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justsayinbro
307 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:40 Blasterion wrote: We're not saying not to help lol, You are way misunderstanding this, We're just saying If you are to help make sure you can swallow what you get. i am just bothered by the extent you are going to justify this happening. its inhumane however you look at it. stop making up excuses please. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:42 th2pun1sh3r wrote: I didnt really feel anything when watching this video. I mean sure it is horrible but I understand why nobody wanted to help.. if you get accused of being responsible you could pretty much go to jail. Also, I think the girl was pretty much brain dead after being run over the first time... Her parents should have been watching..though. We get so desensitized to the loss of life by watching horrific stuff, playing videogames, etc.. that just sucks. I don't think you go to jail, but hey jails not to bad compared to have to literately raise the girl until she dies medical bills included. and fines | ||
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ZiegFeld
351 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:43 Blasterion wrote: Quoted for truth.Which is not the worst idea I've seen today but it comes down to risk management, The unfortunate girl's parents could be grateful to you, or prey on the opportunity like vultures. It all comes down to what you think is more important and if the risk is worth taking. But by no means, does this make China an unpleasant place to live. All depends on which province. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:43 justsayinbro wrote: i am just bothered by the extent you are going to justify this happening. its inhumane however you look at it. stop making up excuses please. Of course it's very inhumane, but as inhumane as it is it's a rather rational decision. I would LOVE to help her. If I don't have to put the livelihood of those I actually really care about on the line | ||
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SilverLeagueElite
United States626 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:14 Nikon wrote: What the fuck? Is that really the way you think about kids? Please don't presume things. I didn't say anything about kids. I just wanted to know what the 1 child policy situation is like. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:47 SilverLeagueElite wrote: Please don't presume things. I didn't say anything about kids. I just wanted to know what the 1 child policy situation is like. It's ok man he was just hot headed for a second, You can have 1 untaxed functional child below the age of 18 is the rule I believe correct me if I am incorrect Definition of Functional is basically not severely disabled. Can operate at large as a regular human being, or rather the definition of disfuctional would be say.....if you have a (this might bring some flame but is true) severly Autistic child, Several Mental disorder, You can probably get away with physical disorders like, unable to walk and stuff but that's kind of borderline. Depends on who stamps your file On October 18 2011 12:37 Nikon wrote: Thank you for clarifying, that's some valuable insight. I just don't know what to say really, the video in op was pretty terrifying to me, and then SLE basically posted "Well they can just have another kid" (well not in those words). Or at least I perceived it that way, I can safely say that I'm a bit affected right now. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:43 justsayinbro wrote: i am just bothered by the extent you are going to justify this happening. its inhumane however you look at it. stop making up excuses please. I made a long post at the top of Page 20. I recommend you have a read of it before you make you ad hominem attacks. Once that's done, we can have a nice discussion about whether the preservation of life should come over all other priorities and if this would be acceptable under the Categorical Imperative (or for that matter whether deontological ethics should be the basis for human ethical responses). | ||
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weishime
65 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:31 Blasterion wrote: I guess they could've done that, Though I wonder how many of those people can afford calling the ambulance though, If I remember this is a pretty run down place, the shithole doesn't even have a side walk Me and You are all pretty well off, We can pay for stuff like that easy without a second thought, but I am not very sure how well those people can manage It just looks like a side street, you can look at lots of side streets around the world that are pretty ugly but you won't assume the entire area is run down and the locals can't afford phones. Plenty of Chinese (who have jobs) have mobile phones because there are only like 2 networks in China and they are cheap as hell. It costs less than 1RMB (can't remember exactly) to send a text and phone calls ain't that expensive. This thing is really weird though, every accident I saw in China had plenty of people willing to stop and watch the spectacle. Didn't matter what the hell they had to do they stopped and watched for an hour like it was nothing. Cops were often there pretty fast. Only thing can think of that is similar to this case was when in the mainland a co workers boyfriend helped a guy out who was getting beat on by a group of guys. The group turned onto him and put him into the hospital. There are people out there who do the right thing, sometimes it means they will get hurt but they still were right to do what they did. Can only hope I am as brave to stand up and help someone who needs it when they are in trouble. No idea if will though, atm I just help lost tourists. | ||
