they DID purchase the books, which are the gateway to the actual game experience, so really would have done nothing wrong. The game-pieces themselves are geared more towards model hobbyists. And the only analogy that would work for the illegal acquisition of the game-pieces would be if someone were to somehow make their own casts of the pieces (say... they borrowed one of each from a friend), then created their own pieces at home using their own base-materials.
Now, if they had stolen the books, or an even better analogy, if someone had photocopied the books, then left the hard-copy on the shelf and walked out with a free photocopied version, THEN we'd be getting into a situation analogous to game piracy.
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On December 01 2011 04:45 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:
They also knew that they weren't going to sell a full rule book to each player, and accounted for that. Same for DnD books. They expect you to buy your pieces for the full experience. I've been watching this discussion for a few pages now but I have to step in here and say - what makes you think this isn't being done for video games? High prices to compensate for lost sales I mean.
Except the higher prices drive piracy too. A bit of a catch 22, but if the "poor" companies are willing to punish their customer base for something they didn't do... well, I got no sympathy for that.
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On December 01 2011 04:47 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now.
Impossible huh? I think you will be surprised...
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Alot of justification for pirating in here.
We live in a culture of something for nothing and me me me.
I love pc games and console games, but when I hear of PC elitists crying about how a game was developed mostly for console like skyrim and not tapping into the true potential of PC and how consoles are ruining pc gaming etc, that just makes me laugh.
More and more developers will primiarly develop for consoles, they want to make money not lose money.
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On December 01 2011 04:53 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:47 Klondikebar wrote:On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now. Impossible huh? I think you will be surprised...
How many people played online SC2 without a key?
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On December 01 2011 04:50 plated.rawr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:43 Nemireck wrote:On December 01 2011 04:33 plated.rawr wrote:
Yes, piracy grows with the market, but the market would never grow to its size WITHOUT the piracy - or, at least, not as fast as it did. I agree with you that pirating would be an issue if the effect of pirating and market growth would equate to less sales than no pirating and original, non-grown market, but this is obviously not the case. Look at Blizzard's growth from the SNES titles of Blackthorn, Rock 'n Roll racing and Lost Vikings (fine, PC and amiga too, but yea) to Diablo to modern day SC2, WoW and imminent Diablo 3. A lot of it has grown out of quality games, surely, but a lot has grown simply because there's so much many more gamers in the pool of potential buyers nowadays than it were back then.
Is piracy the only catalyst? Of course not. But I'd dare say it's been quite significant in turning computer and console games into such a prominent media representation as it is these days. I think that you're greatly overestimating the positive effect that piracy has had on the market. Quality speaks for itself, and the industry would be doing just as well as it is today without piracy. The publicity generated by word of mouth would occur without illegal copies of the game being made available. And I think you're underestimating it. Word by mouth and the power of leaders of opinion to shape the public conciousness is far stronger than mediacarried advertisements, at least if we're to follow Lazarsfeld's two-step hypothesis. http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=rElW8D0D8gYC&oi=fnd&pg=PR1&dq=Paul Felix Lazarsfeld two-step hypothesis&ots=OCtW3Uk2dK&sig=6ouWgPI1tACDiMSN-pzuM4OODXI#v=onepage&q&f=false
You don't need piracy to generate word of mouth. You're overestimating the effect of word of mouth generated by piracy is what I'm saying.
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Yea I'll pay 60 dollars for the game if it's good. If it has dlc that racks the game up to 75-90 dollars, it can kiss my ass. Also games with DRM piss me off. I buy games legitimately, but if the DRM forces me to re-connect, error, re-connect, error, don't expect me to buy the sequels. That, or it's going into the blender.
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On December 01 2011 04:50 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. Honestly, I could give a f*** whether or not someone pirates. I'm just annoyed that they're walking around thinking that they're the good guys and nothing they're doing is wrong. It's wrong, and if you choose to do it, you're doing something illegal. If you're ok with that, accept it. Don't try to push the idea that pirating is saving the industry or making humanity better or some bollocks.
Who are 'they' and why would they all be walking around thinking that they are the good guys and are saving the industry? Who are you referring to? The millions of identical people who pirate games every year?
I think you've made them into an enemy and you take their actions too personally. Most people do things that are 'wrong' every day. Most people find ways to justify some of those things.
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On December 01 2011 04:54 jj33 wrote:
Alot of justification for pirating in here.
We live in a culture of something for nothing and me me me.
I love pc games and console games, but when I hear of PC elitists crying about how a game was developed mostly for console like skyrim and not tapping into the true potential of PC and how consoles are ruining pc gaming etc, that just makes me laugh.
More and more developers will primiarly develop for consoles, they want to make money not lose money.
Console games are pirated too. Pirated ALOT more than you think they are.
