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On October 28 2011 07:51 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 04:11 zeehar wrote:On October 28 2011 04:07 Deadlyfish wrote:
I'm against it. People should eat what they wanna eat. doesnt bother me.
I dont really care if the sharks are extinct anyways to be honest. it's kinda sad if you don't care that a apex predator in ocean ecosystems become extinct, which WILL adversely affect humans living somewhere else in one way or another. you'd probably get more angry if your favourite unit got a 1 second nerf to build time. Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed  What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? Hunting a species = killing it off directly, not that there's any importance to defining that concept. You guys don't realize that the very presence of us humans (in this gigantic number) overloads the ecosystem. We are causing change sin the balance of ecosystem in very traumatic way - just with our very presence. In other words, our presence and the way we are present in this ecosystem is not natural. That is why we must preserve the ecosystem in an 'unnatural way' by farming our animal protein sources instead of hunting them down, as we vastly outnumber pretty much any animal species.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head and explained it a lot more clearer than I could...
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On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 04:11 zeehar wrote:On October 28 2011 04:07 Deadlyfish wrote:
I'm against it. People should eat what they wanna eat. doesnt bother me.
I dont really care if the sharks are extinct anyways to be honest. it's kinda sad if you don't care that a apex predator in ocean ecosystems become extinct, which WILL adversely affect humans living somewhere else in one way or another. you'd probably get more angry if your favourite unit got a 1 second nerf to build time. Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to.
100% preventable? Yes.
Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting).
But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind.
When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice.
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United States5162 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:01 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 04:11 zeehar wrote:On October 28 2011 04:07 Deadlyfish wrote:
I'm against it. People should eat what they wanna eat. doesnt bother me.
I dont really care if the sharks are extinct anyways to be honest. it's kinda sad if you don't care that a apex predator in ocean ecosystems become extinct, which WILL adversely affect humans living somewhere else in one way or another. you'd probably get more angry if your favourite unit got a 1 second nerf to build time. Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. 100% preventable? Yes. Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting). But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind. When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice.
That's an incredibly ignorant opinion, but hey, they say ignorance is bliss right.
You have no idea how important sharks are to the environment and are basically pulling your opinion that it wont hurt the environment completely out of your ass.
And it does potentially affect you. When sharks are gone and other smaller predators that they eat proliferate, those predators will start eating things you and I love to eat, so then it comes down to eliminating another species so we can eat what we want. I'll be glad I'm not here when we get to the point where we have to mechanically grow everything we eat. When bee's are gone we'll even have to pollinate plants ourselves.
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This is what it really comes down to.
It's not about the soup, it's rather the way they are hunting down those sharks w/o having any consideration of their population status. It's not even really about the way those sharks are killed for their fin, only to have the rest of the shark thrown back into the ocean. (while some animal lover groups would argue over this...)
So long as the shark fins are farmed (as not to affect global shark population) or hunted in a sensible way (with strict control, by whichever organization), it would not become a problem.
But since those shark hunters are not playing by the rules or by morals, the governments are condemning them by banning the usage of those animal parts.
Would that make any significant change to the demand for shark fins? Probably not - since mainland China probably consumes 90% or more shark fins in the world. Nonetheless, it's a political move to show that the governments do not approve of the senseless hunting of the sharks.
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On October 28 2011 08:06 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:01 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 04:11 zeehar wrote:On October 28 2011 04:07 Deadlyfish wrote:
I'm against it. People should eat what they wanna eat. doesnt bother me.
I dont really care if the sharks are extinct anyways to be honest. it's kinda sad if you don't care that a apex predator in ocean ecosystems become extinct, which WILL adversely affect humans living somewhere else in one way or another. you'd probably get more angry if your favourite unit got a 1 second nerf to build time. Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. 100% preventable? Yes. Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting). But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind. When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice. That's an incredibly ignorant opinion, but hey, they say ignorance is bliss right. You have no idea how important sharks are to the environment and are basically pulling your opinion that it wont hurt the environment completely out of your ass.
I just said it would. This soup wont make the shark go extinct anyways.
Just because something will hurt the enviroment doesnt mean we have to ban it. We can just ban everything we consider "bad".
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United States5162 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:09 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:06 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 08:01 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 04:11 zeehar wrote:
[quote]
it's kinda sad if you don't care that a apex predator in ocean ecosystems become extinct, which WILL adversely affect humans living somewhere else in one way or another.
you'd probably get more angry if your favourite unit got a 1 second nerf to build time. Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. 100% preventable? Yes. Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting). But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind. When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice. That's an incredibly ignorant opinion, but hey, they say ignorance is bliss right. You have no idea how important sharks are to the environment and are basically pulling your opinion that it wont hurt the environment completely out of your ass. I just said it would. This soup wont make the shark go extinct anyways. Just because something will hurt the enviroment doesnt mean we have to ban it. We can just ban everything we consider "bad".
This is where the 100% preventable thing comes into play. I just said that human development in itself causes large amounts of environment damage, but I'm not asking to stop development. I'd just like to stop over hunting when sustainable use is possible.