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
The truly sad part is that no one helped, I understand that the way Chinese laws work if you were to help the girl you could be charged with a crime or sued for a great deal of money. it sickens me that the laws work that way over there this kind of stuff does not just happen in China, It happens across the world even in the United States, by no means is it an excuse. Don't blame the people for not helping going to jail for a lifetime because you pulled a child from the road and contacted the authorities(doing the right thing) is terrible price to pay so in their eyes they are forced to avoid helping another. Blame the system for this tragedy not the people, Unless you are blaming the parents which in that case they are fully responsible for not paying the fuck attention to their daughter. | ||
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On October 18 2011 09:33 Archers_bane wrote: This phenomenon of watching idly to this degree of accident may seem barbaric to us in the US, but this can be accredited to the fear of getting accused of being the cause of the accident rather than a good Samaritan...Thank God for the Good Samaritan Law here. Edit: No I have nothing against China and no I am not stereotyping the Chinese. Yes there are two sides of the story, especially with the Chinese culture and similar cases surrounding these types of incidents. Sorry if this has offended anyone. I see OP has edited their post. But it sickens me to see this sort of mentality from individuals here. This sort of thing happens Everywhere and is not restricted to any specific country. I don't see the point of all the country bashing by people of Any Nationality. People underestimate the effects of the diffusion of responsibility and the bystander effect. Murder of Kitty Genovese http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2328582/15yearold_gangraped_outside_richmond.html 2nd Case is from 2009 in case anyone believes that we've "civilized" from that time period. I have unfortunately seen a few of these videos happen in Asian countries, Thailand, etc. Sometimes the person is helped by others, and other times they are not. I've also read other news articles of events like this happening in "Western" nations. I've read a few that has happened in the US and some that have occurred closer to home in Canada as well. Nobody can truly say what they "would" do in that situation unless they were there themselves there and had actually done something to assist. When it comes down to it, it is on the Individuals and Bystanders that walk by. People should stop make broad generalizations about a country. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
Don't you fucking dare call yourself a man, you are just a piece of shit and deserve to have your wallet lodged in your throat and choke to death while people step on you. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:33 FFGenerations wrote: the problem is that people in a society dont unite and try to resolve these issues. if 500 million chinese all signed a petition saying to change this shitty law (or whatever) then it would get changed, and so would hundreds of other laws and issues that we have but people dont take action. dont you think THAT is a huge crime? that this incident with the girl happened and still STILL people are sticking their heads in the sand and saying "ohh what a terrible thing , what are we to do with the world!!" what the FUCK do you think you SHOULD do, people? comment on a newsite?? more little girls are going to get run over and left to die , for years and decades to come, because the People dont unite and take action through solidarity I don't disagree with what you say, but you have to realize that it's not as black and white as you keep making it sound. Uniting the people etc are all things among the idealistic propaganda of the communists btw...I'm afraid that the average Chinese person is far too cynical at this point to believe in that after '89. BTW this thing is over the media, and the Chinese forums are raging. The people aren't that stupid, and they are surely very angry towards the 06 case for this. The drivers are already arrested, and the family is very thankful to the old lady. Don't pretend as if all of China = coward degenerates because some backward town. Now, if you live under a fucked up system, and you got rolled up by tanks when trying to mass protest, you'll learn to shut up and be patient. The communist gov't will do terrible things to you and your family if they even suspect anything that challenges them. It's something that foreigners can't easily understand from their armchair moral throne. You need to be there to understand it. Furthermore, growing up in the western middle class do not give you nearly any taste of how dreadful the sense of urgent responsibility that someone in China feels towards the task of surviving and feeding their family in an extremely overpopulated, competitive and corrupted country. The many things that contribute to this clusterfuck can't simply be solved by morally justified boldness alone, not in China at least. Also, I myself am one of those who wouldn't hesitate to help if this was in Canada, but will think twice about doing anything more than calling 120 if it was in China. I believe that the majority of people who was in that situation would do so as well. my 2 cents...this is truly an appalling event, and reminds me of how lucky I am to be in Canada. | ||
