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Memrise: Learning languages with a game approach - Page 6

Forum Index > General Forum
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Cr4zyH0r5e
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Peru1308 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-06 12:17:13
November 06 2011 12:11 GMT
#101
Dude, this is awesome. It assumes you already know a little bit about the language, but not much knowledge is necessary.
I'm gonna word whore in the 6 languages I speak and hope to take over rank #1 once I'm done with all the papers I have to write.

Edit: Apparently Portuguese and Korean are still in Beta. Hmmm, I suppose it's still worth trying them out...
Diamond 4 Jungle/Support - http://www.twitch.tv/cr4zyh0r5e/c/3051057 Zyra support 101
Enox
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1667 Posts
November 06 2011 12:25 GMT
#102
On November 06 2011 20:56 idonthinksobro wrote:
i tested it and so far it seems to be pointless - the wordlists for the language i wanted to improve are all on a very basic level and the program tells you that it's wrong to write "phone" instead of "telephone". (sometimes you get a close but very often you will get 0 points for knowing a synoym).

/E but i will try a little longer you can add me to the list if you want TL-me

dont select the demo version for a language if you arent a real beginner. it includes words like yes, no, hello and so on.. click on "Languages". there you can choose from different wordlists
If you think it's too hard there are solutions other than asking for a nerf, getting better is the first that comes to mind.
Caesarion
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia8332 Posts
November 06 2011 12:29 GMT
#103
Add me! Add me!

TL-Caesarion

Trying out Mandarin for now. Might move on to Japanese/Korean.
Gonozal
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Germany320 Posts
November 06 2011 13:00 GMT
#104
russian is pretty wired. You get an russian word to translate and in the multiple choice are 3 russian words and one english word... Its pretty easy to find the right one there ^^

How do i change the wordlist i learn?
aka NacktNasenWombi
GTo7_Panda
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany68 Posts
November 06 2011 13:05 GMT
#105
At "dashboard", under "My wordlists" you can view and delete your wordlists. You can have as many "gardens" (wordlists) as you want at the same time.
gregdetre
Profile Joined November 2011
44 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-06 14:21:42
November 06 2011 13:08 GMT
#106
On November 06 2011 20:56 idonthinksobro wrote:
sometimes you get a close but very often you will get 0 points for knowing a synonym


[Memrise co-founder here]

I know exactly what you mean. It's really annoying when you type something that's effectively right, but you get told its wrong because it's not the exact answer looked for.

I spent ages reworking the algorithms, trying to make them more permissive, giving you credit for typos, ignoring punctuation and capitalization, to make sure we didn't dock you points accidentally for a right answer. On top of that, we have a list of synonyms and related answers for each word that we accept, and we're constantly trying to add to those lists. That said, the number of user-generated languages is growing pretty fast, and I know we're not quite able to keep up.

Maybe we should also add a 'Hey buddy, I was actually right!' button. Thanks for the idea.
gregdetre
Profile Joined November 2011
44 Posts
November 06 2011 13:11 GMT
#107
On November 06 2011 20:18 smr wrote:
Tryed some czech and I have to say that I like the system. But I see one problem. If they ask you to write the czech word for "better" it doesn't matter if you write "lepši" or "lepsi". The problem is that there is a difference when spoken. Nevertheless I like that page alot.


[Memrise co-founder here]

You're right - this isn't quite right yet.

We're in the process introducing a mini-keyboard that appears below the typing error for each language, so that you can easily learn to type the accents properly. That way, we'll be able to test you on the exact accents. For now, we're just ignore accents, because no one can figure out how to type them!
gregdetre
Profile Joined November 2011
44 Posts
November 06 2011 13:25 GMT
#108
> Is there a limit of different languages you can learn at the same time?
> Or: How much can the brain handle to learn, considering the information
> are dedicated to the long-term-memory?

[Memrise co-founder here]

There are no hard limits in the brain. But one of the biggest reasons we struggle to learn things is that other memories we have get in the way - the knowledge we want may be in our brains, but other related or similar stuff is interfering. So if you learn multiple languages at once, the new words from one language might get in the way with new words from another. One solution would be to make the languages very very different (e.g. Mandarin and Spanish), so that they don't get confused with one another.

> Is the quality of the memorization lower if I just view memrise as a game instead of a tool for learning vocabularies?

Ha! Good question. I don't know for sure. But I think that the most important thing is motivation - so if you're really motivated by a game, you'll learn well1

> And how comes that the brain understands more words that it can use? This one really bugs me^^

Here are a couple of reasons:

- When you're recognizing something, you're just doing a match. Does this fit with what I already know. But when you're using it yourself, you have to pull it out of memory fresh. Recalling a memory requires more than just matching something against a memory you already have.

- When understanding a word, you'll often see it in context. This extra context (other words in the sentence, environment, speaker's tone of voice etc.) all provide information that help you make sense of it.
gregdetre
Profile Joined November 2011
44 Posts
November 06 2011 13:43 GMT
#109
On November 06 2011 18:13 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2011 10:26 gregdetre wrote:
> Be warned, multiple-choice tests are not effective way to memorize stuff.

Hey there - I'm Greg Detre, one of the founders of Memrise. You're absolutely right about this - multiple choice is really testing recognition rather than recall, and risks actually teaching you the wrong answers.