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On October 28 2011 08:14 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:09 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 08:06 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 08:01 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:On October 28 2011 04:55 Deadlyfish wrote:[quote] Well millions of species have gone extinct throughout history, it isnt the end of the world. Each and every one of them probably affected the ecosystem in some way. Aside from the occasional shark-week on discovery the shark has no effect on my life and therefore i dont care about the actual ban. Whoever actually eats the fin can decide, it's not up to me. I'm just against these sort of bans as principle. And i play random, i dont care if units are nerfed What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement... Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. 100% preventable? Yes. Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting). But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind. When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice. That's an incredibly ignorant opinion, but hey, they say ignorance is bliss right. You have no idea how important sharks are to the environment and are basically pulling your opinion that it wont hurt the environment completely out of your ass. I just said it would. This soup wont make the shark go extinct anyways. Just because something will hurt the enviroment doesnt mean we have to ban it. We can just ban everything we consider "bad". This is where the 100% preventable thing comes into play. I just said that human development in itself causes large amounts of environment damage, but I'm not asking to stop development. I'd just like to stop over hunting when sustainable use is possible.
Yea so would I. I can still be against the ban and for sustainable hunting/farming. I just dont think the ban is the right way to do it, at all.
Anyways, we'll just have to agree to disagree cause i gotta get up in 5 hours 
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United States5162 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:18 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 08:14 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 08:09 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 08:06 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 08:01 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:47 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:43 Myles wrote:On October 28 2011 07:38 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 28 2011 07:17 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
What? How can you not see a clear difference between natural extinction and extinction greatly accelerated by human involvement...
Humans are part of nature too you know. First off, not banning shark fin soup wont make the species go extinct, obviously. Humans have killed THOUSANDS of species, big and small alike, and animals that are probably more important that the shark. So saying that the shark is gonna bring everything down is just silly. Yea it will affect the ecosystem but people are really exaggerating it. But i'm not a biologist, and neither are any of you (i think), so lets not discuss that. Saving everything from extinction is tampering just as much as killing it is. I think humans need to realize that letting a species die is completely natural. Are we gonna try and save every species from now on like we're already doing? (at least every non-insect species). It's silly. Species have gone extinct and will continue to go extinct, with or without human involvement. Also, banning stuff just creates a black market for it or whatever. Elefefant tusks and such are a good example of that. If you really want to save the shark I dont think this is the solution. You clearly don't understand the difference between letting a species die vs directly killing it off. Ehhh. Hunting a species = killing it off indirectly? I dont get it. Humans have hunted down and killed so many species, important species. Or are you referring to something else? I'm referring to hunting a species to extinction. We cause the extinction of hundreds of species every year through indirect methods that come from human development. Habitat destruction and pollution are the primary reason why we're seeing a much higher rate of extinction that rivals some of the mass extinctions of history. That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. 100% preventable? Yes. Will it hurt the ecosystem if we kill the shark? Probably yes. (although not to the extenct that some people are suggesting). But i still dont think you should ban the fin. It's just an animal, and if they want to hunt it it's their choice. I dont care about it, it doesnt affect me. They arent hurting humans so i really dont mind. When it comes to human rights and such i'll be the first to force my beliefs on other cultures, but when it comes to animals i honestly dont care and i think it's their choice. That's an incredibly ignorant opinion, but hey, they say ignorance is bliss right. You have no idea how important sharks are to the environment and are basically pulling your opinion that it wont hurt the environment completely out of your ass. I just said it would. This soup wont make the shark go extinct anyways. Just because something will hurt the enviroment doesnt mean we have to ban it. We can just ban everything we consider "bad". This is where the 100% preventable thing comes into play. I just said that human development in itself causes large amounts of environment damage, but I'm not asking to stop development. I'd just like to stop over hunting when sustainable use is possible. Yea so would I. I can still be against the ban and for sustainable hunting/farming. I just dont think the ban is the right way to do it, at all.
You sure don't sound like it. You sound like you could give a shit if the environment collapses around you as long as you have everything you need. But the reality is that as the environment degrades around us, it becomes harder and more expensive for us to maintain our standard of living.
Also, I would hope the ban is temporary. They should give the species some time to recover before reopening fishing with more stringent regulations. Unfortunately, sharks are very slow reproducers, so it could take quite a while for their number to recover. Also, no matter how you tackle the problem you will create a black market where people try to keep fishing/selling/buying it as they were before.
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On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase.
Or we could learn to control the population.
On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to.
Agreed.
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United States5162 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:33 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:That, however, is unstoppable as long as we want living standards to continue to increase. Or we could learn to control the population. Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 07:53 Myles wrote:Directly causing the extinction of an animal through hunting is 100% preventable though, and there's no reason to increase the strain on the environment any more then we need to. Agreed.
We're trying our damnedest to do this, but unless we're going to go the rate of China, it takes a while. As populations' education and prosperity increase, population rate decreases. So while I would say give it more time to stabilize, I would understand if you said we might not have that long.
