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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
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3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On November 05 2015 08:16 waffelz wrote:
Update:
This weekend she went to a party and got drunk, slept with a guy for unknown reason and called me the morning after. We met, we talked, I broke up with her and everyone is miserable. Guess I am lucky I only wasted a few month instead of years this time.
To add icing on the cake, a girl I only occasionally have contact with and therefore didn’t knew about this or my relationship asked me if I am interested in being “friends with benefits”. Quote: “You can just fuck around, there is no problem with that”. Yes my dear, I have been made terribly aware of that. This is just stupid.
I'm very sorry to hear that :/ I'm not sure how willingly she did what she did (and I would be even more mad at her friends who didn't keep her from making a huge mistake after getting drunk), but it does suck  Maybe she will learn from this and pay more attention to not get drunk again (I doubt it). Also your colleague being a spineless douchebag sucks.
Just try to get your life back together (as in, rebound from the emotional hit) first by focusing on stuff that is not dating-related (your injuries have healed by now, right?).
On November 05 2015 11:22 IgnE wrote:
Now we know that no one should take dating advice from you.
Nope. Besides Waffelz not being wrong, just very unlucky, you should not dismiss advice from anyone easily. Just take everything with a grain of salt and choose the advice that makes the most sense to you. People live different lives, different surroundings, different expectations and behaviour. Just because Lem0n is in a relationship for more time than a lot of people in here doesn't make all his advice right. Doesn't make it wrong either.
On November 05 2015 17:34 Shinon wrote:
Question for the experts here: are relationships like this less likely to succeed in your opinion? And with that I mean sex first, feelings later. I'm not sure what to expect from it, just taking it as it goes and enjoying myself.
I'm no expert by any means but I have a male friend who was in a relationship with a slut that cheated on everyone. So after she broke his heart (like she did with any other guy she was with) he slept around, including a co-worker of her. And after sleeping with her a couple of times they decided that they actually fit well together and have been a couple now for ~9 months. Feelings usually appear when you spend more time with anyone, but depending on how well your personalities match they can go in either direction (repulsion/love). So just try to not lead her on too much about making her think you are all committed to a life-long relationship with her yet and figure out if your personalities match (and have fun along the way  )
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If a girl likes you and you are strongly chemically attracted, she will want to fuck your brains out right off the bat. Girls just hold themselves back because of stygmas from society and past bad experiences really, so it's definitely a good thing!
Good point is that just because she's sleeping with you doesn't mean you're exclusive or boyfriend girlfriend though so keep that in mind, I'm a dummy so pretty much always leave that to the girls to bring that up first and assume we're not committed before they start bringing up the signals. Fi0na can tell you what they are
The danger of being too forward trying to lock a girl down comes more from the guy I'd say on average? If the sex is frequent and great and she's the only girl we're banging we can see the wedding bells ringing. I've never head a guy who'd be having awesome frequent sex with one girl that doesn't cheat who'd break up with her yet tbh
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On November 05 2015 09:57 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 08:25 LemOn wrote:
We've actually talked about it with the girl I'm dating, in detail.
I openly told her I had sex with other girls when we first started dating, she didn't mind. But when I told her I was cuddling with one of the girls I didn't even go all the way with, she got super jealous. For girls emotional bond/cheating is somehow worse than physical. And I told her that for men sex with someone else, no matter how emotionless is like way worse than connecting emotionally with an old friend.
Anyways, to get to the point you agreed that you are exclusive at some point yeah? Did she call you your boyfriend?
If she did then making out, some hands on action with a stranger is easily forgivable when fucked up, but to go out, get drunk, make out, leave the party, be outside, go home with him, get undressed, put a condom on (hopefully) have sex just can't happen without consent and the person knowing what she's doing. So we agreed there's no way back from that, and a good decision indeed my friend - it's been only a couple months anyways right?
Oh and also why is it *wasted time*? I really wouldn't turn back time on any of my past relationships, I learned from every single one and had fun on top of that too, just one more experience to boot Yes, we were officially a couple and also both made clear to each other that this means exclusiveness. And it was a waste of time because I suck at dealing with any betrayal from certain people. Sure there is some experience you can gain from it, but it is not worth the effort I put in and the aftermath. If a relationship just ends without major drama you can at least look back at it as a nice memory, but cheating just makes me wish it never happened since all my efforts where just wasted. It is also most likely going to negatively affect me on further searches for a relationship.
