I think certain persons should think about contributing with links/news or discussion instead of quoting bumper stickers and throwing mud in this thread. I know the media and politicians are very much disagreeing on what is going on and why, but show some respect. Calling anyone "those damn commies, hippies, druggies and freebees" is not a way - let aside a good way - to discuss anything.
Calling them what they are is a great way to discuss them.
Also, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, as soon as they stop things like this:
Maybe then nicer terms will be more appropriate for them. Clueless is about the best they deserve at the moment. Wannabe-dictators with a sprinkling of anti-semites would be more accurate.
Good thing they are not posting in this thread...
Less provocation and confrontation more listening, please!
Concerning Boston: even though this may sound cynical to the people involved, police brutality and exclusion of the media while committing those crimes is something that will actually help the movement.
Honestly do people like you even watch the videos, or are you comfortable being liars and not even knowing if your lies are any good?
I actually just believed in the previous posts that mentioned violence. Maybe I'm a bit sensitized in this regard since the German police is infamous for breaking jaws of innocent women, shooting depressive students and beating up bypassing people on demonstrations, which made me expect that your police (that is generally known to be quite brutal when arresting someone) wouldn't hesitate to hurt demonstrating people either. In this case apology to the bpd.
Being a "protester" for $350-650 a week ain't easy.
Some growing movement. No wonder more people join every day, I'm about to sign up and go to Manhattan and get paid to not bathe and destroy restaurant bathrooms too.
When a board of directors removes a CEO for poor performance, we don't expect the board to have a specific plan for how the next CEO will run things. The board's job is to remove the underperforming CEO and start a search for a new one.
That model reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Some pundits are criticizing the protesters for not having specific demands, but I don't think that's a fair observation. The protesters are simply trying to fire the old CEO, metaphorically speaking. It's not their job to micromanage the next one.
Some politicians have branded Occupy Wall Street as a class war. But I think that misses the point too. If the economy were humming along and creating the right kind of jobs, folks would see wealth as an aspiration and not an enemy.
I see Occupy Wall Street as an effort to get rid of the system that brought us to this place. The anger is not so much about replacing politicians as it is a complaint about the nature of government and the corrupting influence of money. Our collective image of the protests is muddied by the media's fascination with the nut jobs in the crowds, allegations that George Soros is the puppet master, and references to evil bankers and capitalists. We humans like to put faces to evil, but sometimes the evil is simply the result of a mismatch between the system and the times.
As self-appointed Transitional Leader, I support a new Constitutional Convention. Sooner or later the Occupy Wall Street protesters will join Tea Partiers and others in calling for exactly that. Nothing short of a total system reboot will clear the streets. Tweaking the tax code won't get us there. Replacing ineffective politicians with other ineffective politicians won't get us there.
Our current system of government served us well for over two hundred years. It was perfectly designed for simpler times. Now the natural complexity of issues plus the corrupting influence of money have choked out the system. We're firing on one cylinder. It's time for a new system.
In times like these, it's easy to focus on all of the bad news. But I'm not wired that way. When I see a broken system, I see an opportunity to build something new and better than can leap frog the performance of competing governments. (I'm looking at you, China.)
The Internet has come of age at exactly the time we need it to form the platform for a new system of government. A new and properly engineered government could be immune to financial corruption and more efficient at matching economic resources to opportunities. That sort of change would be enough to turbo charge the United States' economy for generations.
In a reengineered system of government, I like the idea of states operating as test sites for social and economic programs. In some ways, that's the opposite of how things are operating now. For example, the federal government is clamping down on California's state-legalized medical marijuana industry. Does that look like a government system that is worth keeping?
If you want the rich to pay more taxes, there are two ways to do it. One way is to use force, but that path leads to ruin or gridlock because the rich have plenty of force of their own. The other way is to change the system to make it worth the extra taxes. I'll gladly pay 5% more in taxes in exchange for a better system of government, under the theory that a better government will create a better economy and give me a return on my investment. And I'll believe that's possible when we have a Constitutional Convention.
