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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
In the end it's your decision and I'm only commenting on what is available for me to read, I and others are just offering a perspective. Now let's relax and don't think I'm trying to be mean or make you depressed. In the end you can take some of what I say and leave some or take everything or take nothing, just do what rings true for you. I just want you to move away from this draining relationship. Start a sport, fix other stuff if need be, make some good bros (or see those you have), have hobbies, meet someone, go to a bar, meet someone, do online dating, meet someone. Meet someone that actually likes you and be happy.
Online dating... Must really get around to trying that. Think I come across as rather boring tbh  Thanks again.
A big problem with me meeting ppl is this town seems small, and I don't have that many friends left in it. they all left for the big city . Coincidentally, this is still the 5th biggest in SA lol
Sports will be more of a direct social benefit, while going to the gym would be more beneficial to your body image. That being said, playing sports is a good motivational factor to start going to the gym in the first place. Regardless, head over to the TL Health and Fitness thread and we'd be happy to help guide you towards your goals!
recruiters! recruiters everywhere! :D
Jks. Will have a look.
Yeah, i'm joining a squash league in Jan, and there is social tennis fairly close to me I should prob go to.
Edit: @ Virgin topic: Just want to say - not looking for sex right now. I've had trouble with relationships, but not enough that i havent had an offer or two. Just don't want to have sex over anything casual.
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On December 06 2013 01:28 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 14:40 Arachne wrote:On December 05 2013 07:33 QuanticHawk wrote:
Sitting on it would be a mistake since you won't know if you have an opportunity, and then you're going to eventually get burned in the process and feel bad when she's with other dudes. If she's not interested in the serious thing, you decide whether or not you wanna be option B.
For all you know, she could be saying 'You know this isn't dating' because you haven't brought it up. Back before this (this year), I told her that i'm not interested in friends unless there's potential for something more, because ofthe trainwreck that happened last time. I then kinda worked my way into her friends again, and on the same night, kissed her because it was going well. She is happy right now, coz I keep on satisfying her with "lets just have fun for now", although last night she forced me to change it to "lets just have fun as friends for now" (I see no difference in this for the current predicament) Everytime dating is brought up, she reinforces she doesnt want to date me, but again, I think we work well together from my nonexistent successful relationship experience (not saying she's the love of my life. Learnt the lesson from that last time ^.^) So you've straight up asked before 'do you want to do this exclusively??' Because if so, and she says no, but then throws all these mixed signals at you, that's kinda fucked up.The fact that you're a virgin, you're saying you don't have good self esteem, and you want something she's not willing to give, I'd check out of this thing because it isn't gonna end well. You wanna do what makes you happy, and it's obvious you're not gonna get it from her.
I can count the casual sexual relationships that went on for a while (2-3 months+) where one side didn't start to develop feelings on one hand. From my experience that's utterly and completely normal. Long periods of casual (and or frequent) sex will lead to emotional attachment.
Those "mixed signals" happen because you had a "deal" that suddenly seems harder to execute. Women I talked to about this described that they sent mixed signals because their feelings were mixed. The best explanations I got were among the lines of "Well we said we just wanted to have fun and we had lots of fun and then suddenly I started enjoying it a bit... too much. But since we both said we don't want something serious I was really uncomfortable with this so I said xyz but I still enjoyed being around you so..." etc. pp.
And THAT'S where women do "their job" and try to define the relationship in more detailed ways which imo aims to keep a certain healthy emotional level. That's where the sudden no-contact comes from ("I had to protect myself somehow") that's where uncertainty pops up ("We're doing this as friends, right?") and all these kind of shenanigans.
Now since men try to deal with these things by "Well I said this and that straight up and she gave me a straight answer so that must be true for all eternity, right?" shit hits the fan.
Edit: Wait, gg. Missed the "both virgins"-part. I mean, I have seen plenty "I'm almost 30 and a virgin" situations develop just fine but I really have an issue seeing two people like that fixing all their shit at the same time. Not that I don't believe it's possible but, yeah. I'd recommend moving on.
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On December 06 2013 03:17 Arachne wrote:Show nested quote + In the end it's your decision and I'm only commenting on what is available for me to read, I and others are just offering a perspective. Now let's relax and don't think I'm trying to be mean or make you depressed. In the end you can take some of what I say and leave some or take everything or take nothing, just do what rings true for you. I just want you to move away from this draining relationship. Start a sport, fix other stuff if need be, make some good bros (or see those you have), have hobbies, meet someone, go to a bar, meet someone, do online dating, meet someone. Meet someone that actually likes you and be happy. Online dating... Must really get around to trying that. Think I come across as rather boring tbh Thanks again. A big problem with me meeting ppl is this town seems small, and I don't have that many friends left in it. they all left for the big city . Coincidentally, this is still the 5th biggest in SA lol Show nested quote + Sports will be more of a direct social benefit, while going to the gym would be more beneficial to your body image. That being said, playing sports is a good motivational factor to start going to the gym in the first place. Regardless, head over to the TL Health and Fitness thread and we'd be happy to help guide you towards your goals! recruiters! recruiters everywhere! :D Jks. Will have a look. Yeah, i'm joining a squash league in Jan, and there is social tennis fairly close to me I should prob go to.
Well sure if you're in a remote place online dating isn't great if you're at least in a city with 10s of thousands there's no harm in making a profile and sending a couple messages here and there.
