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On November 04 2011 19:45 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:On November 04 2011 17:22 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:13 TheAntZ wrote:On November 04 2011 17:11 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:00 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 04 2011 16:58 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry  It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads. No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you (Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content). It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit. Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option. You really need to read the 10 commandments to put the mods behavior in perspective. Their house, they are not gonna kick themselves out for being rude. You come to their house and be rude, then you arent welcome. Something like that. Are you suggesting that it is ok for mods to be rude to standard posters? Interesting perspective... I don't know, when I invite people home, I don't do that personnally. Remember that admins wouldn't be much without people coming to their website. But I don't want to make this a big problem! I just found Nazgul behavior inadequate here (as most people would), especially the fact that he allows this because of his status and is defended by other mods. But I assume he probably didn't mean to be absolutely rude and nasty, he just overreacted to something he didn't like (as it happens to everybody) and I can understand that. Just a bit more education wouldn't hurt though. You do realize that Nazgul is a bit more than a mod? He owns TL, so I think his opinions would vary slightly more than a standard mod considering ad blocking cuts into the company he owns He could be Bill Gates, I wouldn't care less. That does not justify anything, and I am surprised people think it might do so. The guy might be concerned with his business, fair enough; I just think there are other concerns to have when it comes to advertisment, which might be more important than his business; and which have to do with the place of advertisment in society in general.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 1000 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who've consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that's why they're still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has thousands of posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you're at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that's the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy's been with us that long, chances are YOU'RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting - just move on.
TL Ten Commandments
You should read it ^^^ some time.
C'mon guys, seriously. How can you even come into the thread and admit that you block an important (if not the only) source of income from TL? And then look at Nazgul, the guy who owns the site/team and say "LOL, don't get angry I'm keeping money from you. It's not your right. I can refuse to look at a WoW or dating ad if I want."
Also, if random ass dating ads are NSFW, maybe you shouldn't...you know...BROWSE TL AT WORK. Or work somewhere where they won't be pissy if you happen to have five asian girls in nothing different than what you would see on the street in an ad on the side of the screen. Justifying ad block by saying "Well...seeing five girls at the side of my screen is annoying" is silly.
Just keep telling yourself "This community is awesome." Ignore the part where you look at the site owner and streamers and say "Fuck you guys, I won't look at a non-intrusive banner ad or thirty second commercial." Just keep telling yourself that.
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I don't think I adblock anything...I know I never downloaded it so if it's not automatic then I don't do it. Yaay for eSports!
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On November 04 2011 20:38 Mauldo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 19:45 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:On November 04 2011 17:22 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:13 TheAntZ wrote:On November 04 2011 17:11 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:00 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 04 2011 16:58 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads. No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you (Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content). It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit. Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option. You really need to read the 10 commandments to put the mods behavior in perspective. Their house, they are not gonna kick themselves out for being rude. You come to their house and be rude, then you arent welcome. Something like that. Are you suggesting that it is ok for mods to be rude to standard posters? Interesting perspective... I don't know, when I invite people home, I don't do that personnally. Remember that admins wouldn't be much without people coming to their website. But I don't want to make this a big problem! I just found Nazgul behavior inadequate here (as most people would), especially the fact that he allows this because of his status and is defended by other mods. But I assume he probably didn't mean to be absolutely rude and nasty, he just overreacted to something he didn't like (as it happens to everybody) and I can understand that. Just a bit more education wouldn't hurt though. You do realize that Nazgul is a bit more than a mod? He owns TL, so I think his opinions would vary slightly more than a standard mod considering ad blocking cuts into the company he owns He could be Bill Gates, I wouldn't care less. That does not justify anything, and I am surprised people think it might do so. The guy might be concerned with his business, fair enough; I just think there are other concerns to have when it comes to advertisment, which might be more important than his business; and which have to do with the place of advertisment in society in general. Show nested quote +6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 1000 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who've consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that's why they're still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has thousands of posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you're at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that's the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy's been with us that long, chances are YOU'RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting - just move on. TL Ten CommandmentsYou should read it ^^^ some time. C'mon guys, seriously. How can you even come into the thread and admit that you block an important (if not the only) source of income from TL? And then look at Nazgul, the guy who owns the site/team and say "LOL, don't get angry I'm keeping money from you. It's not your right. I can refuse to look at a WoW or dating ad if I want." Also, if random ass dating ads are NSFW, maybe you shouldn't...you know...BROWSE TL AT WORK. Or work somewhere where they won't be pissy if you happen to have five asian girls in nothing different than what you would see on the street in an ad on the side of the screen. Justifying ad block by saying "Well...seeing five girls at the side of my screen is annoying" is silly. Just keep telling yourself "This community is awesome." Ignore the part where you look at the site owner and streamers and say "Fuck you guys, I won't look at a non-intrusive banner ad or thirty second commercial." Just keep telling yourself that.
I think I will always prefer a polite noob to a rude veteran. I am sad TL rules think otherwise. That being said, I have shown no lack of respect whatsoever. I even show my concerns for the way this site is financed - I was suggesting that developing contributions and membership may be an option. Think of it: if 1% of people of this site pay an optional membership instead of ads, it's 1% of people who pay of couple of dollars against a few cents of ad clicking. Actually, I don't see any loss with this, in the worse case scenario, nobody pays and that's it.
