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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Having taken the time to read the thread in its entirety, my personal view is that I agree with Blasterion although I do believe he could have phrased his point of view more eloquently.
The problem is that there is a massive fear of being found legally liable for any future costs if you help someone in China. There are also documented cases where people do try and chase ambulances, so to speak, and take advantage of the '06 ruling through extortionist methods. There are cases that have used the 2006 precedent as justification to award damages to the injured party including one in 2009 in Tianjin province. So this is a very real fear. This is compounded by the fact that you place both your personal and familial assets at risk if you intervene and things go badly. It also must be noted that there is no real social security net. A lot of healthcare and care of the family is dependant on the younger generation. Therefore, when looking at this issue more holistically, it's not just about money. It's also about your family.
If I were in this situation, I would call the emergency services then back away. If I were to be found legally liable for any form or manner of this issue, the '06 case sets a precedent for me to bear a large financial liability. If I were not able to pay for it, my family would be expect to pay for it as well. While I am responsible for my own decisions about myself, I cannot make such a decision on behalf of everyone else in my family. I would risk a ruling that would legally require me to prioritise payments to someone else who took advantage of my goodwill over that of my family. If my family had problems, say someone were to get sick, I would still be bound by that ruling. Culturally in China, that is unacceptable. Remember again, the lack of a proper welfare system and the reliance on family for care. Regardless of what your rights to decide for yourself may be, you also lack the right to decide on behalf of everyone else in the family on something that has the potential to drastically affect their future as well. This isn't just about money. It really is about your own family and their future too.
For those of you who comment about the fact this mean prioritising your family over someone else, I pose to you a variant of the Trolley Problem (which some may be familiar with). A train is going down a track and it will hit 5 people tied to the track. You can divert the train, but that would mean it would run over your mother. Do you divert the train? Utilitarianism would say yes, but there are a sizable number of people who would not. The same principle applies in this case.
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On October 18 2011 12:33 FFGenerations wrote:
the problem is that people in a society dont unite and try to resolve these issues. if 500 million chinese all signed a petition saying to change this shitty law (or whatever) then it would get changed, and so would hundreds of other laws and issues that we have
but people dont take action. dont you think THAT is a huge crime? that this incident with the girl happened and still STILL people are sticking their heads in the sand and saying "ohh what a terrible thing , what are we to do with the world!!"
what the FUCK do you think you SHOULD do, people? comment on a newsite??
more little girls are going to get run over and left to die , for years and decades to come, because the People dont unite and take action through solidarity
Don't go out of line and solve foreign problems all by yourself dude
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The people that rode/walked past that girl should be punished as well for their indifference. The woman who moved the kid out of the middle of the street should be celebrated. If a crime like that happened in broad daylight in a crowded place with no intervention I would move out of there as soon as possible no matter the cost. If the victim's family got me convicted for trying to help save their child, I would gladly rot away in jail happy knowing that what I did was the right thing. Shame on those people with weak minds that live in fear every day of reprisal for helping a fellow human being.
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On October 18 2011 12:34 Excomm wrote:
The people that rode/walked past that girl should be punished as well for their indifference. The woman who moved the kid out of the middle of the street should be celebrated. If a crime like that happened in broad daylight in a crowded place with no intervention I would move out of there as soon as possible no matter the cost. If the victim's family got me convicted for trying to help save their child, I would gladly rot away in jail happy knowing that what I did was the right thing. Shame on those people with weak minds that live in fear every day of reprisal for helping a fellow human being.
I would nice if jail was the only price to pay, Remember in China I am my parent's retirement fund, I don't have the room to fuck up like that
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if 500 million chinese all signed a petition saying to change this shitty law (or whatever) then it would get changed, and so would hundreds of other laws and issues that we have
if 500 million chinese signed a petition saying anything im pretty sure the politburo would have a collective stroke
hmmm thatd be pretty good, we should get on that
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On October 18 2011 12:20 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:18 lariat wrote:On October 18 2011 12:14 Nikon wrote:On October 18 2011 12:00 SilverLeagueElite wrote:
I remember China having a 1 child per couple law. If a current child dies, would couples be eligible to have another child? What the fuck? Is that really the way you think about kids? Yes, in China the one child policy does really lead to situations in which these quandaries inconceivable to our customs arise. I believe that couples can file for the right to have another child if their first dies before adulthood. That said, it isn't as if the government restricts child-bearing beyond one per family. The policy isn't enforced in the rural areas, and generally the only punishment for breaking the one child policy is loss of tax benefits, government promotions, and loss of free education. Once again with the first child dead you are allowed to have another child without paying the tax. Same with if your child is extremely disabled, and other near inoperable state
On October 18 2011 12:23 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:14 Nikon wrote:On October 18 2011 12:00 SilverLeagueElite wrote:
I remember China having a 1 child per couple law. If a current child dies, would couples be eligible to have another child? What the fuck? Is that really the way you think about kids? hrm? when i was 15 or whatever we done it in school and learnt how, if they had a girl instead of a boy, chinese would have illegal abortions or give the child away or just kill it so they can try again for a boy. otherwise theyd lose all state support (eg schooling) if they had more than 1
Thank you for clarifying, that's some valuable insight.
