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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
I've been dating my current (also first) girlfriend for about six months now and I think women and men are similar in more ways than you'd expect; they are also pretty different and you shouldn't treat women like men or assume that they will see things like men and act like men will.
When determining if a girl likes you, she probably likes you in the same way you have liked girls, but women usually try to subtly try to engage you about liking them rather than being upfront about it. Men and women are afraid of rejection but since women are never really encouraged socially to approach men directly they usually don't get over that fear enough to ever do it (whereas men are expected to be the ones to approach women directly so typically it becomes easier for us to do so with time).
This is just something that you need to learn to be aware of. Obvious signs a girl likes you is when she asks you to do things with her, asks what you're doing, invites you places, makes excessive conversation (as your friends pointed out) etc. This kind of sucks for guys because then it can be hard to differentiate between overly friendly girls and girls that like you (I think most men have probably confused one for the other each way many times), but it does help.
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Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned?
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On March 12 2016 18:05 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2016 17:24 quake wrote:
Hello!, Everyone I would like to share with you my personal story.
Don't really get women. The tragedy of this is as such. Anyways... So, I'm 23 never been on a date. Super depressing right? First of all, it's not very depressing. I went on my first date about a year ago, now I've met 11 girls. It's easy to change your behavior if you want to. Secondly, I don't really know why you are reading so much into these encounters. The girl who thought she knew you for example. Maybe she actually just did think she knew you. Maybe the girl in the grocery store did think you were cute. Regardless, it does not matter. What matters in my opinion is whether you like her or not. If you do think they are attractive and you would like to meet them, ask them out. Otherwise, don't! I don't see how thinking "Yeah I had like ten girls who thought I was attractive, well I don't know for sure since they didn't ask me out but my friends told me they gave me signs." will help you in any constructive manner. Getting better at girls would probably be extremely beneficial for you though since you have so many friends saying they were all over you schnatzel. If a friend tells someone is into you I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't mean you have to act on it though.
Yeah, I agree. I just gotta go out more and just try stuff. If I fail I fail but at least I know I tried. Eventually I'm sure I'll get it right. Disclaimer, don't want to be a player, or someone who hooks up all the time. I just want to be able to make the moves when I see what I like, via get approached and the attraction is mutual.
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On March 13 2016 14:08 WarSame wrote:
Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned?
Especially regarding how women vs men deal with crushes or "liking" someone - almost entirely learned
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Chocolate's 6 month experience with women apparently has given him insights the rest of us can only grasp at.
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hes not wrong tho albeit somewhat stating the obvious
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On March 13 2016 19:33 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
hes not wrong tho albeit somewhat stating the obvious
You would be surprised how it apparently isn’t obvious enough. Just go back a page. Or whenever this kind of topic came up in here, the you see that this "men are inherently different by nature" is a very common misconception. The idea of being inherently different seem to appeal to both sides.
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It's easier to justify a lack of success with women when one defines women as categorically different than one's self. Otherwise, "I'm not good with women" turns into "I'm not good with people," and I daresay a fair number of folks are less comfortable with the latter 
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I think the biggest issue with people saying "Women and men are just plain different when it comes to relationships" is that that frequently provides tacit approval for a person to stop trying to make a relationship work because there are apparently some things you just can't understand because you're the other sex. It's not helpful. No, men and women are obviously not identical, but that shouldn't stop you from working to understand the other person (and the other person from understanding you). You can still make it work.
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On March 13 2016 14:08 WarSame wrote:
Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned?
Does it matter?
I've yet to find a woman you can seduce with niceness and hugs.
And I always for fall for that.
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On March 14 2016 00:41 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 14:08 WarSame wrote:
Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned? Does it matter? I've yet to find a woman you can seduce with niceness and hugs. And I always for fall for that.
So if an otherwise unattractive woman is nice to you and then gives you hugs, she can bang you at her leisure? Interesting.
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On March 14 2016 00:52 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 00:41 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 13 2016 14:08 WarSame wrote:
Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned? Does it matter? I've yet to find a woman you can seduce with niceness and hugs. And I always for fall for that. So if an otherwise unattractive woman is nice to you and then gives you hugs, she can bang you at her leisure? Interesting.
I¡ve gone lower to what I consider average for both banging a relationships.