But there's still probably other meeting venues. Meeting through friends is a good way (and the most common), do some club/bar nights with one or 2 friends too (or a party). Then there's through activities.
Either way, if your reaction is to say "I think I'm boring" then maybe you should put some work into that and actually do stuff you're interested in (kudos for starting a sport). If you become interested in a subject, you should become more interesting as a consequence. Also next time you do an activity think about bringing your camera, that's the kind of material you need for an online profile (compared to people who put selfies there) (unless you already have some anyway).
If you already do a ton of stuff, then it's more a problem of self-confidence. So just remember that as long as you think you have enough passions for a normal life, you're interesting enough. Not everybody can be Elon Musk.
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On December 06 2013 01:31 mRandy wrote:
So im looking for some advise on the girl im seeing right now. First off im doing this on my phone on the way home so sorry for any bad text. We started talking about 2 months ago and we started of really well the first weeks or so. After 2 weeks we started to text about 20-30 times aday and so on. We tried to meet at a time that whould fit us both, i asked the most but she always agreed with a smile. However at the day we was going to meet she went silent for about 6-8 hours and then a few hours after the time we agreed on meeting up she texted me and said she had to go the hospital. And i said "oh ofc dont worry about it. Are you alright?". To this is also good to know that she has just gotten better from some time of sickness so its all good.
And after this i tell her that i dont want to pressure her if she dosnt want to meaning the illness etc. She right away says "no i really want you to keep talking to me". So we keep on like normal only now she talks about what we should do together and this is where i was abit taken back. Its awesome she wants to do stuff but we havent met more then two times at this point. So i keep giving suggestions on when we can meet and she always says yes but same thing happena the same day we jave agreed to meet up. She goes silent the whole day and 1-2 hours sometimes more she answers and says she has been bissy, didnt see my text, out of town or says she answerd my text but it never got sent for some random reason. And i think i know whats going on at this point so i confront her about it and tell her to tell me what she wants to do, giving her a "out" if she wants it. But she says no again and tells me she really do wants to see me etc.
At this point (2 weeks ago) im pretty sure she dont want to do this anymore. And then she says for sure we will go out for a coffe this past sunday. I say okey and sunday rolls by and same thing as the last time, only this time she text me at 19:00 "oh sorry! I was studying" now im 110% sure im geting played so i tell her to just be honest (again...) and same thing she says she really want to. But now shes really short in the texts and sometime just answers with smilys...(i mean WAT)
So whats up? Im i being played or am i wrong here? If not: what should i do now? I might just be overthinking it aswell.
Move on yo. Girls like the chase, when you "catch" them, the game is over. Some girls who have low self-esteem just really like when guys want them. This girl isn't interested in you but wants you to want her so she can feel good about herself.
You don't need this shit, be patient and find someone who appreciates and wants you.
I took a two year break from dating (though I did have some casual sex a few times with various women) and without actively seeking a girlfriend, I've found a girl who is easy to date and doesn't give me any stress and we've been going strong for a few months now. Just be patient and let things happen instead of forcing it because you are horny.
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Well that friend of mine that I asked out finally gave me an answer "you're a really nice guy, but I'm still into my ex and we might get back together, we're still friends right?" And it kinda sucks and hurts like a bitch but I'm sure it happened for a reason. Thanks for the advice and good luck wishes guys. Guess I'm back to the drawing board.
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I've written two blogs about "I don't know girls" and this is right in line with those. Met a girl online and right from the get go, before we meet up, she seems into me. As far as text conversations go we must have had a pretty good one. At one point she said she recently bought a bottle of wine in the hopes that she could share it and acquire a taste for wine,
etc. I said things by text that I think really made her laugh (I am much better at being funny with a girl by text since I can take my time and think of the funniest thing). And also by the way we talked online, at one point she said "you seem very outgoing" which in reality I am usually very quiet, but maybe can do better with a girl as far as talking more.
So we meet up at a bar and have some wine, conversation seems to go pretty decently, she did laugh here and there. The goodbye was slightly awkward but that happens I guess. Soon after we leave she texts and says hey had a great time.
Then she starts saying some very favorable stuff - so I am 2nd date worthy eh, I really wanna cuddle but realize I should have self control, then I start saying me too yadda yadda and she says I would cuddle you, I say since we live close I could even come tonight, she says I am so ready to cuddle, I wanna have my room clean for you, I'll clean it tomorrow.
So, next night, we make plans for me to come to her place and have wine. I go over there, I think I kinda failed on the conversation here, I didn't really make her laugh or ask her a lot about her, it may have been boring serious conversation about random things, even about her tv and furniture, abut her guitar, her bookshelf, where her brother lives, etc.
So, I came into this night thinking we were definitely going to cuddle and make out. In her text where she gave me her address, immediately before I came over, she said "my room isn't perfect but it will do lol" (see above about her saying she'd clean her room so we could cuddle). But, and here's where I could be completely wrong, I read her as wanting to keep her distance a bit and really just have some wine and conversation, and then send me home so she could get to bed. Now, I admittedly don't have much of a clue how to make a move on a girl. I did two things that I thought might indicate I was trying to get closer, so she could move closer if she wanted. When sitting beside her on be couch, us both leaned forward, I leaned back and out my arm out over couch, so that it would be above her if she leaned back. She instead rotated a bit and stayed at the front edge if the couch. I read this as her not wanting to move in closer so I could make a move (but, she has a roommate who came out if her room at one point, so maybe if I were to make a move it could only have been in her room).