That said, we've found it works well as training wheels - we test you with multiple choice once or twice while your memory is new, and then as it gets stronger we switch to more rigorous tests (like typing).

Simplifying a little, the optimal way to strengthen a memory is to test and test and test it, progressively increasing the difficulty. That's what we're doing here.

Feel free to ask me other questions!

Yours,
Greg
Memrise CTO


Hello Greg,

I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything, but when you say "the optimal way to strengthen a memory is to test and test and test it, progressively increasing the difficulty," by what psycholinguistic hypothesis are you asserting this claim?

The reason software like this bothers me is it simply goes against everything we have discovered about language learning in the past fifty years. If applied linguists have learned one thing from the fall of the audiolingual method, it was this: drilling will almost never take somebody past the most novice stages of language learning. Rosetta Stone went against all of the theory surrounding applied linguistics with this (despite claims that their software is linguist approved), and to no surprise, it is an overpriced, useless piece of software.

I agree that it can indeed by incorporated into a more holistic approach to language learning, but using it as a main source of stimulus has long been known to be ineffective. If you could be more specific and tell us why you believe this system is effective, I'd like to hear more about it.


[Memrise co-founder here]

Hey there,

Those are really good questions. Let me have a crack at them.

The claim about the importance of testing comes from the literature on test-enhanced learning. See e.g. Roediger, H.L. & Karpicke (2006). There's a lot of work to suggest that being tested strengthens your memory much much more than simply seeing the answer over and over again.

The claim about progressively increasing the difficulty comes from Michael Anderson's work on retrieval-induced forgetting, and from my PhD work. Basically, if you have to work hard to get the answer right on a test, it strengthens the memory a huge amount. If it's too easy, you don't get much of a learning effect. If you get the answer wrong, it can actually *weaken* the memory.

Finally, you guys know better than anyone, that the difficulty curve is really important in keeping people motivated. So there are some insights from the gaming world woven in too.

I think you're 100% right that you need to look at language holistically. Vocabulary is critical, and very difficult normally. So we'll turbocharge that, and do our very best to make it fun. That'll give you a big headstart.

Yours,
Greg
GTo7_Panda
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany68 Posts
November 06 2011 13:44 GMT
#110
Thank you for the answers!

One more question: When I learn something new and it´s contextual relatet - will the information itself be saved in the same region of the brain as the context?
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
November 06 2011 13:51 GMT
#111
Wow that's nice !
Vandroy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden155 Posts
November 06 2011 13:59 GMT
#112
Gaming and learning at the same time, what a brilliant idea! I've signed up and will try as soon as I have time. ^^
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
November 06 2011 14:04 GMT
#113
fuck it's youtube. China blocks it
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Jongl0
Profile Joined June 2011
631 Posts
November 06 2011 14:10 GMT
#114
Sounds fun, will check it out when I have more time on my hands.
Kaiwa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands2209 Posts
November 06 2011 14:13 GMT
#115
LOL my mail inbox: "TL-****" gave you a high five! like 6 times You can even high five yourself! Free points dude...
시크릿 / 씨스타 / 에이핑크 / 윤하 / 가비앤제이
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
November 06 2011 14:16 GMT
#116
On November 06 2011 23:13 Kaiwa wrote:
LOL my mail inbox: "TL-****" gave you a high five! like 6 times You can even high five yourself! Free points dude...


Have another haha :p

TL-Phenny if you wanna add to list OP.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
November 06 2011 15:16 GMT
#117
Greg: What's the best way to report simple mistakes, like typos or sound files pointing to the wrong word?
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
conTAgi0n
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States335 Posts
November 06 2011 15:32 GMT
#118
Cool, thanks for the link. This will be a convenient way for me to keep my Mandarin vocabulary from slipping too much. You can add my name to the list, I'm TLconTAgi0n.

On November 06 2011 22:08 gregdetre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2011 20:56 idonthinksobro wrote:
sometimes you get a close but very often you will get 0 points for knowing a synonym


[Memrise co-founder here]

I know exactly what you mean. It's really annoying when you type something that's effectively right, but you get told its wrong because it's not the exact answer looked for.

I spent ages reworking the algorithms, trying to make them more permissive, giving you credit for typos, ignoring punctuation and capitalization, to make sure we didn't dock you points accidentally for a right answer. On top of that, we have a list of synonyms and related answers for each word that we accept, and we're constantly trying to add to those lists. That said, the number of user-generated languages is growing pretty fast, and I know we're not quite able to keep up.

Maybe we should also add a 'Hey buddy, I was actually right!' button. Thanks for the idea.

That "I was right" button is a good idea. I was doing the Mandarin one and it introduced the character for "man" and the related radical, which it called something like "man (squished to one side)." It gave me the radical and I typed "man (squished to one side)" or whatever it was and it marked me as wrong. I can only assume it was looking for just "man."

Really cool you're posting here to answer questions, btw. Interesting to hear your thoughts on it.
Falco252
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
France197 Posts
November 06 2011 16:42 GMT
#119
TL-Falco252 learning English dunno wich one to take tho haha.
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
November 06 2011 16:46 GMT
#120
i wish there was another(darker) background color.
Also its very cool that an offical from memrise discovered this forumthread an answers questions.
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