I mean you put in the effort because you wanted to right, not because you wanted something back? You taught us so many nice small things you can do for a girl, doing those makes you feel good too right?
I don't hold resentment towards people cheating, it's completely understandable. I've been with a girl for 4.5 years, lived with her for 4, and she cheated on me in a super elaborate way, told me she needs to think to stay with her friend for a few weeks, and then came back living with me without me realizing anything and trusting her. I kicked her out one month later when I found out. She was married 3 months later. And I wouldn't trade that relationship for anything in the world, it was great taught me so many lessons and I'm a better person for it, especially in my relationships, and I understand where she was coming from completely (did take me over a year to do so and be at peace with it.)
And I know the clear reasons for her cheating, the biggest problem was lack of honest hard communication, and you know what? We would have broken up if we were brutally honest with each other and had the balls to do it. People just naturally avoid difficult situations, but when it comes to cheating you either are not communicating honestly and dealing with things you can change, or you are not supposed to be together in the first place, and that's fine too.
That's why I did disagree with DPB, you should tell her those jeans make her look fat, or that you feel like sleeping with other people before you'd act on it so you can talk about it. Political correctness is way overrated because if everyone was completely honest then there would simply be no cheating. Because there always is a reason for it and if a girl is head over heals in love with you, she simply will not cheat, drunk or not.
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On November 05 2015 17:34 Shinon wrote:After a 3 year hiatus I'm back in the dating game, woop. Bit of an atypical start though, for me at least. Met a girl at a party through mutual friends, hit it off after some peer pressuring (bad mutual friends  ), made out all night. Met her again at another party one week later, ended up sleeping with her at a friend's place. At that point I didn't really know much about her yet, and I can't say there were any feelings, just physical. We've gone on 2 proper dates since, know a lot more about each other already, and feelings are starting to appear. Question for the experts here: are relationships like this less likely to succeed in your opinion? And with that I mean sex first, feelings later. I'm not sure what to expect from it, just taking it as it goes and enjoying myself.
I don't think it's too much of an issue as long as you both eventually develop substantive feelings for one another. Sexual attraction just happened to be a catalyst to potentially get you there, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that There's no rule that says that successful relationships cannot start with lust, and it sounds like your approach ("just taking it as it goes and enjoying myself") is a smart one. You don't need to try and force development, especially if you're not sure how quickly your girl wants to move into anything official.
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On November 05 2015 20:10 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 09:57 waffelz wrote:On November 05 2015 08:25 LemOn wrote:
We've actually talked about it with the girl I'm dating, in detail.
I openly told her I had sex with other girls when we first started dating, she didn't mind. But when I told her I was cuddling with one of the girls I didn't even go all the way with, she got super jealous. For girls emotional bond/cheating is somehow worse than physical. And I told her that for men sex with someone else, no matter how emotionless is like way worse than connecting emotionally with an old friend.
Anyways, to get to the point you agreed that you are exclusive at some point yeah? Did she call you your boyfriend?
If she did then making out, some hands on action with a stranger is easily forgivable when fucked up, but to go out, get drunk, make out, leave the party, be outside, go home with him, get undressed, put a condom on (hopefully) have sex just can't happen without consent and the person knowing what she's doing. So we agreed there's no way back from that, and a good decision indeed my friend - it's been only a couple months anyways right?
Oh and also why is it *wasted time*? I really wouldn't turn back time on any of my past relationships, I learned from every single one and had fun on top of that too, just one more experience to boot Yes, we were officially a couple and also both made clear to each other that this means exclusiveness. And it was a waste of time because I suck at dealing with any betrayal from certain people. Sure there is some experience you can gain from it, but it is not worth the effort I put in and the aftermath. If a relationship just ends without major drama you can at least look back at it as a nice memory, but cheating just makes me wish it never happened since all my efforts where just wasted. It is also most likely going to negatively affect me on further searches for a relationship. I mean you put in the effort because you wanted to right, not because you wanted something back? You taught us so many nice small things you can do for a girl, doing those makes you feel good too right? I don't hold resentment towards people cheating, it's completely understandable. I've been with a girl for 4.5 years, lived with her for 4, and she cheated on me in a super elaborate way, told me she needs to think to stay with her friend for a few weeks, and then came back living with me without me realizing anything and trusting her. I kicked her out one month later when I found out. She was married 3 months later. And I wouldn't trade that relationship for anything in the world, it was great taught me so many lessons and I'm a better person for it, especially in my relationships. And I know the clear reasons for her cheating, the biggest problem was lack of honest hard communication, and you know what? We would have broken up if we were brutally honest with each other and had the balls to do it. People just naturally avoid difficult situations, but when it comes to cheating you either are not communicating honestly and dealing with things you can change, or you are not supposed to be together in the first place, and that's fine too. That's why I did disagree with DPB, you should tell her those jeans make her look fat, Political correctness is way overrated because if everyone was completely honest then there would be no cheating.