Nice map BioNova. The scary thing is that people get cut out after all these mergers, leaving the super bosses with unlimited power. I bet you it was one of these super top executives that needed like 150 million$ next month so he says
HEY THERES ONLY LIKE 3 OTHER BANKS LETS CHARGE ANOTHER 5$ A MONTH JUST TO OWN A DEBIT CARD AT OURS!! <<----BOA
If nothing else changes and we got 30 million debit card holders that's bank. BANK. And somehow they can't train any of their staff at any individual branch.
If the occupy crowd get's a little lost, could someone hand them a map.
That map doesn't seem to include the politicians who merged all those banks together under TARP, I wonder why?
Lol, nice try. If i was to edit the map to include political interference... well let's just say I wouldn't have time to be cheeky with those are not as exposed as myself, nor learn anything from users such as yourself
Being a "protester" for $350-650 a week ain't easy.
Some growing movement. No wonder more people join every day, I'm about to sign up and go to Manhattan and get paid to not bathe and destroy restaurant bathrooms too.
Being a "protester" for $350-650 a week ain't easy.
Some growing movement. No wonder more people join every day, I'm about to sign up and go to Manhattan and get paid to not bathe and destroy restaurant bathrooms too.
Ignorance is bliss.
The only Question that remains: Why aren't more people happy then?
When a board of directors removes a CEO for poor performance, we don't expect the board to have a specific plan for how the next CEO will run things. The board's job is to remove the underperforming CEO and start a search for a new one.
That model reminds me of the Occupy Wall Street protests. Some pundits are criticizing the protesters for not having specific demands, but I don't think that's a fair observation. The protesters are simply trying to fire the old CEO, metaphorically speaking. It's not their job to micromanage the next one.
Some politicians have branded Occupy Wall Street as a class war. But I think that misses the point too. If the economy were humming along and creating the right kind of jobs, folks would see wealth as an aspiration and not an enemy.
I see Occupy Wall Street as an effort to get rid of the system that brought us to this place. The anger is not so much about replacing politicians as it is a complaint about the nature of government and the corrupting influence of money. Our collective image of the protests is muddied by the media's fascination with the nut jobs in the crowds, allegations that George Soros is the puppet master, and references to evil bankers and capitalists. We humans like to put faces to evil, but sometimes the evil is simply the result of a mismatch between the system and the times.
As self-appointed Transitional Leader, I support a new Constitutional Convention. Sooner or later the Occupy Wall Street protesters will join Tea Partiers and others in calling for exactly that. Nothing short of a total system reboot will clear the streets. Tweaking the tax code won't get us there. Replacing ineffective politicians with other ineffective politicians won't get us there.
Our current system of government served us well for over two hundred years. It was perfectly designed for simpler times. Now the natural complexity of issues plus the corrupting influence of money have choked out the system. We're firing on one cylinder. It's time for a new system.
In times like these, it's easy to focus on all of the bad news. But I'm not wired that way. When I see a broken system, I see an opportunity to build something new and better than can leap frog the performance of competing governments. (I'm looking at you, China.)
The Internet has come of age at exactly the time we need it to form the platform for a new system of government. A new and properly engineered government could be immune to financial corruption and more efficient at matching economic resources to opportunities. That sort of change would be enough to turbo charge the United States' economy for generations.
In a reengineered system of government, I like the idea of states operating as test sites for social and economic programs. In some ways, that's the opposite of how things are operating now. For example, the federal government is clamping down on California's state-legalized medical marijuana industry. Does that look like a government system that is worth keeping?
If you want the rich to pay more taxes, there are two ways to do it. One way is to use force, but that path leads to ruin or gridlock because the rich have plenty of force of their own. The other way is to change the system to make it worth the extra taxes. I'll gladly pay 5% more in taxes in exchange for a better system of government, under the theory that a better government will create a better economy and give me a return on my investment. And I'll believe that's possible when we have a Constitutional Convention.
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said protesters in Zuccotti Park would be allowed to stay indefinitely, as long as they obey the city's laws, the Wall Street Journal reported.
