EPTCERN finds neutrinos faster than light - Page 28
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qjmorris
Canada7 Posts
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Druzal
United States25 Posts
http://xkcd.com/955/ According to a professor at my university, there was a super nova back in 1987 which allowed a comparative measurement of light and the electron neutrinos coming from the super nova. This resulted in a more precise measurement than Opera and it's result was that the speeds were consistent with each other. Given that electron neutrinos can transmute to muon neutrinos, I think it's unlikely that they would have different properties related to speed. Regardless this will be good for the physics community in terms of getting funding for studying neutrinos which are not well understood regardless of superluminal claims. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
Another idea. Use a similar mechanism to previous experiment, but have a trigger that works on neutrino emission and emits more neutrino every time neutrino is detected. As long as the trigger is fast enough from detection, the neutrino machine will send machine from the moment it's turned on because the detection of neutrino in the future will cascade back into the past up until a trigger point when the first neutrinos are sent. | ||
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dpurple
Turkmenistan592 Posts
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DwmC_Foefen
Belgium2186 Posts
Or aren't there any updates/opinions of people who know what they're talking about? | ||
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topoulo
253 Posts
they also have been suspisions that such faster than light travel could have existed nowdays ( on massless particles ) , well there you go. | ||
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RTudoRR
Romania216 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:25 topoulo wrote: Its commonly believed that netrinos and other elements were traveling faster than light when the universe was much younger . they also have been suspisions that such faster than light travel could have existed nowdays ( on massless particles ) , well there you go. science is not concerned with beliefs fortunately, in this case we have actual data | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
The reason that the light barrier is the limit for objects with mass is that as you speed up you gain (in effect) more mass and as you reach close to light speed it takes infinitely more energy to continue to accelerate because the object becomes heavier and heavier. This is why we can only accelerate particles to 99.9% the speed of light..... to accelerate them further would take more energy than we could ever hope to produce. I'm paraphrasing and removing some of the more technical elements of physics but you get the idea ;p | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On September 24 2011 00:10 StoRm_res wrote: Thats simply not true. Quantum mechanics still works, all other experiments still back up Einstein theory of relativity. (Your GPS still works) It just means the theory has to be corrected, because not everything in it would be wrong. The guys who doubted they didnt measure the curvature and stuff like that, if they had watched the webcast they would just have to stfu ^^ Very interesting topic. As a third year physics student myself I'm still sceptical but very excited about this =) I agree that its very interesting and surely the stuff thats been proven to work will still work even though the theories might have to be revised. What I meant was more what kind of doors a thing like this could open in the long run. Maybe someday this will be a part of the "applied physics" course, who knows!  | ||
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HereBeDragons
1429 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:17 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Here's an idea. Prepare to send the neutrinos. If neutrinos are detected, then stop sending neutrinos. This could determine possibility of changing the future. This of course will be dependent on whether we can find circuitry that also react quickly enough so it's not feasible any time soon. Another idea. Use a similar mechanism to previous experiment, but have a trigger that works on neutrino emission and emits more neutrino every time neutrino is detected. As long as the trigger is fast enough from detection, the neutrino machine will send machine from the moment it's turned on because the detection of neutrino in the future will cascade back into the past up until a trigger point when the first neutrinos are sent. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Not every neutrino sent will be detected, it's one in a billion. Neutrino passes through most matter. CERN sent billions of billions for 3 years and detected ~16000. | ||
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:17 ddrddrddrddr wrote: Here's an idea. Prepare to send the neutrinos. If neutrinos are detected, then stop sending neutrinos. This could determine possibility of changing the future. This of course will be dependent on whether we can find circuitry that also react quickly enough so it's not feasible any time soon. Another idea. Use a similar mechanism to previous experiment, but have a trigger that works on neutrino emission and emits more neutrino every time neutrino is detected. As long as the trigger is fast enough from detection, the neutrino machine will send machine from the moment it's turned on because the detection of neutrino in the future will cascade back into the past up until a trigger point when the first neutrinos are sent. It does not travel instantly, only faster than light even by the article. The weird thing about neutrinos is even if traveling the speed of light they are a particle with mass so by relativity the momentum would be near infinite. I find even if it was the speed of light very interesting | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:31 emythrel wrote: The speed of light only applies to particles with mass. it has been thought for a long time that particles without mass see the speed of light as a lower limit, not an upper one. Photons have mass now? You might be thinking of tachyons and particles with imaginary mass. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:31 emythrel wrote: The speed of light only applies to particles with mass. So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean.. | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:37 Robinsa wrote: So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean.. His second line says "it has been thought for a long time that particles without mass see the speed of light as a lower limit, not an upper one." | ||
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EternalSC
Sweden313 Posts
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:37 Robinsa wrote: So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean.. Light only travels at 186,000,252mps in a vacuum...... its slower when travelling through water etc and it is this way because it interacts via the electro-magnetic force. Neutrinos don't. I wasn't saying that photons dont travel at the speed of light, i was saying that the speed of light as a barrier doesn't apply to massless particles... On September 24 2011 01:42 Oktyabr wrote: His second line says "it has been thought for a long time that particles without mass see the speed of light as a lower limit, not an upper one." thanks for the help lol | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:37 Robinsa wrote: So youre going in to the argument saying that Light doesnt have the speed of light ? Considering the photon is massless I mean.. Yes his argument was flawed, however the primary point still stands: If something has no mass or close thereto, it is not unreasonable to think that the particle could be faster than a photon. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
edit: massless particles travel at c. for faster than light travel, you need particles with imaginary masses. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:35 scorch- wrote: Photons have mass now? You might be thinking of tachyons and particles with imaginary mass. Photons have energy and therefore a relativistic mass, they don't have a rest mass however. As you approach the speed of light moving away from a light source the light will be redshifted so that the energy of the light approaches zero - photons have no energy in their rest frame and therefore no mass. Still, FTL transmission is limited by casuality and not energy for particles without a rest mass. If you have a closed box coated with perfect mirrors on the inside and there is light constantly reflecting on the mirrors then the energy of the photons inside the box will contribute to the total rest mass of the box if you weigh it. Photons leaving the sun are redshifted because of the gravitational interaction from the sun with their relativistic mass. | ||
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