Then, we're in her room talking, and at one point I leaned back on the edge if her bed, but she remained standing a few feet away. I again thought that if she wanted to get closer then maybe she would have sat on the bed a bit like me. Eventually she started walking back out to the living room so we could just sit on the couch.
One other thing she did I interpreted as meaning she didn't want any physical contact was when I led us into her room by saying "why don't you show me your clean room", since she had said several times she would clean it so we could cuddle. She laughed with a tone like "it's funny you just said that" or "that wasn't a smooth way to do this". Didn't seem like a response that would indicate she wanted to do anything more than show me her room.
Eventually she just took out her phone while we were talking and said alright I need to go to bed, this like 1.5 hr after I got there.
Texted her about 3 hrs ago but no response, she usually responds kinda fast but could just be busy at work.
Did I fail completely by not making a move, especially given her text right before I came over? I hate myself if so lol. Should I have just been straight up aggressive and asked her if she wants to go cuddle? I don't want to just out of the blue be trying to kiss her, which is why I would try to gradually get closer on her bed etc
These fuckin girls are giving me chances and I fuck it up and am left with nothing. And I just feel like I have no fucking clue how to make a move or what to do. I have a deep yearning not to miss out, them when a girl wants me the most and has said the most explicit things she could, I miss out.
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On December 06 2013 05:27 Doodsmack wrote:
I've written two blogs about "I don't know girls" and this is right in line with those. Met a girl online and right from the get go, before we meet up, she seems into me. As far as text conversations go we must have had a pretty good one. At one point she said she recently bought a bottle of wine in the hopes that she could share it and acquire a taste for wine,
etc. I said things by text that I think really made her laugh (I am much better at being funny with a girl by text since I can take my time and think of the funniest thing). And also by the way we talked online, at one point she said "you seem very outgoing" which in reality I am usually very quiet, but maybe can do better with a girl as far as talking more.
So we meet up at a bar and have some wine, conversation seems to go pretty decently, she did laugh here and there. The goodbye was slightly awkward but that happens I guess. Soon after we leave she texts and says hey had a great time.
Then she starts saying some very favorable stuff - so I am 2nd date worthy eh, I really wanna cuddle but realize I should have self control, then I start saying me too yadda yadda and she says I would cuddle you, I say since we live close I could even come tonight, she says I am so ready to cuddle, I wanna have my room clean for you, I'll clean it tomorrow.
So, next night, we make plans for me to come to her place and have wine. I go over there, I think I kinda failed on the conversation here, I didn't really make her laugh or ask her a lot about her, it may have been boring serious conversation about random things, even about her tv and furniture, abut her guitar, her bookshelf, where her brother lives, etc.
So, I came into this night thinking we were definitely going to cuddle and make out. In her text where she gave me her address, immediately before I came over, she said "my room isn't perfect but it will do lol" (see above about her saying she'd clean her room so we could cuddle). But, and here's where I could be completely wrong, I read her as wanting to keep her distance a bit and really just have some wine and conversation, and then send me home so she could get to bed. Now, I admittedly don't have much of a clue how to make a move on a girl. I did two things that I thought might indicate I was trying to get closer, so she could move closer if she wanted. When sitting beside her on be couch, us both leaned forward, I leaned back and out my arm out over couch, so that it would be above her if she leaned back. She instead rotated a bit and stayed at the front edge if the couch. I read this as her not wanting to move in closer so I could make a move (but, she has a roommate who came out if her room at one point, so maybe if I were to make a move it could only have been in her room).
Then, we're in her room talking, and at one point I leaned back on the edge if her bed, but she remained standing a few feet away. I again thought that if she wanted to get closer then maybe she would have sat on the bed a bit like me. Eventually she started walking back out to the living room so we could just sit on the couch.
One other thing she did I interpreted as meaning she didn't want any physical contact was when I led us into her room by saying "why don't you show me your clean room", since she had said several times she would clean it so we could cuddle. She laughed with a tone like "it's funny you just said that" or "that wasn't a smooth way to do this". Didn't seem like a response that would indicate she wanted to do anything more than show me her room.
Texted her about 3 hrs ago but no response, she usually responds kinda fast but could just be busy at work.
Did I fail completely by not making a move, especially given her text right before I came over? I hate myself if so lol. Should I have just been straight up aggressive and asked her if she wants to go cuddle? I don't want to just out of the blue be trying to kiss her, which is why I would try to gradually get closer on her bed etc
These fuckin girls are giving me chances and I fuck it up and am left with nothing. And I just feel like I have no fucking clue how to make a move or what to do. I have a deep yearning not to miss out, them when a girl wants me the most and has said the most explicit things she could, I miss out.
just be yourself, maybe youre trying to hard
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On December 06 2013 05:27 Doodsmack wrote:
I've written two blogs about "I don't know girls" and this is right in line with those. Met a girl online and right from the get go, before we meet up, she seems into me. As far as text conversations go we must have had a pretty good one. At one point she said she recently bought a bottle of wine in the hopes that she could share it and acquire a taste for wine,
etc. I said things by text that I think really made her laugh (I am much better at being funny with a girl by text since I can take my time and think of the funniest thing). And also by the way we talked online, at one point she said "you seem very outgoing" which in reality I am usually very quiet, but maybe can do better with a girl as far as talking more.
