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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On August 14 2013 02:29 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't.
It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. I was going to try and explain why I think your line of reasoning is poor, but I think I'll let you explain it yourself Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 21:23 Killscreen wrote:
I would be really pissed off if I found out a girl I just slept with was a biological male. Most guys would feel the same way. Wether or not I am entiteled to be pissed is beside the point; the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would tell me ) and did it anyway. The rationale being that her need for sex outweighs my need to not have sex with men, a need I dont have to defend to anyone.
It's selfish and wrong. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 21:23 Killscreen wrote:
I would be really pissed off if I found out a girl I was dating left me for someone else. Most guys would feel the same way. Wether or not I am entiteled to be pissed is beside the point; the girl knew I would be pissed ( or she would have broken up with be earlier ) and did it anyway. The rationale being that her need for a better guy outweighs my need to date a girl, a need I don't have to defend to anyone.
It's selfish and wrong. Morality doesn't really get decided by vote but as you pointed out, usually you can judge how the other person will react and if the girl knew you would be pissed and still led you on, that's not really a great way to treat others. It's tricky to decide whether something is right or wrong (evolution, not telling someone you are trans, leaving a man for another one) but "Wether or not I am entiteled to be pissed is beside the point; the girl knew I would be pissed" and that's what makes it shitty
The difference being that breaking up with someone will always piss them off. It can't be helped. If you want to apply that line of reasoning here you would be saying that breaking up with someone is always wrong because its wrong to hurt people and piss them off.
There is also a fundamental difference between misrepresenting who you are as a person in order to get laid and lying to protect the feelings of someone you care about.
edit: about the misrepresenting, I don't mean "representing yourself as woman when you are a man", I mean that being a trans person is a significant part of who you are.
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On August 14 2013 19:32 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 06:42 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship.
And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand.
I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. My point, which you have either missed or deliberately ignored, is that you are using a spurious definition of the word "shitty". On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:
And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. It would be considered "shitty" behavior if a man left his girlfriend for someone else too. Sex, and therefore, misogyny, has no relevance to this discussion. You really wanna argue over the semantics of "shitty"? Let's just use "wrong", or "unethical", and this entire debate boils down to the semantics of those words; is it, or is it not "shitty". Let's examine a few hypotheticals: A girl is in the midst of her final exams, and her boyfriend decides its time to end it. He decides to wait till she is done, so that she can focus on her exams without distractions. He flirts with some girls, get's some phone numbers and intends to pursue them, but does not have sex with them. Is he an asshole? A woman is thinking of leaving her boyfriend. She is not sure, but she is thinking about it. During this time she develops feelings for someone in her life. Could be co-worker, friend of a friend, personal trainer or whatever. She did not actively pursue other people, but it happened. Finally, she decides it's time to end it. Is she a bad person? A woman is with a man just because he is rich, or because she needs a visa, or whatever. She keeps stringing him along, but is actually actively pursuing other options. Is she a bad person? I would say no, no and yes. My point being that it isn't black and white. You cant make a set of rules that can be applied to every single situation to determine right or wrong. It can be shitty, and it can be OK. It's entirely contextual, and that's my point. Leaving someone for someone else in and of itself is not wrong.
I think the line is drawn at the point between breaking up with someone because the relationship is no longer working, and breaking up with someone because you want to get together with another person.
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On August 14 2013 23:15 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:32 Killscreen wrote:On August 14 2013 06:42 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this:
Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom.
Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition.
Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't.
Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. My point, which you have either missed or deliberately ignored, is that you are using a spurious definition of the word "shitty". On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:
And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. It would be considered "shitty" behavior if a man left his girlfriend for someone else too. Sex, and therefore, misogyny, has no relevance to this discussion. You really wanna argue over the semantics of "shitty"? Let's just use "wrong", or "unethical", and this entire debate boils down to the semantics of those words; is it, or is it not "shitty". Let's examine a few hypotheticals: A girl is in the midst of her final exams, and her boyfriend decides its time to end it. He decides to wait till she is done, so that she can focus on her exams without distractions. He flirts with some girls, get's some phone numbers and intends to pursue them, but does not have sex with them. Is he an asshole? A woman is thinking of leaving her boyfriend. She is not sure, but she is thinking about it. During this time she develops feelings for someone in her life. Could be co-worker, friend of a friend, personal trainer or whatever. She did not actively pursue other people, but it happened. Finally, she decides it's time to end it. Is she a bad person? A woman is with a man just because he is rich, or because she needs a visa, or whatever. She keeps stringing him along, but is actually actively pursuing other options. Is she a bad person? I would say no, no and yes. My point being that it isn't black and white. You cant make a set of rules that can be applied to every single situation to determine right or wrong. It can be shitty, and it can be OK. It's entirely contextual, and that's my point. Leaving someone for someone else in and of itself is not wrong. I think the line is drawn at the point between breaking up with someone because the relationship is no longer working, and breaking up with someone because you want to get together with another person.