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lvatural
United States347 Posts
Horrible but understandable imo. And I don't plan to judge anyone too harshly without fully understanding the situation (i.e., personal experience). I could talk morals of what could be done, but it would just be useless and flimsy refuse spewing from my mouth based on nothing more than the standard morals we're all taught to uphold. I know how I would like to act in such a situation; but it's an entirely different question of whether I would act in the same manner if it actually occurred. Reminds me of internet polls where >50% say they're not afraid to die. :/ | ||
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casualman
United States1198 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:55 Kamais_Ookin wrote: I've read this entire thread and I just want to say that Blasterion makes me sick. He's inhumane, his morals are the same as the Chinese in the video not paying any attention to the poor girl and just walking away after a mere glance. How fucking shameful, you need to be embarrassed and stop posting in this fucking thread. If I were your son and found out you just go your way from a 2 year old infant dieing on the ground I'd spit on your fucking face. Don't you fucking dare call yourself a man, you are just a piece of shit and deserve to have your wallet lodged in your throat and choke to death while people step on you. Reported. What an ignorant, shameful comment. | ||
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Excomm
United States152 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:36 Blasterion wrote: I would nice if jail was the only price to pay, Remember in China I am my parent's retirement fund, I don't have the room to fuck up like that I constantly hear this from from my Chinese friends here in San Diego. One person I am friends with got a M.S. in biochemistry in the same lab that I was in. She went back to China to go to law school. I had to help her write her essays for her applications to law school because she did not know why she wanted to become a lawyer. She was only doing it because her parents told her to. I don't owe anyone a debt deep enough to lose my own sense of purpose and free will. Obviously what happened to the girl who got run over is an extraordinary situation, but if people are unwilling to help themselves due to fear of judicial punishment then they are in effect slaves to a terrorist judicial system. I'm sure this is a really sensitive issue, but surely the inability of a community to help one another for the sake of family is an area in need of improvement. | ||
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nodnod
New Zealand172 Posts
A few things stood out for me. 1) the hit-and-run, a horrible crime committed by the driver (stopped then drove away) 2) all motorists, cyclists, and drivers purposely drove around the child 3) the woman purposely held the children she was with back from checking out the child 3) eventually someone did call for help Common decency should have compelled people to help the stricken child, but almost nobody did. | ||
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DarkwindHK
Hong Kong343 Posts
I do think it IS a China mainland problem as the Chinese culture is not like that in Taiwan, HK and overseas Chinese community. The 06 incident, political system, and even the cultural revolution all has influence in the current culture in mainland. I really do not know how this can be fixed. Is there any successful examples from history we can learn from? | ||
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justsayinbro
307 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:49 MoonBear wrote: I made a long post at the top of Page 20. I recommend you have a read of it before you make you ad hominem attacks. Once that's done, we can have a nice discussion about whether the preservation of life should come over all other priorities and if this would be acceptable under the Categorical Imperative (or for that matter whether deontological ethics should be the basis for human ethical responses). no i don't have to read it because there were ways to help the kid without risking anything. call the ambulance and stop the second vehicle, but don't touch the child. if they wanted to help, they could have. it was only their own messed up discretion that they would likely be sued. can't blame family or self well being for that one. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 18 2011 12:58 Excomm wrote: I constantly hear this from from my Chinese friends here in San Diego. One person I am friends with got a M.S. in biochemistry in the same lab that I was in. She went back to China to go to law school. I had to help her write her essays for her applications to law school because she did not know why she wanted to become a lawyer. She was only doing it because her parents told her to. I don't owe anyone a debt deep enough to lose my own sense of purpose and free will. Obviously what happened to the girl who got run over is an extraordinary situation, but if people are unwilling to help themselves due to fear of judicial punishment then they are in effect slaves to a terrorist judicial system. I'm sure this is a really sensitive issue, but surely the inability of a community to help one another for the sake of family is an area in need of improvement. Yeah, Definitely could use improvement. It seems that to most people have misunderstood my stance, but the thing is yeah those people in the video aren't doing the right thing, But i can understand why, sometimes you can't just look at things through one perspective. | ||
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