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SharkSpider
Canada606 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:07 Consolidate wrote: Tell my why a US diplomat WHO STILL HAS HIS JOB would implicitly admit guilt on behalf of the accused. I just did. If those guys are guilty and the US said "wait till the trial" they look way worse than they do if they throw a few guys under the bus and later it turns out they maybe did it but it's not beyond a reasonable doubt. | ||
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TheArtOfFugue
Canada187 Posts
On October 09 2011 05:36 TheOne85 wrote: Soldier or not, people do stupid, horrible things. Being part of the armed forces has no effect on my opinion of this situation. Obviously it does... I agree with your first sentence.. but I'll add it's even worse when a soldier does it. They are supposed to serve and protect, and preach by EXAMPLE. Not abuse the position and assume it'll be swept under the rug. | ||
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
On October 09 2011 06:59 .Sic. wrote: Pretty sure the U.S is there in case China decides to jump in. North Korea's army is not threatening in a technological way, it's the sheer numbers and biological / nuclear threat that keeps the US in country. I can tell you without a doubt that RoK would not be able to handle a full on NK attack and the casualty count would be enormous. Just because they are still using MiG-21's and most of their MiG-29's aren't even in top shape doesn't mean they are useless. NK's objective would not be to engage any army head on, it would be to infiltrate and cause as many civilian casualties as possible. So bottom line, NK is actually extremely threatening and without a US presence there they would be much more likely to push international buttons to get their way. On the subject of China, they would never directly support NK by using their aircraft to defend NK soil. The reason China associates itself with NK is because if they do something stupid like attack the RoK, they are going to have millions of NK refugees streaming across the border into China. China's biggest problem is managing their population and the last thing they want is millions more poor people with no where to go in their country. The long term effect of NK being wiped out by US/RoK forces would be that now the US has forces stationed right next to their border, which is obviously very concerning in terms of national security. I've studied the unclassified and classified aspects of this budding conflict for about two years, the lack of details is because I don't want to say something stupid and get myself in trouble. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
But anti-American sentiment from it, really? I guess the incidents happening so close to each other causes people to overreact. Think about it, it's not as simple as 2 out of 30,000 US troops committed rape. It's more like 2 out of 100,000, or 200,000, or possibly even more. Do you think the same 30k troops are there, and have been forever? Someone needs to find out the last time this happened, and how many US troops have been in rotation in and out of the ROK since then. Unless another rape happened in the last few years, it's probably over a hundred thousand. It's probably related to the stereotype that American English teachers come to Korea only to sleep with girls. It doesn't matter that there are tens of thousands and the rapes happen rarely, it just takes one for a political party to jump on board and the public to draw baseless conclusions. So yes, this is bad, and those people must be punished. But if you start thinking less of Americans from this news, then you need to reevaluate your grasp on statistics and outliers. | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
The top U.S. diplomat for East Asia, Kurt Campbell, apologized Friday for what he called a "tragic and inexcusable rape that took place about a week ago." "tragic and inexcusable rape that took place about a week ago." So it's well established that girls were raped, but you people still think that there might be a chance that they weren't actually raped by the Americans. If so, then why the hell would the AMERICAN diplomat be apologizing? You simply do not make such a definitive public statement if your ass is not covered. | ||
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nymfaw
Norway430 Posts
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SYNC_qx
Germany197 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:16 nymfaw wrote: girls get raped all the time, everywhere.. what's new? Maybe if you think for just one second you'd notice that a korean raping another korean is in fact a very different thing than a american soldier raping a korean! | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:16 nymfaw wrote: girls get raped all the time, everywhere.. what's new? Because symbolism. South Koreans are already unhappy about their perceived vassal status. American soldiers literally raping their countrywomen cuts pretty deep. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:16 Consolidate wrote: Lets try this again shall we? "tragic and inexcusable rape that took place about a week ago." So it's well established that girls were raped, but you people still think that there might be a chance that they weren't actually raped by the Americans. If so, then why the hell would the AMERICAN diplomat be apologizing? You simply do not make such a definitive public statement if your ass is not covered. Well one rape the one on the 24th was a forceful rape with the woman going to the hospital for minor injuries, that one is little doubt something wrong happened. The one on the 17th can't find as much news about and that person has not been turned over to the korean authorities because he says it was consensual sex, but he stole her laptop or something so it's messy. | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:16 Consolidate wrote: Lets try this again shall we? "tragic and inexcusable rape that took place about a week ago." So it's well established that girls were raped, but you people still think that there might be a chance that they weren't actually raped by the Americans. If so, then why the hell would the AMERICAN diplomat be apologizing? You simply do not make such a definitive public statement if your ass is not covered. He apologizes because it's his job to suck up to the Koreans. Immediately at least, it's better for public image and to save face for the country as a whole to just say "sorry" and distance yourself from the suspects than to try and defend them in this case, even if they are completely innocent. This still doesn't mean that the suspects are guilty of anything, and the investigation hasn't had anyone arrested or punished yet. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On October 09 2011 06:27 APurpleCow wrote: You're saying "US soldiers", which almost implies that these men's actions were condoned by the US military. If you took 30,000 korean men at random, they probably commit just as many, if not more, rapes than the US soldiers do. To use these rapes to fuel anti-American sentiments is pretty ridiculous. No, they're not: "(2) In 2005, the forcible rape rate for the United States was approximately four times higher than the rate for Korea." http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/rape-rate-in-south-korea-1990-2005/ | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:21 Hikko wrote: He apologizes because it's his job to suck up to the Koreans. Immediately at least, it's better for public image and to save face for the country as a whole to just say "sorry" and distance yourself from the suspects than to try and defend them in this case, even if they are completely innocent. This still doesn't mean that the suspects are guilty of anything, and the investigation hasn't had anyone arrested or punished yet. That's a completely distorted view of a diplomat's range of operation. You think a diplomat can PREEMPTIVELY admit guilt on behalf of the US army without any real knowledge of the situation? That he can spew concessionary lies because some Koreans are angry? I don't know where to begin. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On October 09 2011 08:21 Zocat wrote: No, they're not: "(2) In 2005, the forcible rape rate for the United States was approximately four times higher than the rate for Korea." http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/rape-rate-in-south-korea-1990-2005/ You misunderstand my meaning. A comparison between the % occurrence of rape between US soldiers in Korea and Koreans, not between USA citizens and Korean citizens. | ||
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psheldr
Germany32 Posts
But this argument falls flat on it's face if you consider the > 50000 US soldiers in Germany. They are there so that if Russia attacks...!? | ||
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ownyaah
34 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
Or it's not even close to that and one incident is getting blown out of poportion. Nothing will come of this. Assuming they're guilty w/ evidence, 2 soldiers will probably be sent to military prison and that'll be that. | ||
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joyeaux
United States169 Posts
[QUOTE] This is why you people are so deluded. North Korea is as threatening as a homeless dog. Their military is largely obsolete. If a war broke out between the two Koreas and no outside force interfered, North Korea would lose without a question.[/QUOTE] The whole "no outside force interfered" thing is a big assumption, China is allied with North Korea and might not hesitate to help North Korea fight if US military presence did not send a clear message: "Attacking South Korea means attacking US military bases." [QUOTE] The whole "North Korea is a threat" thing that Americans think and fear so much rises up from pure rhetorical fear-mongering. North Korea isn't keeping sheepish because of American military presence. They're all talk because they know they don't have the capacity to do anything even if they wanted to. [/QUOTE] According to [url=http://www.amazon.com/Escaping-North-Korea-Defiance-Repressive/dp/0742556204]Mike Kim[/url], Nearly all North Koreans (even at the top) believe that North Korea would win in an Armed Conflict with the US, and that South Korea and Japan are poorer than North Korea. TL;DR: The thing keeping North Korea from fighting South Korea (for now) is that China has North Korea on a short leash. If US military bases weren't around to indicate that America will likely get involved if South Korea was attacked, China would be be free to decide South Korea's fate. | ||
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psheldr
Germany32 Posts
Also you seem to suggest these men were just in SK by some coincidence, because you refer to them as just 'American'. But the issue is that they are US Soldiers payed for by the US government to be stationed in SK. | ||
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