EPTMaking a clear cut judgement on the morality is unreasonable; as Risen pointed out before we just don't know enough. And, as such we should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the accused. (Joe)
Jerry Sandusky and PSU - Page 15
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tronix
United States95 Posts
Making a clear cut judgement on the morality is unreasonable; as Risen pointed out before we just don't know enough. And, as such we should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the accused. (Joe) | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:09 tronix wrote: This is where any and all arguement on the subject breaks down. We do not know exactly the words that were used in these scenarios. If JoePa comes out and says "yeah he used the word rape." I agree JoePa should fuckin burn. But if it comes down to "Well I remember him saying...." or "He definitely did not use those words...." Making a clear cut judgement on the morality is unreasonable; as Risen pointed out before we just don't know enough. And, as such we should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the accused. (Joe) What words describing a situation between a 60 year old man and 10 year old boy naked in a shower would exempt Paterno from " fuckin burn"ing as you say? | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:07 Risen wrote: JoePa wasn't told about a sexual assault involving anal intercourse. He was told about horsing around and touching. Jibba how do you know JoePa knew why Sandusky was let go in 98? You don't. More speculation. Stop speculating if you want to sway anyone. Your red status gives you a level of credibility, but just because you say X happened doesn't mean I'll believe you just because of your status. It was his fucking football program. Do you really think he didn't know why his defensive coordinator was forced to resign? Holy shit, I can't take this anymore. | ||
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TaylorGangOrDie
United States104 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:09 tronix wrote: This is where any and all arguement on the subject breaks down. We do not know exactly the words that were used in these scenarios. If JoePa comes out and says "yeah he used the word rape." I agree JoePa should fuckin burn. But if it comes down to "Well I remember him saying...." or "He definitely did not use those words...." Making a clear cut judgement on the morality is unreasonable; as Risen pointed out before we just don't know enough. And, as such we should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the accused. (Joe) Whoa dude. You have to remember the guy who witnessed the "Rape" turned his back on it and went to go call his dad, Then told JoePa the next day. The guy who witnessed the rape should be fired. Not JoePa... You have to remember JoePa thought it was "Fondling/Touching/Horsing around" so Joe told the director of activities and that was that... There is no reason to hate Joe Paterno for what he did... Yes he should have done more but he didn't know it was an actual "rape" | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:09 Hawk wrote: I'm gonna go with the dude that testified before a jury under the threat of prejury over JoePa saying nuhuh on that one You act as if no one has committed perjury before. Remember this same guy who is now saying he did tell Paterno in explicit language is also the same man who didn't go to the police when he witnessed the act, and also the same man who still has his job where Paterno does not. I find it pretty reasonable he was asked to use more explicit terms in his testimony because let's face it, it was years ago, and Paterno is quite old. It'll be quite easy to use his age as a way to falsify his recollection of the conversation. Also, when describing the incident, was McQueary asked what he saw or what he told to Paterno? These are two completely different things | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:09 Hawk wrote: I'm gonna go with the dude that testified before a jury under the threat of prejury over JoePa saying nuhuh on that one I'm going to go with the three people who testified before a jury under threat of perjury over Mike McQueary who had a lot to gain with the loss of the head coach. Who's the interim head coach at the moment? OH HEY LOOK! We can BOTH make useless speculations! I figured it out. This has all been a giant plot by Mike McQueary to remove Paterno as head coach. He laid the seeds in 2002 after learning about Sandusky's 1998 firing. He then hired a wrestling coach, a janitor, a mom, and various children to lie about being abused. Sounds legit to me, and everything fits SO WELL! | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:12 Jibba wrote: It was his fucking football program. Do you really think he didn't know why his defensive coordinator was forced to resign? Holy shit, I can't take this anymore. Are you aware that it would be perfectly reasonable for JoePa to not be informed, and never be told? Holy shit, I can't take this anymore. | ||
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Pacifist
