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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
Northern Ireland26955 Posts
Mentally re-wire yourself, treat girls just as you'd treat your guy friends.
They really aren't the alien species that some think they are, and they respond better to that than to people who are terrified/mystified with girls
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I'd say to embrace your awkwardness. A lot of girls I know find at least a little awkwardness to be cute. For me whenever I'm nervous talking about something, I just verbalize it. Tell her you're really nervous. It will break the ice and make her feel good that you are interested in her enough to be slightly intimidated by her.
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Regarding the awkwardness, I got an idea the other day, but I dare not try it out since I'm married 
Overdress a quite a bit, with shined shoes, a tie and so on.
Get on the bus or whatever downtown.
Look nervous (shouldn't be too hard considering).
Get eye contact with random person (of preferable sex), approach them after a while and say something on the line.
- "I'm going speed dating tonight, but I don't want to screw up, can I practice with you first."
Now if said person doesn't tell you to get lost (or draw weapons), some progress should have been achieved.
Otherwise, just get off at the first stop :p
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On April 20 2013 03:49 lungic wrote:Regarding the awkwardness, I got an idea the other day, but I dare not try it out since I'm married Overdress a quite a bit, with shined shoes, a tie and so on. Get on the bus or whatever downtown. Look nervous (shouldn't be too hard considering). Get eye contact with random person (of preferable sex), approach them after a while and say something on the line. - "I'm going speed dating tonight, but I don't want to screw up, can I practice with you first." Now if said person doesn't tell you to get lost (or draw weapons), some progress should have been achieved. Otherwise, just get off at the first stop :p
Brilliant.
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On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit
I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman.
And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them.
And for being photogenic or not, there is a thread on TL for men's fashion. :p
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Whenever I read this thread (ultimately to get a good laugh every now and then) I wonder if you people are actually afraid of getting shot down or is it something else entirely.
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No luck dates 
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On April 20 2013 06:41 Pulselol wrote:
Whenever I read this thread (ultimately to get a good laugh every now and then) I wonder if you people are actually afraid of getting shot down or is it something else entirely.
I think it's less rejection, more afraid of leaving comfort zone.
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I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane)
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For any of you who seem to have any issues approaching women, read this. Otherwise, ignore. + Show Spoiler +Gentlemen, you are the last of the line of many manly men who all found ways to procreate, even in much tougher climates and much harsher lifestyles than you currently live in. You are bred from the blood of champions. Fucking act like it.
Mr Grumbels, ask her out for coffee/tea. Simple. It can just be a friendly cup of coffee to talk her in a 1 on 1 setting, or it can lead to more, depending on what you both want. Or it could be going out for an ice cream, lunch, whatever. Honestly, it doesn't matter. It really doesn't. If she's interested, she'll find a way to make time to see you, all you have to do is ask.
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On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane)
You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much.
Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her.
Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already.
On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them.
Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC.
Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys".
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The best relationship I ever had was with myself realizing I spent way too much time chasing something that in the end, isn't such a great thing to have any way :D
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On April 20 2013 09:18 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane) You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much. Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her. Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already. Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them. Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC. Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys".
lol... if I tell someone "treat women like they are people" that isn't dating advice, it's just regular advice.
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On April 20 2013 09:33 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 09:18 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane) You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much. Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her. Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already. On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them. Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC. Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys". lol... if I tell someone "treat women like they are people" that isn't dating advice, it's just regular advice.
And it's poor advice in the context of a thread on dating, even if it's good policy in general.
"Treating women like they're people" will not lead to romantic/sexual success, unless the way you already treat people in general leads to them being attracted to you. What you're essentially doing is telling people to "be themselves", even though that's not actually working. On top of that, the reality is that treating women as if you are superior to them (even if you believe them to be equals) will lead to you being perceived as attractive.
After all, you clearly believe in "treating women like they're people", and how's that working for you? Oh, right, you're freaking out about how to close the deal with a girl who supposedly already likes you and has made an effort to spend time with you. Meanwhile, men like me who treat girls they're interested in as inferior do just fine. Hell, even serial killers are more attractive to women than nice guys like you.
TL;DR: You should "treat women like people"... unless you're trying to attract them. That might sound messed up, but this is simply how humans work.