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you can adblock tl? :o
no I don't.
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I've got a question: Do you get the money for the ads, only when i click at them, or is the mere "looking"(not having the ads blocked) enough for you to get your funds?
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I just added an exception for team liquid. Go ESPORTS.
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i just started using adblocker after reading this i always got annoyed by ads on websites thx
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading.
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I feel that if I am going to use this website, which provides me 99% of my insight into e-sports, I might as well not block ads, which I don't pay attention to anyw... I mean, I look upon to find useful products ;D .
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On November 04 2011 19:54 CoR wrote:when you turn it on the page for just replace 1 banne you hurt tl if you turn it on fot streams you hurt the gamers both things sucks doesnt it
The site still receives visitors it can use to promote itself with, and streamers get more viewers, so it's not like it's not giving anything back. It's just not giving back as much as you potentially could be.
I love TL and everything it stands for, and I don't think the ads do that justice, so I block them currently.
+ Show Spoiler [Tree Hugger's post] +On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether the writer of those statements has ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading.
Now that was well written.
Edit: Just checked the ads now, when there isn't text at the top/dating on the right, I actually like them quite a bit.
Lol'd when a google chrome ad came up despite me already using it.
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On November 04 2011 19:45 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:On November 04 2011 17:22 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:13 TheAntZ wrote:On November 04 2011 17:11 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:00 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 04 2011 16:58 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads. No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you (Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content). It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit. Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option. You really need to read the 10 commandments to put the mods behavior in perspective. Their house, they are not gonna kick themselves out for being rude. You come to their house and be rude, then you arent welcome. Something like that. Are you suggesting that it is ok for mods to be rude to standard posters? Interesting perspective... I don't know, when I invite people home, I don't do that personnally. Remember that admins wouldn't be much without people coming to their website. But I don't want to make this a big problem! I just found Nazgul behavior inadequate here (as most people would), especially the fact that he allows this because of his status and is defended by other mods. But I assume he probably didn't mean to be absolutely rude and nasty, he just overreacted to something he didn't like (as it happens to everybody) and I can understand that. Just a bit more education wouldn't hurt though. You do realize that Nazgul is a bit more than a mod? He owns TL, so I think his opinions would vary slightly more than a standard mod considering ad blocking cuts into the company he owns He could be Bill Gates, I wouldn't care less. That does not justify anything, and I am surprised people think it might do so. The guy might be concerned with his business, fair enough; I just think there are other concerns to have when it comes to advertisment, which might be more important than his business; and which have to do with the place of advertisment in society in general.
man your idealistic views on ads just have no touch in reality.
What do you come on TL for? Is it maybe watching streams and tournaments? Well guess what, without ads/sponsors (who only sponsor teams and tournies for advertisement purposes) there would be no freaking tournaments to watch, no BW, no SC, there would be no professional scene.
You probably watched / read your 99 francs and think you know fuck all about how "bad" advertisement is for our society. Its not. Especially for stuff like sports and esports it is absolutely crucial.
So just come off your high horse and face reality, your idealistic point of view is bullshit im afraid.
And fyi, even if Nazguls post had come from random poster xyz theres no way he would get banned for that.
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On November 04 2011 18:32 SpoR wrote:
I like the elephant picture so I'm not going to block it. I liked the horse picture too
Are you kidding me CM? isnt that like the least you could do for TL?
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I know it is off the current discussion about the principle of having to watch ads, but can we have somewhere on the site where we can have a happy horse and elephant? I liked the elephant... although it did made me sad that he cried... It would be great to have them back without having to adblock again...
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I disabled Adblock for TL () and am currently enjoying some lovely ads ( ) like "fish pedicure in Berlin" and "run. but not against the wall"... Well, a small price to pay for supporting TL!
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On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading.
I appreciate in depth explanation. Let me just say before all that I really think people committed to improve things around here are remarkable:
But I also think there is some kind of blackmail here, when you are saying "refusing ads is to kill esports" or "it's insulting to us, dedicated persons". Why can't you accept that people may not have the same opinion as you, and still don't mean to insult you? I didn't insult anybody. After all, everytime someone disagrees with you, you could say "I feel insulted" to end the debate. We all are adults, so when you feel angry, just refrain yourself a bit. Instead, try to give reasons (and not one shot rhetorical arguments like mentioning "the Orwellian complex" ).
To reply to this (and that will hopefully be my last reply) there are two things:
- one problem is a formal one: regardless of content, being rude is not justified by any means. I think it's a bad habit people at the top have to feel they are not supposed to follow the rules as everyone else. I give my opinion; on contrary to 200 posts before mine, I justify it, which is the least to do for a correct discussion, and here is what I get back. This is what "irritated" me so to speak. We all agree it wasn't a major problem, but you know, just a little little thing that "irritates" you.
- on the content of the issue itself, about advertising: you consider it to be a minor thing. This isn't exactly the case to me; I think it has consequences other than that of "bringing money" that should be considered. I gave them in the previous posts. Some people say this was inconsistent from my side, as esports were relying on ads.