So we meet up at a bar and have some wine, conversation seems to go pretty decently, she did laugh here and there. The goodbye was slightly awkward but that happens I guess. Soon after we leave she texts and says hey had a great time.
Then she starts saying some very favorable stuff - so I am 2nd date worthy eh, I really wanna cuddle but realize I should have self control, then I start saying me too yadda yadda and she says I would cuddle you, I say since we live close I could even come tonight, she says I am so ready to cuddle, I wanna have my room clean for you, I'll clean it tomorrow.
So, next night, we make plans for me to come to her place and have wine. I go over there, I think I kinda failed on the conversation here, I didn't really make her laugh or ask her a lot about her, it may have been boring serious conversation about random things, even about her tv and furniture, abut her guitar, her bookshelf, where her brother lives, etc.
So, I came into this night thinking we were definitely going to cuddle and make out. In her text where she gave me her address, immediately before I came over, she said "my room isn't perfect but it will do lol" (see above about her saying she'd clean her room so we could cuddle). But, and here's where I could be completely wrong, I read her as wanting to keep her distance a bit and really just have some wine and conversation, and then send me home so she could get to bed. Now, I admittedly don't have much of a clue how to make a move on a girl. I did two things that I thought might indicate I was trying to get closer, so she could move closer if she wanted. When sitting beside her on be couch, us both leaned forward, I leaned back and out my arm out over couch, so that it would be above her if she leaned back. She instead rotated a bit and stayed at the front edge if the couch. I read this as her not wanting to move in closer so I could make a move (but, she has a roommate who came out if her room at one point, so maybe if I were to make a move it could only have been in her room).
Then, we're in her room talking, and at one point I leaned back on the edge if her bed, but she remained standing a few feet away. I again thought that if she wanted to get closer then maybe she would have sat on the bed a bit like me. Eventually she started walking back out to the living room so we could just sit on the couch.
One other thing she did I interpreted as meaning she didn't want any physical contact was when I led us into her room by saying "why don't you show me your clean room", since she had said several times she would clean it so we could cuddle. She laughed with a tone like "it's funny you just said that" or "that wasn't a smooth way to do this". Didn't seem like a response that would indicate she wanted to do anything more than show me her room.
Eventually she just took out her phone while we were talking and said alright I need to go to bed, this like 1.5 hr after I got there.
Texted her about 3 hrs ago but no response, she usually responds kinda fast but could just be busy at work.
Did I fail completely by not making a move, especially given her text right before I came over? I hate myself if so lol. Should I have just been straight up aggressive and asked her if she wants to go cuddle? I don't want to just out of the blue be trying to kiss her, which is why I would try to gradually get closer on her bed etc
These fuckin girls are giving me chances and I fuck it up and am left with nothing. And I just feel like I have no fucking clue how to make a move or what to do. I have a deep yearning not to miss out, them when a girl wants me the most and has said the most explicit things she could, I miss out.
You sound too hesitant to make a mistake and ashamed when she calls you out for trying to make a move. You have to own your actions and be willing to just make a move without immediately retreating from it.
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Get "making a move" out of your head. If there is EVER a case where the next step isn't a natural extension of what you already did you fucked up the previous steps. Going from "Wow it's great talking to her" to "I somehow gotta kiss her" won't work in the vast majority of cases.
To put it super mechanically:
"Wow it's great talking to her" --> "I'm showing her that I'm attracted by brushing her arm or outer thighs from time to time" --> "I'm patting her on the head here or there / boxing her softly" --> "I'm having my hand rest on her thigh/arm for a moment" --> "I'm stroking her hair / tell her she smells nice / stroke her back and tell her she's tense *coughcough*" --> "I'm starting to massage her a bit / hold her hand for a while" --> "I'm massaging her more... sexually / Have her hand in my lap / keep touching all the time" --> "Oh well might as well kiss"
That's an example of a smooth escalation over maybe 3-4 hours (can vary, +/-2 is reasonable for most cases) after first meeting her.
That's also a HUGE reason to avoid for example meeting her at her place before you're at the stage where you're having casual and comfortable non-sexual contact for a while. It's just much easier to do the random things when walking somewhere or meeting at a public place than it is to do it on her couch.
tl;dr: Make smaller steps. If there's positive feedback, move one small step further. If there's negative feedback, move two steps back and one step forward. Work from there. If your physical escalation is not progressing in any shape or form it will most likely not end well. If there's negative feedback in a certain spot 2+ times, verbalize it.
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Wall of text inc
On December 06 2013 05:27 Doodsmack wrote:
I've written two blogs about "I don't know girls" and this is right in line with those. Met a girl online and right from the get go, before we meet up, she seems into me. As far as text conversations go we must have had a pretty good one. At one point she said she recently bought a bottle of wine in the hopes that she could share it and acquire a taste for wine,
etc. I said things by text that I think really made her laugh (I am much better at being funny with a girl by text since I can take my time and think of the funniest thing). And also by the way we talked online, at one point she said "you seem very outgoing" which in reality I am usually very quiet, but maybe can do better with a girl as far as talking more.
