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Occupy Wall Street - Page 63

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Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
October 11 2011 07:00 GMT
#1241
On October 11 2011 15:53 Velr wrote:
It's REALLY simpel when it comes to investing and the whole stockmarket?

Long term investment/derivates... = Good
Short term = Bad...


Everything seems simple when you can't comprehend the level of complication involved.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13956 Posts
October 11 2011 07:05 GMT
#1242
I'm going to bed now. Can't wait to hear whats going to happen tomarrow morning.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 11 2011 07:07 GMT
#1243
So apparently Dallas, St. Louis, Seattle, and even Atlanta are being raided alongside Boston...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 07:08:45
October 11 2011 07:08 GMT
#1244
On October 11 2011 16:00 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 15:53 Velr wrote:
It's REALLY simpel when it comes to investing and the whole stockmarket?

Long term investment/derivates... = Good
Short term = Bad...


Everything seems simple when you can't comprehend the level of complication involved.



You just don't have to understand every bullshit some greedy assholes made up to get more money not caring about the consequences....

Trading for tradings sake is just bad and unecessary (investing is good!). Why do you think they are working right now at laws/taxes against "automated trading" or whatever exactly it's called?
"Shortterm" trading serves only the traders and has bad effects on all "others"..
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
October 11 2011 07:16 GMT
#1245
On October 11 2011 15:59 Kaitlin wrote:

Any I'm fairly confident that any beatings going on are a direct result of physical non-compliance with law enforcement. So, let's not get our panties in a bunch about police brutality. And if the shit hits the fan tomorrow, I guess that's better than that hippie shitting on the patrol car.


Being present at the site of a protest very frequently qualifies for physical non-compliance with law enforcement.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 07:48:11
October 11 2011 07:45 GMT
#1246
On October 11 2011 14:59 AmishNukes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:13 Mindcrime wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:59 AmishNukes wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:48 Mindcrime wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:02 Stirbend wrote:
As far as Nuclear power goes, i'll just say that most of the energy we use here comes from nuclear power plants, and we have some of the lowest power costs in the USA. Nuclear is renewable, and cheap. I really couldn't care less about costs for nuclear energy from a country thats regulating the crap out of it to keep it from popping up.


Where did you get the idea that nuclear power was cheap?


He's actually right about nuclear power being low-cost. The issue is that it has extremely high upfront capital requirements.
http://nuclearfissionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/total-cost-electricity-production-per-kwh.jpg
This graph is from: http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/
This is clearly a pro nuclear site so they may devalue the cost of decommishing but the per kwh production numbers are in line with many others I have seen so I'm not looking for another source at 1 am. These are good enough for the point: once you have nuclear it is cheap.
They also haveper kwh)
Nuclear: $0.019
Coal: $0.027
Natural Gas: $0.081
Wind:$0.030
Hydroelectric: $0.009
Solar: No estimate found


Yeah, once you have the massive government subsidies, limited liability and an already operating plant it's cheap.

:|


Some estimates place coal subsidies higher than nuclear per kwh. The problem is it's nearly impossible to follow all the money governments are throwing around. The energy economy is a complicated system and I have a nuclear engineering degree. We spent a lot of time discussing different energy sources and their pros/cons. I'm not working in the industry so I have no interest in telling you nuclear is great. I personally would love if more of our energy came from solar, geothermal, and wind, but nuclear IS one of the safest and cheapest sources of energy as of today. Taking into account all civilian nuclear accidents in the history of the world, nothing compares to nuclear's safety. You can do some research yourself on the matter. I believe you'll find what I say is true.

My point is, do some real research before you make an unsupported claim. If you want to


Wait, what claim is it that you have a problem with now? Because you said nothing refuting any of the claims I actually made; namely that nuclear power plants cost a shit ton to start up, are heavily subsidized and that nuclear power producers have limited liability.

That nuclear power is safe* or that other fuel sources receive subsidies too is mostly beside the point.

*and it's obviously not safe enough for private insurers or we could've done away with the Price-Anderson act
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 07:58:12
October 11 2011 07:53 GMT
#1247
On October 11 2011 16:00 sermokala wrote:
you know If you look at it competly objectively. Camping out on public property isn't that smart of an idea. I mean theres already laws in place and you'll be treated just like anyone else who would do the same. Nazi support rallies have to be protected but they follow all the laws set in front of them pretty well.

