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I leave it on on my laptop because I have very limited bandwidth per month on my laptop, but at home with my DSL connection (new this month yay!) I have it off for TL... Not for esports but because I love TL
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I don't use adblock at all, because I don't mind that people get paid for their work, and it costs me nothing.
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i have adblock on and dont wanna disable it... the elephant is too cute to get rid of..
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I don't adblock TL but I script-block Google-Analytics ... I think that's the reason why I still get the sad elephant :/
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On November 04 2011 22:05 FuDDx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 21:57 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 21:12 tree.hugger wrote:
Let me try to explain very briefly why some of the responses in this thread are so irritating. Team Liquid has been around for over nine years. Over those nine years, it has become the largest starcraft community on the web. That's not an accident, TL faced a lot of competition in BW, and has faced a lot of competition in Sc2. The reason TL is what it is today is because its users, and especially a small handful of people who became staff, have worked tirelessly to make it so. Whether by contributing articles, giving good responses in threads, writing newsposts, or even coding the site, all of this work was willingly given by ordinary users, for no other reason than a love of this community. Look at the top banner. When the banner was changed to the current version, there were a couple of joke banners put up, and one of them said "TeamLiquid: Starcraft Site". People thought it was hilarious, because Teamliquid isn't really a starcraft site, it's a starcraft community.
I joined TL in 2009, less than three years ago. Since then, I've put in hours upon hours of my time, writing articles, responding to topics, and contributing in various different smaller ways. To me, I find it disappointing that some people are not willing to give up something of completely insignificant value to support this community. But in the general scheme of things, I'm a real newcomer to Team Liquid. I joined TL well after the first four bonjwas had fallen, well after Jaedong and Flash had risen to prominence. I came after the first TSL, and after several whole generations of newspost writers had become inactive. Meanwhile, there are people like Nazgul, Manifesto, and Waxangel who have been around TL since before I got out of middle school, and who have invested so much of their own time and effort into this site that it's insane. And to have to listen to someone justify not doing an extremely simple thing to contribute to this community, while you've logged tens of thousands of hours working for the same community, must feel like a phenomenal slap in the face.
Nobody is being banned because they adblock TL. If you want to adblock TL, that's your prerogative. But then to come into this thread, and justify it with a reason like "I'm against advertising on principle" or "I'm taking a bold stand for my privacy against an Orwellian advertising complex" is simply insulting. Honestly, it calls into question whether you've ever taken public transportation, bought their own food, or even left their room. It's like going to a dinner party and refusing to help wash the dishes, because they'll just get dirty again anyway.
Thank you for reading. I appreciate in depth explanation. Let me just say before all that I really think people committed to improve things around here are remarkable: But I also think there is some kind of blackmail here, when you are saying "refusing ads is to kill esports" or "it's insulting to us, dedicated persons". Why can't you accept that people may not have the same opinion as you, and still don't mean to insult you? I didn't insult anybody. After all, everytime someone disagrees with you, you could say "I feel insulted" to end the debate. We all are adults, so when you feel angry, just refrain yourself a bit. Instead, try to give reasons (and not one shot rhetorical arguments like mentioning "the Orwellian complex" ). To reply to this (and that will hopefully be my last reply  ) there are two things: - one problem is a formal one: regardless of content, being rude is not justified by any means. I think it's a bad habit people at the top have to feel they are not supposed to follow the rules as everyone else. I give my opinion; on contrary to 200 posts before mine, I justify it, which is the least to do for a correct discussion, and here is what I get back. This is what "irritated" me so to speak. We all agree it wasn't a major problem, but you know, just a little little thing that "irritates" you. - on the content of the issue itself, about advertising: you consider it to be a minor thing. This isn't exactly the case to me; I think it has consequences other than that of "bringing money" that should be considered. I gave them in the previous posts. Some people say this was inconsistent from my side, as esports were relying on ads. Let me just say that: 1. Being consistent is to consider consequences. All the money put into ads is money that is not going somewhere else. This is a consequence you may not consider, as it goes beyond dealing with this site, but it's still a consequence: how much time and energy, and money and people are devoted to make and sell advertising, which is a non productive activity? All this could be used for better purposes I suppose. 2. Is it irrealistic to go without ads? Let me just suggest is a pragmatic response: organizing voluntary subscription (ads vs fees): you pay fees, no more ads. Many sites do that. Now I am not here to give lessons, and I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be at least worth a try? No offense though, IT WAS A JOKE THE WHOLE HURTING ESPORTS THING A FRECKING JOKE . This thread hurts my head sorry!!