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On October 28 2011 08:24 Myles wrote:Also, I would hope the ban is temporary. They should give the species some time to recover before reopening fishing with more stringent regulations. Unfortunately, sharks are very slow reproducers, so it could take quite a while for their number to recover. Also, no matter how you tackle the problem you will create a black market where people try to keep fishing/selling/buying it as they were before.
Not if you regulate it with sufficient taxation/fees for shark fishing.
People could still try to go underground, but high taxes ensures that authorities will be sufficiently incentivized to catch them (i.e. the externality of regulating shark fishing is paid for).
Additionally, another good place to start would be the Shark Conservation Act signed into law by Obama earlier this year. It basically requires any boats coming into US ports with sharks to have the fins attached, thereby preventing people from simply cutting the fins off sharks and throwing them back in (this increases the costs associated with hauling in sharks, thereby decreasing profits and suppressing overfishing).
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On October 28 2011 08:35 Myles wrote:We're trying our damnedest to do this, but unless we're going to go the rate of China, it takes a while. As populations' education and prosperity increase, population rate decreases. So while I would say give it more time to stabilize, I would understand if you said we might not have that long.
We could try harder.
Promotion of birth control would help, although that's problematic when certain religious conservatives vehemently oppose it in many places, due the moral hazard generated by, gasp, sex with fewer consequences. Ideally, we would require and pay for mandatory vastectomy or tubal litigation at birth as well as reversal later in life when people are actually ready to have children, thereby annihilating the unwanted pregnancy rate and its associated problems such as population growth, impeded education/prosperity for underage parents, and high crime rates among unwanted children.
Stopping the reckless distribution of aid in third world nation which only enables more impoverished mouths the next generation in already resource-starved areas might help, as would redirecting those efforts towards building education and infrastructure.
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Many sharks are in danger directly because of over fishing and finning. If people want the tradition of shark fin soup to continue, wouldn't it be in their best interest to make sure they aren't going extinct?
If you don't believe that finning will cause shark extinction and people are making it up, read this.
Think there are no side affects to shark extinction?
"In a case study published last year, Baum found that a major decline in the numbers of predatory sharks in the north Atlantic after 2000 had allowed populations of the sharks' prey, cownose rays, to explode. The rays in turn decimated the bay scallop populations around North Carolina. "There was a fishery for bay scallops in North Carolina that lasted over a century uninterrupted and it was closed down in 2004 because of cownose rays."
Let's look at the case of the American Alligator
"Historically, alligators were depleted from many parts of their range as a result of market hunting and loss of habitat, and 30 years ago many people believed their population would never recover. In 1967, the alligator was listed as an endangered species (under a law that preceded the Endangered Species Act of 1973), meaning it was considered in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range.
A combined effort by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, state wildlife agencies in the South, and the creation of large, commercial alligator farms were instrumental in aiding the American alligator's recovery. The Endangered Species Act outlawed alligator hunting, allowing the species to rebound in numbers in many areas where it had been depleted. As the alligator began to make a comeback, states established alligator population monitoring programs and used this information to ensure alligator numbers continued to increase. In 1987, the Fish and Wildlife Service pronounced the American alligator fully recovered and consequently removed the animal from the list of endangered species. The Fish and Wildlife Service still regulates the legal trade in alligator skins and products made from them."
source
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Let me pose a question: How much would you enjoy a world in which only humans and no other species lived? This is impossible of course due to things like the interconnectedness of life, but humor me.
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shark fin= Americans cows,pigs and chickens
On a more serious note, a lot of Asian people are ignorance toward the whole issues . I think shark fin soup is popular because Asian people look toward eating shark fin soup as a sign of wealth and power(face).
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On October 26 2011 19:10 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 19:00 Divergence wrote:
As hard as it is to deny someone their culture, I think anyone who is sufficiently self-aware should be able to realize when their culture is silly and has a significant negative impact on society. I have little tolerance for people who are too ignorant to honestly assess their own culture.
I have no doubt that their are certain cultural things I do which are objectively silly, but I am perfectly willing to acknowledge that (if pointed out). Everyone should be willing to do the same. I expect it of anyone inhabiting the earth. You only think that way because of the culture that you are brought up in. If you go to china and ask them what they think of westerners, they'll say the same thing. Westerners are ignorant people who's food make them sick. They'll think they intelligent and self aware too.
Yeah, thats right, no one should ever be able to look at a cultural tradition and say that it isn't acceptable!
Damn every country in the world from denying native americans from having the honor of eating their dead enemies hearts! Such cruel laws, denying their culture.
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Should have been banned ages ago. It's fucking barbaric and it has had an enormous impact on shark populations around the world.
I can't see how a rational person in our current society would try to justify the practice in it's current form.
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shark fin soup is delicious. i'm sad that they're banning it, fuck the sharks!
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Like anything that costs alot of money it's a way to show off, people feel powerful that way.
I doubt it's that great tasting, and not even killing but torturing a creature for 1% of it's meat is both wasteful and cruel.
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Welcome to TL where it's perfectly fine to hate on China in every thread!!
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EPT