Doesn't mean much. It's a good skill to have, probably means you're an intelligent person but it won't get you very far by itself. Also don't text too much.
So we meet up at a bar and have some wine, conversation seems to go pretty decently, she did laugh here and there. The goodbye was slightly awkward but that happens I guess. Soon after we leave she texts and says hey had a great time.
Then she starts saying some very favorable stuff - so I am 2nd date worthy eh, I really wanna cuddle but realize I should have self control, then I start saying me too yadda yadda and she says I would cuddle you, I say since we live close I could even come tonight, she says I am so ready to cuddle, I wanna have my room clean for you, I'll clean it tomorrow.
So, next night, we make plans for me to come to her place and have wine. I go over there, I think I kinda failed on the conversation here, I didn't really make her laugh or ask her a lot about her, it may have been boring serious conversation about random things, even about her tv and furniture, abut her guitar, her bookshelf, where her brother lives, etc.
So it seems okay at this point. Maybe act quicker or do an activity before it turns out boring though. The usualstrategy is to do something out to rise the excitation up and then crash at her/your place.
Don't talk too much about stuff you don't really care. Her hobbies like guitar is a good subject though. Ask her to play, play yourself doing silly stuff, ask her to teach you a very simple thing.
To sum up, just do stuff rather than talk talk talk.
So, I came into this night thinking we were definitely going to cuddle and make out. In her text where she gave me her address, immediately before I came over, she said "my room isn't perfect but it will do lol" (see above about her saying she'd clean her room so we could cuddle). But, and here's where I could be completely wrong, I read her as wanting to keep her distance a bit and really just have some wine and conversation, and then send me home so she could get to bed.
You're overanalysing. What matters is she said yes to you coming over and it should be your only clue. Forget about that kind of little details that could mean 1000 different things.
Now, I admittedly don't have much of a clue how to make a move on a girl. I did two things that I thought might indicate I was trying to get closer, so she could move closer if she wanted. When sitting beside her on be couch, us both leaned forward, I leaned back and out my arm out over couch, so that it would be above her if she leaned back. She instead rotated a bit and stayed at the front edge if the couch. I read this as her not wanting to move in closer so I could make a move (but, she has a roommate who came out if her room at one point, so maybe if I were to make a move it could only have been in her room).
Maybe because that's not very subtle and a break of character. Hard to say just by that. Either way you should have tried to have more physical contact in the previous times so that it wouldn't be such a deal to "make a move". Which imo is a stupid way to put it. You should always be making moves, only their intensity should grow in time.
Then, we're in her room talking, and at one point I leaned back on the edge if her bed, but she remained standing a few feet away. I again thought that if she wanted to get closer then maybe she would have sat on the bed a bit like me. Eventually she started walking back out to the living room so we could just sit on the couch.
To be honest this is one of the hardest part. The thing is you need to find ways to be physical, otherwise if she's not comfortable with you touching her hand or arm how do you expect her to be comfortable kissing or having sex ?
Example: earlier I talked about the guitar, ask her to teach you and place your fingers. Yeah sure it's an obvious move but it acts as both a test and a way to get closer.
Why not have fun and do thumb fight at some point ? When she greeted you give a quick hug rather than a simple hello. That kind of stuff.
One other thing she did I interpreted as meaning she didn't want any physical contact was when I led us into her room by saying "why don't you show me your clean room", since she had said several times she would clean it so we could cuddle. She laughed with a tone like "it's funny you just said that" or "that wasn't a smooth way to do this". Didn't seem like a response that would indicate she wanted to do anything more than show me her room.
Your interpretation have opposite meanings so which one it is ? Doesn't really matter to be honest. By the way you could have used the opportunity to meet her roommate.
Eventually she just took out her phone while we were talking and said alright I need to go to bed, this like 1.5 hr after I got there.
Ugh.
Texted her about 3 hrs ago but no response, she usually responds kinda fast but could just be busy at work.
Did I fail completely by not making a move, especially given her text right before I came over? I hate myself if so lol. Should I have just been straight up aggressive and asked her if she wants to go cuddle? I don't want to just out of the blue be trying to kiss her, which is why I would try to gradually get closer on her bed etc
What did you texted her ? I'd have waited. Let it cool down and tried my luck a few days later. As for blowing it, yeah maybe but it happens all the time and sometimes it's not even your fault don't beat yourself for it too much. Just remember to be more "aggressive" next time, being more physical, and less trapped in your own head.
Edit: As you can see r.Evo and I propose the same kind of advice in different words. Myabe that kind of stuff should be put in OP at some point :p
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On December 06 2013 06:19 rezoacken wrote:
Edit: As you can see r.Evo and I propose the same kind of advice in different words. Myabe that kind of stuff should be put in OP at some point :p
but then you would have to change the title of the thread and we all know what happened to the last PUA threads
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Hmm yeah you're probably right, I think I understand.
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On December 06 2013 03:24 r.Evo wrote:
Edit: Wait, gg. Missed the "both virgins"-part. I mean, I have seen plenty "I'm almost 30 and a virgin" situations develop just fine but I really have an issue seeing two people like that fixing all their shit at the same time. Not that I don't believe it's possible but, yeah. I'd recommend moving on.