FuDD, in the midst of all this insanity, I'm really happy to read your voice of reason and balloons.
Others have said it better than I will here: TeamLiquid invented, is, and always will be ESPORTS (the good kind, and not the let's-make-money-on-SC2-eSports-business-venture). If you read TL, enjoy posting on the forums, or glean any sort of happiness from reading girl blogs, please consider how this isn't just an internet forum. You don't come in here, look at stuff, and leave. You make this your homepage, make friends in Mafia subforum, and even occasionally engage in well-moderated debates. I don't think people really understand how insane of a job TL does in making this place a safe and friendly place where we can share our love for the game (any game).
Though based on what I've seen here, they're fighting a losing battle because people ad block crying elephants how could you do such a thing you cruel, cruel people without souls.
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On November 04 2011 21:57 Macpo wrote:
- one problem is a formal one: regardless of content, being rude is not justified by any means. I think it's a bad habit people at the top have to feel they are not supposed to follow the rules as everyone else. I give my opinion; on contrary to 200 posts before mine, I justify it, which is the least to do for a correct discussion, and here is what I get back. This is what "irritated" me so to speak. We all agree it wasn't a major problem, but you know, just a little little thing that "irritates" you.
I think it's rude that you use a product, but think it's justifiable to not give the creators of the product their income. TL is providing a product and the offer a free way to access it. The only reason that it's free is that it is paid for by ads.
People keep looking at TL as a community website, which it is, but TL isn't entirely run by the community. It goes both ways and it is a group of people's PAID jobs to keep this site running. By using adblock, you're cutting into their profits. You're cutting into their wages. You cannot justify cutting into someone's wages.
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Simply put, I don't like the direction that TL's taking. The "opening to the public, becoming less strict, casual, user friendly, generally more global" direction that is. To be fair, TL's by far the most successful in terms of minimizing the "damage" of this process, but still, you can't prevent "change" completely. So TL's not the same for me anymore. Not the "home" (as Manifesto said in his blog) that I relentlessly check every single time when I'm on the net. It has become "just" a very, very good gaming website without any kind of charm (at least for me). That's why I don't turn off adblock specifically for this site either.
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I just noticed a second ad on the right side of the site. I dont mind, really
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I have adblock disabled for this site, simply because it is 1 ad and it isn't obnoxious.
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I dont adblock TL, nor do I adblock any other site. I actually dont visit any sites where the ads bother me and the sites where they are ok should have their revenue.
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I could say I like the elephant too much ( which I do) but the real reason is im just to lazy to disable it... tryed it on ma old computer and it didnt work so yeah looks like me hurting Esports o_O
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On November 04 2011 02:37 Sufficiency wrote:
The "Don't hurt Esports" thing is so absurd that it's hard to not block it. TL is a community site for some esports, but it does not directly invest its assets to esports.
Because TL doesn't do anything for esports right? (SARCASM...)