Israel1683 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:07 Risen wrote: JoePa wasn't told about a sexual assault involving anal intercourse. He was told about horsing around and touching. Jibba how do you know JoePa knew why Sandusky was let go in 98? You don't. More speculation. Stop speculating if you want to sway anyone. Your red status gives you a level of credibility, but just because you say X happened doesn't mean I'll believe you just because of your status. ..... He built the football program himself. Do you REALLY think that he (i) did not know why his own DC was let go, and if he didn't know, (ii) he didn't care to ask? Common sense, my friend. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:12 Jibba wrote: It was his fucking football program. Do you really think he didn't know why his defensive coordinator was forced to resign? Holy shit, I can't take this anymore. My boss at work also has a boss, if I was fired due to a sexual crime in the office by my boss's boss, do you think her superiors would disclose that information if she asked for it? Especially if they were trying to cover it up? I think you misunderstand the chain of command here. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:18 Battleaxe wrote: My boss at work also has a boss, if I was fired due to a sexual crime in the office by my boss's boss, do you think her superiors would disclose that information if she asked for it? Especially if they were trying to cover it up? I think you misunderstand the chain of command here. I think you have no fucking clue how football programs work. EDIT: rephrased to be harsher, because this roundabout is stupid. Sandusky was JoePa's #2. JoePa was his boss. The school forces him to resign, and JoePa never gets word of why that happens? He just passively sits in his office until the AD hires a new defensive coordinator for him? Are you out of your mind? At no point in his career has JoePa acted like a passive, detached old man yet whenever something bad happens, whether it's him being a shitty football coach or his #2 being a child rapist, his supporters are ready to attach that description to his name in order to save him. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:12 Jibba wrote: It was his fucking football program. Do you really think he didn't know why his defensive coordinator was forced to resign? Holy shit, I can't take this anymore. Agreed with Jibbba | ||
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Bayloader
United States27 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:19 Jibba wrote: I think you misunderstand how football programs work. In all honesty, Paterno has been nothing more than a figurehead in the Penn State Football Organization for a number of years now. Hell, almost all of the games he's not even on the field anymore. The only reason that Penn State has even kept him around this long is his legacy and the amount of money and students he brings in to the school, as well as football recruits. It's full feasible that he wasn't told about this. I'm not sure why you think the football program would operate so vastly different than any other University organization. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:19 Jibba wrote: I think you misunderstand how football programs work. And I think you and many others are speculating about all this shit. Find me some facts, find me proof that JoePa knew why Sandusky was let go. Oh wait, you're just grabbing your crotch and going NNOOOOOOOO HE KNEW, I KNOW HOW FOOTBALL WORKS HURRRRRR. I think you misunderstand how college football programs work, and college sports in general. Damn son, I'm postin' up. Bring it. Edit: To make this sound harsher. Oh hey look! You're speculating AGAIN! Keep it up man, I'm loving this. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:19 Jibba wrote: I think you misunderstand how football programs work. Sandusky was the defensive coordinator, his superior is Paterno, and his superior is the AD, whose superior is the President of the University, whose superiors are the board of trustees. If anyone above Paterno made the decision to release Sandusky, its entirely plausible Paterno would be denied the reasoning for that. | ||
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Clues
United States186 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:18 Battleaxe wrote: My boss at work also has a boss, if I was fired due to a sexual crime in the office by my boss's boss, do you think her superiors would disclose that information if she asked for it? Especially if they were trying to cover it up? I think you misunderstand the chain of command here. Only you aren't a hyper critical piece of your boss' job. As a defensive coordinator you have an enormous role on a football team. The Head coach along with this offensive and defensive coordinators make up the trinity of the top. You think that somehow the man chosen by JoePa to run his defense would be let go and no one would care to tell him why? That JoePa wouldn't wonder at all? That somehow the man who built the program would be completely fine with allowing arbitrary firings of his people? (Arbitrary assuming he was never given a reason why). No he wouldn't. He would be in the know about everything that goes on within his football organization, that's why hes the head coach. And yet JoePa let this man use his connection to the university to continue to pursue children. How fucked is that. | ||
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tronix
