The interview in the later part of the piece is with David Graeber. When commenting on a quote from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg he talks about the composition of the protesters and their reasons for protesting, subjects discussed a fair bit in this thread.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG:"You have a lot of kids graduating college, can’t find jobs. That’s what happened in Cairo. That’s what happened in Madrid. You don’t want those kinds of riots here."
DAVID GRAEBER:"if you look at who showed up, it was mostly young people, and most of them were people who had gone through the educational system, who were deeply in debt, and who found it completely impossible to get jobs. I mean, these people have felt—really feel very strongly that they did the right thing. They did exactly what they were supposed to. The system has completely failed them. And they’re not going to be saved by the people in charge. You’re just going to have—if there’s going to be any kind of society like we—worth living in, we’re going to have to create it ourselves."
Off topic: He says a number of interesting things during the course of it. His interview continues here.) I couldn't find anything confirming a Saudi Arabian debt cancellation and was wondering if anyone could...
On September 18 2011 07:43 shurgen wrote: If you really think that Wall Street is this completely evil and corrupt force whose goal is to make the lives of the non-super rich awful, you have it very wrong.
I'm not saying no one in that industry is corrupt. There are corrupt people everywhere, from your local community organization, to the boards of the world's largest and most influential companies. But in all honesty, more than 99.9% of people who work in 'Wall Street' (the construct, not the actual street) are just normal people like you and I, doing something for a living that pays the bills and let's them have some financial freedom to enjoy their lives.
This. There are those who care nothing about others and only want to enrich themselves, but that's human nature and happens everywhere. Last part though, I'd have to say people who work 12-18 hour days aren't just trying to "pay the bills" but instead want to get rich really really fast.
When did team liquid ever allowed 4 chan related material to be posted? No wonder you all are so clueless. You all havent even gone to the source of the information and relying on terrible middleman sources.
On September 18 2011 07:43 shurgen wrote: If you really think that Wall Street is this completely evil and corrupt force whose goal is to make the lives of the non-super rich awful, you have it very wrong.
I'm not saying no one in that industry is corrupt. There are corrupt people everywhere, from your local community organization, to the boards of the world's largest and most influential companies. But in all honesty, more than 99.9% of people who work in 'Wall Street' (the construct, not the actual street) are just normal people like you and I, doing something for a living that pays the bills and let's them have some financial freedom to enjoy their lives.
This. There are those who care nothing about others and only want to enrich themselves, but that's human nature and happens everywhere. Last part though, I'd have to say people who work 12-18 hour days aren't just trying to "pay the bills" but instead want to get rich really really fast.
obviously we shouldn't let people work as long as they want because its not fair to the lazy people
On September 20 2011 12:34 holydog wrote: When did team liquid ever allowed 4 chan related material to be posted? No wonder you all are so clueless. You all havent even gone to the source of the information and relying on terrible middleman sources.
What? how is the OP 4chan material? I mean the subject mater is over a very real issue that has affected a huge portion of the world. Sounds like something worth looking into even if you don't agree, at least for interests sake since the subject is relevant to most ppl. And just like any other info source, a single source never provides enough info to take a knowledgeable stand on an issue and i'm pretty sure no one is saying otherwise. Maybe i just don't understand what you mean, but for such a dismissive and negative post you might want to explain how its "4chan material" which to me means electronic shit, a claim which deserves backing up.
On September 20 2011 12:34 holydog wrote: When did team liquid ever allowed 4 chan related material to be posted? No wonder you all are so clueless. You all havent even gone to the source of the information and relying on terrible middleman sources.
What? how is the OP 4chan material? I mean the subject mater is over a very real issue that has affected a huge portion of the world. Sounds like something worth looking into even if you don't agree, at least for interests sake since the subject is relevant to most ppl. And just like any other info source, a single source never provides enough info to take a knowledgeable stand on an issue and i'm pretty sure no one is saying otherwise. Maybe i just don't understand what you mean, but for such a dismissive and negative post you might want to explain how its "4chan material" which to me means electronic shit, a claim which deserves backing up.