If you're not getting arrested you're not protesting, get battered by the police sent to arrest you clog the system as that's the only way to make noise. No one pays attention to a protest that doesn't inconvenience people and that's frankly the truth want news time get arrested. Although i wouldn't advocate getting arrested by rioting,which just invalidates w.e you're doing in like 10 seconds, frankly much better footage comes out of people shouting and not complying with the police and then getting thrown to the ground from it. Sure it sucks to be that guy but you'll get shit ton more news time from it. And i don't blame the police easiest way to handle a group of people is to scare of the majority and arrest a good number of them to arrest everyone just taxes the system.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
October 11 2011 07:54 GMT
#1248
Least I Could Do comic on the public perception of occupy wall street: [image loading]

As for everyone talking about investment vs trading, the stock market connects people with money with producers, so it's a mechanism of investment. It's just not simple venture capitalism, but it adds a ton of money into the overall amount invested.

Look at the details and regulations if you want to criticize, but the idea itself is one of investment.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Stirbend
Profile Joined October 2010
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 08:15:58
October 11 2011 08:15 GMT
#1249
On October 11 2011 14:13 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 13:59 AmishNukes wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:48 Mindcrime wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:02 Stirbend wrote:
As far as Nuclear power goes, i'll just say that most of the energy we use here comes from nuclear power plants, and we have some of the lowest power costs in the USA. Nuclear is renewable, and cheap. I really couldn't care less about costs for nuclear energy from a country thats regulating the crap out of it to keep it from popping up.


Where did you get the idea that nuclear power was cheap?


He's actually right about nuclear power being low-cost. The issue is that it has extremely high upfront capital requirements.
http://nuclearfissionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/total-cost-electricity-production-per-kwh.jpg
This graph is from: http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/
This is clearly a pro nuclear site so they may devalue the cost of decommishing but the per kwh production numbers are in line with many others I have seen so I'm not looking for another source at 1 am. These are good enough for the point: once you have nuclear it is cheap.
They also haveper kwh)
Nuclear: $0.019
Coal: $0.027
Natural Gas: $0.081
Wind:$0.030
Hydroelectric: $0.009
Solar: No estimate found


Yeah, once you have the massive government subsidies, limited liability and an already operating plant it's cheap.

:|


Actually some rather large power companies are willing to foot the bill for a couple of plants. The problem is, the gvt. makes getting the license to construct, fuel, and then operate these plants near impossible. Its been 2+ years since i looked into this, though, and i don't remember who they are.

So not only is nuclear cheap for the consumer, its profitable enough for the private sector to want to run it.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 11 2011 08:33 GMT
#1250
On October 11 2011 17:15 Stirbend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 14:13 Mindcrime wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:59 AmishNukes wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:48 Mindcrime wrote:
On October 11 2011 13:02 Stirbend wrote:
As far as Nuclear power goes, i'll just say that most of the energy we use here comes from nuclear power plants, and we have some of the lowest power costs in the USA. Nuclear is renewable, and cheap. I really couldn't care less about costs for nuclear energy from a country thats regulating the crap out of it to keep it from popping up.


Where did you get the idea that nuclear power was cheap?


He's actually right about nuclear power being low-cost. The issue is that it has extremely high upfront capital requirements.
http://nuclearfissionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/total-cost-electricity-production-per-kwh.jpg
This graph is from: http://nuclearfissionary.com/2010/04/02/comparing-energy-costs-of-nuclear-coal-gas-wind-and-solar/
This is clearly a pro nuclear site so they may devalue the cost of decommishing but the per kwh production numbers are in line with many others I have seen so I'm not looking for another source at 1 am. These are good enough for the point: once you have nuclear it is cheap.
They also haveper kwh)
Nuclear: $0.019
Coal: $0.027
Natural Gas: $0.081
Wind:$0.030
Hydroelectric: $0.009
Solar: No estimate found


Yeah, once you have the massive government subsidies, limited liability and an already operating plant it's cheap.

:|


Actually some rather large power companies are willing to foot the bill for a couple of plants. The problem is, the gvt. makes getting the license to construct, fuel, and then operate these plants near impossible. Its been 2+ years since i looked into this, though, and i don't remember who they are.

So not only is nuclear cheap for the consumer, its profitable enough for the private sector to want to run it.


as long as they get the massive subsidies and loan guarantees

And, well, I guess we'll see how profitable these new plants are; it's been a few months, but last time I looked, ground had only been broken in a couple locations. And, given the recent history of nuclear plant cost estimates, the chance that these plants will never be completed is still there.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
KiaL.Kiwi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 13:26:49
October 11 2011 13:24 GMT
#1251
Happy to see the movement gaining so much momentum. When the thread startet I expected it to die down pretty quickly.