1. What about being tactful in your honesty? You don't have to lie, but you don't have to belittle someone who cares for you/ you care about. You still have to see them the next day, and saying certain things in certain ways can definitely hurt a relationship. Word choice is important, especially in regards to their vulnerabilities and insecurities (and you cannot just say "Well, get over it", because that's not the way humans realistically cope with issues). If I think my girl looks fat in a pair of jeans and she asks me directly, I'll probably say something like "I think I like the other pair of jeans even more on you", and that gets the appropriate message across without me explicitly calling her fat and with her understanding that I'm giving her honest feedback on where one outfit stands with another. Same with a dress or shirt or whatever. You might call that political correctness; I call it tact.
2. I strongly disagree with your claim that if everyone was brutally honest with each other, then no one would cheat in their relationship. I think that's a non sequitur. I also don't think that some relationships would be as successful without filters, so I would think that a successful relationship doesn't only require "not cheating". Of course, I agree with you that communication is vital in a successful relationship, but I think saying things without a filter isn't necessarily optimal. Positive communication could be having a talk with your girl about working on your relationship; negative communication would hurt the relationship, and might be something as tactless as "Yeah you look fat" or "Your sister is hotter" or "I don't think you're smart". Even if asked about these things, there are better ways to respond without lying. It's a hard line to balance on- being honest but also not offending your girl- but it's something important to learn for a successful relationship.
3. I would absolutely resent someone for cheating on me. If an exclusive relationship I'm having isn't working for the other person, then I expect them to be honest and open with me so we can either take steps to try and fix things (preferable) or so that she can end things with me honestly and cleanly, and then she can go fuck around with whoever she wants. I wouldn't resent her for communicating her feelings and breaking up with me, but I'd resent her if she screwed around behind my back when we're supposed to be committed to each other. It's a betrayal of trust.
For the record, I do enjoy the fact that you and I don't agree on literally everything, because I think the discussions we're having promote some really interesting perspectives, and people are looking for options and other lenses to view these philosophies from
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Everyone knows solid relationships are built on lines like " I don't think you're smart"
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The point is, you would discuss it with the person before you'd actually cheat - and then it wouldn't be cheating as you'd either work on the reasons for you leading to that, decide on an open relationship for a while or just call it quits. If a girl told me she's so unhappy she feels like being with other men beforehand and we'd honestly talk it out, that relationship has radically higher chance of success of working than if she cheats, from which for me is no coming back from.
And yeah we do disagree and will. I had that discussion with my girl after I've told her one of her trousers are horrible, and she looks like my 50 year old boss I had at Scottish Widows when she wears them, if you're not honest in these small things it's hard to be in the bigger ones. So I do think it's important for example when you have a romantic moment after a long date on a swing and she asks you "your face looks weird, does your head hurt?" just honestly "no I was just holding back a fart" (what actually happened) because then you equally will be just naturally honest about you being crazy about her what looks great on her, or that you love her.
And honestly, if you don't think she's smart, that her sister is hotter and that she looks fat in general why are you with her in the first place When you are in a relationship with a person I assume it is because she's freaking awesome and you never stop telling her that, that's why you can be also honest without tact when you don't like something, which should be a small minority of things in the first place, or you're in a wrong relationship.
I didn't mind one bit when she told me she met a better looking model type guy than me at a party, or that I'm pushy, but that's part of me and she loves it (even when I don't and I'm working on that). It's just so freeing when you can actually say what you mean to each other without filters and you know the other person will stick with you and work through it, even if it means offending each other in the short run.