Yeah what you mentioned is def possible in the right circumstances. But that's just asking for trouble in this
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On December 06 2013 06:18 r.Evo wrote:
Get "making a move" out of your head. If there is EVER a case where the next step isn't a natural extension of what you already did you fucked up the previous steps. Going from "Wow it's great talking to her" to "I somehow gotta kiss her" won't work in the vast majority of cases.
To put it super mechanically:
"Wow it's great talking to her" --> "I'm showing her that I'm attracted by brushing her arm or outer thighs from time to time" --> "I'm patting her on the head here or there / boxing her softly" --> "I'm having my hand rest on her thigh/arm for a moment" --> "I'm stroking her hair / tell her she smells nice / stroke her back and tell her she's tense *coughcough*" --> "I'm starting to massage her a bit / hold her hand for a while" --> "I'm massaging her more... sexually / Have her hand in my lap / keep touching all the time" --> "Oh well might as well kiss"
That's an example of a smooth escalation over maybe 3-4 hours (can vary, +/-2 is reasonable for most cases) after first meeting her.
That's also a HUGE reason to avoid for example meeting her at her place before you're at the stage where you're having casual and comfortable non-sexual contact for a while. It's just much easier to do the random things when walking somewhere or meeting at a public place than it is to do it on her couch.
tl;dr: Make smaller steps. If there's positive feedback, move one small step further. If there's negative feedback, move two steps back and one step forward. Work from there. If your physical escalation is not progressing in any shape or form it will most likely not end well. If there's negative feedback in a certain spot 2+ times, verbalize it.
There's too much thinking going on here. Just adopt the "fuck it" attitude and give the girl a kiss at the end of the first or second date. Don't swallow her face, but at least give her a solid smooch on the cheek. If she's laughing at all of your jokes, kiss her on the mouth. You'll learn real fast where you stand. Even if she's not interested, she'll be flattered at your interest and be polite in telling you that she's not interested. Hell, in some cases, you'll end up sleeping with the girl that night.
EDIT: Just to be clear, there's nothing necessarily wrong with what r.Evo is saying. However, it's not really practical advice that can be easily employed by someone who doesn't really know what he's doing yet.
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On December 06 2013 07:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 06:18 r.Evo wrote:
Get "making a move" out of your head. If there is EVER a case where the next step isn't a natural extension of what you already did you fucked up the previous steps. Going from "Wow it's great talking to her" to "I somehow gotta kiss her" won't work in the vast majority of cases.
To put it super mechanically:
"Wow it's great talking to her" --> "I'm showing her that I'm attracted by brushing her arm or outer thighs from time to time" --> "I'm patting her on the head here or there / boxing her softly" --> "I'm having my hand rest on her thigh/arm for a moment" --> "I'm stroking her hair / tell her she smells nice / stroke her back and tell her she's tense *coughcough*" --> "I'm starting to massage her a bit / hold her hand for a while" --> "I'm massaging her more... sexually / Have her hand in my lap / keep touching all the time" --> "Oh well might as well kiss"
That's an example of a smooth escalation over maybe 3-4 hours (can vary, +/-2 is reasonable for most cases) after first meeting her.
That's also a HUGE reason to avoid for example meeting her at her place before you're at the stage where you're having casual and comfortable non-sexual contact for a while. It's just much easier to do the random things when walking somewhere or meeting at a public place than it is to do it on her couch.
tl;dr: Make smaller steps. If there's positive feedback, move one small step further. If there's negative feedback, move two steps back and one step forward. Work from there. If your physical escalation is not progressing in any shape or form it will most likely not end well. If there's negative feedback in a certain spot 2+ times, verbalize it. There's too much thinking going on here. Just adopt the "fuck it" attitude and give the girl a kiss at the end of the first or second date. Don't swallow her face, but at least give her a solid smooch on the cheek. If she's laughing at all of your jokes, kiss her on the mouth. You'll learn real fast where you stand. Even if she's not interested, she'll be flattered at your interest and be polite in telling you that she's not interested. Hell, in some cases, you'll end up sleeping with the girl that night. EDIT: Just to be clear, there's nothing necessarily wrong with what r.Evo is saying. However, it's not really practical advice that can be easily employed by someone who doesn't really know what he's doing yet.
You're telling someone who is afraid of spiders to just fucking take a spider in his hand. I'm telling him that he needs lots of small steps before that to make taking a spider into his hand nothing to worry about.
Both are completely valid and practical approaches for different people and mindsets, but based on him retreating out of any advancement almost instantly I'm assuming that someone already gave him the former advice and it apparently doesn't work for him.
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On December 06 2013 08:04 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 07:47 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2013 06:18 r.Evo wrote:
Get "making a move" out of your head. If there is EVER a case where the next step isn't a natural extension of what you already did you fucked up the previous steps. Going from "Wow it's great talking to her" to "I somehow gotta kiss her" won't work in the vast majority of cases.
To put it super mechanically:
"Wow it's great talking to her" --> "I'm showing her that I'm attracted by brushing her arm or outer thighs from time to time" --> "I'm patting her on the head here or there / boxing her softly" --> "I'm having my hand rest on her thigh/arm for a moment" --> "I'm stroking her hair / tell her she smells nice / stroke her back and tell her she's tense *coughcough*" --> "I'm starting to massage her a bit / hold her hand for a while" --> "I'm massaging her more... sexually / Have her hand in my lap / keep touching all the time" --> "Oh well might as well kiss"
That's an example of a smooth escalation over maybe 3-4 hours (can vary, +/-2 is reasonable for most cases) after first meeting her.