Concerning Boston: even though this may sound cynical to the people involved, police brutality and exclusion of the media while committing those crimes is something that will actually help the movement.
We had a similar case here recently where people were protesting against a huge new train station and the police destroyed the eyes of some poor senior with water cannons and was convicted of using agent provocateurs to get the whole water shooting startet.
Those actions always shed some light on who is the supresser and who are the supressed and evokes emotional sympathy for the protesters, even from people who were sceptical or opposed before the police brutality.

All the best to the protesters.

On a sidenote: Is it somehow possible to report Endymion? The guy has done nothing but offensive, dumb 1-line trolling for the last five pages that would have gotten any regular user banned a long time ago.
BioNova
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States598 Posts
October 11 2011 13:44 GMT
#1252
On October 11 2011 15:49 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 15:41 semantics wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:33 Endymion wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:32 Macabre wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:30 Endymion wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:29 Macabre wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:28 Endymion wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:27 aksfjh wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:20 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Yeah and beating peaceful protesters, who are veterans, will just heighten the amount of shit that will hit the fan.


Probably still be labeled as hippies. :\


because they're hippies.


Yup, every single person out there occupying is a hippy.


agreed!


I was being heavily sarcastic. They are Americans fighting to see the people who wrecked the economy be held accountable. You should thank them.


oh, i couldn't tell the sarcasm when what you just said was 100% true. and no thanks, i'll thank the people who "wrecked the economy" instead thanks.

I rather thank the people who actually produce something or provide a service in an economy instead of the people who just trade derivative forms of money as a way of obtaining more money, ie the definition of greed.


Do you have a retirement account? Do you like the fact that the return is fairly consistent compared to the market as a whole? Thank derivatives and the people who trade them then.

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 15:49 Macabre wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Apparently the Police are about to do the same in Seattle. Removing Media teams etc.


Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable. - John F. Kennedy


I really hope not, my family is in the top 1% (not finance)


Your so full of shit. Probably the worst post i have even seen.
I used to like trumpets, now I prefer pause. "Don't move a muscle JP!"
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2076 Posts
October 11 2011 13:50 GMT
#1253
On October 11 2011 16:08 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 16:00 Kaitlin wrote:
On October 11 2011 15:53 Velr wrote:
It's REALLY simpel when it comes to investing and the whole stockmarket?

Long term investment/derivates... = Good
Short term = Bad...


Everything seems simple when you can't comprehend the level of complication involved.



You just don't have to understand every bullshit some greedy assholes made up to get more money not caring about the consequences....

Trading for tradings sake is just bad and unecessary (investing is good!). Why do you think they are working right now at laws/taxes against "automated trading" or whatever exactly it's called?
"Shortterm" trading serves only the traders and has bad effects on all "others"..


Actually high-frequency trading helps the market because it vastly increases market liquidity.
#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 14:03:19
October 11 2011 14:00 GMT
#1254
What below66 wrote is entirely inaccurate.

Anyway it would be nice for all the people living in fantasyland here if there really was some kind of attempt to end public order on a large scale by the protesters, we could cut to the chase instead of having to wait for months for their movement to fizzle out otherwise, and who wants to be annoyed by a fringe minority acting like some kind of revolution is coming that long?

You can almost hear the thirst for blood in the posts of people like Macabre, it's disgusting to see people talk that way but that is the spirit of Occupy Wall Street, all about empty threats of what's going to happen, and then hilariously dishonest wailing about how the police are brutalizing them. Maybe you should stop making threats before you start whining about how mean the police are to you.

I was being heavily sarcastic. They are Americans fighting to see the people who wrecked the economy be held accountable. You should thank them.


Nah, they're fighting for the political power to oppress the people they think deserve oppressing. They're primitive authoritarians, just like you.


Apparently the Boston Police Department thinks that performing mass arrests and destroying tents, and signs at night means nobody is watching.

http://www.livestream.com/occupyboston

EDIT: Expect this to go viral as the cops are beating veterans.


Yeah and beating peaceful protesters, who are veterans, will just heighten the amount of shit that will hit the fan.


What beatings? What beatings? Where? Didn't see any in your video or any other ones posted. In your mind, maybe?

Apparently the Occupy Boston protesters think they can take over any piece of property they want.

Which sums up the movement pretty well.



"Thanks for fucking up my park!"

Yes. Your park.