"The bottom line is - people want to express themselves. And as long as they obey the laws, we'll allow them to," Mr Bloomberg said. "If they break the laws, then, we're going to do what we're supposed to do: enforce the laws."
Seems he is a lot more pragmatic about it in comparison to earlier:
"The protests that are trying to destroy the jobs of working people in this city aren't productive," Bloomberg said in his weekly radio appearance with John Gambling. Taking a swipe at "some of the labor unions participating," Bloomberg added that "their salaries come from - are paid by - some of the people they're trying to vilify."
That resembled a refrain protesters have frequently aimed at the police: "my taxes pay your salary."
"What they're trying to do is take away the jobs of people working in the city, take away the tax base that we have," Bloomberg said, adding that the protests could impact tourism. "We're not going to have money to pay our municipal employees or anything else."
Asked directly if the city had an end game for the protests or would let them continue indefinitely, Bloomberg, who a week ago suggested that the clock was running, avoided a direct answer today:
"We are trying to deal with this is a way that doesn't make the problem grow and protects everybody's rights... we're trying to let this -- not 'play out,' that isn't quite the right word, but let them express themselves."
sorry, none of the sources are the originals, but it seems legit.
Interestingly:
Elsewhere, more than 300 members of Columbia University's faculty have signed a petition in support of the protests.
"The professors join the Occupy Wall Street movement in condemning the growth of economic, social, and political inequalities," a statement said.
Members of the online activist group Anonymous took down the website of the New York Stock Exchange for one minute on Monday afternoon, reports said. Trading was not affected.
Seems that university-professors are supporting the movement. Anonymous is obviously a part of it. Taking down the New York Stock Exchange, however, for a minute is not gonna do anything but put themself in jail.
I am pretty terrified.. I have no idea what to do. We have no idea what to do when the police are being unconstitutional and violate our rights and personal space. People can't stand on a certain sidewalk without being arrested. We watch our friends get violently taken down and taken away for standing nonviolently to police.
All I can think of in all this is a quote by Rothbard:
"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."
Making Economic Sense (1995)
I realize not everyone at the protests is ignorant. Its a diverse crowd and I have no doubt that some of them are well informed. However from listening to the big ticket speakers they have had and reading the various websites and signs its pretty apparent that most of them cant tell the difference between voluntary trade and corporatism.
And if you people are worried about police violence, then I have to assume you had no part in protests during the Bush era. We got the shit kicked out of us, they used experimental weapons on us. This is nothing.
On October 12 2011 01:13 Equity213 wrote: All I can think of in all this is a quote by Rothbard:
"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."
Making Economic Sense (1995)
I realize not everyone at the protests is ignorant. Its a diverse crowd and I have no doubt that some of them are well informed. However from listening to the big ticket speakers they have had and reading the various websites and signs its pretty apparent that most of them cant tell the difference between voluntary trade and corporatism.
Murray Rothbard? The economist of the Austrian school, which is widely discredited because they reject the use of empirical data to support or falsify their theories? That's ironic . Well I guess the quote is true nonetheless.
On October 12 2011 01:13 Equity213 wrote: All I can think of in all this is a quote by Rothbard:
"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."
Making Economic Sense (1995)
I realize not everyone at the protests is ignorant. Its a diverse crowd and I have no doubt that some of them are well informed. However from listening to the big ticket speakers they have had and reading the various websites and signs its pretty apparent that most of them cant tell the difference between voluntary trade and corporatism.
This notion introduces the thought that everyone at the protest needs top notch economic understanding to comprehend the simple problem of money/influence/government colluding. It's fallacy.
On October 12 2011 01:18 Equity213 wrote: And if you people are worried about police violence, then I have to assume you had no part in protests during the Bush era. We got the shit kicked out of us, they used experimental weapons on us. This is nothing.
No one is worried about violence yet except maybe some small amount of protestors, the rest is sensationalist bs from both sides rather you are reading reddit or thedaily or what have you. But the numbers are growing, and if they reach high enough; the proverbial bubble will burst.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tIzog.jpg)
. Well I guess the quote is true nonetheless.