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On December 01 2011 04:52 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:37 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 04:33 Zocat wrote:On December 01 2011 03:50 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:40 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 01 2011 03:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 03:10 InterestingName wrote:
Piracy is more of an individual issue. Many of these supposed illegal downloads were made by low budget gamers who never would have been able to buy the $60 dollar titles. For me, it is often hard to find big titles in stores directly after release. Not only that but being a student i rarely have $60 to throw down at release time for a game that i genuinely want to play and pay for. I downloaded Skyrim, and only just bought it yesterday, more than two weeks after. Although i only pay for maybe 1/10th of the games i have illegally downloaded, most of them end up being utter shit that the developer should not be rewarded for. Any want to give me their outrage about how much "Big Rigs" was pirated? The idea of a "low-budget gamer" seems to be the problem here. If something is outside your budget, it shouldn't be your hobby. I want to have my own helicopter as a hobby. I can't afford one. I don't steal one. Simple. "I want this, so I'll steal it since I can't afford it" isn't justification. It's childish behavior. it's actually more like, "I have all the parts needed to build a helicopter in my back yard. but I don't know how to go about it. hm, here's what i'll do, I'll download some instructions on how to manifacture a helicopter so I can build it myself, rather than having to pay an inflated price for something that I already have all the necessary components to enjoy". many gamers are younger than 18, living with their parents, and thus not responsible for their own economic status. in norway, a 16 year old is discouraged from working. (apart from summer jobs.) further, many gamers live in development countries, where computer games happen to be one of the very few things not price-adjusted for the regular wage in said country. if every single pirate was a 20+ year old living in a western country and capable but too lazy to get a job, then absolutely, your blanket statements might have a semblance of truth to them, but when you look at your statements from like, a "reality" perspective, then they end up just being.. bitter and resentful. That's not even close, though. You don't have the parts for the game, you don't have a framework. You get all the software when you buy/pirate it. If anything, you have a helipad but no helicopter. The point is, getting a hobby illegally because you can't buy it legally is not a justifiable by any means. It's superfluous to your life, unnecessary, and only there for enjoyment. You won't die if you don't get a game, it's not like you're stealing food to stay alive another day. You're stealing entertainment because you can't afford it/don't want to buy it. You would survive just fine without games. my helicopter example is less stupid than your helicopter example, and more in line with what piracy is than what your methaphor seems to indicate that you think it is. Neither is perfect, but then again there is no corollary to piracy other than, like, music or movie piracy. You never argued the actual point, though. A hobby you can't afford is one you shouldn't have. As a kid, my parents were middle class. I wanted to play Warhammer 40k so badly, but I could never afford a full army and all the necessary books. So I chose a different hobby. It's a selfish, childish act to pick a hobby and ignore the fact that it's outside of your realm of cost, and just illegally acquire it instead. We bought the army books. Then we bought one rule book. Then we played with proxys. So according to you we played WH illegally? Again, not a perfect analogy for video gaming. But you're not using official pieces. It's not stealing, it's not even illegal. Pirating a game is analagous (analagous, not the same as) to stealing a full army and using the official pieces without paying for it. Of course we used official pieces o_O Chaos hounds just became DE Dark Riders, when the Chaos player wasnt present. But according to you it was a "selfish childish act to pick a hobby and ignore the fact that it was outside of our cost". We knew we couldnt afford 2000p+ armies for years (over time we have them) but we still picked that hobby. According to you selfish & childish. It's actually very similiar to video games. You plan to buy it later - or when it's cheaper (we bought a lot of cheap earlier edition minis). But you still want to experience the full experience _now_ - be it the full game or using every unit/model the army book offers. Imho you just cannot throw all pirates into one pot. I personally will never understand people who will complete a game and then say "What a shitgame, I had no fun, glad I didnt pay for it - so not worth it".
In that case, no, you still didn't do anything wrong. You still paid the company, you still supported Games Workshop. You just played a modified version of it. I couldn't afford Halo Reach, so I just played 3 with settings made to make it more Reach like.
Playing with proxies is not the same as pirating by a long shot. It's not really analogous in any way.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:56 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:53 Interloper wrote:On December 01 2011 04:47 Klondikebar wrote:On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now. Impossible huh? I think you will be surprised... How many people played online SC2 without a key?
A good amount. Pirate servers do exist.
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On December 01 2011 04:53 Interloper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:47 Klondikebar wrote:On December 01 2011 04:44 jtype wrote:
OK, lets get this straight. To those of you who think piracy is harming the industry. Actually, let me rephrase that. To those of you who think piracy in no way helps the industry - Do you really think that if it was as clear cut as you think it is and every developer 'knew' that piracy was only bad for the industry and was ruining it, that we'd be able to pirate games at all?
Just throwing this out there, as I think too many people think this issue is more clear-cut than it is. Developers aren't the good guys and pirates aren't the bad guys. The reverse is also not true. Don't imagine that DRM is what you're told to believe it is. Don't imagine that piracy is what you've been taught to believe it is.
Personally, I buy my games, but I don't think that piracy the evil that some of you think it is and I don't think developers are stupid enough to think that either. It will be 100% impossible to pirate Diablo III since the entire game is emulated on the Blizzard servers. The only reason we've been able to pirate games up to this point is because developers and publishers haven't had the technology to keep us from doing so. They have the technology now. Impossible huh? I think you will be surprised...
The hackers will have to emulate the battle.net system and then some how construct files that don't exist outside the Blizzard servers.
You know how MMO's are never truly pirated? Do you know why the Starcraft 2 single player campaign was cracked on day 2 of release but a good multiplayer hack has yet to see the light of day? Everything is managed by the server, not your computer.
Diablo III is an MMO disguised as a single player game.
http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/diablo-iii-will-not-be-cracked-at-launch-stop-deluding-yourself-you-fools
Edit: If posting links to other articles isn't allowed I apologize, I just want to back up my statements with a source.
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EPT