Such a project is created by a niche group trying to renact the glory days of "project chanology". This time against wall street. Its been circulating through /b/ for weeks now. Like any intelligent /b/tard that had seen the glory days before its crash into complete utter shittiness, it would be logical to avoid it like the plague. The motivation is quite clear. They are a bunch of activists who bumped into the chans and decided to don the anonymous tag to gather attention and to remain blameless. A tag that has always been associated with the chans.
It is true anonymous was created to become the indestructible organisation with no leadership, member list or even true motive but the purpose was clear. To be a front for pulling the biggest pranks the world have seen. Yet this holds no flavour at all of anonymous. I havent managed to save posts from the 'organisation' but you can see clearly from their 'announcement video'.
It is clearly mimicking this-
No chan had called for such actions and all insurgency boards have remained quiet. For this to be the creation of the first anonymous is completely impossible. To understand motives you must analysis primary data.This 'organisation' holds no structure even related to ones used in previous anonymous raids. Also the management of this whole event is very corporate like. A website, a live stream, a string of 'messages' and even organised main stream media to appear. No, i cant cry out fake but i can clearly say it is very shady. Its no longer 'ulimate mischief' it has become 'wheres my money?' under the cover of 'wheres my jobs?'.
What completely frustrates me is that people of this thread thinks they know what is going on when they have absolutely no clue. As far as i know the original anonymous died long ago. The only branch that seems to have survived is lulsec and even their operations are quite different. So no, dont consider them as 'anonymous' as you know it. Consider them an unknown organisation with a hidden agenda.
Protests against the greed of wall street doesnt need to a take up the name of internet prankstas.
its not about ultimate mischief or wheres my money, its about a political protest. I'm glad you think because some anons are involved, there is some sort of PLOT.
But guess what - Everyone is welcome at this protest. Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, Capitalists, yes, even anons. Sorry, but theres no creepy 4chan narrative here, just friendly protesters who welcome support from anyone with open arms.
Good to see American liberals finally showing some backbone. The ultra rich and their tea party/Republican sycophants have been having things their own way there for far too long.
Being someone who has worked on Wall St. in a bulge bracket investment bank, the ignorance and blind stupidity in this thread (and generally around the world) is seriously disappointing and depressing. There are reasons to be angry at Wall St. for, but so far all I've seen is ignorance and stupid logic. Wall St. has become a target and is painted as the evil regime, but little do people know that Wall St. is possibly one of the greatest reasons why the U.S. is so successful and wealthy today. It's not a "necessary evil". It's a "necessary good" that has evil people spotted around in it.
And people ask why Wall St. executives earn so much money, right? It seems like 99% of the general public have no idea what people on Wall St. do anyway, and just complain that they earn millions of dollars for doing nothing important and are just swindling money away. I'm not saying that they're not, but why the hell do people who throw a strange shaped ball across a field or a small white ball around a diamond earning so much money? Wall St.'s primary goal is to encourage INVESTMENT, because through investment, Wall St. can take a cut and earn money. However, the point is that INVESTMENT is what drives this country. Businesses, without investment, would be nothing but tiny stores never to expand except through some fluke of their own. In other words, without investment, we might be still stuck in some modern version of the wild wild west where businesses are limited by geographic location and can't expand and remain as tiny ass stores on the side of the road, with high prices leading to instability and etc etc etc.
The main problem with Wall Street is not the executives. It's the REGULATORS. Executives are people who have a very simple job; use means within the regulations to earn as much profit as possible. To the ordinary idiot, this apparently sounds like an evil goal, when in fact this is what everyone should strive to achieve - to work your hardest and produce the best work possible using everything within the rules. What is defined as "bad" and "good" in your job is simply defined by the rules.
Look at it this way, if a high-school project said you were allowed to use any resources possible as long as your input was significant, and you went to world-famous researchers and professors and helped compile the greatest high-school project ever seen with some of your own input, do you think the school teachers are going to crack down on this and complain, no matter how much the other students complain? It's grey area, and the only thing that defines "right" and "wrong" in this system are the rules. The student who did this might not have predicted that this would have sparked massive competition within the school and caused a crisis concerning student competitiveness, but it's not something we can blame the guy for, even if he did see it coming.