The way I see it is that not wanting to be in a relationship with anyone else is a prerequisite to a working monogamous relationship. So if you want to be in a relationship with someone else, your original relationship could not have been working to begin with. That's just me though, and others may have different definitions.
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On August 14 2013 23:47 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:15 Najda wrote:On August 14 2013 19:32 Killscreen wrote:On August 14 2013 06:42 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. My point, which you have either missed or deliberately ignored, is that you are using a spurious definition of the word "shitty". On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:
And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. It would be considered "shitty" behavior if a man left his girlfriend for someone else too. Sex, and therefore, misogyny, has no relevance to this discussion. You really wanna argue over the semantics of "shitty"? Let's just use "wrong", or "unethical", and this entire debate boils down to the semantics of those words; is it, or is it not "shitty". Let's examine a few hypotheticals: A girl is in the midst of her final exams, and her boyfriend decides its time to end it. He decides to wait till she is done, so that she can focus on her exams without distractions. He flirts with some girls, get's some phone numbers and intends to pursue them, but does not have sex with them. Is he an asshole? A woman is thinking of leaving her boyfriend. She is not sure, but she is thinking about it. During this time she develops feelings for someone in her life. Could be co-worker, friend of a friend, personal trainer or whatever. She did not actively pursue other people, but it happened. Finally, she decides it's time to end it. Is she a bad person? A woman is with a man just because he is rich, or because she needs a visa, or whatever. She keeps stringing him along, but is actually actively pursuing other options. Is she a bad person? I would say no, no and yes. My point being that it isn't black and white. You cant make a set of rules that can be applied to every single situation to determine right or wrong. It can be shitty, and it can be OK. It's entirely contextual, and that's my point. Leaving someone for someone else in and of itself is not wrong. I think the line is drawn at the point between breaking up with someone because the relationship is no longer working, and breaking up with someone because you want to get together with another person. The way I see it is that not wanting to be in a relationship with anyone else is a prerequisite to a working monogamous relationship. So if you want to be in a relationship with someone else, your original relationship could not have been working to begin with. That's just me though, and others may have different definitions.
While there is some truth to that, it could just be a rough patch in the relationship and the other girl only seems better because it's still early in the interaction between you two. The grass is always greener sort of thing. Then a month later you realize the new girl and yourself aren't compatible, and because of the way you ended it with the first, you have no chance there either.
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On August 14 2013 19:32 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 06:42 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:
[quote]
It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship.
And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand.
I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. My point, which you have either missed or deliberately ignored, is that you are using a spurious definition of the word "shitty". On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:
And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. It would be considered "shitty" behavior if a man left his girlfriend for someone else too. Sex, and therefore, misogyny, has no relevance to this discussion. You really wanna argue over the semantics of "shitty"? Let's just use "wrong", or "unethical", and this entire debate boils down to the semantics of those words; is it, or is it not "shitty".
"Shitty" was your choice of words:
On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person
The simple idea here is that you are arguing it is not "shitty", whereas I am arguing that my assumption that this type of behavior is "shitty" is completely reasonable as most people would define it.
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On August 15 2013 04:21 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:32 Killscreen wrote:On August 14 2013 06:42 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 11:36 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this:
Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom.
Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition.
Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't.
Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Your philosophical views have no relevance to the original discussion, which is whether or not cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person. It is readily apparent that according to most people's definition of "shitty person", the answer is yes. This is why I brought up society a few posts back; to indicate to you that you are playing semantics and changing definitions from their common usage in order to suit your argument. If your argument is that you don't consider cheating on your partner to be shitty, then that would be reasonable. However, this doesn't change the fact that most people would consider this to be shitty behavior, so my original "assumption" that cheating on your partner makes you a shitty person (by most people's standards, a clarification wouldn't need to be said if not for nitpickers like you) stands. It doesn't get decided by a vote. The fact that most people would agree with something doesn't make it true. Most people in your society believe evolution is bullshit, so that must be true too then. My point, which you have either missed or deliberately ignored, is that you are using a spurious definition of the word "shitty". On August 13 2013 18:10 Killscreen wrote:
And lets be clear; we are discussing whether or not flirting with someone other than your partner is cheating, not whether or not it's OK to sleep with other people behind their back. Our hypothetical situation is a women leaves a man for someone else. My view is that this in itself doesn't make her a bad person, and I am not convinced she is a bad person because she violated some unwritten contract dictated by a misogynistic and outdated model of human interaction. It would be considered "shitty" behavior if a man left his girlfriend for someone else too. Sex, and therefore, misogyny, has no relevance to this discussion. You really wanna argue over the semantics of "shitty"? Let's just use "wrong", or "unethical", and this entire debate boils down to the semantics of those words; is it, or is it not "shitty". "Shitty" was your choice of words:
I don't think it was, but whatever. Let's just say it was and move on. If I'm going to argue semantics, at least I want to do so with a proper word, not a slang term, that is all I meant.
Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person The simple idea here is that you are arguing it is not "shitty", whereas I am arguing that my assumption that this type of behavior is "shitty" is completely reasonable as most people would define it.
So you are basically saying "I am right because I assume most people agree with me". Is evolution wrong because "most people" agree with that it is? You'll have to do better than that.. Even if you are right, and most people agree, morality is not the same thing as consensus.
What did you think about the hypothetical situations i posted?
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I think when you are talking about whether something is commonly accepted, whether it is commonly accepted is important.
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On August 16 2013 06:10 WarSame wrote:
I think when you are talking about whether something is commonly accepted, whether it is commonly accepted is important.
Don't be silly now
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Ugh.. well my situation has changed massively from being the loner with nothing going for him to shit load of drama >.>
Friend introduced me to a girl, we got on well and I like her. Problem is she is obsessed with my friend, and wont take a no for an answer and even going into full breakdown mode over it. I have been pushed majorly into the friend zone on this part.. sigh
Again I met another girl on a night out, whom the previous two work with. Got on well throughout the whole night, dancing together, lots of those looks. Made the move and she went along with it, got some privacy and yea.. Next day we talk a little, agree we went to far and wont tell anyone. Thinking she is OK with everything, I hoped to get to know her more but all of a sudden she disappears from my FB, blocked I guess.. day after unblocked I think and just unfriended..
Sooo.. FML still, didn't think there would be so much drama on this part..
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On August 17 2013 20:17 Kerotan89 wrote:
Ugh.. well my situation has changed massively from being the loner with nothing going for him to shit load of drama >.>
Friend introduced me to a girl, we got on well and I like her. Problem is she is obsessed with my friend, and wont take a no for an answer and even going into full breakdown mode over it. I have been pushed majorly into the friend zone on this part.. sigh
Again I met another girl on a night out, whom the previous two work with. Got on well throughout the whole night, dancing together, lots of those looks. Made the move and she went along with it, got some privacy and yea.. Next day we talk a little, agree we went to far and wont tell anyone. Thinking she is OK with everything, I hoped to get to know her more but all of a sudden she disappears from my FB, blocked I guess.. day after unblocked I think and just unfriended..
Sooo.. FML still, didn't think there would be so much drama on this part..
You learn more by that than not doing anything. Keep trying, the drama can be fun at times 
Good luck!
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Get a mirror. Look into it. Lift them dumbells. Get horny. Fap till you drop. Bitches gun cray. Happy days~
That's my ritual. Works like a charm I have to say. RIP Nerdphase
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Damnit. There is this one girl that just makes me nervous and feel insecure. When I'm with her I can only think about the things I am not. Yet she seems to be into me. When her boyfriend broke up with her she showed an interest in me but at the same time I could tell she wasn't over him so I didn't try to persue her. This week I was invited to basically party with my friends in another city where they'll be studying next year and she lives in the same house as said friend. When she heard I got invited I got a text message from her out of nowhere basically saying she was excited to see me. Hell, she subtly told me I could sleep at her place!
This is the conversation:
Her: "My name!!!!!! What did I hear, will you be coming to ......"
Me: "Yesss, I'll be party crashing tonight"
Her: "Aaahh funn"
Her: "Sleeping at ....... place?"
Me: "I certainly hope so, otherwise I'd have no place to sleep, haha"
Her: "hahaha"
Her: "You can always sleep next door(her place)!"