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waffelz, don't you spend another minute of your life on that piece of shit ex-gf of yours and that sorry ass of an excuse for a man that is your classmate. There are billions of amazing people out there and two people that have proven to be treacherous and selfish should be forgotten as soon as possible.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 05 2015 20:47 farvacola wrote:Everyone knows solid relationships are built on lines like " I don't think you're smart"
"turn over and shut the fuck up"
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On November 05 2015 21:30 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 20:47 farvacola wrote:Everyone knows solid relationships are built on lines like " I don't think you're smart" "turn over and shut the fuck up"
"hold this and don't move"
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On November 05 2015 17:34 Shinon wrote:After a 3 year hiatus I'm back in the dating game, woop. Bit of an atypical start though, for me at least. Met a girl at a party through mutual friends, hit it off after some peer pressuring (bad mutual friends ), made out all night. Met her again at another party one week later, ended up sleeping with her at a friend's place. At that point I didn't really know much about her yet, and I can't say there were any feelings, just physical. We've gone on 2 proper dates since, know a lot more about each other already, and feelings are starting to appear. Question for the experts here: are relationships like this less likely to succeed in your opinion? And with that I mean sex first, feelings later. I'm not sure what to expect from it, just taking it as it goes and enjoying myself.
The faster you sleep with a girl, in relationship to her other experiences, the more she feels attracted to you. In general, you should always pursue intimacy as fast as possible.
Edit: On the cheating thing: never ever talk to her again and erase all contact info. Treason is among the worse things anyone can do. This applies not only to relationships, but friends, family and business associates.
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On November 05 2015 11:22 IgnE wrote:
Now we know that no one should take dating advice from you.
Not sure if this is addressed towards me or [UoN]Sentinel. If it is directed at me, I don’t think me being unlucky justifies such statement.
On November 05 2015 10:56 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
3 months is like the longest I've ever gone dude lol
Could've sworn it was last month, but it's already November now... Time flies!
My longest been about 6 years which twisted my perspective on what’s long a bit I guess.
On November 05 2015 19:00 Fi0na wrote:
Just try to get your life back together (as in, rebound from the emotional hit) first by focusing on stuff that is not dating-related (your injuries have healed by now, right?).
Mostly. I am still not allowed to jump into the ring which would be my usual goto but I am able to do all the normal stuff by now so I will see to fill my time in some way.
On November 05 2015 20:10 LemOn wrote:
I mean you put in the effort because you wanted to right, not because you wanted something back? You taught us so many nice small things you can do for a girl, doing those makes you feel good too right?
I don't hold resentment towards people cheating, it's completely understandable. I've been with a girl for 4.5 years, lived with her for 4, and she cheated on me in a super elaborate way, told me she needs to think to stay with her friend for a few weeks, and then came back living with me without me realizing anything and trusting her. I kicked her out one month later when I found out. She was married 3 months later. And I wouldn't trade that relationship for anything in the world, it was great taught me so many lessons and I'm a better person for it, especially in my relationships, and I understand where she was coming from completely (did take me over a year to do so and be at peace with it.)
And I know the clear reasons for her cheating, the biggest problem was lack of honest hard communication, and you know what? We would have broken up if we were brutally honest with each other and had the balls to do it. People just naturally avoid difficult situations, but when it comes to cheating you either are not communicating honestly and dealing with things you can change, or you are not supposed to be together in the first place, and that's fine too.
That's why I did disagree with DPB, you should tell her those jeans make her look fat, or that you feel like sleeping with other people before you'd act on it so you can talk about it. Political correctness is way overrated because if everyone was completely honest then there would simply be no cheating. Because there always is a reason for it and if a girl is head over heals in love with you, she simply will not cheat, drunk or not.
I did it mostly because it felt right/the proper thing to do, but even without I would expect at least some respect. Not necessarily in return but more like an expectation you generally can make. It did make me feel good doing them, but that’s no use in retrospect. It’s quite the opposite. My 6 years relationship also ended with her cheating on me, even though it was much more devious. I know that I was really happy at the time, but whenever I look back, there is just a short moment until the feel of regret kicks in. Somehow it managed to tint all the memories with a very bad aftertaste, so I would rather not have them.
It also feels like a failure on my part.
Despite that though, I strongly believe that cheating always can happen if you just have the wrong partner. It is not only a question of being in love with someone, but also of self-control/commitment and character. Bottom line is, some people are just selfish or weak and not all of them give it away easily. I think cheating can always happen, even if both do their best. But since feelings are stupid, it still feels like failure.
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Forgiveness is a great thing, one of the reasons why meditation is great at dealing with depression etc. Maybe you need to face those feelings and find it in yourself to forgive before you can really have a healthy trusting relationship again? (The first one, seems like it still has impact on your personality and relationships)
And yes, majority of poeple end up with the wrong partners (divorce rates, marriage satisfaction...) question is if self-control/commitment and character is the bigger problem, or people just are afraid to be their raw self, offend and repel a lot of people until they find someone truly compatible while accepting the fact that they might spend a lot of time alone.