Of course, leading to the credit crisis in '08, some might say that somewhere along the line, someone was doing something purposely hugely wrong or evil, and this led to the crisis. Wrong. These were incremental problems that were not the fault of the people, but rather of the overall system. Imagine that student example, except compounded, and the competitiveness leads to many suicides (cough private elite high school boarding schools cough). It could lead to something huge. Possibly, the principal or whatever of the school might have been able to see the big picture. However, what is he going to say to any one person that might make it fair for everyone? He can't just dole out criticisms. He's not going to complain because the quality of work in his school is fantastic and it has a great reputation now. The only chance to correct something like this is a wide-spread regulation. And thus it is the fault of the regulators, not the students or the teachers. Or in our real case, it is not the fault of the average bankers and execs. The regulatory companies (of which there are quite a few) need to figure out their sh*t and work things out and make sure their regulations are followed.
Having said all this, there are many Wall St. execs who are out to swindle money. They obviously need to be caught and destroyed. However, this is no different from any job, especially politics. I bet politicians are right now having a field day, because they can blame all corruption and loss of money from the economy on Wall St, while they pocket and laugh at the stupid public. If you want to look for a corrupt system, you honestly don't have to look that far.
**everything I've said here is either fact or logic, so if you want to rebut anything here, make sure to actually have something logical to say.
No, everything you have said here is NARRATIVE, the piece is completely bereft of evidence of any kind altogether. Saying Wrong doth not an argument make.
On the subject of trolling, repeating things you've heard, we've ALL heard a hundred times is simply reinforcing a dubious narrative, no matter how smug the face you make while you type it is.
On September 21 2011 00:59 darkscream wrote: lol @ all this 4chan history and conspiracy
its not about ultimate mischief or wheres my money, its about a political protest. I'm glad you think because some anons are involved, there is some sort of PLOT.
But guess what - Everyone is welcome at this protest. Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, Capitalists, yes, even anons. Sorry, but theres no creepy 4chan narrative here, just friendly protesters who welcome support from anyone with open arms.
You seem to have missed my point. The point im stating is there is not even a bit of anonymous in this. Rather it should be considered that this group just decided put on the name anonymous and started to roll with it. Their true agenda is unclear. They have not stated the course of action that they demanded wall street should take.
It group with a hidden agenda and a crowd following them not knowing what is going on.
What are we thinking? Concentration camps for anyone on a 6 figure salary? The ultimate desctruction of America? Some kind of end game involving the creation of a soup made of ALL OUR CHILDREN?
I'm 1000 % with people there, whole world is! I don't care about arguments why this could be wrong. I know that things happening right now in the world are already wrong and everyone just wacth it without any reaction. Every time when there is some protest lazy people without attitude saying how wrong protests are. Who cares about those lazy sheeps anymore, because of them we are here where we are!
My country is destroyed because of crysis made at Wall Street, we will get out of this black hole in few years. Young people here are without future, everything is in a mess and cancer is there - at Wall Street. I'm glad Amerians finally act against those pricks and I hope there will be more and more of them on the streets!
On September 21 2011 09:40 Dapper_Cad wrote: No, everything you have said here is NARRATIVE, the piece is completely bereft of evidence of any kind altogether. Saying Wrong doth not an argument make.
On the subject of trolling, repeating things you've heard, we've ALL heard a hundred times is simply reinforcing a dubious narrative, no matter how smug the face you make while you type it is.
1. Bereft of evidence? You're sitting at a computer with internet. Try Google. 2. You can't read english, can you? Otherwise it's amazing how you brazenly ignorant you can be, I'd be embarrassed to claim something that is actually addressed in the first sentence. 3. Or maybe you just didn't read, period. I don't see how "ALL" have heard this story before. Your ancestors must have followed the proud bloodline that believes the world is flat, evolution is the devil, and being gay is a curse. Get your smug face out of your own ass and smell the shit you're spewing out your mouth.
Being mad at Wall Street is stupid, because it is ignoring the root cause of their actions - the government laws and regulation surrounding the financial sector.
Wall Street firms are rational, profit-seeking entities. Yes, they're a bunch of slimy unethical businessmen, but getting mad at them for following the easiest path to profits is like getting mad at water for flooding out of the tub when you open up the drain. Get mad at the perverse government incentives that made unwise business strategies financially viable, and get mad at the government institutions (such as Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac) that led the pack. Get mad at the corrupt politicians who caved to special interests and tried to buy votes with entitlement programs - it was their actions who got us here.
EPT