Her friend that showed up last minute and needed a place to sleep definitely ruined that for me. But the biggest problem was that I didn't take action because I'm an idiot. When I went home I texted it was fun. She agreed, gives me this kiss smiley and tells me she'll keep me in her thoughts tonight(She was going to some party)
She is just so damn beautiful it's unreal. Everybody knows THAT girl. Welp, that's her. Take your prettiest movie star and I can earnestly say she is just as beautiful if not more. I've just sat here for the last 2 hours thinking if I should ask her out. Our last topic was shopping for clothes. I really should ask her to come shopping with me.
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Went shopping with this girl. While turning around, she brushed my dick, glanced at me for a split second, smiled and pretended nothing happen. Should I tease her about it?
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Just broke up with my gf of four years -.-
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On August 18 2013 02:45 Argoth. wrote:
Just broke up with my gf of four years -.-
Damnit, I'm sorry man. Find a stuffed animal and cuddle the stuffing out of it.
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On August 18 2013 02:26 Recognizable wrote:
Damnit. There is this one girl that just makes me nervous and feel insecure. When I'm with her I can only think about the things I am not. Yet she seems to be into me. When her boyfriend broke up with her she showed an interest in me but at the same time I could tell she wasn't over him so I didn't try to persue her. This week I was invited to basically party with my friends in another city where they'll be studying next year and she lives in the same house as said friend. When she heard I got invited I got a text message from her out of nowhere basically saying she was excited to see me. Hell, she subtly told me I could sleep at her place!
This is the conversation:
Her: "My name!!!!!! What did I hear, will you be coming to ......"
Me: "Yesss, I'll be party crashing tonight"
Her: "Aaahh funn"
Her: "Sleeping at ....... place?"
Me: "I certainly hope so, otherwise I'd have no place to sleep, haha"
Her: "hahaha"
Her: "You can always sleep next door(her place)!"
Her friend that showed up last minute and needed a place to sleep definitely ruined that for me. But the biggest problem was that I didn't take action because I'm an idiot. When I went home I texted it was fun. She agreed, gives me this kiss smiley and tells me she'll keep me in her thoughts tonight(She was going to some party)
She is just so damn beautiful it's unreal. Everybody knows THAT girl. Welp, that's her. Take your prettiest movie star and I can earnestly say she is just as beautiful if not more. I've just sat here for the last 2 hours thinking if I should ask her out. Our last topic was shopping for clothes. I really should ask her to come shopping with me.
If you want her you gotta drop that loser attitude bro.
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Of. I know that. I guess it's just a testament of how nervous she makes me feel. I've never had this in my life.
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Call her right now, ask her out, and report back here in 5 minutes. Just do it, you get rejected 100% of the times you don't ask, and it sounds like you wont get rejected (at least hard for sure) if you do.
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On August 18 2013 02:26 Recognizable wrote:
Damnit. There is this one girl that just makes me nervous and feel insecure. When I'm with her I can only think about the things I am not. Yet she seems to be into me. When her boyfriend broke up with her she showed an interest in me but at the same time I could tell she wasn't over him so I didn't try to persue her. This week I was invited to basically party with my friends in another city where they'll be studying next year and she lives in the same house as said friend. When she heard I got invited I got a text message from her out of nowhere basically saying she was excited to see me. Hell, she subtly told me I could sleep at her place!
This is the conversation:
Her: "My name!!!!!! What did I hear, will you be coming to ......"
Me: "Yesss, I'll be party crashing tonight"
Her: "Aaahh funn"
Her: "Sleeping at ....... place?"
Me: "I certainly hope so, otherwise I'd have no place to sleep, haha"
Her: "hahaha"
Her: "You can always sleep next door(her place)!"
Her friend that showed up last minute and needed a place to sleep definitely ruined that for me. But the biggest problem was that I didn't take action because I'm an idiot. When I went home I texted it was fun. She agreed, gives me this kiss smiley and tells me she'll keep me in her thoughts tonight(She was going to some party)
She is just so damn beautiful it's unreal. Everybody knows THAT girl. Welp, that's her. Take your prettiest movie star and I can earnestly say she is just as beautiful if not more. I've just sat here for the last 2 hours thinking if I should ask her out. Our last topic was shopping for clothes. I really should ask her to come shopping with me.
Seems like she likes you. You should just go for it. You don't need to change anything about yourself since she already likes you.
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On August 18 2013 03:20 MaxField wrote:
Call her right now, ask her out, and report back here in 5 minutes. Just do it, you get rejected 100% of the times you don't ask, and it sounds like you wont get rejected (at least hard for sure) if you do.
Listen to Wayne Gretsky here.
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EPT