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On November 04 2011 21:19 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 19:45 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 19:35 Hassybaby wrote:On November 04 2011 17:22 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:13 TheAntZ wrote:On November 04 2011 17:11 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 17:00 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 04 2011 16:58 Macpo wrote:On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On November 04 2011 16:25 Macpo wrote:I do block ads on teamliquid. It's a matter of principle, against advertisment in general. Why? 2 reasons. 1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else? 2. the content of ads is generally not a celebration of the intelligence of man. Quite the contrary. I am definitely willing subscribe to teamliquid, like paying a monthly fee; sure they deserve it. I do that for other websites, like news sites. I suggest that TL organizes this (if you are a subscriber, we suppress ads for you). But no ads sorry It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads. No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you (Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content). It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit. Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option. You really need to read the 10 commandments to put the mods behavior in perspective. Their house, they are not gonna kick themselves out for being rude. You come to their house and be rude, then you arent welcome. Something like that. Are you suggesting that it is ok for mods to be rude to standard posters? Interesting perspective... I don't know, when I invite people home, I don't do that personnally. Remember that admins wouldn't be much without people coming to their website. But I don't want to make this a big problem! I just found Nazgul behavior inadequate here (as most people would), especially the fact that he allows this because of his status and is defended by other mods. But I assume he probably didn't mean to be absolutely rude and nasty, he just overreacted to something he didn't like (as it happens to everybody) and I can understand that. Just a bit more education wouldn't hurt though. You do realize that Nazgul is a bit more than a mod? He owns TL, so I think his opinions would vary slightly more than a standard mod considering ad blocking cuts into the company he owns He could be Bill Gates, I wouldn't care less. That does not justify anything, and I am surprised people think it might do so. The guy might be concerned with his business, fair enough; I just think there are other concerns to have when it comes to advertisment, which might be more important than his business; and which have to do with the place of advertisment in society in general. man your idealistic views on ads just have no touch in reality. What do you come on TL for? Is it maybe watching streams and tournaments? Well guess what, without ads/sponsors (who only sponsor teams and tournies for advertisement purposes) there would be no freaking tournaments to watch, no BW, no SC, there would be no professional scene. You probably watched / read your 99 francs and think you know fuck all about how "bad" advertisement is for our society. Its not. Especially for stuff like sports and esports it is absolutely crucial. So just come off your high horse and face reality, your idealistic point of view is bullshit im afraid. And fyi, even if Nazguls post had come from random poster xyz theres no way he would get banned for that.
He mentioned that he would be glad to provide DIRECT SUPPORT, that is, a few dollars rather than a few indirect tenths of a cent.
On November 04 2011 22:19 timmyfred wrote:
I don't use adblock at all, because I don't mind that people get paid for their work, and it costs me nothing.
If it costs you nothing then who's paying?
On November 04 2011 19:15 LittLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 17:43 esla_sol wrote:
impossible to enjoy streams without an adblock. especially mutliple streams. It's impossible for me to imagine what the hell our generation has come to. Do you think they do this for free? You're essentially spitting the streamers in the face by blocking the ads which generates their bloody INCOME.
They should start a subscription service or accept donations. Many people who use adblock have indicated they are more than happy to directly support the services they enjoy.
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Never had adblock on unless I had just watched some stream, supporting TL forever
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On November 04 2011 23:00 Dekoth wrote:
I have adblock disabled for this site, simply because it is 1 ad and it isn't obnoxious.
no, it's 2 adds. there's one of the bottom right also. still i don't think it's obnoxious.
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It's not like the ads are hurting anyone... if they start to get obtrusive I might consider ad-blocking but why would you block something that 1.) doesn't get in the way, and 2.) Helps out one of your favorite sites?
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The adverts have always been so unobtrusive on teamliquid so I there's no need for adblock while on here. And seeing the ads will help TL in some small way.
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I use IE for my browsing so no adblock there, however ads dont' seem to load on the teamliquid streams since I've got IE7 which is nice
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I use no adblock! I can usually just ignore the ads, and the elephant and I are homies :3
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I almost never use adblock. I'm not incompetent enough with computers to get malware through ads, and I figure if a site is worth reading, it's worth supporting.
1. it is a a very unproductive activity for society, in which yet a lot of money, time, and energy is thrown (away). How many people work to make ads? and for what purpose? Wouldn't all this be better used somewhere else?
Well, Nazgul was certainly correct in his assessment.
No, advertising is the opposite of "unproductive". Advertising is communication with the market. Without the market, no one who does things you consider "productive" would be able to sell what they make.
It's especially amazing that someone would rail against advertising on an esports forum.
90% of the money in esports comes from advertising. Without advertising, there is no esports, or sports for that matter.
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EPT