That's also a HUGE reason to avoid for example meeting her at her place before you're at the stage where you're having casual and comfortable non-sexual contact for a while. It's just much easier to do the random things when walking somewhere or meeting at a public place than it is to do it on her couch.
tl;dr: Make smaller steps. If there's positive feedback, move one small step further. If there's negative feedback, move two steps back and one step forward. Work from there. If your physical escalation is not progressing in any shape or form it will most likely not end well. If there's negative feedback in a certain spot 2+ times, verbalize it. There's too much thinking going on here. Just adopt the "fuck it" attitude and give the girl a kiss at the end of the first or second date. Don't swallow her face, but at least give her a solid smooch on the cheek. If she's laughing at all of your jokes, kiss her on the mouth. You'll learn real fast where you stand. Even if she's not interested, she'll be flattered at your interest and be polite in telling you that she's not interested. Hell, in some cases, you'll end up sleeping with the girl that night. EDIT: Just to be clear, there's nothing necessarily wrong with what r.Evo is saying. However, it's not really practical advice that can be easily employed by someone who doesn't really know what he's doing yet. You're telling someone who is afraid of spiders to just fucking take a spider in his hand. I'm telling him that he needs lots of small steps before that to make taking a spider into his hand nothing to worry about. Both are completely valid and practical approaches for different people and mindsets, but based on him retreating out of any advancement almost instantly I'm assuming that someone already gave him the former advice and it apparently doesn't work for him.
Yeah, I know it's a bit counter-intuitive to just take the leap of faith, but I strongly believe that that is still the right way to go. A guy who is afraid of doing it (and I know because I was one of those guys) is going to have a really, really hard time playing the subtle feedback game that you're describing and properly interpreting what the girl is trying to tell him. Hell, the whole reason why the guy is afraid to kiss the girl is because he really has no idea what the girl is thinking and is afraid of how she will respond. Hell, looking back at my dating life retrospectively I want to kick myself for all of the times that I didn't just man up and do something when the opportunity was obviously there, but I was too inept to realize it at the time.
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I side with r.Evo. The slow build-up approach he describes is way better. In the past it's worked extremely well for me.
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On December 06 2013 08:12 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 08:04 r.Evo wrote:On December 06 2013 07:47 xDaunt wrote:On December 06 2013 06:18 r.Evo wrote:
Get "making a move" out of your head. If there is EVER a case where the next step isn't a natural extension of what you already did you fucked up the previous steps. Going from "Wow it's great talking to her" to "I somehow gotta kiss her" won't work in the vast majority of cases.
To put it super mechanically:
"Wow it's great talking to her" --> "I'm showing her that I'm attracted by brushing her arm or outer thighs from time to time" --> "I'm patting her on the head here or there / boxing her softly" --> "I'm having my hand rest on her thigh/arm for a moment" --> "I'm stroking her hair / tell her she smells nice / stroke her back and tell her she's tense *coughcough*" --> "I'm starting to massage her a bit / hold her hand for a while" --> "I'm massaging her more... sexually / Have her hand in my lap / keep touching all the time" --> "Oh well might as well kiss"
That's an example of a smooth escalation over maybe 3-4 hours (can vary, +/-2 is reasonable for most cases) after first meeting her.
That's also a HUGE reason to avoid for example meeting her at her place before you're at the stage where you're having casual and comfortable non-sexual contact for a while. It's just much easier to do the random things when walking somewhere or meeting at a public place than it is to do it on her couch.
tl;dr: Make smaller steps. If there's positive feedback, move one small step further. If there's negative feedback, move two steps back and one step forward. Work from there. If your physical escalation is not progressing in any shape or form it will most likely not end well. If there's negative feedback in a certain spot 2+ times, verbalize it. There's too much thinking going on here. Just adopt the "fuck it" attitude and give the girl a kiss at the end of the first or second date. Don't swallow her face, but at least give her a solid smooch on the cheek. If she's laughing at all of your jokes, kiss her on the mouth. You'll learn real fast where you stand. Even if she's not interested, she'll be flattered at your interest and be polite in telling you that she's not interested. Hell, in some cases, you'll end up sleeping with the girl that night. EDIT: Just to be clear, there's nothing necessarily wrong with what r.Evo is saying. However, it's not really practical advice that can be easily employed by someone who doesn't really know what he's doing yet. You're telling someone who is afraid of spiders to just fucking take a spider in his hand. I'm telling him that he needs lots of small steps before that to make taking a spider into his hand nothing to worry about. Both are completely valid and practical approaches for different people and mindsets, but based on him retreating out of any advancement almost instantly I'm assuming that someone already gave him the former advice and it apparently doesn't work for him. Yeah, I know it's a bit counter-intuitive to just take the leap of faith, but I strongly believe that that is still the right way to go. A guy who is afraid of doing it (and I know because I was one of those guys) is going to have a really, really hard time playing the subtle feedback game that you're describing and properly interpreting what the girl is trying to tell him. Hell, the whole reason why the guy is afraid to kiss the girl is because he really has no idea what the girl is thinking and is afraid of how she will respond. Hell, looking back at my dating life retrospectively I want to kick myself for all of the times that I didn't just man up and do something when the opportunity was obviously there, but I was too inept to realize it at the time.