I just don't know what to say really, the video in op was pretty terrifying to me, and then SLE basically posted "Well they can just have another kid" (well not in those words). Or at least I perceived it that way, I can safely say that I'm a bit affected right now.
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On October 18 2011 12:34 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:33 FFGenerations wrote:
the problem is that people in a society dont unite and try to resolve these issues. if 500 million chinese all signed a petition saying to change this shitty law (or whatever) then it would get changed, and so would hundreds of other laws and issues that we have
but people dont take action. dont you think THAT is a huge crime? that this incident with the girl happened and still STILL people are sticking their heads in the sand and saying "ohh what a terrible thing , what are we to do with the world!!"
what the FUCK do you think you SHOULD do, people? comment on a newsite??
more little girls are going to get run over and left to die , for years and decades to come, because the People dont unite and take action through solidarity
Don't go out of line and solve foreign problems all by yourself dude
shit ill try my hardest not to (like everyone else)
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On October 18 2011 12:32 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:29 justsayinbro wrote:
but there were ways to help the child without touching her... call the ambulance and stop the second vehicle from running her over again. more common sense and less excuses people. China's medical system: they bring you with the child to the hospital, and if someone doesn't pay then they're not going to treat. You have no way of contacting the parents, can you afford the medical bill?
thats not only in china its like that in lots of places. however its irrelevant because you did your duty as a bystander to render help to people in need. you are not a doctor or a bank. really?
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I'm really wrapped up in my thoughts when I'm going places. I probably would have reached my destination and been like "oh fuck I saw a dying toddler in the middle of the road"
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wow this video is ridiculously disgusting
jesus christ and i was starting to have a good start of the week form yesterday
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On October 18 2011 12:36 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:34 Excomm wrote:
The people that rode/walked past that girl should be punished as well for their indifference. The woman who moved the kid out of the middle of the street should be celebrated. If a crime like that happened in broad daylight in a crowded place with no intervention I would move out of there as soon as possible no matter the cost. If the victim's family got me convicted for trying to help save their child, I would gladly rot away in jail happy knowing that what I did was the right thing. Shame on those people with weak minds that live in fear every day of reprisal for helping a fellow human being. I would nice if jail was the only price to pay, Remember in China I am my parent's retirement fund, I don't have the room to fuck up like that
if i were you i would get the fuck out of china, then i could be act like a human being, and still not have to worry about my parents going hungry.
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On October 18 2011 12:37 justsayinbro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:32 synapse wrote:On October 18 2011 12:29 justsayinbro wrote:
but there were ways to help the child without touching her... call the ambulance and stop the second vehicle from running her over again. more common sense and less excuses people. China's medical system: they bring you with the child to the hospital, and if someone doesn't pay then they're not going to treat. You have no way of contacting the parents, can you afford the medical bill? thats not only in china its like that in lots of places. however its irrelevant because you did your duty as a bystander to render help to people in need. you are not a doctor or a bank. really?
We're not saying not to help lol, You are way misunderstanding this, We're just saying If you are to help make sure you can swallow what you get.
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The real issue is the number of such incidents that happen, that DON'T receive a couple millions views on YouTube and media attention.
Our cute little reactions doesn't do this video nearly enough justice.
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On October 18 2011 12:31 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:27 lariat wrote:On October 18 2011 12:24 Steveling wrote:On October 18 2011 12:19 lariat wrote:On October 18 2011 12:18 Steveling wrote:On October 18 2011 12:17 Elroi wrote:
Fuck. I just don't understand this. What the fuck is wrong with this world? Greedy, cold, moronic people everywhere. People who just walk by, they are not human. As far as I'm concerned these people are not human beings. Exactly my thoughts. The problem is these people are human beings. Repeating what I said earlier human beings display tendencies to shy away from these crisis situations. It's called the bystander effect. I'm sure we can think up many pretty names, blaming our actions on this effect or that syndrome. But it all comes down to who we are individually, so don't feed me this ''human beings display tendencies'' excuse. I give up. You can't argue with a person who dismisses scientific evidence in favor of unfounded personal tenets. I could go into a discussion about ethics in science, but I get the feeling that you are the kind of person that would dismiss the thought that these fields can cross paths.