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On April 20 2013 09:43 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 09:33 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 09:18 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane) You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much. Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her. Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already. On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them. Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC. Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys". lol... if I tell someone "treat women like they are people" that isn't dating advice, it's just regular advice. And it's poor advice in the context of a thread on dating, even if it's good policy in general. "Treating women like they're people" will not lead to romantic/sexual success, unless the way you already treat people in general leads to them being attracted to you. What you're essentially doing is telling people to "be themselves", even though that's not actually working. On top of that, the reality is that treating women as if you are superior to them (even if you believe them to be equals) will lead to you being perceived as attractive. After all, you clearly believe in "treating women like they're people", and how's that working for you? Oh, right, you're freaking out about how to close the deal with a girl who supposedly already likes you and has made an effort to spend time with you. Meanwhile, men like me who treat girls they're interested in as inferior do just fine. Hell, even serial killers are more attractive to women than nice guys like you. TL;DR: You should "treat women like people"... unless you're trying to attract them. That might sound messed up, but this is simply how humans work.
That person didn't need dating advice. He said he only had male friends, that in his life he would barely meet women and that whenever he came into contact with them he would not know what to say. Someone like him should in fact be discouraged from dating because even if you teach him a 'trick' to get him to hook up with someone, the relationship will probably end up really badly due to his inexperience and preconceptions.
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On April 20 2013 09:53 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 09:43 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 09:33 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 09:18 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane) You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much. Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her. Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already. On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them. Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC. Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys". lol... if I tell someone "treat women like they are people" that isn't dating advice, it's just regular advice. And it's poor advice in the context of a thread on dating, even if it's good policy in general. "Treating women like they're people" will not lead to romantic/sexual success, unless the way you already treat people in general leads to them being attracted to you. What you're essentially doing is telling people to "be themselves", even though that's not actually working. On top of that, the reality is that treating women as if you are superior to them (even if you believe them to be equals) will lead to you being perceived as attractive. After all, you clearly believe in "treating women like they're people", and how's that working for you? Oh, right, you're freaking out about how to close the deal with a girl who supposedly already likes you and has made an effort to spend time with you. Meanwhile, men like me who treat girls they're interested in as inferior do just fine. Hell, even serial killers are more attractive to women than nice guys like you. TL;DR: You should "treat women like people"... unless you're trying to attract them. That might sound messed up, but this is simply how humans work. That person didn't need dating advice. He said he only had male friends, that in his life he would barely meet women and that if he ever came into contact with them he would not know what to say. Someone like him should in fact be discouraged from dating because even if you teach him a 'trick' to get him to hook up with someone, the relationship will probably end up really badly due to his inexperience and preconceptions.
"Awkward engineering guys should be discouraged from dating".
Aside from the blatant hypocrisy and projected self-loathing you're showing, that's a terrible thing to say about someone who came here looking for advice and/or sympathy for his problems.
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To afraid to talk to girls I'm attracted to.
Batting .000 (0/0) since I broke up with my first/last girlfriend 2 years ago.
Super awesome.
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On April 20 2013 10:01 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 09:53 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 09:43 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 09:33 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 09:18 sunprince wrote:On April 20 2013 08:34 Grumbels wrote:
I met a girl I liked and that seemed to show some interest in me. We both agreed to sign up for this (recreational sports) activity, but failed to coordinate for she and I picked different time slots. As there are limited chances to sign up I would have to break protocol and defy university policy to make the switch, far from being guaranteed a spot. (and I am scared of bureaucrats) I felt like the flow of our relationship development had been disrupted: it was supposed to be the case that we could share in this activity and become closer to each other, but if I want to see her again I would have to make a direct move in pursuing her even if we were only friends before.
I think I can probably convince the trainer to let me switch time slots, but it will probably also require me to be quite insistent with him (which I don't like) and I don't want to make an enemy of him as I will be working with him closely for several months. I suspect she will be happy for me to make this effort, but I'm still quite worried since I'm not certain about this. There is a lingering suspicion in my mind that no woman can be attracted to me in this way, even despite her actual behavior, and I do lack self confidence. I would like to get through this without any strong emotional discomfort on my side, I really can't stand rejection, so I'll have to try to handle this situation carefully. My hope is that I can simply switch the time slots, have a proper non-committal reason for doing so to allow my actions to remain ambiguous from her point of view and then continue with seeing her weekly while becoming closer to her as I had originally planned.