Let me just say that:
1. Being consistent is to consider consequences. All the money put into ads is money that is not going somewhere else. This is a consequence you may not consider, as it goes beyond dealing with this site, but it's still a consequence: how much time and energy, and money and people are devoted to make and sell advertising, which is a non productive activity? All this could be used for better purposes I suppose.
2. Is it irrealistic to go without ads? Let me just suggest is a pragmatic response: organizing voluntary subscription (ads vs fees): you pay fees, no more ads. Many sites do that.
Now I am not here to give lessons, and I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be at least worth a try?
No offense though ,
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On November 04 2011 21:57 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading. I appreciate in depth explanation. Let me just say before all that I really think people committed to improve things around here are remarkable: But I also think there is some kind of blackmail here, when you are saying "refusing ads is to kill esports" or "it's insulting to us, dedicated persons". Why can't you accept that people may not have the same opinion as you, and still don't mean to insult you? I didn't insult anybody. After all, everytime someone disagrees with you, you could say "I feel insulted" to end the debate. We all are adults, so when you feel angry, just refrain yourself a bit. Instead, try to give reasons (and not one shot rhetorical arguments like mentioning "the Orwellian complex" ). To reply to this (and that will hopefully be my last reply ) there are two things: - one problem is a formal one: regardless of content, being rude is not justified by any means. I think it's a bad habit people at the top have to feel they are not supposed to follow the rules as everyone else. I give my opinion; on contrary to 200 posts before mine, I justify it, which is the least to do for a correct discussion, and here is what I get back. This is what "irritated" me so to speak. We all agree it wasn't a major problem, but you know, just a little little thing that "irritates" you. - on the content of the issue itself, about advertising: you consider it to be a minor thing. This isn't exactly the case to me; I think it has consequences other than that of "bringing money" that should be considered. I gave them in the previous posts. Some people say this was inconsistent from my side, as esports were relying on ads. Let me just say that: 1. Being consistent is to consider consequences. All the money put into ads is money that is not going somewhere else. This is a consequence you may not consider, as it goes beyond dealing with this site, but it's still a consequence: how much time and energy, and money and people are devoted to make and sell advertising, which is a non productive activity? All this could be used for better purposes I suppose. 2. Is it irrealistic to go without ads? Let me just suggest is a pragmatic response: organizing voluntary subscription (ads vs fees): you pay fees, no more ads. Many sites do that. Now I am not here to give lessons, and I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be at least worth a try? No offense though,
boo.
User was warned for this post
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
On November 04 2011 21:57 Macpo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading. I appreciate in depth explanation. Let me just say before all that I really think people committed to improve things around here are remarkable: But I also think there is some kind of blackmail here, when you are saying "refusing ads is to kill esports" or "it's insulting to us, dedicated persons". Why can't you accept that people may not have the same opinion as you, and still don't mean to insult you? I didn't insult anybody. After all, everytime someone disagrees with you, you could say "I feel insulted" to end the debate. We all are adults, so when you feel angry, just refrain yourself a bit. Instead, try to give reasons (and not one shot rhetorical arguments like mentioning "the Orwellian complex" ). To reply to this (and that will hopefully be my last reply ) there are two things: - one problem is a formal one: regardless of content, being rude is not justified by any means. I think it's a bad habit people at the top have to feel they are not supposed to follow the rules as everyone else. I give my opinion; on contrary to 200 posts before mine, I justify it, which is the least to do for a correct discussion, and here is what I get back. This is what "irritated" me so to speak. We all agree it wasn't a major problem, but you know, just a little little thing that "irritates" you. - on the content of the issue itself, about advertising: you consider it to be a minor thing. This isn't exactly the case to me; I think it has consequences other than that of "bringing money" that should be considered. I gave them in the previous posts. Some people say this was inconsistent from my side, as esports were relying on ads. Let me just say that: 1. Being consistent is to consider consequences. All the money put into ads is money that is not going somewhere else. This is a consequence you may not consider, as it goes beyond dealing with this site, but it's still a consequence: how much time and energy, and money and people are devoted to make and sell advertising, which is a non productive activity? All this could be used for better purposes I suppose. 2. Is it irrealistic to go without ads? Let me just suggest is a pragmatic response: organizing voluntary subscription (ads vs fees): you pay fees, no more ads. Many sites do that. Now I am not here to give lessons, and I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be at least worth a try? No offense though,
IT WAS A JOKE THE WHOLE HURTING ESPORTS THING A FRECKING JOKE .
This thread hurts my head sorry!!
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Russian Federation228 Posts
On November 04 2011 04:35 Bane_ wrote:
I have both notscripts/no ads advanced (for Opera) turned off for TL I believe but the elephant still appears anyway a lot of the time. :/
You are not alone :\ (Opera too)
I get only Chrome ads (sometimes AdSense) and elephant.
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On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry
advertising is all about productivity. It's how you make people know about your product. So that people can buy it and you can then produce a better product. If productivity doesn't celebrate the intelligence of man, then what the hell does? Isn't the point of man's intelligence to be productive.
.... WHY?!
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EPT