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On March 14 2016 00:59 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 00:52 farvacola wrote:On March 14 2016 00:41 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 13 2016 14:08 WarSame wrote:
Do you believe that those differences are innate or learned? Does it matter? I've yet to find a woman you can seduce with niceness and hugs. And I always for fall for that. So if an otherwise unattractive woman is nice to you and then gives you hugs, she can bang you at her leisure? Interesting. I¡ve gone lower to what I consider average for both banging a relationships.
I can assure you, there are women with similar low standards/expectations. Especially when it comes to niceness and hugs they are just as exploitable as everyone else who is craving for that kind of attention. Only requirement is that they don't have easy access to it somewhere else.
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On March 13 2016 18:03 B.I.G. wrote:
Chocolate's 6 month experience with women apparently has given him insights the rest of us can only grasp at.
fuck off, I'm not saying I know everything, I was trying to help a guy who has never even dated anyone before
And I don't have just 6 months experience with women anyway, that is just the longest I have ever dated somebody and through her / her friends I feel like I do understand women much better than I did before. It's easy to think of women as just a bunch of pretty dumb sluts (which is basically how I had viewed them for a long time) and be bitter about it but reality is not so cut and dry
On March 13 2016 22:52 farvacola wrote:It's easier to justify a lack of success with women when one defines women as categorically different than one's self. Otherwise, "I'm not good with women" turns into "I'm not good with people," and I daresay a fair number of folks are less comfortable with the latter
on point
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You are not wrong Chocolate I was just commenting on how it's funny how you opened your post with "well I have had a girlfriend for 6 month" so get ready for some truth y'all.
And in my opinion man and women are pretty similar, there are just some things that are more important for a woman than a man, or vice-versa.
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On March 13 2016 21:00 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 19:33 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
hes not wrong tho albeit somewhat stating the obvious You would be surprised how it apparently isn’t obvious enough. Just go back a page. Or whenever this kind of topic came up in here, the you see that this "men are inherently different by nature" is a very common misconception. The idea of being inherently different seem to appeal to both sides.
Ok, give me examples. Of how women and men are similar and I'll give you examples of how men and women are different.
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On March 14 2016 10:16 quake wrote:
Ok, give me examples. Of how women and men are similar and I'll give you examples of how men and women are different.
Give me two individuals and I demonstrate the concept of individuality. For every cliché and generalisation you will find hits and misses. Plus the topic is much more difficult because of the factor of pressure from outside. The pure existence of a cliché can lead to it becoming reality. My statement was that men and women are not that different by nature. Our behaviour is for the most part learned though.
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On March 14 2016 10:16 quake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 21:00 waffelz wrote:On March 13 2016 19:33 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
hes not wrong tho albeit somewhat stating the obvious You would be surprised how it apparently isn’t obvious enough. Just go back a page. Or whenever this kind of topic came up in here, the you see that this "men are inherently different by nature" is a very common misconception. The idea of being inherently different seem to appeal to both sides. Ok, give me examples. Of how women and men are similar and I'll give you examples of how men and women are different.
It's not as simple as that. One cannot just say that every man expects X but every woman expects Y. Since each person is an individual, you should figure out what the individual prefers and not just stereotype them.
When it comes to first impressions, both men and women can be attracted to looks, confidence, wit, charm, smiles, a happy and fun personality, intelligence, athleticism and mystery. And other stuff. It depends on the context and the individual.
When it comes to retaining a relationship, both men and women can be looking for honesty, openness, communication, participation, strong principles but willing to compromise in certain (minor) aspects to make the relationship work, trust, adventure, new and exciting things, safety, a sharing of nostalgia, and things in common. And other stuff. It depends on the context and the individual.
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On March 13 2016 05:24 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 01:15 LemOn wrote:On March 13 2016 00:08 WarSame wrote:On March 12 2016 18:41 LemOn wrote:On March 12 2016 17:24 quake wrote:
Hello!, Everyone I would like to share with you my personal story.
Don't really get women. That's completely natural, don't let any feminist bullshit fool you, women are different from men not only biologically but also how in terms of how they are neurologically wired.
The tragedy of this is as such. Anyways... So, I'm 23 never been on a date. Super depressing right? It is what you make it. However, that's not really the depressing part. The sad part is when, your friends tell you that, the girl you were just talking to was giving you signs all over the place and you had NO idea. Yeah, once twice? No big deal. When it happens all the time? Then you start to wonder. Now I know some of you are going to think, how can you possibly know you're friends aren't just saying this? Well, to be honest I can't prove that I'm right. However, in my mind I 100% believe that I have missed many many chances because I don't pick up on things ( Or make a move).