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On November 05 2015 21:42 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 21:30 marvellosity wrote:On November 05 2015 20:47 farvacola wrote:Everyone knows solid relationships are built on lines like " I don't think you're smart" "turn over and shut the fuck up" "hold this and don't move"
"close your eyes, open your mouth"
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On November 05 2015 00:52 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 00:29 LemOn wrote:There's no such thing as absolute beauty, it's all relative. And your appearance as a man besides being clean is pretty low on women't priorities. Women have no idea what's good, and most would say that Arnold or Kai Greene are ugly almost disgusting - that tells you something, girls have no clue what a proper male beauty is god damn it! In general it's definitely not relative. To some it might be, but anyone who has been to Tinder or any other online dating site knows very well that is certainly not the case at all. I'll give you that it's not 100% sure the reason she ditched me was because I was "uglier" than her though, I just think it contributed a lot. Show nested quote +Obviously it can be a no-no for you if she's in touch with EX, and that's really reasonable, but definitely you shouldn't have an issue with her going on dates with another random guy at first.
Her dating other guys would have been fine by me, as long as she wasn't sleeping with both of us. Yeah I agree. Show nested quote +But I'd say next time you shouldn't really care, date more women at first too, and only commit to the ones that really fulfill you from every aspect. She seemed to do the same thing Yeah this is what I picked up from this the most.
dude you said you were picking up other gals off tinder
if you want to ignore everyone's valid advice about things like not immediately pissing off a person you just met whatever, but dont be a hypocritical turd, and dont start going on about how shes unstable or whatever dumb trope laden shit you are saying to justify what happened
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On November 06 2015 00:16 QuanticHawk wrote:
dude you said you were picking up other gals off tinder
if you want to ignore everyone's valid advice about things like not immediately pissing off a person you just met whatever, but dont be a hypocritical turd, and dont start going on about how shes unstable or whatever dumb trope laden shit you are saying to justify what happened
I'm just making that statement based out what my friend told me. Her entire "collective" (people she lives with) says she has been acting strange lately. I think she is a nice girl but from what I have heard she seems to going through something.
Going to a party today, the one she asked a ticket for, she will be there. I might see her, hopefully not.
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On November 05 2015 23:04 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2015 21:42 farvacola wrote:On November 05 2015 21:30 marvellosity wrote:On November 05 2015 20:47 farvacola wrote:Everyone knows solid relationships are built on lines like " I don't think you're smart" "turn over and shut the fuck up" "hold this and don't move" "close your eyes, open your mouth"
"this'll only hurt for a little while"
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@fiona and waffelz
My comment was in jest and directed towards Sentinel.
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On November 05 2015 22:21 LemOn wrote:
Forgiveness is a great thing, one of the reasons why meditation is great at dealing with depression etc. Maybe you need to face those feelings and find it in yourself to forgive before you can really have a healthy trusting relationship again? (The first one, seems like it still has impact on your personality and relationships)
And yes, majority of poeple end up with the wrong partners (divorce rates, marriage satisfaction...) question is if self-control/commitment and character is the bigger problem, or people just are afraid to be their raw self, offend and repel a lot of people until they find someone truly compatible while accepting the fact that they might spend a lot of time alone.
It is not about forgiveness, it is about realizing that some people are just not to be trusted or unworthy your time. I believe people who cheat are either weak or selfish and you can’t count on them. To me it shows a serious lack of character and my opinion about that doesn’t change no matter if a person cheated on me or someone else. It is also not my pain that speaks here, I believed that long before I got cheated on.
Not saying those people are forever bad, but if someone has been a cheater, you should keep that in mind for at least 3 years (It basically is bad behaviour. Bad habits/pattern can be fixed by acting against them for about 3 years, after which your brain will have undergone some neural changes and after that things should feel natural/more easy. A nice slap to the face to those who claim you can’t change. You can’t change everything of course, but with enough effort you can change most of things).
I agree that my 6 year relationship still affecting me, but not in a way of me still clinging on to it. It is more a case of having proper reasons not to forget so fast. But whatever, for sure I will stay away from dating for quite some time now, so I have enough time to figure that out while the greyness takes over.
@Igne: thought so, but fi0na got me confused
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Uhm, my apologies then. I clearly misunderstood
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EPT