You're thinking too aggressively. The Bystander Effect is a well-known phenomenon. The more people know about it and understand how awful it is, people will be faster to help people and such. They will not assume that other people will. The Bystander Effect is how it is, not how it should be.
No, not everyone succumbs to the Bystander Effect. And hopefully understanding it will make less people do so.
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On October 18 2011 12:38 jalstar wrote:
I'm really wrapped up in my thoughts when I'm going places. I probably would have reached my destination and been like "oh fuck I saw a dying toddler in the middle of the road"
lol imagine if you were listening to like some hardcore death metal about killing children and then *bump bump* 
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On October 18 2011 12:41 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:38 jalstar wrote:
I'm really wrapped up in my thoughts when I'm going places. I probably would have reached my destination and been like "oh fuck I saw a dying toddler in the middle of the road" lol imagine if you were listening to like some hardcore death metal about killing children and then *bump bump*
i meant walking, i'm a good enough driver to notice the kid and avoid it and call 911, etc.
but when i'm walking it's like the world doesn't exist.
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I didnt really feel anything when watching this video. I mean sure it is horrible but I understand why nobody wanted to help.. if you get accused of being responsible you could pretty much go to jail. Also, I think the girl was pretty much brain dead after being run over the first time... Her parents should have been watching..though.
We get so desensitized to the loss of life by watching horrific stuff, playing videogames, etc..
that just sucks.
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On October 18 2011 12:31 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:27 lariat wrote:On October 18 2011 12:24 Steveling wrote:On October 18 2011 12:19 lariat wrote:On October 18 2011 12:18 Steveling wrote:On October 18 2011 12:17 Elroi wrote:
Fuck. I just don't understand this. What the fuck is wrong with this world? Greedy, cold, moronic people everywhere. People who just walk by, they are not human. As far as I'm concerned these people are not human beings. Exactly my thoughts. The problem is these people are human beings. Repeating what I said earlier human beings display tendencies to shy away from these crisis situations. It's called the bystander effect. I'm sure we can think up many pretty names, blaming our actions on this effect or that syndrome. But it all comes down to who we are individually, so don't feed me this ''human beings display tendencies'' excuse. I give up. You can't argue with a person who dismisses scientific evidence in favor of unfounded personal tenets. I could go into a discussion about ethics in science, but I get the feeling that you are the kind of person that would dismiss the thought that these fields can cross paths.
You're missing the point. This isn't about ethics. This is about the fundamentals of argumentation: that is to bring evidence to support what you claim. I appeal to scientific study, yet you make no such attempt.
I repeat: show reputable evidence that humans are completely distinct rational actors whose agency is not inherited.
You claim that people make these decisions out of an innate quality, regardless of outside influences. Prove it. Logically, this requires an affirmation of the fact that child development/outside influence has no effect upon the personality of the child. For obvious reasons, this is dubious. Going into extremities, from a biological perspective our brain's chemical composition is genetically encoded by our DNA when we are born, which is inherited from our parents, whose distant ancestors were weeded out through natural selection onset by multiple stimuli which could have affected which personalities emerged dominant after generations. This argument is fundamentally the theory of evolution.
As for the bystander effect, the wikipedia page offers the explanation and multiple studies corroborating it, one of which is: Levine, Mark; Crowther, Simon (2008). "The Responsive Bystander: How Social Group Membership and Group Size Can Encourage as Well as Inhibit Bystander Intervention.".
I have presented two arguments and a scientific study against your case. Your response?
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On October 18 2011 12:39 danson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 12:36 Blasterion wrote:On October 18 2011 12:34 Excomm wrote:
The people that rode/walked past that girl should be punished as well for their indifference. The woman who moved the kid out of the middle of the street should be celebrated. If a crime like that happened in broad daylight in a crowded place with no intervention I would move out of there as soon as possible no matter the cost. If the victim's family got me convicted for trying to help save their child, I would gladly rot away in jail happy knowing that what I did was the right thing. Shame on those people with weak minds that live in fear every day of reprisal for helping a fellow human being. I would nice if jail was the only price to pay, Remember in China I am my parent's retirement fund, I don't have the room to fuck up like that if i were you i would get the fuck out of china, then i could be act like a human being, and still not have to worry about my parents going hungry.
Which is not the worst idea I've seen today but it comes down to risk management, The unfortunate girl's parents could be grateful to you, or prey on the opportunity like vultures. It all comes down to what you think is more important and if the risk is worth taking.
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EPT