How were you supposed to pick up on them, when you have 0 experience and there's no way of knowing what actions lead to what reactions? The making a move part is all that matters, if you really feel like your quality of life would increase significantly if picking up on signals and being comfortable with women and satisfying your emotional needs you need to start taking action, seeing their reactions and with that experience you'll eventually recognise signals etc. as well. Man women aren't that different at all. They're conditioned socially to act differently, but underneath they have all the same motivations, fears, desires, etc. that men do. Both of our wants and needs that we express to the world are filtered through what we've been conditioned with. It's doing yourself a disservice to assume that we're inherently that different. We're not. eh, no we don't, brains actually function differently! It's not just social conditioning. That in itself is a way society is trying you to think but there are significant neurological and biological differences between men and women that change instincts, and those are hard wired through evolution. You're propagating a simplifying myth. If you want an extensive look at the literature on the topic, I suggest you read Rebecca M. Jordan-Young's book Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences (2010), it's extremely exhaustive and well-documented. Her conclusions include that we are not blank slates (predispositions are not completely identical in individuals, regardless of gender) but that the binary system of gender does not accurately capture these initial differences. Cultural factors are overwhelmingly what matters when it comes to differentiation with regards to cognitive dispositions.
fair enough
Yeah coming back here I must say after some posts that obviously men and women do have general differences, very large ones indeed - I don't see anyone disputing that men tend to not have a pussy or oestrogen spikes as large as women in certain periods of life. But I'm not informed enough as to as to what extent stems from biology, instincts developed through evolution and cultural influences.
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On March 14 2016 21:27 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2016 05:24 kwizach wrote:On March 13 2016 01:15 LemOn wrote:On March 13 2016 00:08 WarSame wrote:On March 12 2016 18:41 LemOn wrote:On March 12 2016 17:24 quake wrote:
Hello!, Everyone I would like to share with you my personal story.
Don't really get women. That's completely natural, don't let any feminist bullshit fool you, women are different from men not only biologically but also how in terms of how they are neurologically wired.
The tragedy of this is as such. Anyways... So, I'm 23 never been on a date. Super depressing right? It is what you make it. However, that's not really the depressing part. The sad part is when, your friends tell you that, the girl you were just talking to was giving you signs all over the place and you had NO idea. Yeah, once twice? No big deal. When it happens all the time? Then you start to wonder. Now I know some of you are going to think, how can you possibly know you're friends aren't just saying this? Well, to be honest I can't prove that I'm right. However, in my mind I 100% believe that I have missed many many chances because I don't pick up on things ( Or make a move).
How were you supposed to pick up on them, when you have 0 experience and there's no way of knowing what actions lead to what reactions? The making a move part is all that matters, if you really feel like your quality of life would increase significantly if picking up on signals and being comfortable with women and satisfying your emotional needs you need to start taking action, seeing their reactions and with that experience you'll eventually recognise signals etc. as well. Man women aren't that different at all. They're conditioned socially to act differently, but underneath they have all the same motivations, fears, desires, etc. that men do. Both of our wants and needs that we express to the world are filtered through what we've been conditioned with. It's doing yourself a disservice to assume that we're inherently that different. We're not. eh, no we don't, brains actually function differently! It's not just social conditioning. That in itself is a way society is trying you to think but there are significant neurological and biological differences between men and women that change instincts, and those are hard wired through evolution. You're propagating a simplifying myth. If you want an extensive look at the literature on the topic, I suggest you read Rebecca M. Jordan-Young's book Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences (2010), it's extremely exhaustive and well-documented. Her conclusions include that we are not blank slates (predispositions are not completely identical in individuals, regardless of gender) but that the binary system of gender does not accurately capture these initial differences. Cultural factors are overwhelmingly what matters when it comes to differentiation with regards to cognitive dispositions. fair enough Yeah coming back here I must say after some posts that obviously men and women do have general differences, very large ones indeed - I don't see anyone disputing that men tend to not have a pussy or oestrogen spikes as large as women in certain periods of life. But I'm not informed enough as to as to what extent stems from biology, instincts developed through evolution and cultural influences.
Whether your significant other has a penis or a vagina, he or she can still be looking for sexual pleasure... so it matters less about what the actual sex organ is and more about what the person expects from a relationship.
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EPT