(sorry if this level of elaboration sounds insane) You don't sound insane, but you do sound like you care too much. Who cares if she rejects you? As you say, she might not be attracted to you anyway, but even if she is and you mess it up, there's billion more girls in the world, and plenty who are cooler/hotter/younger than her. Stop being outcome independent. Each girl is an opportunity at romance and/or passion, but just as failing a job interview is okay because there's other jobs out there, failing with a girl is okay because there's plenty of other girls out there. Stop holding yourself back and show up for the "interview" already. On April 20 2013 04:04 Grumbels wrote:On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advice, or just some fellow sympathy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below average would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit I would stop using phrases like "the female part of our race", there are more differences between you and a random friend of yours than between the Average Man and the Average Woman. And although I think that's good advise, I'm not sure if it's really helpful, because it takes a while before your actions when in contact with women start to reflect your opinions or beliefs (because at first they are just at the surface, not deeply ingrained into your personality). I think it's probably wise to try and immerse yourself a bit more into works dealing with gender issues (from whatever perspective you like I suppose). And you should join a club which has women in it and then talk to them as if they were people, instead of as if they were a scary breed of things that are nevertheless highly desirable and valuable if only one knew the code to crack them. Also, please refrain from giving dating advice when you have no idea what you're talking about. You're the equivalent of a bronze league player trying to teach people how to play SC. Unless you only pretend to identify with them to get laid, immersing yourself with gender issues is a fast track to involuntary celibacy. Even feminist women despise male feminists on a sexual level; you can easily Google for tons of feminist-directed hate towards "nice guys". lol... if I tell someone "treat women like they are people" that isn't dating advice, it's just regular advice. And it's poor advice in the context of a thread on dating, even if it's good policy in general. "Treating women like they're people" will not lead to romantic/sexual success, unless the way you already treat people in general leads to them being attracted to you. What you're essentially doing is telling people to "be themselves", even though that's not actually working. On top of that, the reality is that treating women as if you are superior to them (even if you believe them to be equals) will lead to you being perceived as attractive. After all, you clearly believe in "treating women like they're people", and how's that working for you? Oh, right, you're freaking out about how to close the deal with a girl who supposedly already likes you and has made an effort to spend time with you. Meanwhile, men like me who treat girls they're interested in as inferior do just fine. Hell, even serial killers are more attractive to women than nice guys like you. TL;DR: You should "treat women like people"... unless you're trying to attract them. That might sound messed up, but this is simply how humans work. That person didn't need dating advice. He said he only had male friends, that in his life he would barely meet women and that if he ever came into contact with them he would not know what to say. Someone like him should in fact be discouraged from dating because even if you teach him a 'trick' to get him to hook up with someone, the relationship will probably end up really badly due to his inexperience and preconceptions. "Awkward engineering guys should be discouraged from dating". Aside from the blatant hypocrisy and projected self-loathing you're showing, that's a terrible thing to say about someone who came here looking for advice and/or sympathy for his problems.
Well, not necessarily, but if an 'awkward engineering guy' does not have any semblance of self-confidence and does not have a mature perspective on gender issues (which, unfortunately, is frequently the case) then they should in fact be discouraged. I am speaking from experience, but I believe this to be correct generally.
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A little update:
We met for coffee and studyied for like an hour. Went back to her house and made smoothies and helped her put up a shelf.
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On April 20 2013 03:27 hooahah wrote:
I've never had too much contact with the female part of our race. In Elemantry/Middle/High school I mostly hanged out with guy friends, I have only brothers, in college right now I have basically 0 contact with girls since engineering lol
and this shows. It shows in my speech and body language, I have no idea how to talk/interact with girls, and they pick it up, since I telegraph it with everything I do, which further distances me from being with girls which yada yada yada fuck this perpetual cycle bullshit.
Looking for advices, or just some fellow sympethy. I'm not that good looking (I guess slightly below averege would fit the description) and god knows I'm not photogenic, but that's not the issue. How do I get out of this shit
First of all, don't ever listen to Grumbels or anyone like him (same applies to anything really; don't listen to Bronze leaguers trying to teach StarCraft either).
Based on what you've said here and a cursory glance at your posting history, I'm going to assume that you're a rational-minded person with at least somewhat above average intellect, but held back in your social interaction by some of the traits commonly found in those with Asperger's syndrome. Accordingly, I'm going to conclude that you are capable of understanding how systems work when presented with science and understanding how to adapt accordingly to get the results you want, much like in every form of engineering. So read the following studies, and rather than accepting any of them as a gospel of truth, figure out for yourself what is real and what is relevant to you and how to adapt accordingly:
http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP10899909.pdf
http://www.csom.umn.edu/assets/71503.pdf
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/fam-26-2-236.pdf
http://www.synergy-pr.com/files/JESP72009(1).pdf
If you end up hitting the gym, learning male fashion advice, practicing social dominance, and keep working towards financial security as an engineer, then you're probably on the right track. Let me know if you have any questions.
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EPT