You're missing my point. Both are valid ways, but they are valid for different personalities. We're talking about two fundamentally different approaches to any kind of phobia which can be extended to anything someone is afraid of.
The main reason I wrote it out en detail is because apparently the "just do it" doesn't work for him, so let's see if a different approach is useful for him. When the water is cold it doesn't matter whether you just jump into it or whether you slowly walk and try to adjust yourself. What matters is that you end up swimming and that the way you're going there isn't so terrifying that you have to back out half-way. If one of those approaches feels better and has therefor a higher chance of achieving those goals, go for it.
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[QUOTE]On December 06 2013 05:27 Doodsmack wrote:
I've written two blogs about "I don't know girls" and this is right in line with those. Met a girl online and right from the get go, before we meet up, she seems into me. As far as text conversations go we must have had a pretty good one. At one point she said she recently bought a bottle of wine in the hopes that she could share it and acquire a taste for wine,
etc. I said things by text that I think really made her laugh (I am much better at being funny with a girl by text since I can take my time and think of the funniest thing). And also by the way we talked online, at one point she said "you seem very outgoing" which in reality I am usually very quiet, but maybe can do better with a girl as far as talking more.
So we meet up at a bar and have some wine, conversation seems to go pretty decently, she did laugh here and there. The goodbye was slightly awkward but that happens I guess. Soon after we leave she texts and says hey had a great time.
Then she starts saying some very favorable stuff - so I am 2nd date worthy eh, I really wanna cuddle but realize I should have self control, then I start saying me too yadda yadda and she says I would cuddle you, I say since we live close I could even come tonight, she says I am so ready to cuddle, I wanna have my room clean for you, I'll clean it tomorrow.
So, next night, we make plans for me to come to her place and have wine. I go over there, I think I kinda failed on the conversation here, I didn't really make her laugh or ask her a lot about her, it may have been boring serious conversation about random things, even about her tv and furniture, abut her guitar, her bookshelf, where her brother lives, etc.
So, I came into this night thinking we were definitely going to cuddle and make out. In her text where she gave me her address, immediately before I came over, she said "my room isn't perfect but it will do lol" (see above about her saying she'd clean her room so we could cuddle). But, and here's where I could be completely wrong, I read her as wanting to keep her distance a bit and really just have some wine and conversation, and then send me home so she could get to bed. Now, I admittedly don't have much of a clue how to make a move on a girl. I did two things that I thought might indicate I was trying to get closer, so she could move closer if she wanted. When sitting beside her on be couch, us both leaned forward, I leaned back and out my arm out over couch, so that it would be above her if she leaned back. She instead rotated a bit and stayed at the front edge if the couch. I read this as her not wanting to move in closer so I could make a move (but, she has a roommate who came out if her room at one point, so maybe if I were to make a move it could only have been in her room).
Then, we're in her room talking, and at one point I leaned back on the edge if her bed, but she remained standing a few feet away. I again thought that if she wanted to get closer then maybe she would have sat on the bed a bit like me. Eventually she started walking back out to the living room so we could just sit on the couch.
One other thing she did I interpreted as meaning she didn't want any physical contact was when I led us into her room by saying "why don't you show me your clean room", since she had said several times she would clean it so we could cuddle. She laughed with a tone like "it's funny you just said that" or "that wasn't a smooth way to do this". Didn't seem like a response that would indicate she wanted to do anything more than show me her room.
Eventually she just took out her phone while we were talking and said alright I need to go to bed, this like 1.5 hr after I got there.
Texted her about 3 hrs ago but no response, she usually responds kinda fast but could just be busy at work.
Did I fail completely by not making a move, especially given her text right before I came over? I hate myself if so lol. Should I have just been straight up aggressive and asked her if she wants to go cuddle? I don't want to just out of the blue be trying to kiss her, which is why I would try to gradually get closer on her bed etc
These fuckin girls are giving me chances and I fuck it up and am left with nothing. And I just feel like I have no fucking clue how to make a move or what to do. I have a deep yearning not to miss out, them when a girl wants me the most and has said the most explicit things she could, I miss out.[/QUOTE
Try not to overanalyze things. Act naturally and base your actions on your feelings. I do agree that making slowly escalating physical contact is a good way to test the waters but you shouldn't think of it as a step by step thing that you should follow, like a machine. Just be confident in yourself and your actions. Girls like guys who are sure of themselves, confidence is sexy.
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Thanks for the good advice guys. I tend to think the slow build-up approach is superior but more difficult and I would need to work my way up to that skill level. I have actually done the kiss on the cheek thing before. The slow build-up is probably for girls that the only way to compete for them is to have that skill...because they are good looking enough that they get the most skilled guys. In my limited experience girls aren't necessarily skilled themselves, and sometimes the two of us have gone straight for a kiss as if we both had it on our mind.
I actually straight up asked the girl if I should have made a move and fucked it up. She responded and said I should not really have made a move, and that she was wrong to be so forward beforehand, and after being forward she had decided we should get to know each other as friends first instead, because that's the best way to do online dating in her eyes. Not sure if she is just trying to salvage what we have left. I do think that if I had known what I was doing with escalation, it would have worked. She fucking directly insinuated immediately prior to me coming over that we were going to be cuddling in her room lol. What a fail
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EPT