A conspicuous lack of beatings as well.



Another conspicuous lack of beatings. I do see a bunch of assholes who think that they can do whatever they want trespassing and refusing to obey lawful orders and generally once again acting like they are superior to everyone else. And then crying like little bitches when the police move in and pull them away. They pull them away, 4 or 5 cops to a wildly struggling, undoubtedly rank as shit "veteran."

I didn't know using a half-dozen men to pull someone out of a crowd without hitting him or using tear gas or anything was a beating.

It's almost enough to make you wonder if people know what "beatings" really are.

Concerning Boston: even though this may sound cynical to the people involved, police brutality and exclusion of the media while committing those crimes is something that will actually help the movement.


Honestly do people like you even watch the videos, or are you comfortable being liars and not even knowing if your lies are any good?
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
radiatoren
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Denmark1907 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 14:07:28
October 11 2011 14:02 GMT
#1255
On October 11 2011 22:24 KiaL.Kiwi wrote:
Happy to see the movement gaining so much momentum. When the thread startet I expected it to die down pretty quickly.

Concerning Boston: even though this may sound cynical to the people involved, police brutality and exclusion of the media while committing those crimes is something that will actually help the movement.
We had a similar case here recently where people were protesting against a huge new train station and the police destroyed the eyes of some poor senior with water cannons and was convicted of using agent provocateurs to get the whole water shooting startet.
Those actions always shed some light on who is the supresser and who are the supressed and evokes emotional sympathy for the protesters, even from people who were sceptical or opposed before the police brutality.

All the best to the protesters.

On a sidenote: Is it somehow possible to report Endymion? The guy has done nothing but offensive, dumb 1-line trolling for the last five pages that would have gotten any regular user banned a long time ago.


As a person in favour of the revolutions in the middle east it is a positive thing to see peaceful protests anywhere, no matter the cause. It means people care!

I think certain persons should think about contributing with links/news or discussion instead of quoting bumper stickers and throwing mud in this thread. I know the media and politicians are very much disagreeing on what is going on and why, but show some respect. Calling anyone "those damn commies, hippies, druggies and freebees" is not a way - let aside a good way - to discuss anything.

Also an apology to xDaunt. I may have overinterpreted your comment.
Repeat before me
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 11 2011 14:06 GMT
#1256
You all are delusional if you think that the protestors' rights are being violated when the police break up the sessions. The rights to free speech and free assembly don't mean that the protestors have the unconditional right to squat on public property en masse for as long as they please. Basically every city has ordinances (which have been held constitutional) that impose reasonable space and time restrictions upon these types of events and protests, and I can't imagine that squatting on Wall Street for 3-4 weeks comes anywhere near compliance.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 14:10:18
October 11 2011 14:07 GMT
#1257
I think certain persons should think about contributing with links/news or discussion instead of quoting bumper stickers and throwing mud in this thread. I know the media and politicians are very much disagreeing on what is going on and why, but show some respect. Calling anyone "those damn commies, hippies, druggies and freebees" is not a way - let aside a good way - to discuss anything.


Calling them what they are is a great way to discuss them.

Also, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, as soon as they stop things like this:







Maybe then nicer terms will be more appropriate for them. Clueless is about the best they deserve at the moment. Wannabe-dictators with a sprinkling of anti-semites would be more accurate.

no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 11 2011 14:08 GMT
#1258
On October 11 2011 23:02 radiatoren wrote:
Also an apology to xDaunt. I may have overinterpreted your comment.


No problem.
Yacobs
Profile Joined March 2010
United States846 Posts
October 11 2011 14:14 GMT
#1259
On October 11 2011 16:08 Velr wrote:
Trading for tradings sake is just bad and unecessary (investing is good!). Why do you think they are working right now at laws/taxes against "automated trading" or whatever exactly it's called?
"Shortterm" trading serves only the traders and has bad effects on all "others"..


Wrong. Do you know what liquidity means? Apparently not.

The laws against program trading have nothing to do with short-term trading. It has to do with preventing micro-crashes. I.e., a phenomenon that reduces liquidity. Sense a common theme here?
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
October 11 2011 14:16 GMT
#1260
Wrong. Do you know what liquidity means? Apparently not.

The laws against program trading have nothing to do with short-term trading. It has to do with preventing micro-crashes. I.e., a phenomenon that reduces liquidity. Sense a common theme here?


They think most "rich" are Scrooge McDuck with all his gold in the vault or some Jew with all his gold in his Jew-cave, apparently.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
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