United States95 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:24 tronix wrote: While Jibba makes sense. The justice system doesn't act around "nuh uh he is lying!" Nor should it. Thank you tronix. Until I see actual evidence I'm going to assume Paterno is innocent of any moral wrongdoing. All anyone, Jibba included, can be bothered to do is wave their arms around and go uhhhh hurrrrr durrr, he knew. | ||
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Bayloader
United States27 Posts
A message from Rodney Erickson This is one of the saddest weeks in the history of Penn State. It has been difficult to comprehend the horrific nature of the allegations that were revealed in the Attorney General's presentment last week. As a member of the Penn State community for 34 years, as a parent, and as a grandfather, I find the charges as they have been described to be devastating, and my heart goes out to those who have been victimized and their families. This is a terrible tragedy for everyone involved, and it will take some time to bring a measure of understanding and resolution to the community. In addition to the legal process under way, Penn State's Board of Trustees has authorized a full investigation "...to determine what failures occurred, who is responsible, and what measures are necessary to insure that this never happens at our University again and that those responsible are held fully accountable." As those involved pursue their cases, I also urge you, as Penn Staters, to be patient, to avoid speculation, and to refrain from passing judgment until the facts are known. As you are now aware, the Board of Trustees has asked me to serve as the interim president of Penn State effective immediately. I undertake these duties with a firm sense of resolve, and I ask for your support as we move forward. And move forward, we must and we will. Penn State has a long and storied tradition that has endured for more than 150 years. Our roots are deep, our constitution is resilient, and the importance of our work is as vital today as it was last week - perhaps even more so in the face of such adversity. We are 96,000 students, 46,000 employees, and more than a half a million alumni. We are 24 campuses across the Commonwealth and a World Campus. We are a university that is committed to its core values of honesty, integrity, and community. We are a university that will rebuild the trust and confidence that so many people have had in us for so many years. Through your conduct every day, you can play a role in restoring the integrity, honor, and pride that have always characterized Penn State. I share your anger and sadness in this time, but always remember that your actions reflect on the entire Penn State community. Please set an example that will make us all proud. Moving forward is the only responsible course to take in the coming months. I ask for the full support of our faculty, students, staff, and alumni, and in return I will do my best to lead this institution through the challenges ahead. Thank you for being a part of Penn State. Read the full story on Live: http://live.psu.edu/story/56307#nw5 I bolded the important part. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:23 Risen wrote: And I think you and many others are speculating about all this shit. Find me some facts, find me proof that JoePa knew why Sandusky was let go. Oh wait, you're just grabbing your crotch and going NNOOOOOOOO HE KNEW, I KNOW HOW FOOTBALL WORKS HURRRRRR. I think you misunderstand how college football programs work, and college sports in general. Damn son, I'm postin' up. Bring it. Edit: To make this sound harsher. Oh hey look! You're speculating AGAIN! Keep it up man, I'm loving this. man your attitude has really deteriorated over the course of the day. You are right there are not FACTS at this time Joe knew about a cover up. But based on what Joe saw (McQuerey Promoted and Sandusky losing his keys) the most likely conclusion one can draw is that a full investigation did not occur. With this information, it is my opinion, that Joe failed his moral obligation to protect those who cannot protect themselves, by not pursuing the issue any further. For the record, McQuerey, the Administrators, and all others who saw something and remained silent as equally guilty of failing their moral duty. But, as of now, I believe you can argue that Joe had a moral failing in his handling of the situation. And given his brief statement (about spending the rest of his life trying to make this right) it seems he feels similarly. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 11 2011 05:23 Risen wrote: Remember the Dave Chapelle skit where he wants proof that R. Kelly, Michael Jackson and OJ did it? That's you, right now.And I think you and many others are speculating about all this shit. Find me some facts, find me proof that JoePa knew why Sandusky was let go. Oh wait, you're just grabbing your crotch and going NNOOOOOOOO HE KNEW, I KNOW HOW FOOTBALL WORKS HURRRRRR. I think you misunderstand how college football programs work, and college sports in general. Damn son, I'm postin' up. Bring it. Edit: To make this sound harsher. Oh hey look! You're speculating AGAIN! Keep it up man, I'm loving this. Paterno may have fulfilled a legal responsibility to report suspected abuse by ex-defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, "but somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," state police Commissioner Frank Noonan told reporters Monday. That's really all it needs to be left at. | ||
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